You "don't care about stats"? Or you "don't care about stats when it doesn't fit your agenda?"
Maguire is wayyyyy better than Lindelof. Only someone with an agenda against him will say otherwise. Are you Mark Goldbridge in disguise? I'm still trying to figure out why people are blaming him for the first goal. Do they expect him to slide out to try and block the cross and risk an own goal? That goal was on AWB and Williams. And the second goal is on a combo of Williams for allowing the cross, and Lindeloff and AWB for not marking the only player who was standing in between them. To blame Maguire of any of those is nothing less than people having an agenda against him for some odd reason. Bottom line is he was one of the best defenders in the league this season and helped bring our goals against down by 20.
I feel that stats can be used to argue any number of points, because they are so easy to take out of context. I haven't tried to use stats to prove my point or fit my agenda. I don't really think it's necessary to prove VVD is better than Harry Maguire. It's pretty much a given. You won't find many people taking a different view. If Liverpool went mad and offered a straight swap, I promise you no-one in Manchester would say no.
If we paid 25m for a player and our goals against dropped by 20 I bet you would feel differently about whether or not he was world class
I don't quite follow your point.
You are putting too much on his price tag. You don't judge whether or not a player is world class based on their price tag. You base it on the performance on the pitch. Bottom line is with Maguire in our central defense our goals against dropped by 20 goals despite having a keeper who made more mistakes that lead to goals than any other keeper in the league. If Maguire had only cost 25m with these stats, everyone would be talking about how great he is. But because he cost 80m people act as if we should have a clean sheet every game...
Yes and hes ahead of him enough that overall he's ahead. Also a lot less "duels lost" while around the same duels won. So even by your own stats VVD comes out far ahead.
There's no question that Maguire is a level above Lindelof, not a 80M defender so far but definitely the better player of the two.
"My stats have VVD ahead?" In what world are you living in? VVD was better in a few areas, but Maguire was better in many more. Only a fool would deny that. But I get it...you have an agenda against Maguire and silly things like facts don't fit in...
I dont think you know how to read your own stats. Maguire lost almost twice as many duels as VVD and the difference in those won was 1. I get it, you're not worth responding to.
I know how to read them. You just seem to be picking out the one stat that suits your agenda while ignoring all the others. Unlike you, I look at all the data that was provided...
No you dont, you have selectively pulled your own data ignoring the stats that were previously posted. And you're ignoring the fact that Maguire loses almost twice as many duels as VVD
I agree Maguire will do better with a better partner, as will everyone else. But I dont think he's going to be as good as VVD without VVD next to him
If I was "selectively pulling my own data" don't you think I would only post stats that showed Maguire ahead? I posted all the defensive stats and supplied a source. Just because the data doesn't suit your agenda, it doesn't mean it's wrong. And I did not ignore that Maguire lost more duels. In fact, I posted it. If you want to talk about someone ignoring stats, look in the mirror. You are hanging your hat on that one stat while ignoring all the others that I posted. But go on....tell me how you don't have an agenda against Maguire...pfft
You didnt put up any of the other stats that are relevant to a CB
You're kidding right? I didn't put up other stats relevant to a CB? I put up every defensive stat that was available from that site. I don't care how many goals my central defender scores. His job is to defend. Goals are a bonus. I also never said that Maguire was better than VVD. I said that his defensive stats were. If that got you all butt hurt, then perhaps you need to question whether you support United or Liverpool
Of course it matters how many goals they score
No it doesn't
Its absolutely one of the metrics that CBs are judged on. As is their on the ball play. Ramos is a fantastic long passer.No it doesn't
When it comes to "who the best defenders are" only an fool would say "well how many goals does he score?". Scoring is a bonus for a central defender. It's nice to have a guy who is a threat on set pieces, but it's not how you properly rate a defender. It's like saying "so and so is a great striker because he is good defensively". It's also a big part of why so many people are tricked into thinking Ramos is a good defender when he is quite possibly the most over rated defender to ever play the game...
It's one that is way down the list. In the bonus column. Remember when Gooners thought Vermalen was great because he scored a bunch of goals? Goals make a defender look great in a fantasy team, but they are a bonus when judging how good of a defender that player really is...
Ramos the most overrated defender...
I dunno, with how Maguire attacks a ball I often wish we had a CB who could be relied on to score a goal.
Yes. Ramos is quite possibly the most over rated defender to ever play the game. Truly great defenders don't get caught out of position as often as he does or get red cards as much as he does. Some of his defensive blunders would have Phil Jones blushing...Ramos the most overrated defender...
Says the guy that thinks Maguire is a class CB
I wish he would score more goals too. And I think goals will come from him. But it's definitely not how I judge him as a defender. I judge defenders based on how well they do in the defensive half of the field, not the other end of the pitch...
I have had previous discussions with the poster and the goal posts keep changing. Maguire's stats are actually really good this season, comparable to VVD and beyond other CB's. That doesnt mean Maguire is better and you haven't said that either.
I really don't understand the agenda against Maguire. Mark Goldbridge being the worst of the bunch as others just seem to repeat what he says like the muppets they are. They need to quit with the agendas. Has he made mistakes? Yeah, and a couple were actually quite embarrassing. But for the most part, he's been fantastic. Our goals against is down by 20 goals from the previous season. If that isn't enough evidence, then I don't know what is...
Based on???
Goldbridge has a go at the defence everytime we score a goal, it is football, we will concede goals. If we are using the same metric to disect goals conceded, none of our strikers would be good enough, no striker in the world has a conversion rate higher than 30%.
If we get Maguire a decent partner he's going to grow as a player even more. Considering he often has to assist Shaw on the right side he's been fantastic, not saying that because Shaw is a bad player but Rashford isn't as helpful in defence on his side like James or Greenwood.
Shaw is actually quite good. Williams on the other hand? Not so much...
Well said...Ironic, unfortunately amusing and true. In fact they would make a great partnership- shame we missed the boat with him. - critical and while mourinho was buying lindelof and Bailly and dissing Smalling - klopp went and bought the obvious.....
Good one, mate.
Not quite that simple though. For the first half of the season, Mourinho was pretty much actively sabotaging the team with ludicrous choices like playing Herrera at CB.
