Any manager who wins a title for us, would be allowed to take us down to non-league football. We're a cult not a football club.
"So many managers have been sacked"...
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Dont spend 80mil on him at the first place. And when the score is 6-1 we cannot just point at one thing. The problem is bigger. The problem is there even when you win 3-2 vs Brighton having been outplayed for 90 minutes with them hitting the post 6 times.
It doesn't matter anyway cos I wouldn't trust Woody to appoint me a cleaner
Why would we be any different with managers than we are with under performing players. We are too slow to move them on when they are clearly not good enough.
If we want to be a big club we need to act like one, show that when you perform poorly there will be consequences, unfortunately players and managers know they be able to hang around for 5/6 years at least doing the bare minimum. It really is tragic cause it’s not rocket science to fix it.
If we want to be a big club we need to act like one, show that when you perform poorly there will be consequences, unfortunately players and managers know they be able to hang around for 5/6 years at least doing the bare minimum. It really is tragic cause it’s not rocket science to fix it.
Before he finished third last season.
Was SAF a shit manager becuase we lost by the same margin to City?
The result today is on all of the club as a whole, including the manager, but like Shaw just said, the players on the pitch should demand higher standards from themselves.
All three of those managers that chose to live in the north turned us down. Why is that?
Guardiola went to city for an obvious and unique reason. We couldn't get him to come here because we couldn't offer that, nor could anyone else beside PSG. He would've went to london if not for the fact that city had ridiculous resources which allowed them to build his own team, alongside Txiki.
Klopp went to Liverpool because they were in unique circumstances. A sleeping giant that has been asleep so long, that were able to give him full control. He knew himself he needed those conditions to thrive. When he moves on, they won't get a manager from the cream of the crop, despite Liverpool being in the top bracket of clubs now. That's the way it has always been. Only city have bucked the trend and we can't just pretend we don't know why.
We know from their histories that those unique pulling factors outweighed the obvious downsides of coming up north. It isn't a secret that the European elite don't want to live in northern England. It doesn't remove all chances but you need a special set of circumstances to outweigh it.
feck you on about, that awful run from the psg game till the end of the season saw us finish out of top 4 last year and that shit run basically continued all the way till we signed Bruno.
No other manager would have survived that long with such shit results.
Last year isn't last season.
I see we have conveniently left out clubs like Watford, who continually sack managers yet see no success, or West Ham, or Newcastle, or Blackburn, or Portsmouth, all sacked loads of managers with no real signs of success.
Liverpool could have got rid of Klopp but stuck with him and backed him.
Exactly what the United hierarchy should do with Ole.
Liverpool could have got rid of Klopp but stuck with him and backed him.
Exactly what the United hierarchy should do with Ole.
We have the financial power but we lack the ability to leverage on it beyond whoring the club's name. We remain England's most storied club and if Liverpool could attract Klopp then we damn should be able to but we don't want to use some of the resources at our disposal to get the best man, why did the club send Woodward with his 'adult Disneyland' pitch to try and poach Klopp when a living legend like Fergie is available?
That's BS. Think about it this way he allegedly rejected Real Madrid and United in 2014 because they were too commercial but then joined Liverpool a year later, now I will ask you to google Liverpool FC and their trademarking endeavours, Liverpool are one of the most commercial oriented clubs in the world like United, Bayern or Real Madrid.
Mourinho finished 2nd the season before he was sacked, so whats your point?
Crux of the matter
It's not entirely Ole's fault like it wasn't Jose's and LVG's. There's chronic ineptitude in how United has been run since SAF left the club and even then it was being held by a string.
Stick with a guy who's clearly out of his depth, it's fans like you that the Glazers love when they hired him. Low expectations would be easily met.
No manager would save us from this mess and No elite manager would come to us without a big fat contract, then we struggle again with the quality of our players, sack him, and repeat.
This problem is beyond just a manager, Watford had 4 Managers in just 1 season. Some posters here think they had a higher standard than us, Where are they now?
You all forget Klopp took Dortmund to the bottom of Bundesliga after 13 games with more experience and talented players, but he is still their manager at the end of the season.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Dortmund-BOTTOM-Bundesliga-areas-improve.html
I do think Ole is the worst tonight, but it's also happened to any elite manager, so just deal with it. Nothing that we could do as long as Woodward amd the Glazers still run the club
This problem is beyond just a manager, Watford had 4 Managers in just 1 season. Some posters here think they had a higher standard than us, Where are they now?
