Yea the absolute over hyping of the failure to get a £108 million player is over the top. VDB, Cavani and Tellis is good business and immediately improves our options off the bench. Add two highly rated prospects at RW and it’s not a bad window considering the circumstances.
ESPN: Man United missed all of Solskjaer's targets including Sancho, Grealish - sources
- Thread starter #07
- Start date
True or not, you can ignore anything United from ESPN as a rule of thumb. They're a bunch of slanderous ABUs.
We were linked to those young players before though. They're not random signings. We were likely signing them anyway.
It feels a bit like that's the case.
He's hasn't picked up the idea that we could be in for these mega-expensive players out of nowhere though.
Most managers wouldn't have players like that as their top targets in the first place because they already know it's beyond the scope of what's realistic for their club. Instead they have realistic targets based on their club's actual capabilities, as that has been made clear to them beforehand. They cut their coat according to the cloth they've been given.
If Solskjaer's list of top targets is so unrealistic that literally none of them can get signed then clearly there's a gap between the perception he has of what the club is capable of doing and the reality of what the club will actually do. Which is the fault of the club as it's their job to ensure the person who draws up the list of transfer targets is operating within the bounds of reality.
It was the same with LVG's list of top targets. A who's who of the best names in football, most of whom were clearly unobtainable. So why was he allowed to think they weren't?
It comes across as a club who like to think they can do things "other clubs can only dream of" and allow their managers to target players on that basis when in reality there are clear financial constraints that render that ambition unrealistic.
You are not reading. I said - blame Ed for not getting a right winger but not for not getting Sancho or Jack.
If he was expecting both of these signings even after the pandemic has started, then Ole is living in some fantasy world.
I don't mind missing out on either given the prices quoted. In fact I would say not spending 120m on a player is the most sensible thing the club has done in a long time. I would love nothing more than finding a successful formula where we rarely have to break the bank in order to improve our team. We have to get there sooner or later because we can't keep spending crazy money on average players.
But it's possible to back the manager even if you don't get any of the players on his wish list. Sancho and Grealish aren't the only players in the world that would have improved us. Where is the alternative thinking from the club? Where is the plan B? Liverpool finished 33 points ahead of us, they managed to find a player that would improve their starting XI. The only signing that I think improves our starting XI is Telles (and I base that solely on his attacking stats which are a bit skewed because of set piece duties) but the jury is still out on whether he actually is an improvement or not.
If Sancho was off the cards, why were we still 'monitoring' him until deadline day? Dortmund were loud and clear on their stance, why didn't we do the same? Loud and clear stance that we weren't going to pursue him, and then swiftly move onto other targets? Why did it take deadline day to do our signings when the window had been open for months, and the season started weeks before? Even then, Telles was the only one of the new arrivals actually present in England at the time of signing. And one of the signings isn't even happening before January but was announced now just to save face.
Why did we only manage to sell one player in the entire window when he have a bloated squad desperately in need of a serious trim? Why were the final documents of that player literally done in the last minute of the Italian window, meaning if it happened a minute later the transfer wouldn't have gone through?
We're missing out on some of the absolute top talents because of incompetence. We had the chance to pick up the hottest CF prospect with our manager having worked with him previously. It's pretty damning when Haaland senior says "we wanted to go to a club where the whole club wants him, not just the manager". He also said the direction of the club in the last 5 or so years was important when they chose Dortmund. That's a brutal and honest assessment of where we are as a club. Here is a player who has openly stated that Ole has had a very big role in his development and he'd gladly work with him again. But when it was decision time they chose the club with the better direction rather than teaming up with a manager he's very fond of. The footballing world isn't blind, everyone can see we're being run by idiots.
We've established ourselves as a massive laughing stock in the market over the years. Woodward and co are running a circus, not a football club. I wonder how many more failed managerial appointments and incompetent transfer windows it will take before people realise what the root of the problem is.
Put it this way, there are so many ABUs out there that even if we got Sancho, we would’ve been slated for paying the full price. Criticizing United gets you clicks and attention.
