Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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Kapil Srivastav

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This whole transfer saga, is so painful on so many levels. It's downright demoralising.
Even if we get Sancho now, this has brought so much negativity and pessimism about what the future holds for the club.

Hopefully we still get the deal done, but without good additions I don't see us qualifying out of group stages in champions league, and or qualifying for champions league next year.
 

sewey89

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Last time Dortmund came out and said he was staying... We made a bid.

Just saying.

I've come this far. I'm not getting off the train until it hits that slammed shut window
 

K_Ash

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It doesn't make any sense because everyone can see that we made a blunder with James. We have a chance to upgrade to real quality then its foolish to think like that. Clubs with no ambition will think like that.
Like a 22-year old player cannot improve. Not all signings should mean "oh next Giggs or Bust". He could be a very serviceable-player ala Fletcher. It is just too early.
 

Judas

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Do you know what's depressing, I think if we'd finished 5th, this deal would have already been done. Year after year we spend more when we miss out on CL, and I think this would have been another example of that.
 

Adisa

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What is so "laughable" about that? it actually makes a lot sense. DJ just signed. Since when do we resell players so quickly?!
It doesn't. It is clear the club made a mistake as all clubs do.
 

romufc

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Do you know what's depressing, I think if we'd finished 5th, this deal would have already been done. Year after year we spend more when we miss out on CL, and I think this would have another example of that.
Agreed. The manager pays the price for finishing higher in the table. Only at United does this happen.
 

croadyman

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Last time Dortmund came out and said he was staying... We made a bid.

Just saying.

I've come this far. I'm not getting off the train until it hits that slammed shut window
Will stay on the train until it hits the buffers on Monday night which looks very likely to happen right now
 

GledTheRed

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Do you know what's depressing, I think if we'd finished 5th, this deal would have already been done. Year after year we spend more when we miss out on CL, and I think this would have another example of that.
You're right, it's disgusting the board has zero ambition outside of finishing top four.
 

K_Ash

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It doesn't. It is clear the club made a mistake as all clubs do.
and of course that is what you were thinking 2 months into last season right? with his hot start and after that @City game
 

Jonnymufc

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I came out about 3 weeks ago saying this isn't happening... I also said I'd be in this thread every 5 mins anyway and I have been.

However, I can only conclude now that I was right. No way is this happening now. I genuinely still hoped we'd sign him but what's even more tragic is that it appears eminently feasible that we'll sign no-one at all..
 

Van Piorsing

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This is slowly going into hopeless territory, Goldbridge better come up with a good excuse for his ITK level of confidence.

Perhaps maybe if we could submit improved offer today, there could be time to make it happen, anyway feels like we're relaxed as ever about it.
 

FrankDrebin

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Think its because Ed and Judge cant be arsed to look and work on a DJ replacement.
 

sewey89

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The fact that we've not briefed that we're not after him still gives me that beam of hope
 

Judas

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This is slowly going into hopeless territory, Goldbridge better come up with a good excuse for his ITK level of confidence.

Perhaps maybe if we could submit improved offer today, there could be time to make it happen, anyway feels like we're relaxed as ever about it.
Even Goldbridge isn't confident anymore, he's been having multiple shit fits on youtube today. He still saying he's 90% confident, but he's clearly not anymore. Basically saying he was told a bid was going in (like a lot of ITK were saying) and the bid just.....hasn't gone in.
 

romufc

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This is slowly going into hopeless territory, Goldbridge better come up with a good excuse for his ITK level of confidence.

Perhaps maybe if we could submit improved offer today, there could be time to make it happen, anyway feels like we're relaxed as ever about it.
It's quite funny these people who will say its Ed Woodward's fault we didnt get him. Well its like none of them knew Ed Woodward is in charge of transfers, so clearly cannot be a done deal if a bid isnt accepted, isnt that like 60% of the deal?

These ITK's who said he is coming, only wanted to say I told you he would come, I have the best sources etc...
 

sammsky1

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Piecing together the timelines, briefings, claims and counter claims I've come to believe this is what has happened:

Initially United approached Dortmund about Sancho and Zorc had the conversation with Woodward that Klaverkamp mentioned. In this conversation Dortmund laid out their conditions and gave United a deadline to respond. United did not get back to Dortmund. Dortmund, wondering what had happened, decided to extend the initial deadline by 10 days. United still do not respond. Effectively taking it as if they'd been ghosted on social media, Dortmund then broke off all contact with United. You can argue whether or not this was the 'grown up' thing to do. However, its the seller's prerogative if you want their asset.

