Get behind the manager and club

[romufc]

What the feck are you on about? I just said it's too early to sack him so why are you talking like that to me?

There is no point in keeping him for a full season if by Jan/Feb it looks like we won't get top four under him, that's stupid. We waited til it was out of reach with LvG and Moyes for some daft reason even though it was clear we hadn't a hope, I really hope we don't do it again.

The board is the bigger problem. They are so reactionary, its a joke. Surely someone of footballing intelligence should be employed to run things.

If we had a competent person in charge they would have enough experience and knowledge so when they go watch training, they would be able to tell how well Ole is coaching, how well he is adapting and what his visions are.

Then they would also be able to judge team performances and deliver targets if he feels the manager is right.

They wouldn't wait until we are 15th after 20 games to pull the plug, it would / should be done alot earlier.

If ole shows signs in training and in games he could be the man then 10/15 games would be given, if not he should have been sacked before the season started.

We are in a position now where every game is about Ole. He has literally gone into a shell which has made him defensive.

 

[TsuWave]

“get behind the manager” will be the death of this club

 

[Godfather]

Ole finished 3rd. This season isn't finished. It's barely got going in truth. If he fails to make top 4 then you have a point. Sacking a manager because we've won 4 from first 8 is just mind bogglingly mental.

That’s not the sole reason he deserves the sack though. Again context matters. With the player material he has top 4 is the bare minimum but only if there is room for development and progress. The only way to measure that is by looking at the football displayed. If you see a team playing attractive football and you get the feeling it’s only a matter of time until the team clicks (as was the case with Klopp) then go ahead give the manager time and money. But in our case there is almost zero progress. Our Football lacks ideas and is as dull as it was since our honeymoon period under Ole was over (or: since he was given the full time job). In that scenario:No a third place in a god awful league last season (apart from City and Pool) is not enough. Combine that with another shit season start and you have to start asking serious questions about Ole.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We've seen this before with LVG and Mourinho. Be a true supporter and get behind mediocrity.

 

[BlueHaze]

On the flipside of that I find it quite tedious and embarrassing constantly having to read posters claiming that fans standards have dropped. It should be taken as read that everybody wants United to win titles again, but there are differing opinions about the best way to get there and how difficult that may or may not be.

So you don't think it's worrying when you see so many fans talking about like everything at the club is rosey and everything will be fine again completely avoiding the reality? Many have just accepted how shit we are being run as a club and don't voice their opinions enough that's just the truth man. And my point with the post you replied to is that people like them are just as true supporters as anyone else.

 

[VP89]

We've seen this before with LVG and Mourinho. Be a true supporter and get behind mediocrity.

Not with Moyes?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Like you do? As i know, players and owners are club too, not just manager

If I knew how to GIF I’d insert something clapping here.

OP shown for downright hypocrisy. This forum is full of people telling you to back the club till it comes to the members of it they don’t like.

Anyone preaching blind faith simply for the sake of it making them feel like more of a fan than another is a cretin.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

That’s not the sole reason he deserves the sack though. Again context matters. With the player material he has top 4 is the bare minimum but only if there is room for development and progress. The only way to measure that is by looking at the football displayed. If you see a team playing attractive football and you get the feeling it’s only a matter of time until the team clicks (as was the case with Klopp) then go ahead give the manager time and money. But in our case there is almost zero progress. Our Football lacks ideas and is as dull as it was since our honeymoon period under Ole was over (or: since he was given the full time job). In that scenario:No a third place in a god awful league last season (apart from City and Pool) is not enough. Combine that with another shit season start and you have to start asking serious questions about Ole.

He doesn't deserve it. It's 8 games into the most unprecedented season we've ever had and we're above Arsenal and City and well within catching distance of the teams above us with a game in hand.

He's earned this season after what he did last year and also how he lifted the players the season before that after Jose dumped all over them.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It's more a general point not aimed at you directly. I'm glad you can see that he can't be sacked immediately however many of the Ole out brigade don't agree. We're not far off the top of the league despite all we've had to contend with and I'm sure we can only get better as a lot of our better players haven't got going yet.

I'm sticking to my guns. The season and job he's done isn't defined after 8 games. If we're out of the picture come Spring then that's different.

