ESPN: Man United missed all of Solskjaer's targets including Sancho, Grealish - sources

[devilish]

Good post.

People act as if we got some 75/80 points last season. In terms of points were were miles behind Mourinho's 2nd placed finish and more like the crap years of Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. I think it was just about enough and the latter parts of the season gave us all hope but let's not pretend last season was some sort of feat, and that the manager hasn't been backed.

He's now spent around 275 million now so we should accept some progress and excellence from our manager.

My two biggest worries about Ole are

a- He tend to go for the expensive option (Maguire, AWB, Grealish, Sancho, Bruno)
b- there are too many rumours around our training being cack. Lukaku complained about it while Sanchez wanted out after 1 training session. I would usually label that as rumours but the football we play backs it up. Our new player's performance seems to nosedive a few months after we signed them. Maguire, James, AWB and even Bruno had been cack

 

[RoyH1]

I'd take what ESPN writes with a grain of salt. Not sure their sources are always on point.

If I were to take it as gospel, I'd say that maybe it's unrealistic to have all those targets in one window, specially when the pandemic has distorted the market so much. Look at how much other big clubs spent if at all...

 

[DevilsOwn]

It did happen. United spent nearly 200m and it ended trophy less and third (which could have easily been 5th). Our main competitors for third place were Chelsea who faced a transfer ban + the loss of Hazard and great club Leicester who lost Maguire. Despite spending 130m in defence United's defence conceded 36 goals which is significantly better then the season before (when all hell went loose) but was worse then the two years prior. It had now conceded 11 goals despite we having played minions such as Brighton, Palace and Spurs. Guess what? Apart from RB, Ole wanted reinforcements in every single position he spent 150m in ie Grealish (Bruno), Sancho (James) and Upamecano (Maguire). That would have costed us another 200m.

Please tell me how is that good enough?

you raised a question whether Ole's record justifies more investment. Of course, it does. Let me counter the points you raised...

We came 3rd - which was NOT 5th. Chelsea lost Hazard, so? We didnt have Pogba for what 3/4th of the season and other injuries. Leicester lost Maguire, to US. Thats a good deal right, which helps us finish above them?

Spent 130m in defense - to improve the defense substantially. From a defense that was 10th/11th best in the league to 3rd best. From a defense which had only 1 team in the top 10 ship more, to shipping just 3 more than the best in the league. Is that not drastic improvement?
And to compare it with 2017-18 prime- Mourinho year is fallacy. Because, that defense had Jones-Smalling-Bailly playing most games for us that year. Smalling fell out, other two were nearly perma crock. Ole had to literally rebuild from scratch!

Yes, our start to this season is Shambolic. Completely. Only time will tell if, AWB and Maguire can regain the form of last year. If not, then that is a worry. Accepted.

And Ole, wanting reinforcements in the positions he spent on? Really? Grealish wouldn't have been Bruno's replacement. Ole has shown more than enough faith in Bruno - he doesn't need replacement. Upamecano is not a Maguire reinforcement. Last I checked we play 2 CB (if not 3). Its a completely different spot in the starting XI. James is the only one from Ole's signing which needed an upgrade - Sancho (or anyother). And James, was surely not bought as a starting XI player. Was he?

I know, it seems really bleak currently. But, transfers is one aspect (amongst a few others) that Ole has done well in.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

My two biggest worries about Ole are

a- He tend to go for the expensive option (Maguire, AWB, Grealish, Sancho, Bruno)
b- there are too many rumours around our training being cack. Lukaku complained about it while Sanchez wanted out after 1 training session. I would usually label that as rumours but the football we play backs it up. Our new player's performance seems to nosedive a few months after we signed them. Maguire, James, AWB and even Bruno had been cack

My worry is that he simply isn't good enough.

 

[Kaos]

I do wonder whether the club would have have let Ole spend big again in the summer if AWB and Maguire were phenomenal in the previous campaign. Could be a lack of trust again, similar to Mourinho's last window where he was supposedly denied the chance to sign a CB because his two previous defensive signings failed to inspire.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I do wonder whether the club would have have let Ole spend big again in the summer if AWB and Maguire were phenomenal in the previous campaign. Could be a lack of trust again, similar to Mourinho's last window where he was supposedly denied the chance to sign a CB because his two previous defensive signings failed to inspire.

We were looking for a partner for Maguire, not a replacement. Jose was looking to replace two failed CBs in Lindelof and Bailly - so think there is a difference.

Covid has had a far bigger effect.

 

[peridigm]

As far as I remember he called Old Trafford "Disneyland" and not the club.

