He is our best defender and it's not even close. You don't improve a team by getting rid of your best players. You improve a team by making your best players your 2nd and 3rd best.
When do we cut our losses on Maguire?
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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Maguire is a good defender who has comfortably been our best and most consistent defender since he's arrived.
I agee with the 'if what we required was a traditional CB then we should have kept Smalling'
However Maguire is younger, I also dont think Lindelof is better than him. On top of that when you have just purchased an expensive asset that you thought was worth it, you are more likely to hold onto it than accepting that you were wrong and sell it for a discounted original price
Before we sell Maguire i think we will most likely sell Lindelof first. Or maybe just fecking sell Jones, Rojo first because what have they been doing this season exactly?
However Maguire is younger, I also dont think Lindelof is better than him. On top of that when you have just purchased an expensive asset that you thought was worth it, you are more likely to hold onto it than accepting that you were wrong and sell it for a discounted original price
Before we sell Maguire i think we will most likely sell Lindelof first. Or maybe just fecking sell Jones, Rojo first because what have they been doing this season exactly?
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Yeah, he is good enough. Your thread sucks.
Those "fans' have no idea what they are talking about and probably just repeating whatever Mark Goldbridge says
So if someone disagrees with your opinion on a player they are either clueless or not real ‘fans’
Ok, that’s reasonable.
Maguire is our best defender. Just because he does not have pace, does not per se make him a liability. Pair him with a faster defender and this will work. Somewhat like how Bruce was paired with Pallister.
You're too naive if you think the transfer fee doesn't weight in into his ratings.
If Maguire was bought for 800k he's the best United signing ever
If Maguire was brought for 200M he's the biggest flop ever
Now he's 80M worth of money, so it's rightly so he's judged by 80M standard
Was it his fault he cost 80? Nope
But still, he's not playing like an 80M defender. That's the price for a world class defender, and anyone arguing he's world class is off his rocker
If Maguire was bought for 800k he's the best United signing ever
If Maguire was brought for 200M he's the biggest flop ever
Now he's 80M worth of money, so it's rightly so he's judged by 80M standard
Was it his fault he cost 80? Nope
But still, he's not playing like an 80M defender. That's the price for a world class defender, and anyone arguing he's world class is off his rocker
There will always be more people who complain rather than praise. This is life. Even more so when you are not doing well. So, please accept it that so long as we don't win the league or challenge strongly for it, no one will properly appreciate the strength and overlook the weakness of any player, ESPECIALLY the captain and most of the time most expensive player on the pitch (including counting the opposition 11).
As it stands, not everyone is convinced by the quality of this particular guy, and we must accept debate into this. The title is as it is, but it is just a debate into whether he's good enough to stay, good enough to be the main guy at the back.....To those who are fed up with this, by all means refrain...there is no point to argue semantics like "When" is a stupid word bla bla etc. This just invites debates into English words that derail the discussion further.
My take is this: He has not convinced me this season, not by any stretch of imagination. He looks shaky as hell, confidence is down. It could be due to his Mykonos escapades which I entirely blame him : Why did he have to go? I've been working my butt off throughout the year for much less (just to keep mouths fed during this covid) and I can't understand why a millionaire will let his guard down in a risky foreign place. If you MUST GO, I don't understand why he can't hire a few bodyguards to keep the thugs away. As a captain, do you think he has shown the best example in this? He can't and shouldn't blame lack of pre-season ; as a pro, you look at your own calendar and prepare yourself to match the level that you think your opponent will prepare to. Not being ready means not deserving of your salary.
On a good day he is a capable defender, but I'm worried that he is too easily bullied either by pace or by force. Positioning wise he is usually ok. But he is hugging far too many of our own players which indicates he is not too aware where the opponents are. And that is worrying.
Anyone who goes near him fancies a chance in the air and on the ground (He lost Demba Ba, an EPL reject in the home and away a few times, just to make an illustration).
Yes, he passes well in the opposition half, he can carry the ball more than a few meters. At times it is useful. He also pops in with a goal once in a while which is very useful when we are 0-0. He also does very well by being available a lot of the time.
But, he is sadly the best center back we have available. As of now, I would much rather replace Lindelof AND Bailly with 1 single, center back. Someone mentions Upamecano..I'm not too convinced. Options??
As it stands, not everyone is convinced by the quality of this particular guy, and we must accept debate into this. The title is as it is, but it is just a debate into whether he's good enough to stay, good enough to be the main guy at the back.....To those who are fed up with this, by all means refrain...there is no point to argue semantics like "When" is a stupid word bla bla etc. This just invites debates into English words that derail the discussion further.