Also I feel it's important to point out that it isn't so much the results and league position that's the issue for me, it's the performances. We really are dire to watch this season. It's quite shite watching our matches right now, I don't enjoy watching us play at all, apart from in maybe one or two games. You can call me a fickle sunshine supporter for saying that but I want a manager who makes Man Utd enjoyable to watch. I didn't want us to go from LvG to Mourinho to some weird mixture of both, for feck sake! I firmly believe we have a squad of players more than good enough to play attractive, free flowing football (we've seen it quite a few times under Ole) and I want a coaching staff here that can get it out of them. I personally don't think Ole is the man who'll be able to do that which is why I've never fully backed him and don't really now, but I'm still open to him changing my mind, by getting us playing good football, obviously.

 

[el3mel]

“get behind the manager” will be the death of this club

These arguments of their holders all fall short because it's only about the manager. It's a fair game for OP to slaughter Woodward, Glazers and say players are letting us down, but we should stand behind the manager!

Negativity for them is about talking about the manager and manager only. You can slaughter pretty much every other single person in the club and you'll still be labelled positive and reasonable, but dare to talk about the manager and you'll be negative, toxic, entitled and spoiled fan.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That’s not the sole reason he deserves the sack though. Again context matters. With the player material he has top 4 is the bare minimum but only if there is room for development and progress. The only way to measure that is by looking at the football displayed. If you see a team playing attractive football and you get the feeling it’s only a matter of time until the team clicks (as was the case with Klopp) then go ahead give the manager time and money. But in our case there is almost zero progress. Our Football lacks ideas and is as dull as it was since our honeymoon period under Ole was over (or: since he was given the full time job). In that scenario:No a third place in a god awful league last season (apart from City and Pool) is not enough. Combine that with another shit season start and you have to start asking serious questions about Ole.

You look how Liverpool still get results, even with injuries and their second string come in and nothing changes. Ole keeps playing certain players because their replacements come in and looks like they only walked through the door that morning. You watch the kids play and they swap from one team to another and still look comfortable. It is when they go into the first team they look lost.

 

[Godfather]

He took over a broken team that was headed for the lower half of the table if things continued. Now we're back in the CL, have made a couple of good additions, and most of the players from the Mourinho era that hasn't been sold is either out of the team or has improved.

The following have improved under Ole:
Lindelöf, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial.

More or less the same quality:
DDG, Shaw, Matic, Mata, Pogba

I can't think of a single decent player that has become worse under Ole.

Out of that list I'd only give you Fred. The others are pretty much the same as they were under Mou. But indivdual performances alone aren't enough to look at.

Have we progressed in pressing opponents? Have we progressed in breaking down deep sitting sides? The answer is no we haven't, which is why our football and our results are dire even after almost two years. A good result here and there against good sides is not enough to warrant a job here. I don't like us as underdogs. But that's where Ole flourishes.

 

[gajender]

I've said this before. Too many people here think Man Utd have a divine right to be a title contender every campaign. You need to get past this thinking as the PL is changing and more and more clubs are fielding quality teams that can compete in any match.

This myth that Pl is more competitive needs to die last few seasons Champions have record number of points total just because we have been shit doesn't make it a highly competitive league with several good teams our struggles say more about us than rest of the leagues quality.

Agree with the point that we don't have a divine right to compete but kind of money we have spent we should definitely be challenging.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

“get behind the manager” will be the death of this club

That line from Sir Alex in his speech has inadvertently set this club back years.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

On the flipside of that I find it quite tedious and embarrassing constantly having to read posters claiming that fans standards have dropped. It should be taken as read that everybody wants United to win titles again, but there are differing opinions about the best way to get there and how difficult that may or may not be.

Regardless of what one thinks of Ole, this is a good and important point.

I've said it before, but I suppose it bears repeating: I don't know a single United fan whose "standards have dropped" in the sense that they're now fine with us being an also-ran.

The idea that yer average "top red" is someone who thinks it's perfectly fine for United (with all our vast resources) to be mediocre for a decade or two - is ridiculous.

As a United fan, I grew up supporting a team in the shadow of Liverpool. Nobody I knew back then was fine with that. On the contrary, the general sentiment was always that United should do better, more precisely do what we eventually did under SAF, namely knock the Scousers off their feckin' perch. For me, that mentality is a given - but that doesn't mean I will cry mindlessly about "standards" without looking realistically at where we are, here and now.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It will be easier to get behind the manager if Ole didn't relegate Cardiff and his last trophy wasn't a Norwegian cup 7 years ago and if his time so far with us we weren't an inconsistent mess.

 

[Godfather]

These arguments of their holders all fall short because it's only about the manager. It's a fair game for OP to slaughter Woodward, Glazers and say players are letting us down, but we should stand behind the manager!