I think the Disneyland thing came from his approach to Klopp. Rumors came out he told Klopp being at United is like being at Disneyland. I don't recall if that was a quote from Klopp or someone reported it so it could be made up.
The other part about what we can do comes from Woodward's direct quotes on camera stating we can do things in the transfer market only other clubs can dream of.

 

[Kaos]

We were looking for a partner for Maguire, not a replacement. Jose was looking to replace two failed CBs in Lindelof and Bailly - so think there is a difference.

Covid has had a far bigger effect.

Be that as it may, I don't think the partners Ole had pinpointed would have come cheap. The club might have greenlit a £20million defender, but not someone like Upamecano or Ake. Maguire being somewhat of a dud at £80million would have made the club very apprehensive in trusting Ole with a £40million+ defender.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Ole spent 145m the summer before this. He then spent around 50m in January and then 40m prior to this season started. Despite that he got his arse handled by Palace, Brighton and spurs. I am not saying that the board shouldn't do better. However ole should ask himself if he deserves to be trusted with huge sums of money especially after the mess he brought in last summer. He certainly can't expect united to sort each problem we have with 50m-100m a player signing

If you don't trust the manager with something as crucial as transfers, you sack him.

I thought we would have learned about the consequences of going into a season with a manager who is not being backed and who doesn't have the board's faith. The season will go poorly, the manager will blame the lack of transfers in this season and the board will point to lack of return on transfers made the previous season and they'll both be right from their point of view while the club is in shambles and the players are disillusioned. Difference is you can move a manager on, but not the board - so they should know better.

In defence of Ole, you have also failed to mention how we let go of Lukaku, Smalling, Sanchez, Valencia, Herrera, Young and Pereira in these two years - all of whom played for significant minutes when they were here, were correctly deemed not good enough and needed to replaced. That's a huge of amount of wages the board has saved on, especially compared to how the likes of Bruno, VDB or Maguire have not been handed out mega wages. It is not Ole's (or Maguire's) fault that we paid 80m for him, just the way it wasn't Ole's fault that the board let someone like Herrera leave on a free.

I maintain that while I don't think Ole's the man to eventually take us to the next title, he is the best option we have and we will not really do better than top four right now even if we get Poch in tomorrow.

 

[soapythecat]

Sancho, Grealish or the CB would have been so expensive and just one of those would have been our only purchase.
Sancho money would have been way too much under the current climate.
On reflection, I think we’ve had an ok window given the lack of money around.

 

[Idxomer]

Which is all fine and well except for the part that LVG and Mourinho took over after a period of five years of criminal underinvestment. So they had to produce a whole new squad and do it fast. And each had their own ideas.

So, I do not see why it was unreasonable for Mourinho to be backed again in 2018 after showing clear progress in his first two seasons.

I agree the club brought that on themselves when they appointed Mourinho after LVG, they aren't blameless and if they were more relaxed in regard to having a high player turnover, then Mourinho's spell could've possibly ended differently. Players like Rojo, Jones, Pereira, and even Lingard should've been on the market back then when they still had some value and their sales could've helped in getting the manager his targets, so he didn't have to sabotage his own team.

Regardless and within the club structure he agreed to be part of, I don't think there was clear progress at all after what he had spent and the half-season following the Sanchez transfer. I don't know who he wanted in his 3rd season besides Maguire. It wasn't unreasonable to put some question marks on that demand after buying two defenders who didn't impress much. The club also bought him in 2018 a 20m right-back from his former team when Porto had another one who was much better and sold for basically the same price, another great purchase from him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Be that as it may, I don't think the partners Ole had pinpointed would have come cheap. The club might have greenlit a £20million defender, but not someone like Upamecano or Ake. Maguire being somewhat of a dud at £80million would have made the club very apprehensive in trusting Ole with a £40million+ defender.

Potentially. However, it’s clear we did try and spend money this summer, it was more of us trying to get them at a cost we were happy with.

That’s a debate in itself, but I don’t think it’s the same situation as Jose.

 

[devilish]

If you don't trust the manager with something as crucial as transfers, you sack him.

I thought we would have learned about the consequences of going into a season with a manager who is not being backed and who doesn't have the board's faith. The season will go poorly, the manager will blame the lack of transfers in this season and the board will point to lack of return on transfers made the previous season and they'll both be right from their point of view while the club is in shambles and the players are disillusioned. Difference is you can move a manager on, but not the board - so they should know better.

In defence of Ole, you have also failed to mention how we let go of Lukaku, Smalling, Sanchez, Valencia, Herrera, Young and Pereira in these two years - all of whom played for significant minutes when they were here, were correctly deemed not good enough and needed to replaced. That's a huge of amount of wages the board has saved on, especially compared to how the likes of Bruno, VDB or Maguire have not been handed out mega wages. It is not Ole's (or Maguire's) fault that we paid 80m for him, just the way it wasn't Ole's fault that the board let someone like Herrera leave on a free.

