Lindelof better than Maguire? I QUIT reading there mate. Not saying he is Vidic or Bruce but surley he has more traits to him then the biggest defensive liability since Blanc?
When do we cut our losses on Maguire?
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
- Start date
I have never claimed that Maguire is "world class" or that he was worth a world record transfer fee. Quite the opposite, in fact.
So, that's where I'm coming from - to put it like that.
But if you want to argue that he's so underwhelming that we need to "cut our losses" on him, that should be backed up by more or less tangible, verifiable points.
Has he made our defence worse on the whole since his arrival?
How many goals have we shipped as a direct result of mistakes on his part?
How do those numbers compare to other players?
Gimme some data.
So, that's where I'm coming from - to put it like that.
But if you want to argue that he's so underwhelming that we need to "cut our losses" on him, that should be backed up by more or less tangible, verifiable points.
Has he made our defence worse on the whole since his arrival?
How many goals have we shipped as a direct result of mistakes on his part?
How do those numbers compare to other players?
Gimme some data.
I think some people feel that Maguire is not quick enough on the turn to play in a high line like how Ole wants us to play. Whether there is data that can back that up, I don't know, but it's a fair comment. Unfortunately, Maguire's skillset may not suit the style of play we are going for, and that's going to be hard for him to correct. It's not his fault, but I think it will remain the case while we wish to play with a high line.
deleted post: cba to carry on in the thread. Way too aggressive, way too polarising
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What rubbish. He plays every week because he’s our best centre back and way better than some on here are arguing.
By those standards a £90m midfielder would play every week regardless of form and that’s not happening is it?
The aggression is high in this thread. There’s some people who are going to look very silly in a few years I feel. I hope they are right & he becomes a lynchpin in a title winning team but I can’t see it.
I said he was better as a ball playing centre back. I think he is.
Nobody will look more daft than the creator of this thread. Don’t worry.
So I take it you’re a fan? Other than heading the ball clear & last ditch tackles, what is he good at?
he’s slow, clumsy, misplaces simple passes, boots the ball out of play all the time, dwells on the ball for way too long. He’s not a ball playing centre back, he’s a good old fashioned centre back.
Here’s hoping
No need to hope. It’s already impossible with dross you’ve come out with.So I take it you’re a fan? Other than heading the ball clear & last ditch tackles, what is he good at?
he’s slow, clumsy, misplaces simple passes, boots the ball out of play all the time, dwells on the ball for way too long. He’s not a ball playing centre back, he’s a good old fashioned centre back.
Here’s hoping
Yes he can head the ball well, at both ends. I know he’s not put many in for us but he’s a good focal point from corners. He’ll score goals for us no doubt.
He may not be the fastest player but I’m sure his lack of speed is massively exaggerated, same with his perceived clumsiness.
He is a good passer and does he misplace any more passes than any other centre back? I really don’t see that he does. And he does bring the ball out of defence pretty regularly and has a decent range of passing.
He’s so reliable too. Barely misses a minute of game time and from my perspective he puts in at least 7/10 performances pretty much every match,teams need clockwork players like that.
I know everyone’s opinion is different but I really rate him and believe he is more than good enough to play in pretty much any team, certainly in this league.
If he cost £50m no one would see him as a problem. The fact that he cost £80m doesn't make him one.
I don't think he's good enough to be the main centre back for a team challenging for the title. That is what you would expect for the money. The season before he arrived was an outlier in terms of goals conceded, below shows league goal conceded in the last 10 seasons. The season before he arrived was the worst and let's be honest, it was a terrible season all round. Average of around 40 goals conceded a season, so he's helped to retain the average.
2010–11 - 37
2011–12 - 33
2012–13 - 43
2013–14 - 43
2014–15 - 37
2015–16 - 35
2016–17 - 29
2017–18 - 28
2018–19 - 54
2019–20 - 36
PL website has him at 34 clean sheets in 147 matches, at Utd 13 in 38 last season. So a 1 in 3 clean sheet ratio. They also have him as only ever having made 2 errors that led to goals, I don't know how they judge that because he was at fault for a least 2 goals in the Spurs game, but this season he's down as having only 1 error. So go figure.
I like the Cahill comparison. Good English centre back, not world class but next to a world class centre back (Terry) Cahill was pretty good. Good enough to win a title, so Maguire could be a title winning centeback. The problem is that we want Maguire to be our Terry, the world class defender of the pair. However Maguire just isnt that good.
I do like his fitness, it is great to finally have a duo that isnt injured all the time. Maybe because Maguire and Lindelod are playing together for a long period they can build a great partnership between them that it makes up for neither of them being a world class centreback.
Joe Gomez is good enough to be starting centre back for title winner Liverpool, and Maguire who is in higher pecking order over him in national team for years is not? You think Pep wanted him without knowing that fact?
It’s not coincidence and not the first time Pep has the idea playing a natural CDM in CB role. That was part of the reason why Pep signed Mascherano and he became his centre back when his captain Puyol was unavailable.