You all forget Klopp took Dortmund to the bottom of Bundesliga after 13 games with more experience and talented players, but he is still their manager at the end of the season.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Dortmund-BOTTOM-Bundesliga-areas-improve.html
I do think Ole is the worst tonight, but it's also happened to any elite manager, so just deal with it. Nothing that we could do as long as Woodward amd the Glazers still run the club
Niko Kovac was fired after a humiliating defeat in the hands of his former team. I am not saying we will win the CL. All I am saying is that if we stick with OGS, we create more damage and more problems for the next guy, thus increasing the following reconstrution. It is just too early to give up on our season but we are doing it. We did it with Moyes when we were waiting for the inevitable. We did it with LVG when in the space of one month we had 3 draws and 4 losses, throwing our season away by the end of December 2015. We did it with Jose when it was clear that we would not progress anymore with him after the loss from Sevilla and his comments. We are doing it again. OGD should have gone by the end of 2018-2019 season. A lucky victory vs PSG should not guarantee a massive contract. Do people really expect that we will go through the group stage in CL? It is time for OGS, Woodward and co to step down. They have failed over and over again. We, as fans, should be clear: No more Woodward, No more OGS.
Nothing to do with low expectations.
Stick with a guy who's clearly out of his depth, it's fans like you that the Glazers love when they hired him. Low expectations would be easily met.
Sack the manager but keep the owners yeah? Let's keep buying players who a manager what's then sack the manager months into their tenure?
Let's keep Woodward running the show and blame it on the manager?
It's fans like you who are gunning after the wrong guy.
But carry on, as the more you do it, the more our owners a Woodward get away with it.
Because when we sent Sir Alex to Guardiola and leaned on the storied history of the club, it also failed miserably?
Here's my take: United were lucky to have two exceptionally good Scotsmen in their history, otherwise, things look pretty unimpressive. British managers have been nowhere near the top for decades, Sir Alex aside. And northern teams have been unable to attract top continental managers and players. The subsequent struggle is unsurprising. The club wanted Guardiola, Klopp and Ancelotti too. I'm sure they want Nagelsmann as well.
Liverpool struggled with that too. Shankly and Paisley were exceptional, they tried sticking local, it backfired, they tried second tier European mangers, they mostly failed. Klopp's time at Mainz set him on a unique career path that Liverpool were the perfect team in the perfect moment. When time moves on we'll see how it was a blip. The cream of the British crop wont get you to the top of Europe, and the European elite don't need to drop down to United's level.
The best league manager of all time at a point when football was going global has given a new generation of fans a false sense of United's stature, and having grown up on unparalleled success, they don't know how to deal with it. We can go down the City route, and probably will. Until we're there, we're 2nd tier at best, usually lower. They just have better choices. We can get Pochettino but we can't get Guardiola. It is what it is. A resetting of standards is logical.
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Klopp would never have come here because he can see what a joke we are. Any manager worth their salt will stay well away from this club.
He has to go but what’s the point if Woodward and the rest remain
Klopp made it clear he would never join United because we re a business not a football club
Which of the elite managers are we missing out on?
There's 2 elite managers in the game, and then there's about 6-7 after them who are around the same level. We just need to get one of those other 6-7. There's more talented managers around than top jobs around, with the type of resources and money we've got to offer.
Liverpool are run like as much of a business as we are. That's the club who tried to furlough their non-playing staff a couple of months ago, spent feck all last summer after finishing a point behind in a title race.
They've just got their hands on a great manager to mask that with success on the pitch.
In that case he wouldn't have joined Liverpool.
Before we hired Moyes we should have asked ourselves 'Would any other Top 4 team give this man the job of manager? Woudl nay top European club hire Moyes?
Then the penny should have dropped that Moyes is not right for Manchester United.
I tend to think that we only have Mpyes the job because he is Scottish, but then I think 'Nah, only a really daft football club would do that.'
Oops.