My take is this: He has not convinced me this season, not by any stretch of imagination. He looks shaky as hell, confidence is down. It could be due to his Mykonos escapades which I entirely blame him : Why did he have to go? I've been working my butt off throughout the year for much less (just to keep mouths fed during this covid) and I can't understand why a millionaire will let his guard down in a risky foreign place. If you MUST GO, I don't understand why he can't hire a few bodyguards to keep the thugs away. As a captain, do you think he has shown the best example in this? He can't and shouldn't blame lack of pre-season ; as a pro, you look at your own calendar and prepare yourself to match the level that you think your opponent will prepare to. Not being ready means not deserving of your salary.
On a good day he is a capable defender, but I'm worried that he is too easily bullied either by pace or by force. Positioning wise he is usually ok. But he is hugging far too many of our own players which indicates he is not too aware where the opponents are. And that is worrying.
Anyone who goes near him fancies a chance in the air and on the ground (He lost Demba Ba, an EPL reject in the home and away a few times, just to make an illustration).
Yes, he passes well in the opposition half, he can carry the ball more than a few meters. At times it is useful. He also pops in with a goal once in a while which is very useful when we are 0-0. He also does very well by being available a lot of the time.
But, he is sadly the best center back we have available. As of now, I would much rather replace Lindelof AND Bailly with 1 single, center back. Someone mentions Upamecano..I'm not too convinced. Options??
I see Maguire as a Lukaku type.
May be good individually under certain circumstances that play to his strengths, but not the right fit for a team wanting to dominate the PL and Europe. Because of this, I don't see the absurdity of replacing him with someone of a better fit even though the player may not be as good as him individually. Very similar to Lukaku, actually.
With that in mind, if the price is high enough, it would be a good idea to sell him and replace with a better fit. It's not going to happen under Ole, but it very well may happen eventually.
May be good individually under certain circumstances that play to his strengths, but not the right fit for a team wanting to dominate the PL and Europe. Because of this, I don't see the absurdity of replacing him with someone of a better fit even though the player may not be as good as him individually. Very similar to Lukaku, actually.
With that in mind, if the price is high enough, it would be a good idea to sell him and replace with a better fit. It's not going to happen under Ole, but it very well may happen eventually.
He doesn’t fit a high pressing team, so no idea why Ole bought him. If Ole doesn’t recognise that, then both of them need to go.
To fit him in our current team, we should get a combative, ultra-fit, mobile DM who is good at passing between the lines. I think that should’ve been Partey, but we, as a club, failed on that. The scouting team should be trying to identify someone in this mould as our next key purchase.
This will be a win-win since we all want a holding midfield replacement for Matic, and should it help to make Maguire look better, then it’ll shut the maguire haters (like me) up.
To fit him in our current team, we should get a combative, ultra-fit, mobile DM who is good at passing between the lines. I think that should’ve been Partey, but we, as a club, failed on that. The scouting team should be trying to identify someone in this mould as our next key purchase.
This will be a win-win since we all want a holding midfield replacement for Matic, and should it help to make Maguire look better, then it’ll shut the maguire haters (like me) up.
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Believe what you believe, because we are going nowhere if you keep including backup players into argument and arguing Laporte & Dias‘s case.
However, one thing you cannot argue is fact. Fact tells you are wrong about Maguire.
The guy is currently and has been above Joe Gomez for years in national team, and Gomez is starting XI centre back in title winning team. And that’s why there are two managers wanted him to be their starting XI centre back for the sake of rebuilding title winning and title winning team.
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@OP You should have known that majority in here worship mediocrity.
Or being realistic and see the bigger picture. Instead of moaning and whining to sack, sell and abuse a player.
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I think that's what it is, spoilt brats asking for quick changes when things aren't going well for them.
Not when they are going against all reason. You are letting your agenda get the better of you. You decided you don't like him and ignore all evidence of how great he is. Do real fans put their agenda ahead of the club? I don't think so. But go on. Argue these stats and tell us again how it's "time to cut our losses". Then stick to your guns and deny again that Maguire is in deed our best central defender. The stats are close in a couple of categories, but that's it. It's all Maguire. And that's all despite Lindelof being fortunate enough to miss (make that be benched for poor performances) for the Tottenham game. Now don't get me wrong. I like Lindelof. I just hate this agenda against Maguire and this myth that others on our team are better than him. That's all agenda driven. The numbers speak for themself...
