2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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WI_Red

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The biggest con is Republican messaging convincing centre-right Republicans that far right Republicans are closer to their political viewpoint than Centre-Left voters.

That whole central block don’t need a label. They don’t need reducing to a team. They need politicians that speak truth and deliver on it. They need those truths to help their own lived existence.

Centrist Americans represent the largest voting block in the Nation. They hold the fate of the nation but get pulled in directions they don’t want to go, by elements of the party they probably wouldn’t like all that much if they met them in a bar.
It would be amazing if you could snap your fingers and tomorrow everyone woke up to a fair progressive tax, universal healthcare, and forgiveness of student loans. Then ask them after a year if they want those taken away. Trump's base would be some of the biggest beneficiaries of these policies, but socialism.
 

Donut

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:lol: at Giuliani looking for suggestions about possible fraud on twitter because he has absolutely nothing... He's just pretending to please the Donald, I don't think even his mushy brain believes they have an actual case.
 

Maticmaker

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Here's one for the British... last night a BBC reporter in the crowd called out to Biden " have you any comments for the BBC"?
....Joe replied, "I'm Irish"!
 

nimic

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And I'm all out of bubblegum.
I think you missed the point.

I was actually pointing out that comments on formatting within a damn football forum, while ignoring the content... is stupid.

Especially when you’re accidentally aiming them at someone who actually published a book that (very few) people paid money for.

If that’s your bag, you do you. Your time is better spent focussing on content/messaging though.
It was just a joke, settle down. I'm very impressed you published a book, but I'm sure you had a very good editor.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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It would be amazing if you could snap your fingers and tomorrow everyone woke up to a fair progressive tax, universal healthcare, and forgiveness of student loans. Then ask them after a year if they want those taken away. Trump's base would be some of the biggest beneficiaries of these policies, but socialism.
Exactly. I’m in the UK. A large percentage of the voting base is voting to lower their quality of life under the guise of it getting better.

I will never understand it.

The smallest reduction of that would be WASPI women in England voting Tory at the last election, while claiming that Labour would tax them more.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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It was just a joke, settle down. I'm very impressed you published a book, but I'm sure you had a very good editor.
Oh, you’re doing that thing where you realised you were a douche, repackaged it into a joke after the fact, then added another snidey comment on the end.

Just comment on content dude. I have no quarrel with you. If you’re

commenting on structure
That you still

managed to read, it’s a non event.
 

MrMarcello

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If this country split in 2 based on political leanings I do believe my Trump loving brothers and sisters would come in for a shock. I think (so please don't take this as 100% fact) I read that somewhere in the range of 70+% of the USA's GDP comes from blue states. Most red states (maybe not Texas??) are net takers from the federal government (i.e. they receive more in funding then they pay in). This fact always makes me chuckle when I see conservatives rail about socialism and wealth redistribution.
I've used this argument when RWNJs bring up "without California/without New York so-and-so wouldn't win the election. Said state should go away." I retort, "Well, you know California has the 6th* ranked economy in the world? How do you plan to supplement that massive hit to the US economy?" and "New York has the 10th* ranked economy."

And it's nonsense when they claim that without those votes in Cali & NY that a Dem would never win the election. So why do they get to cherry pick? If I took out the South/Midwest from the Carolinas to Kansas the Reps would be slaughtered. Or swap out Ohio and Texas. It draws blank stares. It's like they cannot wrap their head around my rebuttal - I'm equating population.

*Rankings vary per year.
 

WI_Red

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Oh, you’re doing that thing where you realised you were a douche, repackaged it into a joke after the fact, then added another snidey comment on the end.

Just comment on content dude. I have no quarrel with you. If you’re

commenting on structure
That you still

managed to read, it’s a non event.
My eyes, they're bleeding. The pain......
 

The Firestarter

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Kushner's no doubt worried that this whole thing will derail Ivankas plans for 2024.

I can just picture the conversation...

Kusher: Sir, I realise this is painful for you, but maybe now would be a good time to start thinking about Ivanka?

Trump: I don't know Jared, maybe you're right, maybe jerking off would make me feel a bit better. Its certainly worth a shot.
:lol:
 

nimic

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And I'm all out of bubblegum.
Kushner's no doubt worried that this whole thing will derail Ivankas plans for 2024.

I can just picture the conversation...

Kusher: Sir, I realise this is painful for you, but maybe now would be a good time to start thinking about Ivanka?

