When do we cut our losses on Maguire?

[RkkMan]

one thing this thread has told me is redcafe rates Maguire very very highly. I’m in my 20s, my social circle is predominantly football fans around the same age (Utd/City mostly) literally none of us rate Maguire anywhere near this highly.

May I ask what is so unbelievably impressive about him? Because I can’t speak for all fans, but the majority of people I know don’t think he’s good enough.

I`m also in my 20s and I rate him. I actually think he`s our best/least flawed CB. He`s admittedly not a "stand out" CB like Ramos/VVD(not many are) or fast but he`s reliable fitness wise, more consistent with his performances(6/7 out of 10 most games) and reliable on the ball. For 80m its okay to want more but he`s improved our defence whichever way you view him hence why last season we had the most cleansheets in Europe and currently on 15 cleansheets in 23 games, he`s not by any means one of our biggest problems when we have no out out DM, no RW(Diallo could change that) and no quick CB and between him and Lindelof most managers will choose to persist with Maguire if a new CB comes in. We can with trophies with him but not as the main CB we either need a dominat CB next to him like VVD or someone like Upamecano who`s quick style of play complements Maguire well. We overpaid for him by like 30-40m but believe it or not based on circumstances he was our best option in summer 2019(De Ligt wanted CL football, Koulibaly had a 130m release clause Napoli didn`t want less, De Vrij didn`t want to leave Italy, Ruben Dias was priced around 60-70m and he`s not much if any better than Maguire)

 

[romufc]

mangers rating a player doesn’t always tell the full story. Jose rated Fellaini & begged for us to give him a new contract, he didn’t rate Salah & De Bruyne & let them both go cheap.

So fans who watch games know more than managers?

A single manager can get it wrong, but when 4/5 managers rate someone, there must be a reason.

Jose didn't rate them because he just wants to win, they were 18/19, players develop.

 

[MadDogg]

Maguire's good games have been very good. The issue, as it is with so many of our players, is consistency.

Overall he and Lindelof were at similar levels last season. Maguire certainly had higher peaks, but he also had poor periods of form where Lindelof was definitely better (after lockdown most noticeably, but there were moments before that as well). The question going forward is whether he can be more consistent and show his good qualities more often? If he can do that then he's good enough, but if he can't then the question can definitely be asked.

A more suitable partner definitely might help. Centre backs more than any other position work as a partnership, and Maguire does have weaknesses that could be covered better by somebody other than Lindelof who has many of the same weaknesses. Of course even if we do get the right partner then Maguire better make that improvement or else Lindelof might push him for that spot. There's also Tuanzebe waiting in the wings (maybe he'll end up being that partner for Maguire/Lindelof, or he might push them both out of the team if we sign someone else).

 

[meamth]

mangers rating a player doesn’t always tell the full story. Jose rated Fellaini & begged for us to give him a new contract, he didn’t rate Salah & De Bruyne & let them both go cheap.

Sigh. Go on then, go take a coaching license or badges. You're 20 after all, still can make it.

 

[meamth]

If Maguire was at Liverpool and we had instead bought Upamecano, would you still be claiming all of the above about Maguire?

Upamecano hasn't prove shite yet.

 

[romufc]

If Maguire was at Liverpool and we had instead bought Upamecano, would you still be claiming all of the above about Maguire?

What has Upamecano done? This season in the CL because I havent watched their Bundesliga games:

He was made to look very ordinary by Rashford against us.
He made 2 mistakes against PSG - one led to a penalty
He made another mistake against PSG which again led to a penalty.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just look at Leicester's defence not missing a beat once he left. This guy is not good enough.

feck me, Leicester have conceded more than us since he left like.

 

[Cassidy]

feck me, Leicester have conceded more than us since he left like.

They also did before he left...

 

[meamth]

What has Upamecano done? This season in the CL because I havent watched their Bundesliga games:

He was made to look very ordinary by Rashford against us.
He made 2 mistakes against PSG - one led to a penalty
He made another mistake against PSG which again led to a penalty.

3 caps midfielder is better than first choice English CB.

If Ole's CV matters, player CV's means feck all! That's unfair!

 

[romufc]

3 caps midfielder is better than first choice English CB.

If Ole's CV matters, player CV's means feck all! That's unfair!

"But England dont have any other CB" is the argument.

Ofcourse not, its all about who is the flavour of the month. Alot of fans who say Upamecano need to also realise he plays in a back 3 not 2 in most games.