----------------Tks---Bks----Int----Clr---HdClr---Rcv---DW--DL--ABW---ABL---Pass %----LB----KP
Maguire-----4------4------16----31----22--------51------49---18----37-------6--------87.9-----4.5---.3
Lindelof-----4------0-------8-----28-----8---------47------18---19----11------13-------90.7-----2.5----.3
Legend: Tks=Tackles Bks=Blocks Int=Interceptions Clr=Clearances HdClr=Headed Clearances Rcv=Recoveries DW=Duals Won DL=Duals Lost ABW=Aerial Battles Won ABL=Aerial Battles Lost LB=Long Ball KP=Key Passes
Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League
Victor Lindelöf Statistics | Premier League
Harry Maguire Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
Victor Lindelöf Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
So those are this years numbers. Here are last years numbers which also include one Virgil Van Dijk
------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50
Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost
https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
Now I'm sure there are enough people with an agenda who still think Maguire set his own price and let that effect their opinion of him. There are also several on here who can't think for themselves and just repeat whatever Mark Goldbridge says. But when you look at the facts, and these stats are indeed the facts, you will quickly realize that Maguire isn't just our best central defender, but it isn't even close...
...
Thank the lord someone posted a decent response to that previous post. So because a lot of fans think Maguire is a damned good defender (albeit expensive) we worship mediocrity. Bloody ridiculous.
Do you watch many of our games? He’s had some brilliant games for us and while he may not be the very best defender in the world he will very rarely let us down.
See below, I’ve nothing more to add really.
This whole thread is a car crash. He will captain England and United for a long time. Get used to it.
He's nowhere. fecking. near. as bad as people make out here.
He has his weaknesses just like every other CB out there. Look how many errors VVD has made.
Prime example of people viewing a player through the price we paid for them. United overpay for everybody, since forever, with the exception of Bruno.
The time to ask this question will be if/when we sign a CB who will match Maguire's aerial dominancy and in addition also be able to help the team defend in a high line, something Maguire is not capable of doing IMO. Until then, he's our only CB who is dominant in the air, and for that reason he will be a starter. But I do believe he could be upgraded upon by certain CBs who would help us not only in a deep defensive line but also defend in 1v1 scenarios higher up the pitch which would allow us to sacrifice defensive stability for goals and play a more expansive attacking brand of football.
Don’t think that’s saying much tbh. Don’t think Maguire has been a disaster, but most people knew we were getting fleeced by Leicester long before the purchase was final.
Starting from 3:22, a montage of him controlling and dribbling. How the feck can someone said "He is not a good ball playing CB at all".
Explain to me. I'm waiting.
There you go OP. A whopping 72 interceptions. Now compare that to any average defenders you think he is leveled at, according to your assumptions.
The fact that the OP is claiming Telles is an elite LB should tell you all you need to know.
He was good in Portugal but hasn't been in the PL for a wet week. Telles might be a very good player for us but there's not enough evidence to make that claim.
On the other hand, there's plenty of evidence to suggest Maguire is our best defender but no Telles is elite and Maguire needs to be sold.
With players like Upamecano and Fofana, it's about their overall potential. They have the skillset to surpass Maguire. Looks at where they were playing at 19 compared to Maguire.
At 21, Maguire wasn't able to get into the Hull side. He was sent out on loan to Wigan. Hull were relegated.
Maguire couldn't get into the Hull side after his loan either. He was in and out of the side, starting just 18 of their 46 games in The Championship.
The next season, aged 23 under Mike Phelan and Marco Silva, he finally found a way into the side regularly after game 14.
So up until 23.5 years of age, he wasn't a regular PL player. His career mainly consisted of League One and Championship appearances. He did well at Hull despite them being relegated, and also impressed at Leicester. His 1st England cap was at the age of 24.
To go from an uncapped England player in 2016 to a world record fee for a defender in 2019 is pretty much insanity.
I don't think he's top class but he's still a good CB and I wouldn't sell him.
Just as a side note: Some players develop later but then play on a high level until a late age while others play on a high level early on but then fade away sooner.
where were RVN, Vardy and Drogba at 21? There will be lots of examples of defenders also.
Comparing players at a young age is extremely flawed. The players you have mentioned, have potential, but then so do many more, and most never get even close to fulfilling it.
What a weird thread. He's our best centre back hands down.
More absolute nonsense from you.
It's not fact, it is an opinion.
You reference how he has been better than Joe Gomez for years. Gomez is a player who is four years younger than Maguire. Who at 23 has one full season under his belt, in a far better team, in defence that was carried and controlled by the best defender in the world at the. At 23 Maguire was struggling to get into the Hull team.
I think I can make reference to any players he signed to demonstrate how poor his signings have been. But I have made the point solely related to defenders. And you are unwilling to accept that track record is poor. He has only ever signed 2 defenders that have been total successes under him, they Pique and Alves.
Seems that way doesn’t it. To be fair I should have known better, if you go back and read a few old player threads from a few years ago, the caf has overrated our players for some time now. People will read through this thread in a few years and have a good laugh either at me or the dozens of massive Maguire fans. I think I know who it’ll be...
