Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Crustanoid]

If Ole goes, Ed buys himself another 2-3 years to destroy the club further, due to the boom bust cycle of the next manager.

Think on that, Ole Outers (who I wouldn’t deny I’m flirting with the thought of joining)

 

[Rolaholic]

Yea it's a brief

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

God help him now

 

[Judas]

If Ole goes, Ed buys himself another 2-3 years to destroy the club further, due to the boom bust cycle of the next manager.

Think on that, Ole Outers (who I wouldn’t deny I’m flirting with the thought of joining)

Ed doesn't need to buy time, he's safe as long as he wants the job. Why don't people get that.

 

[OleBoiii]

But don't you see that there's a problem that you've been watching us under Ole for more than a year and don't know what our style of play is but how to beat us is so obvious to see

Having a clearly defined style is overrated. Fluidity is a good thing. Fergie was fluid. When teams parked the bus against him, he always had a boatload of top class attackers who could score that necessary goal to make it 1-0 rather than 0-0.

It's quite clear what Ole wants. He wants a fairly high defensive line with a CM double-pivot that is comfortable in tight spaces and can help out defensively if needed. He wants to attack. This has also generally been how he sets up against weaker teams. Sometimes, when the midfield is flooded, he'll push the defensive line further back even against weaker teams. It's not ideally how he wants to play, but it's the right decision when his CMs let him down. That is why I wanted a top class DM as much as a RW this summer.

 

[Idxomer]

Yea it's a brief

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

God help him now

They're giving up on another season now.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't think Woodward would go out and buy Maguire, AWB, Bruno, James and DVB all on his own.
The manager will have a say. Yes Woodward may not pay for all the players the manager wants but he is not going to buy all the players the manager doesn't want.
I was watching the post match comments by RVP and Hargreaves with Scholes. They said Cavani was making the runs but no one was passing the ball for those runs. That to me is a coaching issue.
We have two or three players going for the same ball too many times.
Ole needs to show emotions. This is an emotional game.

 

[The Kag]

but I also find it ludicrous to fire someone after 6-7 league games.

Sure, but there are counter examples as well. Niko Kovac "left" Bayern on November 3rd, 2019 after losing 5-1 to Frankfurt. They were in fourth place and were coming off a double winning season. As we all know, they then went on to win the treble. Kovac lasted what, a season and some change before he got the axe? Ruthless.

Muller was also out of favor under Kovac and even considered leaving!

"Emotionally, it was very tense back then. I wasn't necessarily thinking that I would be extending my contract in the spring.


"With the change of coach and different playing style, everything has developed positively.

If I recall, quite a few people on here thought he was washed up or never that great to begin with. He had 21 assists last season which is an all-time record for a Bundesliga campaign (previously held by De Bruyne). Funny what a different manager can bring to the table. Granted, their club is infinitely better run than ours, so there's that.

 

[Judas]

I don't think Woodward would go out and buy Maguire, AWB, Bruno, James and DVB all on his own.
The manager will have a say. Yes Woodward may not pay for all the players the manager wants but he is not going to buy all the players the manager doesn't want.
I was watching the post match comments by RVP and Hargreaves with Scholes. They said Cavani was making the runs but no one was passing the ball for those runs. That to me is a coaching issue.
We have two or three players going for the same ball too many times.
Ole needs to show emotions. This is an emotional game.

Yep, his movement was fantastic, he never stopped making runs, and they were basically ignored the entire time. Just so frustrating to watch.

 

[1988]

While I agree with your views on Ole, Board also should accept their faults. I feel that the board didn't get players Ole wanted (we badly needed a RW, who will help stretch opponents and make passes centrally easier) and even the transfers we made seemed like panic buys.

the board didn’t back him with the signings he wanted. He wanted wingers, he got an unknown 18 year old winger instead a highly rated Sancho or maybe an EPL proven winger like Zaha. Why would he play Bruno or Pogba at left wing? Why would he need to start an underperforming James? That’s because he wasn’t backed.

it is easy to slam the manager. Though I agree with you he doesn’t have the charisma, the problem is not him. It’s everything. The owners, the executive team, coaches and a bunch of underperforming players. Like Keane said, players shouldn’t wait for a manager to motivate them, they should want to win...