Our transfer window wasn’t perfect but could end up being brilliant depending on Traore and Pellistri. If they live up to the hype, think about whether those same journalists who blasted those signings would come back and praise the club for signing them.
Our transfer window wasn’t perfect but could end up being brilliant depending on Traore and Pellistri. If they live up to the hype, think about whether those same journalists who blasted those signings would come back and praise the club for signing them.
Makes you wonder what would have happened from 2013-2020 if we had signed Kroos and ThiagoThe sad thing about this one is I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge by this point that SAF gift-wrapped the Thiago transfer for Moyes and all he had to do was green light it when he arrived. If he had kept the backroom staff and signed that lad, he might have seen out a year.
We are definitely capable of signing the likes of Sancho but our failure to sell some players and Dortmund's hard stance made it impossible. We probably expected them to drop their asking price a bit to something more reasonable, like €80m + addons but it didn't happen. €120m guaranteed cash is a bit crazy and it's unfair to bash the club or Galzers for refusing to pay that. We should have moved to other targets a bit faster though I think or ideally choose more gettable ones.
Well that’s not the first time this happened. LvG wanted Mane etc Woodward had his own ideas. Jose wanted a defender and none were attained. I’d like to know who vetos those deals, because at least one of those targets would be gettable but we obviously thought we know better than Ole as well.
I'd have picked Sancho over them all. He's that good. These two youngsters would have to standout talents of their generation to match that. And teams spending big is nothing new. Barcelona, Madrid, PSG, us, Juve, we've all made these marquee signings before.
The problem is that they probably can't.
I agree with all this. It was already crazy money for a 19 year old. Add to that the corona crisis and needing to pay all the money upfront, the deal was never going to happen.
The criticism I have is that we should have moved to other targets quicker considering we knew from about April or May that corona is here to stay and we can't afford to pay crazy money upfront. Club should have spoken to Dortmund and seen what they wanted and made a backup plan. Looks like we didn't and that has cost us.
Very good post. Just to add that LvG didn’t particularly want expensive players. He wanted players who he thought would fit his system best, yet he was vetoed.
everyone know this.
The question is ‘so what’ or ‘now what’?
I was telling a friend that the club used to be the embodiment of Fergie back in the day and that it's now the embodiment of Woodward nowadays. It's getting harder to get fully behind the team as a result.
It can quite easily be the case that you miss out on your top target because, although you initially thought they would be obtainable, that proved not to be the case.
In this case though we're talking about missing out on every single one of our top targets, across multiple positions, at different prices. That speaks to a broader problem.
The reason we had a "clear run" at Sancho this summer is that every other club in Europe realised he was unaffordable at the price Dortmund were going to demand. We were the only club that had to go through the entire summer to come to that exact same conclusion. Clearly no other club expected Dortmund to drop their price to something "reasonable", so why were we the only ones who misread the situation so badly that we kept hoping they would cave?
I'm absolutely fine with us not spending that much on Sancho. I'm just baffled as to why we and we alone maintained the idea that we could actually get him for a "reasonable" price.
You said ole had messed up this transfer. How in the blue hell has he messed it up. I get people love bashing Ole, but to bash him for.our board's incompetence. Same thing happened under Jose. The attitude was everything was Jose's fault and the poor board needs sympathy. Blaming Ole for the lack of transfer is bizarre. If you didn't have funds for Sancho then be clear with the manager and say Look we have to move on to plan B. Only in this club we expect managers to scout, to negotiate, to sell the deadwoods, to decide how much wages one should be on etc.
Most likely, yeah.
Looking at the way we operate we need a new Fergie to get us back on track (or at least a modern day Klopp if I may say without being burned to the ground).In other words, our manager would need to be someone who is both a great coach, but will also manage to successfully expand his influence even beyond that on most footballing decisions. A coach and DoF rolled into one.
When your first choice signings are 100m+, 60-70m for Grealish, and the same again for a defender who has a clause next summer, it'd be pretty insane if it HAD come off!
Bearing in mind we tend to average about 60m net spend a window.