Joining the dots, from the time Dortmund refused to talk any further to United intermediaries became the only channel through which any talks could happen. Similar to what happened with City and Napoli over Koulibaly. The people involved dislike each other so much that they won't talk directly. You can argue that United did not do anything to meet with this level of hostility. However, as Eckner said there are egos involved. We maybe didn't have enough background information on the personalities involved to know that they would respond so negatively?

What to make of the contradictory stories about agents fees and personal terms? Based on the initial reports from the German side, it seems there was belief Sancho would move and an attempt was made to paint him as a money grabbing mercenary. Journalists close to the agent however e.g. Di Marzio's team came out with the opposite narrative: there was no issue with terms and Sancho was more than happy to fit into United's wage structure.

When it became clear that an offer wasn't coming anytime soon the German side quickly settled down. In fact there was a clear reverse ferret: Sancho was now a good kid, grateful to Dortmund, happy to stay another year, not even thinking about going on strike. This is when the Manchester press pack started talking about agents fees. For whatever reason, someone at United decided to try and explain away the lack of progress in making a bid by piggybacking on the initial German reports. I am guessing United's strategy was to wear Dortmund down by showing there was nobody else in the race for Sancho and come in with a late bid as the only option. However, United may have overestimated how badly Dortmund want to sell Sancho this summer.

After that there was a whole lot of nothing. United sources clearly wanted to keep a degree of momentum behind the story so, after a while, the Manchester press pack got the terms agreed story. This was, of course, immediately contradicted by the sources close to the agents who remained adamant that terms have never been an issue. Notably, by this point, there had been a big change in attitude among the German press: The German media had pretty much stopped talking about any potential deal and were moving from amusement/confusion about United's approach to indifference.

Increasingly we started seeing English reporters saying that while Dortmund were privately saying they wouldn't sell they hadn't communicated this to United. IMO this can be almost entirely attributed to the fact that Dortmund are refusing to speak to United directly out of spite. In the meantime the agents and intermediaries kept up with the same message, which has been effectively: put €120m on the table and the deal can happen. This is not very surprising given that at least one of the intermediaries apparently represents the player himself and its clear the player wants to move. The agents will therefore keep the hope of a move alive for as long as possible. We've all seen Raiola playing these games with Pogba, none of us is naïve. Sancho likely isn't that sick and likely can play. However, Dortmund are now pretty much in he's staying mode so they're not going to get the German media to give him both barrels.

Which brings us to where we are now: Intermediaries trying to make the deal happen. Dortmund pretty much saying it won't happen and United's strategy of trying to drive down the price having seemingly failed.

Final thoughts: I imagine if €120m was offered Dortmund would accept, despite insisting they won't sell. Its a lot of money. I do not however expect United to offer this sum. So I can see why Dortmund are behaving as if the deal won't happen.
good summation and probably a whole lot of truth in this.
 

Mickeza

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The fact that we've not briefed that we're not after him still gives me that beam of hope
Don’t think we will brief anything. We’ll pretend we were trying up until the last second but failed then parade the fact we spent 50m on a player who made 8 appearances last year and has regressed massively over the last 3 years as a victory showing our amazing new transfer strategy in all its glory. I’ve been wanting to believe there was a plan but there isn’t - we are genuinely just this shite and until something drastically changes with who runs the footballing side at the club it will be forever thus.
 

sammsky1

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Popcorn.gif

Welcome to reality, those who were in denial. We should have been causing a shitstorm and putting pressure on the club. Instead too many were being strung along again like gullible lemmings.
you don't think fans have been giving grief to Woody and his chums? There are far bigger platforms than Redcafe from which to do this, and plenty on redcafe (and in this thread) have been ruthless in their feedback!
 

harms

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The reported reasoning is even more laughable


The same considerations were nowhere to be seen when we binned the likes of Januzaj and Zaha
I like how our board is supposedly so considerate of sending the wrong message (binning young players, appearing desperate, spending too much during coronavirus), while their public image gets worse with every day of this mess of a window.
 

Offside

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To be honest I agree just flogging James after one year wouldn’t send out the best message to be honest. Loan deal would be better for him. Obviously if we’re desperate for money to fund Sancho then it’s tricky.
 

GenZRed

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I came out about 3 weeks ago saying this isn't happening... I also said I'd be in this thread every 5 mins anyway and I have been.

However, I can only conclude now that I was right. No way is this happening now. I genuinely still hoped we'd sign him but what's even more tragic is that it appears eminently feasible that we'll sign no-one at all..
I've been saying the same for a while too. Obviously those that thought they knew better got salty about it.