I maintain that while I don't think Ole's the man to eventually take us to the next title, he is the best option we have and we will not really do better than top four right now even if we get Poch in tomorrow.

There's a difference between not trusting the manager and go full FM every time the manager asks you to do. United spent 200m last year and yet he seem to have come out with yet another list that could easily top the 200m mark again. That's financially not feasible especially during a covid crisis. Just ask yourself these simple questions. Do we need Sancho not to look silly against Palace and Spurs? Is our 130m investment in defence not enough to avoid conceding 11 goals against minion teams?

Regarding your list of players well Valencia was old and he left for free, Periera went on loan, Young had a half decent season with Inter, Herrera left and neither club nor manager wanted him to leave, Lukaku and Smalling were stellar in the Serie A but according to Ole they weren't good enough for United (ie the same man who gave his go ahead to 80m signing Maguire). Meanwhile not one but two players (Lukaku and Sanchez) highlighted that there's something is wrong about training at United and if rumours are true VDB is already regretting coming to United. Not to forget that there's a tendency that new players start well only to perform poorly after a couple of months here. Which makes you wonder what the feck is happening at Carrington. Is Ole and his pack of very inexperienced mates at the coaching team good enough? Cause sure as hell we can't expect the club to buy 200m rated players year in year out to replace the ones our coaching team had burnt.

 

[devilish]

you raised a question whether Ole's record justifies more investment. Of course, it does. Let me counter the points you raised...

We came 3rd - which was NOT 5th. Chelsea lost Hazard, so? We didnt have Pogba for what 3/4th of the season and other injuries. Leicester lost Maguire, to US. Thats a good deal right, which helps us finish above them?

Spent 130m in defense - to improve the defense substantially. From a defense that was 10th/11th best in the league to 3rd best. From a defense which had only 1 team in the top 10 ship more, to shipping just 3 more than the best in the league. Is that not drastic improvement?
And to compare it with 2017-18 prime- Mourinho year is fallacy. Because, that defense had Jones-Smalling-Bailly playing most games for us that year. Smalling fell out, other two were nearly perma crock. Ole had to literally rebuild from scratch!

Yes, our start to this season is Shambolic. Completely. Only time will tell if, AWB and Maguire can regain the form of last year. If not, then that is a worry. Accepted.

And Ole, wanting reinforcements in the positions he spent on? Really? Grealish wouldn't have been Bruno's replacement. Ole has shown more than enough faith in Bruno - he doesn't need replacement. Upamecano is not a Maguire reinforcement. Last I checked we play 2 CB (if not 3). Its a completely different spot in the starting XI. James is the only one from Ole's signing which needed an upgrade - Sancho (or anyother). And James, was surely not bought as a starting XI player. Was he?

I know, it seems really bleak currently. But, transfers is one aspect (amongst a few others) that Ole has done well in.

Any manager deserve investment. However he can't expect United to keep forking 200m every year. This is not Football manager.

Regarding your comment

a- Pogba was lost because Ole brought him too early against Rochdale. He ran Rashford to the ground as well as he did with most of the squad.
b- We conceded 36 goals last season which is better then the year before (which was a circus act tbf) but it was worse then two seasons prior. That puts that record in a better perspective. This year we've already conceded 11 goals despite facing Brighton, Palace and Spurs. I am sure that this will improve but there's no doubt that we spent 130m on 2 defenders whose nowhere near to WC and whose got glaring weaknesses in their game. I very much doubt that tackles will start producing loads of crosses very soon as much as I doubt that slow poke will one day become fast
c- What Ole wanted was to buy extremely expensive players in positions whom he either already spent huge money upon (CB, MC) or we already had top talent in (Greenwood). I don't recall Sir Alex buying Stam or Rio only for him to come 12 months later to spend huge money on yet another CB who can do the running on their behalf. That's negligence and almost criminal.

I am not a big fan of the board. I actually think that Ole's appointment is yet another symptom of lack of people who understand football at board level. What irks me is the notion that Ole hasn't been financially backed or that he has no blame in all of this. He should look around him and ask why every player we sign seem to do well in the first few months only for their performance to nosedive once he and his coaches start to work with them. I guess that the very inexperienced coaching staff he surrounded himself with might not be good enough.

 

[meninred]

I think this story is from Mark Ogden. For me I think Utd did the right thing.

1- Sancho is very expensive. Lets be honest he is not a world beater yet and what guarantee we have that he is better than rashford or greenwood ?