Th
The rot runs deep within our club, fanbase, players etc. The culture of winning has been forgotten. The culture of being outstanding to be able to wear that United jersey is almost forgotten too. Apologists at every level and excuses for everything. Sad but true.
Let's go through just the best English centre backs of the past 30 years.
Tony Adams - teenage prodigy at Arsenal
Sol Campbell - teenage prodigy at Spurs
Rio Ferdinand - teenage prodigy at West Ham
Jamie Carragher - made his PL debut at 18
John Terry - teenage prodigy at Chelsea
Ledley King - Made his PL debut at 18
Seeing a pattern here, lads?
Maguire was a teenage prodigy at Sheffield United in League One.
Finally somebody who actually talks sense. Supporting the club & blind loyalty to an underperforming manager & players who clearly aren’t good enough is not the same thing. I cringe every team I see that tired old “not a real fan” line, surely us who demand better are the “real fans” while the people who accept mediocrity are the fake fans, right? It’s sad what we have become. I don’t know how many Sunday league level mistakes Maguire has to make before these lot wake up. I saw people saying he had a good game against Istanbul & thought I was going insane, because it looked like anything but to me.
The fact of the matter is in the modern game if you’re a mistake prone defender, which Maguire absolutely is, you better have the recovery pace to make up for it, which he absolutely doesn’t. He’s good in the air & strong in the tackle, maybe he’d have made it at United in 1996, but football has changed and this guy really ain’t it.
Nobody is overrating him. He’s our best CB and a good one. This thread was an awful one.
Just because people don’t think he’s shit like you, doesn’t mean we over rate him.
Why Maguire and Gomez age are matter in this argument?
We are talking about whether Maguire is good enough to be starting centre back in title winning. We are not talking about who is more talented or who has higher potential.
This 23 years old Gomez level is already good enough to be starting centre back in title winning, that means any centre back at his current level is proven good enough.
The 2018, 2019 Maguire and the current Maguire level is still above this current Gomez level in pecking order of national team, that’s fact not opinion. If you think it’s opinion not fact then explain why Maguire keep playing over Gomez in national team? Don’t just blindly calling fact as opinion.
And you still haven’t explain to me why the backup signings matter in this argument. You can’t just put backup and starting XI signings in the same category just to suit your own argument.
Apologists, worshippers of mediocrity... Jaysus what a thread 
And to complain that this place over-rates players? The caf regularly runs every player down unless they are prime Keane or Robson and even then I'm sure they'd get pelters too on occasion.
And to complain that this place over-rates players? The caf regularly runs every player down unless they are prime Keane or Robson and even then I'm sure they'd get pelters too on occasion.
I mean it's bonkers to say Lindelof is better than Maguire when Maguire he can't even head the ball.
But it's nuts that we spent £80m on a CB who is just painfully too slow when we have aspirations to be a front foot team like Bayern, City or Liverpool.
But it's nuts that we spent £80m on a CB who is just painfully too slow when we have aspirations to be a front foot team like Bayern, City or Liverpool.
When we find a better pairing that doesn't include him I guess.
The thing is, who'd buy him in this market for anything more than 50m?
Suppose we spend it + another 30m for another top rated CB it'll just mean we paid 110m for him, with the net effect of having not played him for 2 seasons.
Pair this new guy with lindelof and we get the same hair pulling results that killed Jose.
Why not we offload lindelof (15m) and rojo (5m) and Jones(free, up the salary bill), + 15m from smalling and + 30m and bailley (12m) and get 1 good player instead? Tuanzebe in understudy and mengi as emergency. If the replacement isn't as costly we can even opt to keep bailley.
Suppose we spend it + another 30m for another top rated CB it'll just mean we paid 110m for him, with the net effect of having not played him for 2 seasons.
Pair this new guy with lindelof and we get the same hair pulling results that killed Jose.
Why not we offload lindelof (15m) and rojo (5m) and Jones(free, up the salary bill), + 15m from smalling and + 30m and bailley (12m) and get 1 good player instead? Tuanzebe in understudy and mengi as emergency. If the replacement isn't as costly we can even opt to keep bailley.
Only in match day threads & post match threads. In general you’d think Maguire was prime Vidic & Ole was Sir Alex & Sir Matt’s love child based on here.Apologists, worshippers of mediocrity... Jaysus what a thread
And to complain that this place over-rates players? The caf regularly runs every player down unless they are prime Keane or Robson and even then I'm sure they'd get pelters too on occasion.
The only player who is regularly dragged on here is Pogba. Even the most average of players like James & Williams are rated.
I said Lindelof is a better ball playing defender than Maguire. Lindelof is the type of player Barcelona would sign. He’s not good in the air & probably not a good fit for England, but as a footballer he’s miles better than Maguire.