Negativity for them is about talking about the manager and manager only. You can slaughter pretty much every other single person in the club and you'll still be labelled positive and reasonable, but dare to talk about the manager and you'll be negative, toxic, entitled and spoiled fan.

Watch Pool yesterday and tell me again it's not mainly about the manager.

 

[BlueHaze]

I agree with that. I am not saying Ole is going to win us the league. If he was replaced, I wouldnt be surprised or wouldn't have a problem because I do think a better coach / manager would get more out of this team.

However; saying that the blame has nothing to the board is wrong because;
1. Ole wanted to get rid of certain players and the board couldn't which meant he couldnt get the players he wanted.
2. They failed to deliver a RW and CB

We clearly need a RW in this team, if you are going to appoint a manager who wants to play 4-2-3-1, you surely know that he needs wingers, so giving him 3 CAM's is kind of dumb.

It puts unnecessary pressure on the manager "why isnt Donny playing". If he had a RW signed, I am sure he would play most games.

You are confusing me now mate, are you talking about what others are saying or about me? Because I literally agree with everything you posted here. If you are implying that the board should take blame for the performance against WBA then god save me.

 

[Godfather]

He doesn't deserve it. It's 8 games into the most unprecedented season we've ever had and we're above Arsenal and City and well within catching distance of the teams above us with a game in hand.

He's earned this season after what he did last year and also how he lifted the players the season before that after Jose dumped all over them.

So no matter what he does he deserves this season? You are a nice person, I'll give you that.

 

[eire-red]

I'm not quite sure what's the point of this thread? How can anyone have watched us for the last two years or so and not see elements of our game that are still hugely worrying?

People who want to see Ole replaced ultimately just want to see a top class manager bring us back to being title challengers. I'm not sure how that equates to an 'overreaction' or not 'backing the club' or whatever the message is supposed to be.

7 years since SAF, and we still have the same inadequate board and executives making the decisions, questionable recruitment strategy, below par players and an unconvincing manager. What has changed? What progress have we made? Taking these 8 games at the start of the season as a representative sample for all of Ole's hardships so far is misleading. It's a culmination of what we have seen for the last 100 games under Ole that is where the frustration stems from, and its compounded by the poor start this season when finally things were looking promising.

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, a feeling of uncertainty as if everyone is waiting for the wheels to come off again and for us to go on a bad run of form. When do we finally call a spade a spade and admit that perhaps Ole isn't up to the task? This season is really there for the taking if one team can put together some consistent performances, and it looks like we've regressed instead of being ready to take the next step.

 

[OleBoiii]

In our current starting XI, 7 out of 11 players are from the Mourinho era and 1 out of the other 4 is a kid from the academy.

Out of the 7 "Mourinho" players, 5(arguably 6) play better now than they did for Mourinho. Our highs/peaks are also significantly higher than under Mourinho. Our best player is a Solskjær signing. Our bench looks stronger than it's ever done in the post Fergie era.

To say that nothing has improved under Ole is bollocks. We lack consistency. This will be the season that Ole needs to prove that he can achieve this. Being great for 50% of the season means nothing in the long run. It just proves that you have a high ceiling and can deal with any opponent. You need a special winning mentality to keep it up. That is what separates the great managers from the caretakers and miracle workers.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I get behind the club as in on the pitch. Nobody is behind us as a club off the pitch so you're clutching at straws massively there mate.

So your support means "get behind the manager". You call out all of us who want him gone/sacked because in our opinion he is not good enough. But at the same time it is ok to say that Martial, Mata, Lindelof, Pogba, Lingard, Jones, AWB and who knows who else is not good for United and deserves to be sold or in other words sacked.
Since Ole is our coach it became Ole=Club. Who doesn't want Ole here, doesn't love the club and is not true fan. Few years aho we laughed at RAWK about Klopp's worship

Then you talk about how fans lowered standards but at the same time you accept manager who relegated Cardiff, who barely finished 3rd and who lost 3 games already and has negative GD. Not to mention disaster against Spurs and subjective opinion that we play like shit.

 

[el3mel]

Watch Pool yesterday and tell me again it's not mainly about the manager.

No no no you got me wrong. I'm saying some here connect negativity to talking about the manager and manager alone. You're negative if you think the manager should go, but if you say Woodward is crap, players are shite and Glazers are terrible, it's a fair game, and with this you're not negative at all! It's crazy.

Even the OP slaughter Woodward in his thread about standing behind the club!

.Ed Woodward has once again messed up another window at the club. Seriously that guy has more lives than a cat. How on earth he still has his job is beyond me. People talk about Ole being out of his depth....Jesus christ. What does that make Woodward then? He's a disaster.