He may turn out to be a solid defender but Maguire at the moment is better.

 

[Gabagoo]

@meamth , @romufc ...
So basically the answer is No: if Maguire was playing for another side, you wouldn't be fussing over him. The only reason for the praise is that he's a United player, so you feel the need to defend 'one of our own'.

I think he's a decent player - and I'd love him to be one of our all time greats - but currently he's not irreplaceable. Not even close.

 

[Oranges038]

Pep is the worst managers buying full backs but not centre back. So far he has only signed 4 centre backs for City, only 1 of them is shit which is John Stones.

But John Stones is a centre back who is multiple times got dropped to bench by Martinez (Everton manager) the season before City signed him. It was always questionable and has zero logic how a player who can’t be regular at Everton is good enough for Pep’s city.

Maguire is different, the guy is regular with his club Leicester like Laporte at Bilbao and regular in the national team like Dias.

He has managed teams before City you know. Have a look at his signings for those and come back and let us know which ones were actually good.

I see Alves and Pique as the only two defenders who turned out to be good signings for him.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He has managed teams before City you know. Have a look at his signings for those and come back and let us know which ones were actually good.

I see Alves and Pique as the only two defenders who turned out to be good signings for him.

You clearly are not reading my very first sentence.

Pique, Mascherano, Ruben Dias, Laporte. These are good centre back for his regular choice. The rest were signed for just backup like Ake which is good enough for backup quality. The only failure are Stones & Benatia.

 

[Jonno]

Maguire had a bit of a wobble at the start of the season. He went through personal turmoil in the summer, then he just like every other defender in the PL didn't get a pre-season of any kind, and was subsequently all over the place, just like every defender in the PL. Really kind of fellow United fans to slate their own, and ignore how shi!te most defences have been.

He's back to last seasons form now, commanding the defence well, leading from the back. Yes he's sluggishly slow, and he was expensive, but I don't really care. Some of the best CB's in world football history were slow and or expensive. He's a solid PL CB and I'm glad we've got him instead of shuffling Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo, Blind, Smalling, Jones, Bore off with your agendas.

 

[crossy1686]

This thread is a bit premature, no?

Spoiled entitlement culture is rife it seems.

 

[iHicksy]

You clearly are not reading my very first sentence.

Pique, Mascherano, Ruben Dias, Laporte. These are good centre back for his regular choice. The rest were signed for just backup like Ake which is good enough for backup quality. The only failure are Stones & Benatia.

That's not true at all. Failures:

Stones
Benatia
Angelino
Danilo
Mendy

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

That's not true at all. Failures:

Stones
Benatia
Angelino
Danilo
Mendy

Read this bold mark:

Pep is the worst managers buying full backs but not centre back. So far he has only signed 4 centre backs for City, only 1 of them is shit which is John Stones.

But John Stones is a centre back who is multiple times got dropped to bench by Martinez (Everton manager) the season before City signed him. It was always questionable and has zero logic how a player who can’t be regular at Everton is good enough for Pep’s city.

Maguire is different, the guy is regular with his club Leicester like Laporte at Bilbao and regular in the national team like Dias.

 

[JJ12]

First of all I don’t care if he’s English, Spanish or bloody Azerbaijani, all that matters to me is how good he is. So that tired boring “you only don’t rate him because he’s English” rhetoric that so many on here spew just isn’t applicable whatsoever.

I disagree with the bolded. He’s one of the least pressure resistant players we have. He almost always makes basic mistakes when pressured. I also think his passing is vastly overrated. Lindelof is a far better passer of the ball.

Anyway, I wish you were all right about him. I wish he was the absolute colossal beast that the caf thinks he is, but sadly, he’s not. Whenever he has his next disasterclass & somebody bumps this it’ll be interesting reading that’s for sure.

Nobody has said he’s a colossal beast. Nor should we be ‘cutting our losses’

He’s a very good CB and this thread is a shambles.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

He's probably better than Bernat and current Alba but get your point. Top 5 or not, he's way better as a left back than Shaw.

According to quite a few so was Williams for a while. Maybe better to wait at least a few more matches before deciding he's way better than Shaw.

 

[Real Name]

Silly to waste one of 3 available posts like this but I'll do it anyway:

Silly thread.

 

[Andersonson]

Same was said about De Gea. Hendo is a much better GK etc.