2- Grealish is also vey expensive and in his position we have bruno and van de beek.

3- For Central defender issue we have to get rid of first jones and rojo. even then we still have tuanzebe and fosu mensah.

4- I think it would have been better to add a solid defensive midfielder if available to protect the back four as matic and mctominay aren't fully reliable.

 

[Imran Mamdani]

genuine question - why did david gill leave when SAF did? - was it Glazers' decision to have their puppet replace gill? all problems started since SAF and Gill left...

 

[Dec9003]

It’s Groundhog Day transfer wise. If they didn’t want to get Ole his targets they should have sacked him and got someone more inline with their ambitions. Same happened with Jose between his second and third season.
If you set targets and don’t get them, the team suffers, nobody can say with a straight face that United couldn’t afford at least one of Grealish or Upamecano. Now Ole, much like Jose, will sulk. The performances will suffer massively and he’ll be replaced, at the same time our rivals are strengthening and challenging for trophies, it’s just rubbish.

 

[iHicksy]

genuine question - why did david gill leave when SAF did? - was it Glazers' decision to have their puppet replace gill? all problems started since SAF and Gill left...

No. Gill had decided to leave before Ferguson made his announcement, it wasn't planned that they both left at the same time at all. Fergie's departure was a shock and Gill has since said he'd already made his mind up to quit that season. He knew it would cause trouble them both leaving at the same time but he didn't want to reverse his decision.

 

[The Man Himself]

ESPN is absolute shit and unsurprisingly, they are trying to make it look worse than it is to go with current sentiment. VDB was always a signing we wanted and it was going to be decided by 2 factors 1) Real Madrid interest in VDB 2) Grealish price which was dependent on whether Villa stay up. CB was unlikely in this window and I frankly don't care about not getting Ake.

Woodward has timed and again fecked up and there is nothing more to say on him but let's not make everything look shit just because idiots in media want to.

 

[Houdini]

I think the Disneyland thing came from his approach to Klopp. Rumors came out he told Klopp being at United is like being at Disneyland. I don't recall if that was a quote from Klopp or someone reported it so it could be made up.
The other part about what we can do comes from Woodward's direct quotes on camera stating we can do things in the transfer market only other clubs can dream of.

I am pretty sure that he was talking about nightmares.

 

[Stacks]

This was our best chance, of late, to close the gap on the top two.

Instead, teams below and around us have strengthened their first team, while we added maybe one player that will slot into the first XI. Telles. Maybe.

Ole has been shafted, much the same as Mourinho was in his final year.

The board seems to invest just enough for us to be in the top 4, as challenging for titles is seen bad from a financial standpoint as it costs much more to build a team capable of that. We achieved top 4, miraculously, last season - so why would the board think we need to invest heavily? I get the feeling we'd have spent more money on transfers, had we not made top 4, than if we did - as crazy as that sounds.

The need for director of football/recruitment specialist is painfully obvious.

There's no problem with giving that list but not expecting every player to be bought.

What is inconceivable is that Woodward/Judge/whoever got none of them them and panic bought in the last few hours.

See the post below. I never thought for one sec we would be signing expensive players during the pandemic phase so all the talk of "closing the gap" seemed slightly delusional.

I don't know who leaked that story but it makes Solskjaer look like a complete idiot, as it was clear that the lack of supporters at matches was going to limit our transfer budget. We never had the money for those type of transfers; which was obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of United's average annual net spend on transfers and the likely impact of the coronavirus.

If he wanted Sancho, then his list should have been just Sancho, with the understanding that he would have to generate a lot of money through selling players that other teams were willing to pay for. If he felt that he needed 3 new players then they would have to be relatively modest fees; not glamour signings like Grealish.

In this instance, I believe Solskjaer is at fault. He should have shut down the Sancho talk long ago; simply gone on the record, saying it's not a deal we can do in the current financial environment.

I personally feel that they should of just moved on to more realistic targets from the get go rather than chase Sancho all summer knowing he was out of their budget.

 

[Mihai]

I think the Disneyland thing came from his approach to Klopp. Rumors came out he told Klopp being at United is like being at Disneyland. I don't recall if that was a quote from Klopp or someone reported it so it could be made up.
The other part about what we can do comes from Woodward's direct quotes on camera stating we can do things in the transfer market only other clubs can dream of.

Not United as in the club, but Old Trafford as in the stadium.

 

[roseguy64]

4 deadline day signings. Shows how bad we were. A team like united should clearly identify targets, approach and sign them well in advance of the deadline to properly integrate them in the team before the start of the season.

The size of the club doesn't matter. Bayern and Juventus were involved on deadline day.