It’s not just Ole, it’s everything really

Clearly our summer dealing were somewhat abysmal but that doesn't justify us moving backwards in terms of form and progression.

Our current lot is better than that. Our home form in the league alone is disastrous. That's not because of a lack of incoming transfers.

 

[OleBoiii]

Sure, but there are counter examples as well. Niko Kovac "left" Bayern on November 3rd, 2019 after losing 5-1 to Frankfurt. They were in fourth place and were coming off a double winning season. As we all know, they then went on to win the treble. Kovac lasted what, a season and some change before he got the axe? Ruthless.

Muller was also out of favor under Kovac and even considered leaving!


If I recall, quite a few people on here thought he was washed up or never that great to begin with. He had 21 assists last season which is an all-time record for a Bundesliga campaign (previously held by De Bruyne). Funny what a different manager can bring to the table. Granted, their club is infinitely better run than ours, so there's that.

I don't know the full story, but two things:

1. Was he fired primarily because of the results or is there more to the story?
2. Like you said: not only is Bayern ran infinitely better, but they also have a unique position in Germany. Any season they don't win is considered a big failure.

 

[wolvored]

So provided we win against Everton you'd still be in favor of sacking a manager who is only 3 points behind top 4 and 6 points behind the leaders, with 31 games left to play? Yeah, that sounds reasonable..

9 points behind the leaders as they could win as well.

 

[MrSingh2002]

I'm Ole out But.....

Are we forgetting the Glazers and Woodward didn't back Jose or Ole at the start of their 3rd season?

If they'd have just given Jose the couple of players he wanted or Ole Sancho and a centreback we wouldn't be in this mess.

Who is to say Poch won't have the same 3 year cycle as the rest?

Root cause of the problems is Woodward not backing managers after promising second seasons.

Wanker.

 

[OleBoiii]

9 points behind the leaders as they could win as well.

With a game more played.

 

[croadyman]

Yea it's a brief

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

God help him now

Mind you they said the same about Jose in October 2018 and he went on another two months so like others have said he probably will still have the backing no matter what the result at Everton on Saturday

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Before people go on about no manager succeeding under this board how many good managers have we had to even say this? LVG was past it, Moyes and Ole were out of their depth. Mourinho was the only that you can argue was good and unsurprisingly he's the one that achieved the most. I think it's a big myth that no manager can succeed under this board and just an excuse not to sack an underperforming manager.

A good recruitment, good coaching and a winning mentality is basically all you need to win titles. Look no further than us last season post restart we played well and we had good recruitment in Bruno and what happened? We went on a form good enough to challenge for the league.

One thing most people have praised Ole's tenure for is the good recruitment that we now have. All that is missing now is good coaching and a manager that can instill a winning mentality and even if the board and structure changes, we still wouldn't win anything unless we have a manager with these attributes

 

[MrSingh2002]

Mind you they said the same about Jose in October 2018 and he went on another two months so like others have said he probably will still have the backing no matter what the result at Everton on Saturday

This forum poll went last year to 54% to sack Ole but I believe he survived despite pressure and calls for him to be sacked because he got the benefit of doubt from Woodward.

If this poll goes to 54% out again I think he doesn't survive that public pressure as he's had enough time for the squad to be used better/ play better.

 

[LUC1f3R]

Ole never won me over completely. I always felt he was tactically inept. Sure, the record against big teams were favorable. But it has always been defending good and hit them on the counter. That works fine as long as we don't concede first. On the games we conceded first it wasn't always smooth sailing. And on few of the games against other big clubs, even they didn't attack and seemed were content to play for a draw.

Now, talking about playing against defending teams, it's another story. United doesn't feel like having much strategy. Even during tail end of last season, if we look closely, opponents were able to read our game much efficiently and it's the individual brilliance of players that got us through. Lately it has been just side passes without penetrating opponents box. I don't see much runs from the players. That makes me wonder whether they practice those in training. I need more passion from the coach (Only instant of this that I can think is Ole shouting at Lingard for playing bad). I want him to come to the lines and instruct the players, make tactical decisions when opponents are playing good and implement them rather than wait till HT to change anything.

