Yes, and it is hard for me to fathom why Ole would insist on pursuing Sancho if the club didnt lead him to believe that it was a possibility. Its Judge/ Ed who are leading the negotiations and Ole would rely on their word. By all accounts we thought we had the Sancho deal in the bag and Dortmund would relent during the last stages. Judge and Woodward got played like the fools that they have proven to be time after time.
ESPN: Man United missed all of Solskjaer's targets including Sancho, Grealish - sources
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Absolutely this, our scouting/targets always seem a bit football manager to me.
At least with Pellistri and Diallo they seem to have been creative with the transfers and budget.
I agree with your point but I find it quite funny as both Pellistri and Diallo are both textbook FM wonderkids.
I'm not giving him a pass. I'm just wondering what he's thinking about his man united future considering everything. I'm not totally convinced he was after Maguire, but AWB is great in my book. Just a bit off the mark recently.
Yeah..no, this just reads like trying to pick and choose who gets blame. "Ole can't have had anything to do with it, he must have been deceived". I could also paint my own fanfic as a skeptic to read that Ole got greedy and shot himself in the foot. At worst Ole, Woodward and Judge made the decision to hold out for Sancho and when that was clearly off the table did the rational thing and used the funds for other players at the deadline.
If you care to read the full Athletic article you were citing before you will read that it states exactly what I have posted: United thought that Dortmund’s 10th August deadline was not serious and that they would be able to get Sancho towards the end of the window because they were in touch with ‘intermediaries’. So who is really creating fictional accounts here?
OgS is often praised on here for ridding the squad of characters like Lukaku & Sanchez but when it comes to incomings those same people go quiet - if he gets credit for those then this FIFA list of targets needs criticising.
He rather obviously won’t operate in a silo so his wish list is irrelevant here as would his role in the outgoings be marginal.
The whole club needs an overhaul.
He rather obviously won’t operate in a silo so his wish list is irrelevant here as would his role in the outgoings be marginal.
The whole club needs an overhaul.
How does any of that mean he was misled? It says United thought, doesn't finger anyone in particular. United includes everyone involved. Why read it to exclude any one person
It was amateur hour from everyone involved, should have moved on earlier but I dont think anyone was tricked. The club still needs a Dof to make those decisions earlier in the window
Not sure if VDB was a target to be considered. He had already basically signed with Real twice but both times fell through because Real couldn't come up with the funds. Everything else was done and dusted. I think we lucked out with that transfer.
Well unless you think Ole is the chief negotiator it can only mean Matt Judge and his team. If I am the manager I am relying on my negotiation team to get me the most credible view based on their discussions & information from the market. I don’t know where there is any room for ambiguity. Both LVG and Jose previously have stated that their role was only limited to sharing their lists and then it was up to Judge to get the deals executed.
If you further read the article it says that we didn't even have the personal terms agreed with Sancho by 10th August which clearly means we didn't take Dortmund’s deadline seriously and had no intention to stick by it. Now if you want to argue who in the United hierarchy decided not to take it seriously, by all means go ahead.
We were third best defense in the league last year. Surely we should use that as a judgement of our defense instead of the couple of games this year?
From all the leaks and reports so far, it certainly looks like we misread Dortmund's position and wrongly predicted they would cave in to a lower bid on deadline day. While we are not privy to the signals sent by Dortmund, it does seem from the outside to be pretty hubristic. I mean, Dortmund would need time to buy new players too even if they received the full amount at one shot.
Prices have inflated dramatically, but in relative terms big buys have worked - when they were the right ones. Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand both seemed like ridiculous money at the time - but they went straight into our starting line up and improved us. I don't disagree that we should also be improving players - bringing in more reasonably priced high quality raw material (although you do pay for potential) and coaching the improvement.
You've slipped back into the realm of personal deductions with the bolded and everything else stems from that one deduction I'm not sure of. Of course it's ambiguous/contentious to say Ole is some innocent shmuck deceived by Judge and Woodward into shooting himself. Especially when the same article purportedly says Ole was a part of that decision making. Why does anyone have to be the bad guy and the other the innocent?
At least we can agree we need a DoF better than Judge or Woodward because the naivety shown by everyone involved (yes, ole included) on the Sancho deal isn't ideal. Even if Ole was a part of it a capable DoF would have put their foot down earlier in the window rather than stand at Dortmund's door
Our sky high wage bill is less down to big signings on big wages and more because of our awful handling of players under contract. We let contracts run down and decide to offer inflated terms rather than lose them for nothing, then are unable to shift said players because they're paid far more than their market value.
For example our two most recent big money signings Bruno and Maguire earn c£350k a week combined. That's a lot, but is still less than the combined salaries of Lingard, Jones, Rojo and Mata- four players who will barely feature and are completely surplus to requirements.
Don't think they were played by BD, think they are fools. Was it last summer that we were holding firm because Real wanted Pogba but wouldn't match our valuation? How is it different? Issuing a timeframe (protecting yourself from standing a last minute gap in your squad which you cannot fill adequately) and setting a take it or leave it price seems pretty straight-forward to me.
I was being facetious as getting a DOF is a big deal on here.
Given that neither you nor me were in the room when these discussions took place we would require some level of personal deductions based on what is being leaked out in the press to piece together a plausible chain of events.
What I know for a fact is that 3 managers have come and gone and the 4th manager’s position is precarious to say the least. During the same time the higher up’s have overseen our downfall and have had to bear no real consequences for the collective failure. I think we both know the chances of a DoF being appointed is slim to say the least given we have been hearing about an imminent appointment for the last 3-4 years now.