Unless anyone really thought we were going to bring 120m or so in shifting the Rojones gang
Bearing in mind we tend to average about 60m net spend a window.
Unless anyone really thought we were going to bring 120m or so in shifting the Rojones gang
Because we love to overpay for players, pretty sure we had a clear run for Maguire and AWB too because nobody is stupid enough to pay whatever we paid.
Again - read again. Not my fault if you dont get the context. I said, this cultural reset transfer shit is a messed up one and that's down to Ole.
I have repeatedly said blame Ed for not getting a right wing but not for not getting 2 of them. Hey I am no financial genius but I was 100% that we aren't spending money on both Sancho and Jack. If that was the list provided by Ole, then God save us.
Football club fails to land first choice targets shocker.
Like we‘re the only team in the history of football that has ever happened too. The key is having good backup/alternative options, who can be cheaper and work better than the first choice.
Like we‘re the only team in the history of football that has ever happened too. The key is having good backup/alternative options, who can be cheaper and work better than the first choice.
I agree with what you’re saying, I’m not putting all the blame on Oles door.
I just feel like this club has gotten so lazy when it comes to recruitment, we bought two youngsters for the RW which is a good start. But generally speaking we always go for these expensive first team signings like Maguire etc when we could be a bit more shrewd if we did some proper scouting.
Woodward needs to be more transparent, this is why all these managers come in expecting big money signings then get upset when he doesn’t deliver because he’s realised it’s too much money to spending. Ole is naive he saw what Woodward did to Moyes, LVG and Jose so why did he think he would be any different ??
Only a fool would think that we are going to get Sancho and Grealish in the same window. Now if we had sold Pogba then it is a different issue. We should have sold him and then got Grealish.
Could explain why he has appeared reluctant to play Van De Beek if he never wanted him . We have seen how he has frozen players he doesn't rate as part of his plans out of the team before
I think that's Solskjaer just being fairly poor at squad management, we've been linked with van de Beek for a while and we wouldn't have signed a player unless the manager has given his okay .
I dont think we needed grealish because we got DVB. DVB is an amazing piece of business for the price.
I am gutted about the Sancho saga. I just think the owners should have considered the PR victory as well as the onfield atteibutes he would bring. They have a monstrous asset there i dont see why they didnt borrow a few quid to get the deal over the line. Even on a business side, they could add his registration to the intagible assets so not make the 108m loss in one go.
That said, its all over now so i support the team we have. Greenwood will be great at rw but i worry what happens if one or two of MMM arent available.
I hope the signings of the two young lads at rw is the start of us getting the 100m players before they cost that
He draws that list based on what he's told the club can do though! LVG's list of targets was similiarly unrealistic, again because he was allowed to believe the club were capable of obtaining those sort of players.
If the people drawing up the list of transfer targets are given an unrealistic idea of what the club are willing to do then the unrealistic transfer list you're left with is the club's fault, not theirs.
If Solskjaer's targets were as ludicrously unrealistic as you say then it should have taken all of ten minutes on the club's part to explain the reality of the situation to him, so he could come up with an appropriate list.
Good anecdote. Would read again.
You are still not answering how has Ole messed this transfer. Has he messed up by asking for Sancho, well that is weird. You are acting as if we have spent some insane amount this summer. Forget about Sancho we have spent less than Villa, Leeds, Arsenal, Everton. Most of our transfer dealing have come in the final 12 hours. SO it is Ole's fault that we are unable to wrap up deal quickly.
I tell you we had the some attitude with Jose, with Van gaal, and I bet will have same attitude for the next manager. How dare the manager ask for Grealish or Sancho. Ok if not Sancho then get the next best player and get it done with. Why wait for final 12 hours ! It is not the first time that has happened, and won't be the last time.
Exactly this. You don't waste 3 months pretending to chase Sancho when your budget is 40m.
Devils advocate here:
Glazers see AwB and slab head and say feck Ole he can't pick players.
Glazers see AwB and slab head and say feck Ole he can't pick players.