 

[roseguy64]

I would vert much have wanted that. VdB is not a bad signing really, hes a decent player for a decent price, but hes a bad signing for us because its pretty far down our priority list.

I said it all summer. If the Sancho deal fell through pay up for Grealish. Hes talented, a leader, young and most importantly PL proven

Grealish is not a RW. Why would we pay up for Grealish and then play him out of position?

 

[roseguy64]

United were forced to chase down a massive deficit of points to get third thanks to the manager receiving a priority transfer target 6 months too late.
If you think that does not indicate success in terms of who he wanted to sign, then the word has simply lost meaning.....

Rather we need a proper pre season and priority signings in place before a season kicks off to stand any chance of beating teams that had a proper pre season and had played at least 4 competitive matches before facing us..

Its utterly hilarious that people have seen the likes of PSG, Bayern Munich and Manchester City, armed with better squad resources and settled coaching, slump to shock and embarrassing early season defeats due to an utter lack of pre season, yet imagine Manchester United should some how be immune. Especially when armed with a squad with the self same glaring weakness of the previous season without the required match fitness and pre season tactical work to hide it


Furthermore, lets get one thing very clear. The likes of Grealish, Upamecano and Sancho were needed to build on finish third last season. Anyone pedaling the argument that they should not be needed just because we have slumped to two early season unlikely defeats is simply beyond unserious.

Agreed completely.

 

[mitchmouse]

Klopp's first choice wasn't Salah but Julian Brandt. Took the transfer committee a long time to convince him. They didn't get Van Dijk straightaway in the summer of 2017 even though they wanted him. As for Chelsea: remember Mourinho's eggs and omelettes poetry way back then? Remember their 2015 transfer window? No club on earth ever gets all their first choice targets. Even Real Madrid have to wait sometimes, like they had to for Ronaldo.

And, well, if Liverpool's list of targets had been Sancho, Upamecano, and Grealish this summer, they wouldn't have got either. I do not know if Solskjaer actually insisted on getting these players; it's hard to see him forcefully insisting on anything, to be honest. If he did, however, then the club is at fault for not explaining it to him, gently and patiently, that what he wants is fecking ridiculous.

It is, in my opinion, a more realistic scenario that Solskjaer wanted at least one of these three but he and the club quickly realised that Grealish is massively overpriced and Upamecano isn't leaving Leipzig this summer. The club's enormous mistake afterwards was wasting two months on the Sancho pursuit which was never going to happen if we weren't prepared to pay the €120m. They should have realised at the start of September at the latest that Dortmund aren't going to change their minds, and secured other targets who then would have been available for the start of the season.

I'm talking about this window, and assumed you were too

 

[mitchmouse]

Grealish is not a RW. Why would we pay up for Grealish and then play him out of position?

because he offers something different... oh and can pass to guys wearing the same colour shirt as his!

 

[Craig Ward]

Sancho, Grealish or the CB would have been so expensive and just one of those would have been our only purchase.
Sancho money would have been way too much under the current climate.
On reflection, I think we’ve had an ok window given the lack of money around.

An ok window? We had an abysmal window!

We failed to move players on:
Jones/Lingard/Rojo/Romero all stayed
Only Smalling left on a perm deal - Periera and Dalot will return and we'll struggle to offload them next summer (we've just delayed the problem)

We threw all our eggs at Sancho and become a laughing stock of the football world when we tried to undermine Dortmund by bidding on the last day of the window.

We waited the entire window to sign a free agent. The seasons started and it will take him a good 6 weeks to be match sharp. What was the point of delaying?

We are desperate for a CB yet done no movement there whatsoever. Remains our weakest area of the pitch.

We signed Pellistri/Diallo on the last day - possible knee jerk signings as we bummed the Sancho deal up so bad. I have no doubt both we're extensively scouted and they may well turn out to be good deals - but the manner in which we had to do them because of the lack of planning stinks.

Telles/Donny - Both good deals really. Shame we haggled with Telles for so long, highlights we cant operate swiftly.

I guess it all comes down to planning and transfer strategy - this window shows how far behind we are in modern football.

The teams playing poor, the fans are already on Ole's back and the players look demoralised. And now we've had a truly rubbish window to boot. Ole wanted a CB and Sancho and he's got nada.

I hope results pick up and some positivity starts to breed through to the players

 

[Siorac]

I'm talking about this window, and assumed you were too

Well, Liverpool apparently really wanted Werner this year so not everything went their way, either.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

There's a difference between not trusting the manager and go full FM every time the manager asks you to do. United spent 200m last year and yet he seem to have come out with yet another list that could easily top the 200m mark again. That's financially not feasible especially during a covid crisis.