Even I can guess what our players are gonna do while watching TV :-

• Rashford and Martial will try to do a 1-2 or shoot;
• Pogba will try to find that killer pass but he sits on the ball too much that the opponent has time to position themselves or pick the ball from him. And sometimes he tries to try flashy passes than simple ones.
• AWB will try to attack in the wing, reach the final 1/3rd and then pass back
• greenwood will try to cut back and shoot
• Matic is so slow most of the time that chance for counter goes by (except few instances that I can count in 1 hand)

I wish De Gea was more commanding in his box. Would like him to shout at his defenders when they make mistakes (Henderson does that). Why play Cavani if you are not playing to his strength? If we find it hard to penetrate opponent box, WTH can't we try aerial balls as a last resort??

Telles - I had great expectations on him. I expected him to bombard the box with crosses and Cavani to finish off (martial for all his ability is no poacher in the box). Was looking forward for Utd to play with 3 in the back when Telles plays high up the pitch against defending teams.

I believe its not good to change coaches frequently but Ole had time to implement his vision and he has failed to do that. We need someone with more experience. Would love Allegri/ Poch. Even inexperienced ones like Hasenhuttl/ Nigelsman seems to have more tactical awareness than Ole.

Last but not the least, its time that Board own upto their mistakes. Woodward is great in commercial side of business but we need a DoF asap (maybe try to get Van Der Sar). DoF will help to sort out transfer targets better, rather than spending heavily as per new manager's vision. The latter will result in a lot of dead wood. And Matt Judge should be thrown out of transfer discussion table. He has no clue about getting price right.

Wow. Spilling one's gut sure feels good.

 

[wolvored]

The biggest problem within the club esp the fan base right now is impatience, and this is seriously affecting continuity. The managerial merry-go-round is dragging the club backwards. Each incoming manager wants to buy his own players and this is very costly and wasteful for the club. Fergie's first United trophy was in his fourth season, and his first league title was in his seventh season. After that it was success after success.

Fergie finished 4th 11th 2nd 12th in his first 4 seasons. There wasnt the pressure of getting top 4 then as the money wasnt in the game and only 1st got in European cup. Fergie would have been sacked in the 2nd season if he had started in 2016 instead of 1986. Ole wont get that leeway is what i'm getting at.

 

[wolvored]

I never said we where good enough to compete for the title. What are you on?

This fatigue lasting a long while eh. You should get onto Ole about that. That must be the reason we have been outplayed most games this year.

Agree. Wanderers and City also didnt have a preseason and they seem to have caught up and doing fine. Its all bullshit. There are none so blind as those that wont see.

 

[wolvored]

With a game more played.

Yes but theres no guarantee Utd will win the game in hand.

 

[united for life]

We don't need Sancho to beat Istanbul. Stop with this Ole obsession. He is not a good coach.

let’s not single out 1 game cause others may argue that the win against PSG was a tactical mastermind. Read what I said.

 

[united for life]

Yeah because it worked out so well last time we bought him.

i’d argue he’s at a different level now. But anyways, the point is we needed a winger, we got none (at least no one to make an immediate impact).

 

[Greck]

I'm Ole out But.....

Are we forgetting the Glazers and Woodward didn't back Jose or Ole at the start of their 3rd season?

If they'd have just given Jose the couple of players he wanted or Ole Sancho and a centreback we wouldn't be in this mess.

Who is to say Poch won't have the same 3 year cycle as the rest?

Root cause of the problems is Woodward not backing managers after promising second seasons.

Wanker.

Many of us don't hold much sympathy here because it just sounds like billionaire club problems. Oh the poor manager wasn't allowed to buy a 100m pound player, how can he reasonably be expected to succeed?

 

[Foxbatt]

No Board backs in everything the manager wants. They didn't give SAF everyone he wanted. Moyes didn't get Ronaldo, Bale and Fabregas. There is no point in buying Sancho when we don't have any structure in our game at all.
SAF said Moyes found Manchester United a bigger club than he estimated. Everton was a decent size club. He told Moyes to keep the coaching staff.
Yet we expect someone who has managed Molde in the Norwegian league and Cardiff to be big enough to manage Manchester United? We also hired coaches who have never coached any first team in PL or any top European leagues.
It's mind boggling.