Trump: I don't know Jared, maybe you're right, maybe jerking off would make me feel a bit better. Its certainly worth a shot.
Have you ever considered writing romantic fiction?
 

WI_Red

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I've used this argument when RWNJs bring up "without California/without New York so-and-so wouldn't win the election. Said state should go away." I retort, "Well, you know California has the 6th* ranked economy in the world? How do you plan to supplement that massive hit to the US economy?" and "New York has the 10th* ranked economy."

And it's nonsense when they claim that without those votes in Cali & NY that a Dem would never win the election. So why do they get to cherry pick? If I took out the South/Midwest from the Carolinas to Kansas the Reps would be slaughtered. Or swap out Ohio and Texas. It draws blank stares. It's like they cannot wrap their head around my rebuttal - I'm equating population.

*Rankings vary per year.
This is a super fun graph to pull out:

https://howmuch.net/articles/federal-budget-receipts-and-expenditures-across-the-united-states
 

calodo2003

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Indeed. Seems to be very much understimated. I get it though - most western countries at least dont grow nearly at the same pace as we do. I just looked it up - in 2009 when Obama was first elected we had about 24 million people less (!!) than now.
Yeah, any increase is partially due to simple math. Toss in voter engagement & enthusiasm, you have sizeable increases. Buy, the subjectivity in the reasons for the increases are also very important.

Those on the right keep asking how can Biden get more votes than Obama, but are trumpeting they fact that Trump got more votes to ham McCain & Romney.
 

calodo2003

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Thought Chappelle was pretty weak.

"Did I trigger you?"

"What is this, a woke meeting?"

Talk about low-hanging punchlines.


Pretty sure he got me too'ed by about a dozen women.
Yep, you’re right. Completely forgot about that.
 

MrMarcello

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The biggest con is Republican messaging convincing centre-right Republicans that far right Republicans are closer to their political viewpoint than Centre-Left voters.

That whole central block don’t need a label. They don’t need reducing to a team. They need politicians that speak truth and deliver on it. They need those truths to help their own lived existence.

Centrist Americans represent the largest voting block in the Nation. They hold the fate of the nation but get pulled in directions they don’t want to go, by elements of the party they probably wouldn’t like all that much if they met them in a bar.
The Tea Party primaried the shit out of any Rep they deemed a RINO and/or not far enough to the right.
 

RedPed

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The saltiness on Fox News has been strong today and absolutely glorious! :D
 

sebsheep

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England is just as fecked up as us really.

Your press though - while obviously flawed to-seems to be much more likely to call a spade a spade. Fair play to that reporter.
They can be, we at least don't have mainstream TV news outlets as crazy as Fox. Some of our newspapers though... :nervous:
Raab is dense as feck. There are house bricks smarter than him.
Oh yeah definitely, it's just such a weird question to fail to answer even for someone like him.
 

calodo2003

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I'm saying that people who vote for Trump are either ignorant and oblivious to the fact he's no good for them, flat out bigoted, or are better off and happy to embrace his bigotry and inflammatory rhetoric as long as his policies benefit them personally. Would you be happy to watch your neighbours' homes burn to the ground if it improves your lot?
Something about this rings so true.
 

calodo2003

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Problem here is, alot of people in the millions vote Republican merely because they just do, they hate DemoRATS etc etc, no matter who the leader is, could be Elmo or Jack the Ripper, they'll still vote no matter what, then factor in the racists and the same people in 2016 that voted for Trump purely because the other devil you know was Hillary Clinton who has a long history of corrupt politics of sorts, Biden is still viewed now as a career politician that had 40 years to do something and all he did (in their eyes) was pass a crime bill that targeted black people and make money off the back of the taxpayer // same thing as being the VP to Obama along with the view that he's a creepy senile old feck however ironic that maybe given the other candidate but Trump will always remain the anomaly amongst the rule.

So had there been a more legitimate candidate that was younger, vigerious, energetic and not too much history of taxpayer dime, that 71millon number of Americans would be severely reduced.
Some, perhaps, but that younger candidate would have probably had a POC as their running mate (or they would be a POC themselves). The overall result in votes would have been closer to this than not.

We saw this play out in 2008. The voting percentages were merely a couple different than 2020.

It’s just too simplistic to blame this on Biden. Doesn’t begin to discuss the reality of the 2020 votes.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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The Tea Party primaried the shit out of any Rep they deemed a RINO and/or not far enough to the right.
There are so many fixed battle lines in America. Religion. Abortion. ‘Socialism/Communism’.