Let's make a distinction between coaching and recruitment for a moment here. I don't think Ole's a brilliant coach per se, but I do think his signings are good. If the board aren't convinced with his coaching, they should have sacked him. If recruitment was limited by a budget - they should have achieved at least one of his targets. You cannot half heartedly give him players he didn't really want because you didn't really believe he is a good coach. He is going to do worse as a coach with second-choice players making it a toxic spiral.

For what it's worth, I think Maguire, AWB, Bruno are all good signings. It's not Ole's fault that Harry Maguire cost 80m; he's not a Tier 1 defender on the level of VVD/Laporte/Lenglet/Varane at for that price point - but he is not as terrible as the last couple of games have indicated, either. It's too early to write off AWB as well; he can be effective going forward if coached better and given more time. Sometimes people forget he's just 22 and is a defensive beast - he pocketed Sterling, Mane, Son, Zaha multiple times last year. Bruno needs no defense, and Dan James was a punt anyways who's struggling with decision making and confidence and needs time to grow. Over the last season, Maguire/AWB/Bruno have all looked like decent upgrades under Ole. That is progress, no matter how much the board spent on them.

This summer, Ole didn't ask for replacements for his previous signings - he asked for complements. He also didn't ask for 200m - we didn't need to get all his first choice signings, even one would have been a massive upgrade. Along with Cavani, if we had signed only Grealish or Upamecano - it would still have been a very good window. He wanted to address glaring squad weaknesses with clearly well-suited, gettable signings. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Just ask yourself these simple questions. Do we need Sancho not to look silly against Palace and Spurs? Is our 130m investment in defence not enough to avoid conceding 11 goals against minion teams?

The first three games of the season are too early to pass judgements. Yes, the players were terrible, and the manager didn't cover himself in glory - but let's see how the rest of the season goes before coming to conclusions. Also, this Spurs with Jose and their transfer window are not a 'minion' team. They will finish above Chelsea, IMO.

Regarding your list of players well Valencia was old and he left for free, Periera went on loan, Young had a half decent season with Inter, Herrera left and neither club nor manager wanted him to leave, Lukaku and Smalling were stellar in the Serie A but according to Ole they weren't good enough for United (ie the same man who gave his go ahead to 80m signing Maguire).

Their quality or effectiveness is not the point. The point is the club let go of a lot of players who were playing a lot of minutes when here and clearly needed to be replaced. The point is that by doing so, we actually reduced our wage bill, thanks to Ole's decisions.

Meanwhile not one but two players (Lukaku and Sanchez) highlighted that there's something is wrong about training at United and if rumours are true VDB is already regretting coming to United. Not to forget that there's a tendency that new players start well only to perform poorly after a couple of months here. Which makes you wonder what the feck is happening at Carrington. Is Ole and his pack of very inexperienced mates at the coaching team good enough? Cause sure as hell we can't expect the club to buy 200m rated players year in year out to replace the ones our coaching team had burnt.

Again, distinction between coaching and recruitment - Ole should do better at coaching Maguire or Bruno or AWB (he has admitted to as much in his pressers), but he wasn't wrong in getting Maguire or Bruno or AWB. We were committing to transition under Ole before moving on to a better manager - while it was seemingly well done on the youth level, but will not work if you dont' back Ole's plan for the transition with players he considers inferior to his primary targets.

My argument is that the board needs to have clarity with what they're getting with Ole. He's getting players in with the right ability and attitude and he gets them to play decent football in bursts. Recruitment is his strong suit - he's building the core of the club with players who fit in and a building a culture that can be sustained. Then the next manager is chosen in a way that he can maximize the peformances out of these lads with minimal changes. Ole's not the best at getting his squad to do better than the sum of their parts, but the board knew that already and cannot keep using it as a defense for their own failings to procure his targets. You either back him or you sack him.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Guys Guys, It's all unfair that we couldn't spend a lot on signings but that's a bigger mess than we think. United is always charged more for a player than any other club just because we don't have a proper structure and the negotiations are not done in a proper way. Secondly, we have not played attractive football in a while now. LvG and Jose played dogshit football and Ole has tried to change that for a year now. He's a great fan of the club and loves United so much so that he's tried to instill positive attacking attitude in the boys. It hasn't worked so much because I don't think Ole has it in him to actually have a tactical plan for teams. Jose is a tedious manager to have because although he has a defensive style of football, his attacking style is free-flowing. It didn't work so much with United because we had ridiculous defenders. He likes his players to be compact in defense and for his forwards and midfielders to recover the ball and then let them express themselves.