 

[Rolaholic]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Spot on, he was kind of set up to fail after accomplishing what the club asked of him last season. Lampard hasn't shown anything that proves he's a better manager but he was backed unquestionably and is getting a chance to build on last year. Ole hasn't been afforded the same luxury.

It's a shame and he shouldn't be the first one punished for the poor start to the season but unfortunately he's being set up to take the fall as those above him are seemingly indispensable to the Glazers.

Hate how we seem to be drawn into this same cycle every 2-3 years under the club's present management.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Having a clearly defined style is overrated. Fluidity is a good thing. Fergie was fluid. When teams parked the bus against him, he always had a boatload of top class attackers who could score that necessary goal to make it 1-0 rather than 0-0.

It's quite clear what Ole wants. He wants a fairly high defensive line with a CM double-pivot that is comfortable in tight spaces and can help out defensively if needed. He wants to attack. This has also generally been how he sets up against weaker teams. Sometimes, when the midfield is flooded, he'll push the defensive line further back even against weaker teams. It's not ideally how he wants to play, but it's the right decision when his CMs let him down. That is why I wanted a top class DM as much as a RW this summer.

Stop looking at what Fergie did and us trying to replicate it and focus on what's happening now. The highest rated managers in the Pl currently - Pep, Klopp, Bielsa all have a defined style of play and used it to win trophies. Flick won the treble with Bayern last season with a defined style of play so no, a manager having a defined style of play is not overrated.

All you've said in the second paragraph is what Ole wants. It's 100 games, over 200m spent and we should have moved past what Ole wants and onto what he's actually doing. I like his signings but I find some questionable. You say Ole wants a high line so why buy Maguire who is very slow to play a high line? You say Ole wants to attack so why buy a defensive full back? We weren't even linked with a single DM last transfer window, we gave Matic a 3 year contract. Ole's also talked about how he wants us to press high but our pressing is disorganised and inconsistent. He's talked about how he wants us to be the fittest in the league and wants us to run the most but we've not come close to that. I couldn't care less anymore about what he wants, he clearly doesn't know how to implement his ideas and he's had enough time and money to do so

 

[Che Guevara]

Apart from evidence to the contrary - that sacking managers is the road to ruin (see most top clubs), and aside from the non-relevant comparison to SAF, the lack of patience accusation does have slight merit, but I think that only applies if you already know that you have a manager who is capable. We are all waiting on him learning on the job.

If we were to hire a Rose or Nagelsmann, I'd be more than happy to give them plenty of time. They wouldn't play diabolical football three quarters of the time, though they might take a while to get this side to be seriously competitive for the main trophies. But we wouldn't be waiting and wondering whether they are any good.

The club made definite progress under Mourinho but he still got sacked. He definitely wouldn't be sitting 15th on the table right now. Is there a manager good enough to rejuvenate this squad? Probably, but I don't think they will be given enough time or patience to prove themselves.

 

[Greck]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Spot on, he was kind of set up to fail after accomplishing what the club asked of him last season. Lampard hasn't shown anything that proves he's a better manager but he was backed unquestionably and is getting a chance to build on last year. Ole hasn't been afforded the same luxury.

It's a shame and he shouldn't be the first one punished for the poor start to the season but unfortunately he's being set up to take the fall as those above him are seemingly indispensable to the Glazers.

Hate how we seem to be drawn into this same cycle every 2-3 years under the club's present management.

Lampard made 4th position with no spending on a team that lost its best player. He earned his spend as much as Ole has and Ole has been backed because contrary to what people say the spend of previous summers don't go away after every new season. There's nothing spot on about United fans crying about not spending 200m every summer after losing to teams a fraction of our cost

 

[el3mel]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Spot on, he was kind of set up to fail after accomplishing what the club asked of him last season. Lampard hasn't shown anything that proves he's a better manager but he was backed unquestionably and is getting a chance to build on last year. Ole hasn't been afforded the same luxury.

It's a shame and he shouldn't be the first one punished for the poor start to the season but unfortunately he's being set up to take the fall as those above him are seemingly indispensable to the Glazers.

Hate how we seem to be drawn into this same cycle every 2-3 years under the club's present management.