Not getting Poch in while he is avaiable is a mistake. It really is simple as that. Liverpool got rid of Rodgers who was a slip away from winning the league the season before when Klopp became availabe. We need to be ruthless too and set high standards at the club. Look at Juve, Barca - both had poor seasons and were ruthless. Same for Madrid a few seasons ago.
I don't even need to Google these quotes. I know they are from Gary Neville.
If he was CEO of the club he would have fired Ole after Everton 4-0 considering how he runs his businesses.
If he was CEO of the club he would have fired Ole after Everton 4-0 considering how he runs his businesses.
Was talking generally for last season, misread your post thought you were talking about last season.
That said I don’t remember us being as abject as you say, considering we beat every team in the league and finished as high as we possibly could.
But go on, please brainwash me and others into thinking a manager who apparently CANNOT coach finishes third in the toughest league in the world.
He was sacked once the entire team stopped playing for him after he threw most of them under the bus. Let’s not rewrite history.
They tried to trademark everything loosely related to the club. For anyone to actually try to make the point that they aren't a business or commerically oriented is baffling. And Klopp is full of it.
Maybe you re right but that s what he said
Who did we try and recruit in Sir Alex's last year, and why didn't they join? Until you can reconcile that point, your suggestion in the 2nd paragraph is essentially akin to dreaming. It's nice to say and feel but it doesn't make it any more real.
This is what Liverpool achieved by giving their managers "time" before they fluked on Klopp :
Graeme Souness - 3 years
Roy Evans - 4 years
Rafa Benitez - 6 years
Graeme Souness - 3 years
Roy Evans - 4 years
Rafa Benitez - 6 years
I don't agree with this theory at all because the only manager you'd say turned us down after a proper approach is Guardiola and it turns out he was already on his way to Bayern by then. London for all its famed advantages still has one CL to its name whilst the North has nine.
The way I see it is that United failed to attract top managerial talent because they have a clown in charge, nothing more. Do you really believe an out of work Zidane/Ancelotti would turn down £20m a year at United just because London is better to live in when no club down there pays as much?
The problem at United is that Woodward has learned and forgotten nothing about running a football club, particularly navigating the murky waters of the transfer market and this restricts us in what we can do. Of all the four managers that we have hired don't you find it predictable that all were either out of work or employed at Molde in Ole's case? The Glazers probably think it's an unnecessary expense to pay for a manager and hence make half hearted approaches to look just to tick the name off the list.
I'm not quite convinced. Just as you point to unique reasons for these managers choosing northern clubs, I could say that there were unique reasons for turning us down. Klopp, for one, was still at Dortmund at the time, proudly boasting that he had never broken a contract. He didn't want to leave at all at that point. Ancelotti chose Real Madrid in 2013 and I'll readily admit they have more pull but they can only employ one manager at a time.
And I don't see how Klopp has more control at Liverpool than any manager would have at United. There's a better structure, as I admitted before, to make sure they can get him the players he wants while here it's a crapshoot - but it's been widely reported that he wanted Brandt over Salah. He probably doesn't regret how that turned out.
I don't think our only options are mediocre managers. It doesn't have to be a superstar with multiple CL wins: Klopp wasn't that, either.
This thread needs to be pinned. Maybe add the number of trophies those club won during that time as well.
Would you agree that if we're around 10th place end of December Ole should lose his job?
Yes. 10th place would be unacceptable and that won’t be the case.
Three dodgy games after a shitshow preparation preseason doesn’t make me believe we will finish 10th.
You are using a single/unique moment to define our place as a football club. It's wrong.
The year Fergie retired was unique and screwed us because he himself only decided to leave in December of that season. We were quite simply way too late to make a play for one of the 'top' managers who were moving that summer.
Guardiola had already committed to Bayern
Mourinho was a dead man walking at Real and Chelsea had already sounded him out for a return (Rafa was only ever a caretaker)
Ancelotti himself was on the way to Madrid
We ended up with Moyes because those 3 were off the table, and SAF was caught up in the romantic idea his mate was his 2nd coming and deserved a shot at the top.
Moyes should have been sacked 3 months into the job, LVG after 1 season, and we gave too much time for Jose. If we acted proactively on all occasions we wouldn’t be where we are currently. SAF final speech has created so many problems as a lot of fans became too blinded.
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