Maguire is a good player. Bad form or not. We wont sell our captain. Deal with it

 

[romufc]

@meamth , @romufc ...
So basically the answer is No: if Maguire was playing for another side, you wouldn't be fussing over him. The only reason for the praise is that he's a United player, so you feel the need to defend 'one of our own'.

I think he's a decent player - and I'd love him to be one of our all time greats - but currently he's not irreplaceable. Not even close.

I mean do you fuss over Laporte, Dias, Gomez, Gabriel?

Do you fuss over Sterling, Werner, Kovacic, Tierney?

Does it mean they are crap? No. They are very good players

Who said anything about a great? a player can be good without having to be WC or shit?

 

[R0nald0]

He's a very good centre back but centre backs are partnerships and they need the opposite CB to compliment them. Maguire provides some great qualities and he needs his partner to provide the the other qualities needed, such as pace, good 1v1. The big problem we have is we have nobody to provide the qualities that Maguire lacks in his partner.

If we signed a left sided, quick def who was excellent 1 on 1 then Maguire would flourish.

 

[Oranges038]

You clearly are not reading my very first sentence.

Pique, Mascherano, Ruben Dias, Laporte. These are good centre back for his regular choice. The rest were signed for just backup like Ake which is good enough for backup quality. The only failure are Stones & Benatia.

He is also not great at signing centre backs, in fact if you want to go deeper
that that his track record for a top manager in the transfer market isn't great at all.

Mascherano was signed as a defensive midfielder, who dropped into centre back because the centre backs signed to cover weren't even good enough to do that. He dropped in there full time when Puyol wasnt fit to play anymore. You what to count Yaya in there as a CB too? He played there for Pep.

The main reason he hasn't had to sign many big players in those central positions is because he took over teams that already had established players in those areas. The ones he has signed have been mostly rubbish.

25m for Chygrinski and Benatia are big failures. Stones cost about 50 million, massive failure. The likes of Kirchoff, Tasci, Caceres, Henrique etc were signed as back up and weren't up to scratch , even for cover.

Laporte has been good. Time will tell whether Dias or Ake will be considered decent signings.

 

[lee82gx]

I still haven't gotten an answer and I've asked it twice already in thread. I'm genuinely interested, which CB should we get or have gotten back then we were in for Maguire that is a better option than Maguire

Remember the fatty, Matthjis de ligt? We could have some pretty penny in fact if we got him. I spent my last post of the day now, so TTYL!

 

[GueRed]

one thing this thread has told me is redcafe rates Maguire very very highly. I’m in my 20s, my social circle is predominantly football fans around the same age (Utd/City mostly) literally none of us rate Maguire anywhere near this highly.

May I ask what is so unbelievably impressive about him? Because I can’t speak for all fans, but the majority of people I know don’t think he’s good enough.

i think its his style you dont like. he's very boring in that he's not flashy and instagrammy on and off the pitch which impress you young kids

just judge him on his performance levels the last 16-18 months he's been here. In the main apart from the dogshit few games at the start of the season he's been consistently solid.

and when you see who he plays alongside every week thats impressive

 

[GueRed]

Remember the fatty, Matthjis de ligt? We could have some pretty penny in fact if we got him. I spent my last post of the day now, so TTYL!

unfortunately Manchester United had little chance of aquiring his services

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He is also not great at signing centre backs, in fact if you want to go deeper
that that his track record for a top manager in the transfer market isn't great at all.

Mascherano was signed as a defensive midfielder, who dropped into centre back because the centre backs signed to cover weren't even good enough to do that. He dropped in there full time when Puyol wasnt fit to play anymore. You what to count Yaya in there as a CB too? He played there for Pep.

The main reason he hasn't had to sign many big players in those central positions is because he took over teams that already had established players in those areas. The ones he has signed have been mostly rubbish.

25m for Chygrinski and Benatia are big failures. Stones cost about 50 million, massive failure. The likes of Kirchoff, Tasci, Caceres, Henrique etc were signed as back up and weren't up to scratch , even for cover.

Laporte has been good. Time will tell whether Dias or Ake will be considered decent signings.

Are you forgetting that the original argument or the original post that I replied was specifically referring to ''starting centre back'' for a title winning team? Don't mix backup signing into the argument.

The rest are just backup quality signings which don't matter because none have expectation on them. For example, Chygrinski was signed in 2009 and then sold in 2010. Only lasted a year with very little matches he played, that's not type of centre back was signed with high expectation and for regular.