Our defense has always been dodgy but LvG and Jose found a way to get some results. They both won us a trophy/trophies. Ole does not have it in him to try various tactics, he just says- go and express yourself without actually telling them how to play against individual teams. I've been watching Man United for more than 2 decades now and we always pressed high and ran towards the player who had the ball, put pressure on him to recover and then played our way. These days, we hardly see players pushing towards the player with the ball, instead we stay narrow and try to stay behind the ball.

I'm not saying Ole out and I will never do that because I think he is learning a lot on the job and he will continue to do so. I love the energy he's bought into the club and that smile he always has on his face is so calming. He defends his players, the owners and the club which makes him feel like a puppet but I think he's being a perfect gentleman and we should be proud of all that he's done during the time he's been here. He will definitely improve this team but I'm so heartbroken because this team is not good enough for the challenges we have upcoming after the international break until Nov10. It is one difficult game after another and this squad will either rise to the challenge and blow us away or crumble into pathetic little pieces. There is no middle ground here. I only hope as a team we learn to keep our shape, press and cover every opponent player and express ourselves in a manner we should.

I mean Brighton had 18 chances on our goal with 5 shots hitting the post, for the love of God this team is better than that. Coach them well and give them proper instructions and rate them accordingly. Put a plan in play and coach them and change things around during the game in terms of man marking or covering a certain player.

I hope we get a DoF, which honestly I don't know how we are surviving without. I hope things change for the better and players who really care for this club come around.

 

[devilish]

Let's make a distinction between coaching and recruitment for a moment here. I don't think Ole's a brilliant coach per se, but I do think his signings are good. If the board aren't convinced with his coaching, they should have sacked him. If recruitment was limited by a budget - they should have achieved at least one of his targets. You cannot half heartedly give him players he didn't really want because you didn't really believe he is a good coach. He is going to do worse as a coach with second-choice players making it a toxic spiral.

For what it's worth, I think Maguire, AWB, Bruno are all good signings. It's not Ole's fault that Harry Maguire cost 80m; he's not a Tier 1 defender on the level of VVD/Laporte/Lenglet/Varane at for that price point - but he is not as terrible as the last couple of games have indicated, either. It's too early to write off AWB as well; he can be effective going forward if coached better and given more time. Sometimes people forget he's just 22 and is a defensive beast - he pocketed Sterling, Mane, Son, Zaha multiple times last year. Bruno needs no defense, and Dan James was a punt anyways who's struggling with decision making and confidence and needs time to grow. Over the last season, Maguire/AWB/Bruno have all looked like decent upgrades under Ole. That is progress, no matter how much the board spent on them.

This summer, Ole didn't ask for replacements for his previous signings - he asked for complements. He also didn't ask for 200m - we didn't need to get all his first choice signings, even one would have been a massive upgrade. Along with Cavani, if we had signed only Grealish or Upamecano - it would still have been a very good window. He wanted to address glaring squad weaknesses with clearly well-suited, gettable signings. I don't see anything wrong with that.




The first three games of the season are too early to pass judgements. Yes, the players were terrible, and the manager didn't cover himself in glory - but let's see how the rest of the season goes before coming to conclusions. Also, this Spurs with Jose and their transfer window are not a 'minion' team. They will finish above Chelsea, IMO.



Their quality or effectiveness is not the point. The point is the club let go of a lot of players who were playing a lot of minutes when here and clearly needed to be replaced. The point is that by doing so, we actually reduced our wage bill, thanks to Ole's decisions.



Again, distinction between coaching and recruitment - Ole should do better at coaching Maguire or Bruno or AWB (he has admitted to as much in his pressers), but he wasn't wrong in getting Maguire or Bruno or AWB. We were committing to transition under Ole before moving on to a better manager - while it was seemingly well done on the youth level, but will not work if you dont' back Ole's plan for the transition with players he considers inferior to his primary targets.

My argument is that the board needs to have clarity with what they're getting with Ole. He's getting players in with the right ability and attitude and he gets them to play decent football in bursts. Recruitment is his strong suit - he's building the core of the club with players who fit in and a building a culture that can be sustained. Then the next manager is chosen in a way that he can maximize the peformances out of these lads with minimal changes. Ole's not the best at getting his squad to do better than the sum of their parts, but the board knew that already and cannot keep using it as a defense for their own failings to procure his targets. You either back him or you sack him.