For these guys it's a fair game to slaughter everyone in the club but you should never do the same about the manager. With this you're not negative! You're negative and toxic only if you criticize the manager.

It's mental logic.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It will be easier to get behind the manager if Ole didn't relegate Cardiff and his last trophy wasn't a Norwegian cup 7 years ago and if his time so far with us we weren't an inconsistent mess.

Jurgen Klopp relegated Mainz in Germany. Means nothing. Cardiff were crap and doomed when he took over. They could have got relegated with Pep, Jose or Klopp in charge. They were championship players playing PL teams.

 

[Godfather]

It's more a general point not aimed at you directly. I'm glad you can see that he can't be sacked immediately however many of the Ole out brigade don't agree. We're not far off the top of the league despite all we've had to contend with and I'm sure we can only get better as a lot of our better players haven't got going yet.

I'm sticking to my guns. The season and job he's done isn't defined after 8 games. If we're out of the picture come Spring then that's different.

Oh Jesus. What is it so bad that we had to contend with? Are we in a massive injury crisis? Oh wait no, that's Pool who convincingly beat Leicester with their second string team yesterday. Or do we not have the player material to wipe the floor with WBA? No that's not the case either... So please tell us, what did Ole manager despite all that horrendous circumstances he is in? We are in ninth position. Well done.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

No no no you got me wrong. I'm saying some here connect negativity to talking about the manager and manager alone. You're negative if you think the manager should go, but if you say Woodward is crap, players are shite and Glazers are terrible, it's a fair game, and with this you're not negative at all! It's crazy.

Even the OP slaughter Woodward in his thread about standing behind the club!



For these guys it's a fair game to slaughter everyone in the club but you should never do the same about the manager. With this you're not negative! You're negative and toxic only if you criticize the manager.

It's mental logic.

No I have no problem with criticism. Sadly our childish fanbase can't criticise Ole. They just say sack him. There's a big difference between criticism and saying he needs to improve than just chucking the toys out of the pram and saying sack him.

 

[Godfather]

No no no you got me wrong. I'm saying some here connect negativity to talking about the manager and manager alone. You're negative if you think the manager should go, but if you say Woodward is crap, players are shite and Glazers are terrible, it's a fair game, and with this you're not negative at all! It's crazy.

Even the OP slaughter Woodward in his thread about standing behind the club!

Completely misread your post. I stand corrected.

 

[el3mel]

No I have no problem with criticism. Sadly our childish fanbase can't criticise Ole. They just say sack him. There's a big difference between criticism and saying he needs to improve than just chucking the toys out of the pram and saying sack him.

Yeah and you're doing the same with Woodward. Why is it a fair game to say that about Woodward and not Ole ?

 

[el3mel]

Completely misread your post. I stand corrected.

No problem mate.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

I love the club. I want the club to do better. I want to enjoy watching us play. I want to stop being bored during our matches. I want United matches to take precedent over spending time with my girlfriend, friends, family, right now they don’t. I will miss a United game if something better comes along these days. This was unthinkable a few years ago.

For these reasons I am not behind this manager.

You can call me a glory hunter or “not a real fan” if you want, but I want to make the change because I know we are going nowhere under this manager. You want to stick by him and you know we are going nowhere under him. So who really is the real fan I ask?

 

[romufc]

You are confusing me now mate, are you talking about what others are saying or about me? Because I literally agree with everything you posted here. If you are implying that the board should take blame for the performance against WBA then god save me.

No, I am not saying the board should take the blame for a singular performance. The performance is a result of the board being failures.

If someone hires a mechanic who changes tryres and gives him 1 type of locking wheel nut key, ofcourse theyll struggle with unlocking tryes that require a different key. Its simple really.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Oh Jesus. What is it so bad that we had to contend with? Are we in a massive injury crisis? Oh wait no, that's Pool who convincingly beat Leicester with their second string team yesterday. Or do we not have the player material to wipe the floor with WBA? No that's not the case either... So please tell us, what did Ole manager despite all that horrendous circumstances he is in? We are in ninth position. Well done.

Our captain getting arrested and having his head elsewhere for weeks? Few players getting covid? Mason having off the field troubles with the sad passing of his friend? Having no pre season whatsoever?

Do they not count then?

 

[hobbers]

We don't have a divine right to win the title or finish the season a few points off it, but we do have a divine right to expect the team to improve on last year. He's had the time and he's spent the money, and we have a squad that's largely the perfect age. We do have a divine right to expect our manager to be bringing us forward not backwards.