And also how much the price was whether small and big fees doesn't matter too, after all, we could make argument about Ake for 40m is high for backup but the journalist have made clear statement he was signed as backup.

Maguire on the other hand is not signed to be backup but actually for purpose to be starting XI. So he is in the same category of Pique, Laporte, Dias, Mascherano, Benatia & Stones. Benatia & Stones might be failure to be his regular centre back but the other four succeeded.

 

[Oranges038]

Are you forgetting that the original argument or the original post that I replied was specifically referring to ''starting centre back'' for a title winning team? Don't mix backup signing into the argument.

The rest are just backup quality signings which don't matter because none have expectation on them. For example, Chygrinski was signed in 2009 and then sold in 2010. Only lasted a year with very little matches he played, that's not type of centre back was signed with high expectation and for regular.

And also how much the price was whether small and big fees doesn't matter too, after all, we could make argument about Ake for 40m is high for backup but the journalist have made clear statement he was signed as backup.

Maguire on the other hand is not signed to be backup but actually for purpose to be starting XI. So he is in the same category of Pique, Laporte, Dias, Mascherano, Benatia & Stones. Benatia & Stones might be failure to be his regular centre back but the other four succeeded.

Again, Mascherano was not signed as a CB. Dias has played a handful of games and City are currently not playing very well. And in 2009 you do not pay 25 m for a centre back from Ukraine as backup for one year.

I go back to my original point, Harry Maguire is not good enough to be the linchpin in a defence for a team that has serious aspirations to win major trophies.

I see you are just trying to prove your point that signing him because Pep wanted to is a way to justify the transfer. It's not, as Pep's transfer record, particularly with centre backs is poor, and in general with defenders is very poor. If you look closer his transfer record overall really isn't that great.

So would you buy a car because someone else wanted it, even if most of the cars they had bought previously were already on the scrap heap?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What's slightly amusing to me is that some of those who are shouting the loudest about how crap Maguire is, would absolutely - as in with 100% certainty - start kicking and screaming the moment it became apparent to them that Upamecano is very far from being a flawless football player.

 

[simplyared]

This thread should be locked for the title alone. "When do we cut our losses on Maguire"
FFS!

 

[Laphroaig]

Jose didn't rate them because he just wants to win, they were 18/19, players develop.

Salah was 24 when he left the club (23 when Mourinho left), KDB 23 (22).

 

[el3mel]

one thing this thread has told me is redcafe rates Maguire very very highly. I’m in my 20s, my social circle is predominantly football fans around the same age (Utd/City mostly) literally none of us rate Maguire anywhere near this highly.

May I ask what is so unbelievably impressive about him? Because I can’t speak for all fans, but the majority of people I know don’t think he’s good enough.

Not really you were just unlucky with the thread timing and those who replied on it. As I said check the similar thread I posted its link about the same thing not long time ago and you will find many not convinced with him.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-consider-selling-harry-maguire.457917/

All depends on your luck really. The OP of this thread didn't receive half the bashing you got.

 

[romufc]

Salah was 24 when he left the club (23 when Mourinho left), KDB 23 (22).

Apologies.

https://talksport.com/football/476936/jose-mourinho-mohamed-salah-chelsea/

But here you go, where does it show that he didnt rate Salah?

With KDB, he had other players in that position and looks like there was a personality clash.

 

[MattofManchester]

You can't cut losses on an 80m CB. He can be as calamitous as humanly possible, and will still play week in week out.

Thats just the reality.

 

[Giggsy13]

He is our best CB by a mile. It is quite sad to see the unnecessary hate he receives from his own supporters.

 

[hubbuh]

He's good when he's doing things he's good at. Dominating aerially, outmuscling opposition, carrying the ball up the pitch. It's when we need him to be more flexible that it can fall apart. The best defenders (Rio, Vidic, Terry etc.) don't have really glaring weaknesses to their game. They adapt depending on the opposition and flow of the game. He isn't going to elevate us like van Dijk does but he can be part of a functioning and successful team.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

This is the weirdest thread on the site.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Is he the best CB we have? Yes

Is he worth £80m . No

 

[Volumiza]

I wish he was the absolute colossal beast that the caf thinks he is

I don't think anyone has described him as a colossal beast have they? I'm a Maguire fan but even I wouldn't describe him as that. He is however, far from the opposite. He is just a really good defender.