I can’t keep wasting my time trying to tell you again that I don’t give a feck about transfer fees and backup signing. In your logic Ake & Chygrinski are starting XI signing but Pique is backup based on transfer fees, but the reality price don’t matter.
And Dias hasn’t been considered as failure either, so point still stands only Benatia & Stones consider as failure.
As a error-prone centerback, he is also too slow. As a slow centerback, he is also too error-prone. In top flights you can't afford to hav a starting centerback who is slow and error-prone at the same time.
So he’s slow and error prone then?
I'd be looking to rotate Maguire and Lindelof with a better cb too tbh. There's definitely games when his aerial presence is really, really valuable especially with De Gea. They're the kind of games Lindelof would struggle in too. I think Lindelof can be great at times. Especially in Europe where a Calvert Lewin is a lot less common. Both would be very good next to a better cb. Hell just staying fit is worth its weight in gold for us. Both have weaknesses that can be exploited so you wouldn't want either to be guaranteed first choice starters against every team either though imo.
I've no problem with your opinions about Maguire even if I totally disagree with you on almost every point. It's the way you put your views forward starting with the title of your thread "When do we cut our losses" It's no coincidence there are posters (not only me) who want the thread locked.So I take it you’re a fan? Other than heading the ball clear & last ditch tackles, what is he good at?
he’s slow, clumsy, misplaces simple passes, boots the ball out of play all the time, dwells on the ball for way too long. He’s not a ball playing centre back, he’s a good old fashioned centre back.
Here’s hoping
I never said anything about the fee being the main driver in determining squad status. My point was, you don't pay 25m for a defender from a Ukraine team to use as backup for one year, he was clearly identified as a player with potential and they were completely wrong. He was sent packing a year later, that is a failure.
For whatever reason you are choosing to completely ignore Chygrinski as a bad signing, he is actually the worst one of the lot.
Your logic to say it was right to sign a player because someone else wanted him is wrong, especially when that someone else has a terrible track record when it come to signing that type of player.
I'll ask you again, maybe you can answer it this time. Because this is the same logic and reasoning you are using to justify the transfer.
Would you buy a car or anything else you wanted just because someone else wanted the same thing. Even if most of the cars/similar stuff they had bought previously were already on the scrap heap?
Don’t keep talking about the fees then. It’s not Pep who make the decision regarding the transfer fees. He wanted backup, Chygrinski was the backup signing. Barcelona board, scouts & negotiators negotiated the fees, it’s their problem which something irrelevant here.
Again, there is no terrible record when it’s only 2 failures so far for his regular centre back signings.
Your question is so irrelevant but just to suit your argument. We signed Maguire not because Pep wanted him but because Ole believes he’s good enough for our rebuilding project. Pep wanted him not because Ole wants him but because Pep believes he’s good enough for his team. And both managers’s belief are logical because Maguire is currently better than Joe Gomez. It has nothing to do with reason of someone else wanted the player, irrelevant question.
We’re not winning a league title before Harry ages out. I’m a huge fan of his. But we are 5 years away from challenging.
Probably up there with the Ole out thread in how to embarrasse us as a spoilt impatient fan base.
These times are truly testing my meaning as a Man Utd fan! Once it was about something else. And we sure as hell had to read before allowed an opinion!
These times are truly testing my meaning as a Man Utd fan! Once it was about something else. And we sure as hell had to read before allowed an opinion!
Schmeichel's Cartwheel is clearly an attention seeking WUM... you can tell he's revelling in all this nonsense... i'll guarantee he's never been through the times when we were truly bad and had some truly awful players..
Only irrelevant if you think your original post regarding Pep and Maguire is wrong.
I stick to my point, your logic is way off and your wrong about Pep's track record with defensive signings, he's had more than 2 failures with centre backs, your deliberately excluding at least one player to suit yourself. You tried to use a midfielder coverted out of necessity (Mascherano), a defender who has only played one full season (Laporte) and another who has only played a handful of games for City this season (Dias) to say he made good ones, shows that you were clutching at straws to prove your logic.
Might wanna check that out @Cassidy, they finished 3 places below us in 2018-19 yet conceded 6 fewer goals
The following year it was United who had Maguire and conceded 5 less than Leicester. That’s an 11 goal swing in Maguire’s favour from one season to the next.
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Do we play a high line? I don't think Maguire suffers when there is space in behind him. His top speed isn't bad. His acceleration and complete lack of agility is the greatest concern, and that is often at its most crucial in and around the box. Attacking players must find it too easy to dribble past him or turn him on his wrong foot. If he had brilliant anticipation and reading of the game, it could be made up for. Vidic was not particularly good one on one if dragged out of position. However, he had an extremely agile and quick left back that would cover for him, and if that failed he had Rio, and should that nor work, there would be Carrick. I just don't see Maguire having much of a safety net. When he is dribbled past, which happens too frequently, Shaw is nowhere to be seen, and Lindelof is somewhere; if Fred and McTominay both play, there is some protection there. Maguire needs a safety net, but so do most defenders. I'm just not sure that he has enough upsides to his game to make up for it...