The manipulation and repackaging of people that don’t really give a feck about words and care about policy, into people that merely shout a slogan... it’s corrosive.

Americans become ‘Anti’ everything. They don’t support Capitalism, but they do vote against Communism, despite nobody trying to instill it. They don’t support suppression’s of personal freedom, but they do vote for parties that tell you that you should give birth to a child conceived through rape.

It’s all messaging. I said in pages past; I have travelled around large swathes of America. I have met people I don’t agree with, but most of those same people would give me a bed for the night. Or help me change a tyre. Or lend me $10 for Gas.

There are more Republicans I could enjoy spending time with, than those I would despise.

I am EVERYTHING that tens of millions of Americans would hate. A bleeding heart liberal that wants to end homelessness, end poverty/hunger and elevate the poorest of society to a healthy situation. But most of those people would also break bread with me.

Americans need to ignore this ridiculous divide that sees Red vs Blue.
 

simonhch

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They’re not punchlines you’ve quoted. Those are tags.

I appreciate those that didn’t find it funny. It was light on jokes. But he spoke to matters that need elements of realness.
I think comedy should be edgy. It’s kind of the point, but his opening salvo about “thank god for COVID because it keeps white mass shooters at home” was just in poor taste tbh. It wasn’t even particularly funny or well delivered. I mean there’s a salient social commentary there, but I think with all the people currently dying, and yet to die, of the virus; a “thank god for COVID line” was pretty weak. Could’ve made the same point but in a better way.

I’ve always been a Chapelle fan. Loved the Chapelle show. But his recent stuff hasn’t been great. I watched his Netflix specials, and some of his rantings about trans people weren’t particularly clever or funny. Again, even if he has a point, they weren’t delivered in a particularly humorous way.

I thought his set last night was pretty shit.
 

calodo2003

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There are levels of racism. No one forgets the 1994 crime bill, but Joe Biden isn’t out there applauding ‘very fine people’.
It wasn’t as though the crime bill was passed in a vacuum in 1994, there was key support for it by the AA community throughout many of its cultural factions. There was obviously rancor against it in the same factions, but it’s almost whitewashing to omit the facts on the ground in 1994.
 

Gambit

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I think comedy should be edgy. It’s kind of the point, but his opening salvo about “thank god for COVID because it keeps white mass shooters at home” was just in poor taste tbh. It wasn’t even particularly funny or well delivered. I mean there’s a salient social commentary there, but I think with all the people currently dying, and yet to die, of the virus; a “thank god for COVID line” was pretty weak. Could’ve made the same point but in a better way.

I’ve always been a Chapelle fan. Loved the Chapelle show. But his recent stuff hasn’t been great. I watched his Netflix specials, and some of his rantings about trans people weren’t particularly clever or funny. Again, even if he has a point, they weren’t delivered in a particularly humorous way.

I thought his set last night was pretty shit.
It was hysterical.
 

calodo2003

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Not really. Massively oversimplification.

Hypothetical...

If one party had me believe my tax would go up, my current civil liberties would be infringed upon, my business is at risk of temporary closure, and that unchecked immigration would see the environment I know and loved, changed forever.... I’d probably be able to ignore the racism.

Key line there is ‘Had me believe’. I could absolutely rationalise voting for someone racist if it protected my personal situation.

All of us have these kind of internal battles.

I’ve travelled extensively around America (but nothing like enough). 40-50 year old Republican Conservatives just remind me of my 85 year old grandfather (would have been 94 now). Heck, my father had some terrible views just 20 years ago.

Reducing America’s problems to sentence on a sandwich board... is evidence of the cause of those problems.
But when does voting this way with no apparent altruism & voting along with the negative aspects of society become bad enough people stop using this ‘reductive’ argument & start holding those who vote this way to account? It’s not as though placating & coddling those who help to enable racism will eradicate it. We’ve seen election results, one recent result in our favor isn’t going to change that.

It’s not going to be easy breaking that spot-on cycle you described.
 

simonhch

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After you take away the incumbency bias, these reasons will need to be studied.
I think there is a gender and education bias which cuts across ethnicities. When you look at Latino and Black voters who went for Trump, they are overwhelmingly non-college educated men. Having spoken to several (and granted this last part is very anecdotal), aside from being quite thick, there is a macho element to their voting motivation. “Tell it like it is”, “says what he wants”, “keeps it real”. He’s reflective of a lot of values still prevalent in less evolved segments of our society, regardless of race, where men want to keep women “in their place”, see homosexuals as “f****ts”, not have to watch their treatment of other people, and just generally be intolerant.