Jeez I hate this dissection of posts. It makes it impossible to comment

a- You admit that Ole is not a great coach and yet we are expected to give the guy 200m per year to spend.

b-I can't see how you can possibly rate a very average CB with zero pace and no leadership + a RB who can't go forward with the ball as successes. We spent 130m for the pair. They should be WC something that they certainly aren't. And let's be clear here. An 80m rated investment won't be taken lightly. It would be given the thumbs up ONLY if the manager agrees to it. So Maguire is indeed Ole's signing and he knew exactly the price we're going to buy him for

c- You don't buy an 60-80m rated CM unless he's going to play at first team. Which made Grealish signing ridiculous really. Also it kind of silly for a manager to ask for a 60m CB to 'compliment' (actually do the running and the thinking on Maguire's behalf) an 80m CB the manager had just bought. That's because the 80m CB should be the one making the difference and should therefore not need someone to carry erm compliment him.

d- This rollercoaster had been going on throughout last season which in itself is a concern. However the bigger concerns are
- Ole seems to have no concept about the worth of money. He seem to come out with a 200m bill every year which might not be a problem for an oil fuelled club but is a concern for a business like ours
- New signings seem to start well only for their performance to dip few months after Ole and his mates start working on them. The club can't afford to have a manager who keep new players like that
- He seem to lack an eye for talent whose already at the club. Smalling and Lukaku had proven to be great players in the Serie A. Why didn't Ole used them?
- At least 2 former players have complained about our training methods (Lukaku and Sanchez). VDB seem not happy either
- Ole seem to have no concerns regarding running the same XI to the ground. Some might say that he lacks quality in depth and they have a point. However decent managers can make due with the likes of Cleverley, Keown, Di Livio, Padoin and Henderson. Why can't Ole do the same? Is he not good enough? Can he be trusted with so many youths if he can't be bothered giving his first team some rest?

Ole has not won anything yet. He came 3rd after spending 200m and looks set to spend 200m in positions that he already strengthened. He needs to understand United's limits and make due with what he's got. Throughout Sir Alex reign he had just 3 sides that were considered flawless. The double-double side, the treble side and the 2008 side. He made due with a less perfect side and thanks to proper motivation, coaching and tactics. That's unfortunately how things are run with a club that is not fuelled by petro dollars.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

My two biggest worries about Ole are

a- He tend to go for the expensive option (Maguire, AWB, Grealish, Sancho, Bruno)
b- there are too many rumours around our training being cack. Lukaku complained about it while Sanchez wanted out after 1 training session. I would usually label that as rumours but the football we play backs it up. Our new player's performance seems to nosedive a few months after we signed them. Maguire, James, AWB and even Bruno had been cack

Didn't Sanchez join and train first time under Jose?

 

[devilish]

Didn't Sanchez join and train first time under Jose?

You are right. I retract that

 

[Denis' cuff]

I will agree with the VDB signing if Ole actually plays him more. Grealish is playing for his side and contributing so well. Ole is not doing Donny any favours by just sitting him on the bench. The next game will be interesting if he starts with Donny and Telles or still sticks with the ones who are letting him down. If he does, what was the point of making any signings?

maybe he doesn’t play him because he doesn’t want him? He was brought in by Woowoo because he was cheaper.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

maybe he doesn’t play him because he doesn’t want him? He was brought in by Woowoo because he was cheaper.

Think Ole needs all the help he can get or he will be in serious trouble. He is without Martial for three games and they are saying Cavani won't be available for the Newcastle game at least.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Think Ole needs all the help he can get or he will be in serious trouble. He is without Martial for three games and they are saying Cavani won't be available for the Newcastle game at least.

Yeap, meaning we'll probably see one of Rashford or Greenwood as a 9.QQuestion is, who do you put on RW if Greenwood is the 9. In this example I've used Lingard but I don't really care who it is. Could also use Greenwood as RW, Rashford as 9 and James as LW. Or maybe throw that Pellestri kid in at the deep end if he doesn't need to quarantine. Does he?

DDG
AWB-Lindelof-Maguire-Telles
Matic-Pogba
Lingard-Bruno-Rashford
Greenwood

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeap, meaning we'll probably see one of Rashford or Greenwood as a 9.QQuestion is, who do you put on RW if Greenwood is the 9. In this example I've used Lingard but I don't really care who it is. Could also use Greenwood as RW, Rashford as 9 and James as LW. Or maybe throw that Pellestri kid in at the deep end if he doesn't need to quarantine. Does he?

DDG
AWB-Lindelof-Maguire-Telles
Matic-Pogba
Lingard-Bruno-Rashford
Greenwood

That should be pretty close. Won't we all chuckle if he starts with Shaw.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

That should be pretty close. Won't we all chuckle if he starts with Shaw.

Wouldn't be surprised tbh. Easing players in, new environment etc.

 

[roseguy64]

maybe he doesn’t play him because he doesn’t want him? He was brought in by Woowoo because he was cheaper.

All the signings were made because Solskjaer approved of them. It's been reported multiple times that he has a veto on any transfer we make. He himself called up VDB to convince him to sign.