Pretty sure that our message to managers have been the same nonsense our great Woodward once said - "We can do things the other clubs can only dream of.."
Once we have someone who can stop the cycle, it won't stop
Once we have someone who can stop the cycle, it won't stop
Then who picks the player considering we do not have a football DoF. Woodward?? God bless our club
From what Donny said about Ole he would seem to be Ole's target.
It comes across as a club who systematically underestimate how much their top targets will cost and/or systematically overestimate their ability to negotiate the price of their top targets down.
All of which leads to not getting those unrealistic first choices but also often missing the opportunity to secure other more realistic targets instead. And, ironically, the need to ultimately overpay for some players due to the lack of options left, as we most famously did with Fellaini.
In fact the misplaced confidence of thinking Dortmund would cave if they waited long enough reminds me of the confidence in thinking Everton would accept a lowball joint bid for Baines & Fellaini. In both cases it seems a strange misjudgement of the market they're operating in and the capacity of the selling club to reject those offers. Like they think they know something other clubs don't, except they actually don't.
Not literally all the time, no. Of course centre halves cover their full backs but not all the time. Shaw was born out of position, his ass is constantly being covered.
As for Telles, I’ve never pretended to have seen him play more than 10-15 times probably but what I’ve seen is a lot better than Luke Shaw, which admittedly is not a high bar.
You don't think that if your primary targets aren't met, especially as they will all improve immediately the first XI or challenge for a first XI spot, then you would communicate that and the reasons why as soon as possible so you manage expectations internally and externally.
Also, those are the exact type of signings United needed to make to close the gap. VDB instead of Grealish, fine. Telles instead of Regulion, fine. But there was a CB and RF on that list and they were immediate first XI or on the verge of first XI positions for years to come. Cavani isn't really a RF and he's a very short term solution. United signed a teenager as a CB, who immediate goes into the U23 team and is behind Mengi and Tuanzebe who are technically first team players. And Traore and Pellestri are long term projects, not even close to being first XI players or reliable bench players.
To that, these discussions of transfer targets have been going on for months before the actually window. So if you fecking know you're gonna need wage space and some additional transfer fees to work with, then why cannot United sell players for any transfer fee aside from Smalling? Romero, Henderson, DDG, Lingard, Mata, Pereria, TFM, Rojo, Jones, James, Garner? Yeah, it's because Woodward has completely handcuffed the club in that regard.
Each transfer window must work together, must kick on and complement each other in accordance to the the needs of the team and what it takes to get better in the table.
It's this disjointed approach and disruptive behavior by Woodward that again has reared it's unacceptable and ugly fecking head.
Also, those are the exact type of signings United needed to make to close the gap. VDB instead of Grealish, fine. Telles instead of Regulion, fine. But there was a CB and RF on that list and they were immediate first XI or on the verge of first XI positions for years to come. Cavani isn't really a RF and he's a very short term solution. United signed a teenager as a CB, who immediate goes into the U23 team and is behind Mengi and Tuanzebe who are technically first team players. And Traore and Pellestri are long term projects, not even close to being first XI players or reliable bench players.
To that, these discussions of transfer targets have been going on for months before the actually window. So if you fecking know you're gonna need wage space and some additional transfer fees to work with, then why cannot United sell players for any transfer fee aside from Smalling? Romero, Henderson, DDG, Lingard, Mata, Pereria, TFM, Rojo, Jones, James, Garner? Yeah, it's because Woodward has completely handcuffed the club in that regard.
Each transfer window must work together, must kick on and complement each other in accordance to the the needs of the team and what it takes to get better in the table.
It's this disjointed approach and disruptive behavior by Woodward that again has reared it's unacceptable and ugly fecking head.
This.
Why act like this is all true? Did Ole go to them and told them? That seems like a collection of players (popular big names) we were linked with and little else. Sancho was the prime target no doubt but we missed on prime targets a lot before even under SAF. This is normal actually.
EDIT: it is a bait article to take advantage of an unhappy fanbase. Telles, VDB, Cavani all said they talked with Ole and were excited by the plan or project.