There are so many unevolved, uneducated men who are struggling to adapt to the changing attitudes and opportunities of modern society. They are being pushed back by empowered women, and being eclipsed by their achievement. They are getting left behind by an evolution of the industrial sector, which is moving away from manufacturing. And all that makes for a lot of angry men, who are yearning for a return to a time when they can “grab women by the pussy”, “call a spade a spade”, and not have to compete on an even playing field (yet it’s still far from that).

They are threatened and insecure, and that cuts across race.
 

calodo2003

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That is a solid fact. The crazy thing is a big injection of democratic socialism and immigration would help these states improve dramatically. They would have a lot to offer this nation as a whole if they didn't wallow in fear and misery. Texas and Georgia should be the beacon going forward. A diverse population next to people who don't have to worry about ridiculous employer funded health care would help a lot. This country is a fecking joke and the stupidity from the masses totally covers over the decent parts.
It would be seismic positively how much both things you mentioned would help many out there, especially those who look at both as anathema.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I think comedy should be edgy. It’s kind of the point, but his opening salvo about “thank god for COVID because it keeps white mass shooters at home” was just in poor taste tbh. It wasn’t even particularly funny or well delivered. I mean there’s a salient social commentary there, but I think with all the people currently dying, and yet to die, of the virus; a “thank god for COVID line” was pretty weak. Could’ve made the same point but in a better way.

I’ve always been a Chapelle fan. Loved the Chapelle show. But his recent stuff hasn’t been great. I watched his Netflix specials, and some of his rantings about trans people weren’t particularly clever or funny. Again, even if he has a point, they weren’t delivered in a particularly humorous way.

I thought his set last night was pretty shit.
Fair go. Not going to TELL you that it was funny. You laugh at whatever hits your funny bone.

But it does seem like you missed the overarching premise that was...

All of the things that Black people were subjugated for, are now experienced by poor white people.

The crack cocaine epidemic was packaged as a black problem.

The opiate addiction epidemic is packaged as an American problem.

ALL PROBLEMS inside a countries borders are that countries problems.

Black communities are chasing equity and equality. Poor White people are being brainwashed into believing that that drive is anti them. It’s not.

Far Right Republican politics only survives if they can create divides between oppressed classes of people.

All of the old redundant excuses for racism are falling. Only Old people and a minority of red-state young people are still on that sinking ship.

America elevates the rich to the detriment of the working class. If the white working class realises that the black working class are their mirror image albeit with more melanin, they’ll run the country inside a decade.

Chapelle has the ability to be funny at any level of comedy. I laugh at some of the dumbest shit. But I respect the scalpel sharp social commentary more. While laughing.
 

calodo2003

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I think there is a gender and education bias which cuts across ethnicities. When you look at Latino and Black voters who went for Trump, they are overwhelmingly non-college educated men. Having spoken to several (and granted this last part is very anecdotal), aside from being quite thick, there is a macho element to their voting motivation. “Tell it like it is”, “says what he wants”, “keeps it real”. He’s reflective of a lot of values still prevalent in less evolved segments of our society, regardless of race, where men want to keep women “in their place”, see homosexuals as “f****ts”, not have to watch their treatment of other people, and just generally be intolerant.

There are so many unevolved, uneducated men who are struggling to adapt to the changing attitudes and opportunities of modern society. They are being pushed back by empowered women, and being eclipsed by their achievement. They are getting left behind by an evolution of the industrial sector, which is moving away from manufacturing. And all that makes for a lot of angry men, who are yearning for a return to a time when they can “grab women by the pussy”, “call a spade a spade”, and not have to compete on an even playing field (yet it’s still far from that).

They are threatened and insecure, and that cuts across race.
Yep. I spoke about this a few days back. There’s obviously an education divide, a religious divide, a culture divide. It will probably have to be distilled down to specific countries of origin within the Latino population in this country.

All of this drilling down will undoubtedly cause more rancor, division, & retrenchment when discussed, especially on the right side of the political spectrum as they will rail against being stereotyped & cast in a more negative light.

But, ultimately, why they voted as they did needs to be determined & bridging needs to occur. Difficult to start that process if granularity in their voting process isn’t shown light.
 
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