I don't know who leaked that story but it makes Solskjaer look like a complete idiot, as it was clear that the lack of supporters at matches was going to limit our transfer budget. We never had the money for those type of transfers; which was obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of United's average annual net spend on transfers and the likely impact of the coronavirus.
If he wanted Sancho, then his list should have been just Sancho, with the understanding that he would have to generate a lot of money through selling players that other teams were willing to pay for. If he felt that he needed 3 new players then they would have to be relatively modest fees; not glamour signings like Grealish.
In this instance, I believe Solskjaer is at fault. He should have shut down the Sancho talk long ago; simply gone on the record, saying it's not a deal we can do in the current financial environment.
If he wanted Sancho, then his list should have been just Sancho, with the understanding that he would have to generate a lot of money through selling players that other teams were willing to pay for. If he felt that he needed 3 new players then they would have to be relatively modest fees; not glamour signings like Grealish.
In this instance, I believe Solskjaer is at fault. He should have shut down the Sancho talk long ago; simply gone on the record, saying it's not a deal we can do in the current financial environment.
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He’ll prove to be our best signing this window I think, not that that’s saying much.
Isnt this because we held on for Sancho ( Ole wanted no other alternative) and then realised that it won't happen in current climate?
But that's depressing. Grealish would have been excellent signing
But that's depressing. Grealish would have been excellent signing
He's a good signing and one that I'm happy with. Prefer him to Grealish or Maddison. The rest are question marks for me. Cavani could be done, we don't know how he'll show up. Hopefully in great shape. The others I just haven't seen play so I can't say anything about them.
I dont think Grealish was postponed by Sancho.
Ole is using the 4231 and Grealish fits a creative LAM more than Sancho does who would be more creative on the right in my opinion.
Ole is using the 4231 and Grealish fits a creative LAM more than Sancho does who would be more creative on the right in my opinion.
Okay. You're clearly far better at football watching than me to notice all that. Well done you.
Our bad start means they're all rubbish now. All the clean sheets and lack of goals last season wasn't up to Ole and these defenders. It was just luck.
Nothing new here. But I'm sure the Glazers can buy themselves a few more ranches with the saved money.
I dont give a feck if he did or didn't get his targets. Only thing that matters is results on the pitch and league position. He has enough at his disposal to be in a better position than we are. Not buying any of this blame game bolloxs.
Yeah we only decided to get the wage bill under control once Ole became permanent. Not sure why Henderson got a new contract for that amount though. We had him on a contract until 2022 with the option to extend until 2023.
We extended Greenwood, McTominay and Williams similarly after good performances but nothing to the extent of Man Utd first team wages. Is there no way we could have held on to Henderson this season and see if he overtakes De Gea then give him the big deal?
At the end of the day DOF does not matter in the deals at this stage. He is neither a lawyer nor a negotiator and again it is left to the legal team and the finance guys to sort out a deal.
"all that"
It's literally one thing, a blind man on a running horse can see Shaw is out of position all the time that's why so many teams attack us down his side.
Yeah if Villa would have gone down then pretty confident we would have signed him
Because he's the full back who's usually near the opposition box of the two we play.
You seem to be failing to understand what a full back is for. There's a reason it's supposed to be called a "back four" rather than a "back 3 plus Shaw 40 yards up the pitch".
You could forgive sometimes being out of position if he was actually effective going forward, which he isn't. But the guy is literally out of position like 6/7/8 times a match.
And rightly so. Forget transfers, how about we get a managerial appointment right for once?
I don't think a DOF is a must for a football club. I but believe a football club needs football knowledge above the manager/first team coach level. We have none, and it's been showing for seven years.
This was our best chance, of late, to close the gap on the top two.
Instead, teams below and around us have strengthened their first team, while we added maybe one player that will slot into the first XI. Telles. Maybe.
Ole has been shafted, much the same as Mourinho was in his final year.
The board seems to invest just enough for us to be in the top 4, as challenging for titles is seen bad from a financial standpoint as it costs much more to build a team capable of that. We achieved top 4, miraculously, last season - so why would the board think we need to invest heavily? I get the feeling we'd have spent more money on transfers, had we not made top 4, than if we did - as crazy as that sounds.
Instead, teams below and around us have strengthened their first team, while we added maybe one player that will slot into the first XI. Telles. Maybe.
Ole has been shafted, much the same as Mourinho was in his final year.
The board seems to invest just enough for us to be in the top 4, as challenging for titles is seen bad from a financial standpoint as it costs much more to build a team capable of that. We achieved top 4, miraculously, last season - so why would the board think we need to invest heavily? I get the feeling we'd have spent more money on transfers, had we not made top 4, than if we did - as crazy as that sounds.
I mean Sancho is the only one that is a real failure by the club, with either not just paying the price, or moving on months ago instead of getting caught with our pants down a week from the deadline. Grealish had an absurd price tag, Ake is fine but I don't know about 40m, and Upa was a casualty of us playing chicken for Sancho and thus not willing to blow that budget on him.
Yep the only real failure was not getting the players before the season began otherwise I wouldn't have us buy any of these other overpriced names. Grealish at the quoted price isn't doing Ole any favours. That' would be a continuation of the AWB/Maguire foolishness. If we had a limited amount it was always a choice between depth signings and one marquee first team signing. We shot ourselves in the foot waiting for Dortmund but not at the cost of any of these galactico priced names. Truth is neither choice was going to satisfy fans
If we somehow manage to get top 4 again this season it justifies the board lack of spending.
Depressing stuff this.
Depressing stuff this.
The fact we've not had a RW for so many years is now Ole's fault?