It was pretty much obvious for a while that Sancho isn't going Man United in this transfer window. In fact I will be surprised if he joins at all. We are a shambles of a football club.
 

RUCK4444

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ah well that's a pity . Hope people remember how little backing Ole got this summer when it all goes belly up
This will be the real sucker punch for me, if Ole get's sacked after having no backing I think that might be a turning point for me and whether I continue to let myself get emotionally invested in the club any further.

It will confirm everybody's opinion that the owners now only seek a top 4 finish and that the funds dry up the moment that is achieved, but more worryingly the manager is then sacked if top 4 isn't achieved.

That is a recipe for disaster and in fact adds to our chronic overspending across the last 6 or so years, because each manager goes in a different direction and subsequently results in more spending rather than building towards something with consistency under one manager.
 

Adam-Utd

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I came out about 3 weeks ago saying this isn't happening... I also said I'd be in this thread every 5 mins anyway and I have been.

However, I can only conclude now that I was right. No way is this happening now. I genuinely still hoped we'd sign him but what's even more tragic is that it appears eminently feasible that we'll sign no-one at all..
the thing is though nobody can be sure. For all we know tonight we might randomly stump up the offer they want.

It's impossible to predict our board and Woodward in general, but I think it's obvious we don't have enough cash this summer due to Corona. They've tightened the strings.
 

pocco

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you don't think fans have been giving grief to Woody and his chums? There are far bigger platforms than Redcafe from which to do this, and plenty on redcafe (and in this thread) have been ruthless in their feedback!
No, I've seen too many still banging on about Sancho. Even though Sancho wasn't enough anyway. The standards among fans is in the gutter and we're as much to blame. Honestly pisses me off the way we have excused certain things over the last few years.
 

Giggsy13

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Do you know what's depressing, I think if we'd finished 5th, this deal would have already been done. Year after year we spend more when we miss out on CL, and I think this would have been another example of that.
If we finish 5th no chance Sancho would join us. He wants champions league football.
 

saivet

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To be honest I agree just flogging James after one year wouldn’t send out the best message to be honest. Loan deal would be better for him. Obviously if we’re desperate for money to fund Sancho then it’s tricky.
If Leeds are willing to pay £25m (I have my doubts they would) to me it's a no brainer to sell him. There's no point keeping him just to prove a point or to send the wrong message. The reason other clubs are praised for selling well is because they're willing to let go of a player when there is interest. Our problem is we only tend to sell when it's us actively to get rid of a player who has proven not very good over a long period of time.
 

pocco

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This will be the real sucker punch for me, if Ole get's sacked after having no backing I think that might be a turning point for me and whether I continue to let myself get emotionally invested in the club any further.

It will confirm everybody's opinion that the owners now only seek a top 4 finish and that the funds dry up the moment that is achieved, but more worryingly the manager is then sacked if top 4 isn't achieved.

That is a recipe for disaster and in fact adds to our chronic overspending across the last 6 or so years, because each manager goes in a different direction and subsequently results in more spending rather than building towards something with consistency under one manager.
If Ole gets top 4 and plays good football then he's safe. And that's a reasonable expectation now, even if there will still be questions as to how far he can take us.
 

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The merits? The merits are that we lose an average player and gain an absolutely world class one? What the feck does this conversation look like in person?

Ole - "If we sell James can we use that money for Sancho?"
Ed - "I'm not convinced. What does Sancho have that James doesn't?"
 

#07

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To be honest I agree just flogging James after one year wouldn’t send out the best message to be honest. Loan deal would be better for him. Obviously if we’re desperate for money to fund Sancho then it’s tricky.
Why? Especially as the supposed intent is to replace him with another young player.

Its not as if people are going to stop believing United give chances to youth when the reason James lost his place is because a youngster from our academy, Greenwood, is much better than him.

Our squad is full of youngsters and we tend to have one of the youngest starting XIs in the league. Persisting with a kid who seems like he's got stage fright seems like banging our heads against a wall and hoping not to crack our skulls.
 

Offside

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If Leeds are willing to pay £25m (I have my doubts they would) to me it's a no brainer to sell him. There's no point keeping him just to prove a point or to send the wrong message. The reason other clubs are praised for selling well is because they're willing to let go of a player when there is interest. Our problem is we only tend to sell when it's us actively to get rid of a player who has proven not very good over a long period of time.
Well that’s true every player is available at a certain price but there’s no way in a billion years Leeds would pay £25m or anyone else.
 
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