Probably because Lampard asked for easier targets to get, while Ole was asking for ridiculous ones ? Jusy saying..

Werner costed 47m, Havertz costed 62m, Chilwell 50m, Ziyech 40m, Mendy 22m, Silva for free.

Meanwhile we were targeting Sancho (120m) and Grealish (80m).

 

[Pace Abuser]

The excuses being made for Ole are truly bizzare.

 

[Idxomer]

Both Lampard and Ole got their targets in their 1st transfer window, stop making excuses.

 

[OleBoiii]

Meanwhile we were targeting Sancho (120m) and Grealish (80m).

Is it 100% confirmed that we wanted Grealish? I always found that rumor weird when we have Bruno. Paying more than 50 million for a bench option is absurd.

As for Sancho: I'd happily switch every player we signed for Sancho.

 

[Greck]

Probably because Lampard asked for easier targets to get, while Ole was asking for ridiculous ones ? Jusy saying..

Werner costed 47m, Havertz costed 62m, Chilwell 50m, Ziyech 40m, Mendy 22m, Silva for free.

Meanwhile we were targeting Sancho (120m) and Grealish (80m).

As if to continue the foolishly overpriced spending from the previous summer where he got to splurge 85m on Maguire. How about he learn to build a team without targets from Goal.com

 

[Andycoleno9]

Who to believe? Sky or Men? One are sayibg that he is done and Cooper is saying that nothing will change even if we lose against Everton. Is Cooper reliable?

 

[Ludens the Red]

I'm not saying that we lost to Arsenal and Istanbul because of fatigue. But it definitely affected us versus Tottenham and Palace. That plays a big part, particularly when we have so few data points(6 measly PL games)



I don't think I'm positive, but rather pragmatic/realistic. I'm not satisfied with the season so far, but I also find it ludicrous to fire someone after 6-7 league games. Especially when we've done well in the CL and were visibly fatigued for the 3 first PL games. If that counts as "blind positivity" these days, then this is officially the most depressing forum I've seen.

You must not read other forums in that case.
Leicester fans were calling for Rodgers’ head after their collapse last season even though they had half their teams missing for the last three months and still came in their second highest prem finish. City fans were calling for peps head last season and this despite him winning the league twice with ridiculous points totals. I’ve said this before, as a reader of many other clubs forums we have easily the most patient and most manager loyal fanbase out there.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Who to believe? Sky or Men? One are sayibg that he is done and Cooper is saying that nothing will change even if we lose against Everton. Is Cooper reliable?

Cooper is quite reliable. The Athletic also saying the same as Cooper I think that's who I'd believe. It makes sense though since we never act until things get really bad

 

[el3mel]

Is it 100% confirmed that we wanted Grealish? I always found that rumor weird when we have Bruno. Paying more than 50 million for a bench option is absurd.

As for Sancho: I'd happily switch every player we signed for Sancho.

Which club paid close to 100m on a player in this post COVID summer to blame our board for not doing it ? This transfer was simply not possible, and actually splashing the entire budget on one player is more of a travesty. I honestly think people hugely overestimate the impact Sancho would have had ahead of Greenwood.

I find people talking a lot about Chelsea and City spending, but the reality is, both of them don't pay anything more than 60m on one player. They spread their budget over several players each costing 50-60m, no one of them are foolish enough to put their entire budget on one player.

Anyway, Lampard's targets were simply at better price and more attainable than Sancho.

 

[Judas]

Who to believe? Sky or Men? One are sayibg that he is done and Cooper is saying that nothing will change even if we lose against Everton. Is Cooper reliable?

He says what the club want him to say. Generally when the club gives statements out like that, the dreaded vote of confidence, things only tend to go one way at a time like this.

 

[patty123]

The highest rated managers in the Pl currently - Pep, Klopp, Bielsa all have a defined style of play and used it to win trophies.

Bielsa really, as he won the second division, wow so did Sean Dyche. He has won nothing till that since 98 in his home country, so much for his style of playing winning things, as it didnt for the 5 clubs prior to dirty leeds.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

As if to continue the foolishly overpriced spending from the previous summer where he got to splurge 85m on Maguire. How about he learn to build a team without targets from Goal.com