I was born in 1993, so yes, these last few years have been the worst I’ve seen it.
It’s not a WUM thread. I don’t think he’s good enough. Most United fans i know don’t rate him either.
It is clearly a WUM thread - nobody who watches football could seriously post this shit.
What makes him fantastic? I've yet to see anything that suggests he's anything more than slightly-above-average.
I would take 60 million in a heartbeat for him. It won't happen, but I would - think he's been a massive disappointment.
This whole thread is a car crash. He will captain England and United for a long time. Get used to it.
He's nowhere. fecking. near. as bad as people make out here.
He has his weaknesses just like every other CB out there. Look how many errors VVD has made.
Prime example of people viewing a player through the price we paid for them. United overpay for everybody, since forever, with the exception of Bruno.
He's nowhere. fecking. near. as bad as people make out here.
He has his weaknesses just like every other CB out there. Look how many errors VVD has made.
Prime example of people viewing a player through the price we paid for them. United overpay for everybody, since forever, with the exception of Bruno.
Just because someone has a different opinion doesn't make it a wind up ffs.
When it is this egregious it does ‘ffs’
Of all the shit at the club this is what he picks on
What more is there to say about a Jones, Lingard etc? Maguire is an interesting player to discuss, large fee, captain, spell of shakey form.When it is this egregious it does ‘ffs’
Of all the shit at the club this is what he picks on
I'm not at cutting our losses, (even if we tried we are never getting anything close back) but hes a record signing and his form can be all over the place. Just like Pogba, big fees mean big expectations and neither have justified them.
Great news you aren’t as delusional as OP. He was in Shakey form for about 3 games this season.
He’s a very good CB who will be here for a long time. Not his fault our awfully run club (main issue here) paid over the odds.
Awful thread let’s move on.
Lindelof is weak and lacks pace. I personally don’t think he’s better than Maguire and his game would work much better in Europe.
The issue we have is both our CBs have the same weakness which is lack of pace. That’s poor recruitment not to work that one out when Maguire was signed.
The issue we have is both our CBs have the same weakness which is lack of pace. That’s poor recruitment not to work that one out when Maguire was signed.
You only need to watch this to see he clearly can play the ball, hell anyone that watches us can see he can. He is slow and he is a bit prone to errors, but it’s false to say he can’t play the ball.
It really is time to put an end to the thought that Lindelof is our best central defender. He is not. Maguire is. And it's not even close. I've already posted (several times) the numbers from last year that showed Maguire was closer to VVD than Lindelof. Here are the numbers from this year. Keep in mind that our entire team was horrible the first 3 games, and Lindelof was fortunate enough to not be involved in the Tottenham fiasco (because he was the worst in the previous matches and got the pull). So here are the numbers
----------------Tks---Bks----Int----Clr---HdClr---Rcv---DW--DL--ABW---ABL---Pass %----LB----KP
Maguire-----4------4------16----31----22--------51------49---18----37-------6--------87.9-----4.5---.3
Lindelof-----4------0-------8-----28-----8---------47------18---19----11------13-------90.7-----2.5----.3
Legend: Tks=Tackles Bks=Blocks Int=Interceptions Clr=Clearances HdClr=Headed Clearances Rcv=Recoveries DW=Duals Won DL=Duals Lost ABW=Aerial Battles Won ABL=Aerial Battles Lost LB=Long Ball KP=Key Passes
Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League
Victor Lindelöf Statistics | Premier League
Harry Maguire Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
Victor Lindelöf Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
So those are this years numbers. Here are last years numbers which also include one Virgil Van Dijk
------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50
Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost
https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
Now I'm sure there are enough people with an agenda who still think Maguire set his own price and let that effect their opinion of him. There are also several on here who can't think for themselves and just repeat whatever Mark Goldbridge says. But when you look at the facts, and these stats are indeed the facts, you will quickly realize that Maguire isn't just our best central defender, but it isn't even close...
----------------Tks---Bks----Int----Clr---HdClr---Rcv---DW--DL--ABW---ABL---Pass %----LB----KP
Maguire-----4------4------16----31----22--------51------49---18----37-------6--------87.9-----4.5---.3
Lindelof-----4------0-------8-----28-----8---------47------18---19----11------13-------90.7-----2.5----.3
Legend: Tks=Tackles Bks=Blocks Int=Interceptions Clr=Clearances HdClr=Headed Clearances Rcv=Recoveries DW=Duals Won DL=Duals Lost ABW=Aerial Battles Won ABL=Aerial Battles Lost LB=Long Ball KP=Key Passes
Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League
Victor Lindelöf Statistics | Premier League
Harry Maguire Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
Victor Lindelöf Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
So those are this years numbers. Here are last years numbers which also include one Virgil Van Dijk
------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50
Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost
https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
Now I'm sure there are enough people with an agenda who still think Maguire set his own price and let that effect their opinion of him. There are also several on here who can't think for themselves and just repeat whatever Mark Goldbridge says. But when you look at the facts, and these stats are indeed the facts, you will quickly realize that Maguire isn't just our best central defender, but it isn't even close...