So far this season it's been a giant step backwards. Results and performances.

 

[Godfather]

In our current starting XI, 7 out of 11 players are from the Mourinho era and 1 out of the other 4 is a kid from the academy.

Out of the 7 "Mourinho" players, 5(arguably 6) play better now than they did for Mourinho. Our highs/peaks are also significantly higher than under Mourinho.

That is simply not true. We won a trophy under Mou in his first season and Pogba played his best football for us. In his second season Mou went downhill drastically but probably by intention as he saw he wasn't getting backed by the board.

 

[bosnian_red]

Joint 3rd most pts in the league since he took over (spanning 3 seasons). Joint with Chelsea but we've played a game less.

Ok you can look at it in a reductive way where only points total matters (Mourinho would stay forever in that case), or you can look at the games and see our performances are completely tumescent and we are rightfully mid table this season. Ole did well enough with what he had last year and we snuck in the top 4. Its also the time for him to leave now as we are clearly only going backwards now. He can both do a good job for what he was brought in for, and not be the guy to move forward with. Too many United fans are blinkered by needing the manager to build a dynasty. Its wrong. The manager stays when he does well and is replaced when he has nothing more positive to bring and if somebody else can do a better job. And believe me, many managers can do a better job than Ole with United right now. Rodgers did well for Liverpool. They also did well to replace him for a better manager before too much time had passed. We need to replace Ole rather than waste this season, because this season will be wasted otherwise. Just like how we waited too long to sack Mourinho, waited too long to sack Van Gaal and waited too long to sack Moyes. Its like the board is content with wasting a season.

Look at Bayern. They won the league and cup double in 2018/19 with Kovac. They sacked Kovac in November 2019, and went on to win the Champions League that season. Everything is about timing in football, who is the right player or manager for the right job at the right time. Right now, we need to replace Ole with someone who can coach our team so they can play a cohesive style of play and get the best out of them. After Mourinho, someone like Ole suited us for a bit. But that "bit" is past us now.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Jurgen Klopp relegated Mainz in Germany. Means nothing. Cardiff were crap and doomed when he took over. They could have got relegated with Pep, Jose or Klopp in charge. They were championship players playing PL teams.

Don't start with the Klopp comparisons please. Cardiff relegated when Ole was in charge and they also performed poorly with him in the championship. And however way you want to spin it, the fact remains Ole is massively underqualfied to coach this club and he hasn't done anything to clear people's doubts.

 

[OleBoiii]

Out of that list I'd only give you Fred. The others are pretty much the same as they were under Mou.

I strongly disagree. Martial looks like a different player. Rashford is more consistent. Lindelöf makes far fewer mistakes. McTominay's improvement has been marginal, but it's still a step in the right direction.

A good result here and there against good sides is not enough to warrant a job here.

This is dishonest to say the least. We were consistently good/great for half a season. That is not enough to get to where we want obviously, but it proves that we can play good football for long periods under Ole. The issue is having us play good football for a whole season(and preferably longer).

 

[Godfather]

Our captain getting arrested and having his head elsewhere for weeks? Few players getting covid? Mason having off the field troubles with the sad passing of his friend? Having no pre season whatsoever?

Do they not count then?

Players from other clubs got Covid as well. Players from other clubs have off field problems as well. Absolutely nothing to convince me this can serve as an excuse for our performances.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I love the club. I want the club to do better.

For these reasons I am not behind the manager.

We all do but most of us realise the size of task and that it takes time. You lot will want Poch out or whoever replaces him the second the results turn sour which they will.

He's only had 1 full season in charge and finished as high up as was ever possible. No chance was he finishing top 2 last season so he at least deserves till May. If we come below 4th then there's a decision to be made.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Btw something highly irritating with this forum is when supporters go against each other and say "your not a real fan" and other rubbish statements along those lines.

Great point.

The d*ck measuring on this forum in regards to members fandom stifles most conversation. The second you disagree you’re a ‘plastic’ etc.

Its a millennial trait.

On the flipside of that I find it quite tedious and embarrassing constantly having to read posters claiming that fans standards have dropped. It should be taken as read that everybody wants United to win titles again, but there are differing opinions about the best way to get there and how difficult that may or may not be.

Another fair point although both aren’t the same thing.

Standards have dropped when fans are falling over themselves less than 10 games into the season to justify regression in our previous league finish. The race hasn’t even been run & people are building in the excuses.

You’re right though, everybody wants us to win titles so disagreeing in the path back there shouldn’t be the issue it has become.