Himannv
Full Member
He'll get the ban and fine obviously. Not much more to say about it. He obviously didn't mean it in a malicious way, but there's no getting around this sort of thing, especially in the current climate.
Basically yes, because once it's on Instagram he's not just saying it to his mates, he's shouting it out in front of his 7.8 million followers and it's not an English standard, it's an international standard.That's his social media. It's his friend. You want to censor it because of english standard? To a non english speaking person?
My wife calls me that way
with tears in her eyes
Have you considered re-introducing oranges into your relationship?My wife calls me that way
with tears in her eyes
As some have said, if it was a conversation with a friend then they would have no jurisdiction , they wouldn't even know about it. But he said it publicly on IG and he has 7.8 million followers, so they would probably seeing it as brining the game into disrepute.Even if for the sake of argument we go with the assumption that Cavani used a racist term,
How does this come under the FA's jurisdiction? Not during a game, on the pitch, or anybFA regulated environment.
They surely shouldn't have a say in the personal lives and conversation between two friends completely independent of the FA ecosystem.
Thoughts?
Do what, exactly? Speak in his language? It's far more straightforward than the culture being different, it's the language that is different. By bringing culture into this, some people will think the line of "defence" for Cavani is that his culture is more easy-going with racism - which it may be, or not, I wouldn't know, but this certainly is not a reflection of that.Reading into it, it seems that the culture is different and not considered an insult. My only problem is that there is no way he doesn't know you can't do that in English culture
And multi-lingual, and English is not yet the official language of the world.Basically yes, because once it's on Instagram he's not just saying it to his mates, he's shouting it out in front of his 7.8 million followers and it's not an English standard, it's an international standard.
To compare this to the Suarez/Evra incident, as some have is ridiculous, Suarez's comments were found to have been purposefully derogatory, Cavani's clearly are not. But Instagram is an international public platform and if people find it offensive, which I understand, then I'm afraid it needs to be called out and dealt with as publicly as it was posted. Cavani is not an idiot, if he had thought for just a moment about what he was writing he probably could and would have said something else.
If Harry Maguire had posted "thank you my black friend" on instagram about a black fan he would be being investigated too. It's embarrassing that this is being dragged down to the idea that the problem is English speaking people are too dumb to understand that negrito isn't a synonym for nigger. That isn't the problem with what Cavani did.And multi-lingual, and English is not yet the official language of the world.
You're saying that because a significant number of people are thick enough to assume without looking that negro, a Spanish/Portuguese word, is the same as nigger, an English word, we need to call out on it? Give it a break.
He definitely needs to learn what is acceptable, and given the swift removal of his post, he likely has taken it onboard. But it's ridiculous to say that he's uneducated, particularly as he's living in a new country, and likely not familiar with the language and customs. Language is a tricky thing. My ex is Venezuelan and everybody in Venezuela uses the word 'coño', and it's not considered particularly offensive. So one day I was teaching a class with Spanish students in it and was bantering with them in a mixture of English and Spanish and said that word. My Spanish student was horrified, and let me know that I should never say that word (basically it's the Spanish C-word, which I had never realized before that.) I certainly don't think it was a problem of my being uneducated - I just didn't know. Anyway, I thanked her for telling me, and I've never said it again around anyone who isn't Venezuelan. Hopefully, it'll be the same for Cavani. I do think a 3 game ban is a bit harsh.Most likely take some form of action given how hot the country is on any form of racial behaviour now. Very idiotic thing to say. doesn’t matter if it is acceptable in your culture, you can’t be that uneducated to know this isn’t the correct thing to say.
Do you even know if his friend his black? It may, or it may not be.If Harry Maguire had posted "thank you my black friend" on instagram about a black fan he would be being investigated too. It's embarrassing that this is being dragged down to the idea that the problem is English speaking people are too dumb to understand that negrito isn't a synonym for nigger. That isn't the problem with what Cavani did.
In a very sensitive thread, this has to be the most idiotic fecking post in here. Absolute shit.If i have a good mate who is being a bit stingy with money, not paying for his round of beers. If i go on to jokingly tell him to stop being such a jew. Does that mean I hate jews? I would argue that is quite different then yelling fecking jew to someone who is actually Jewish. Not saying Cavani is right or wrong here, simply trying to make an argument that context can make a difference
I disagree. I don't see how Cavani's act can be equated to racism even if non-malicious or ignorant. Silva used a racist and colonial era cartoon from marketing. You may want to diminish the seriousness of it by assuming it was actual ignorance, lack of sensitivity, not with malicious intent, etc. But it was definitely a stupid thing, and I find it undoubtedly racist.The comparison to Bernardo Silva is much more accurate (in reality Silva's was worse) and Cavani probably should get the same punishment. It wasn't meant negatively but it was stupid. Unfortunately the media is going to blow this up to being the same as Suarez and the FA will fold and give him a much worse punishment.
No. I want to ban people from qualifying their terms of endearment based on race. In all languages.You want to ban a Spanish word from common use because it sounds relatively similar to an offensive word in English. That's not only indefensible from a logical point of view, it's also extremely patronizing for hundreds of millions of people.
Or perhaps it's the context of the usage of those words that is problematic, not the words themselves? It's not rocket science to spot the difference between referring to black people in a generic sense and saying "thank you my black friend". Why would you need to qualify that your friend is black?How should we Portuguese do? Stop referring to black people all together? We can't use the word preto because we're not racists, we can't use the word negro because you think it's offensive. Perhaps we should create a new word to accomodate your anglo-centric sensibility.
Do you even know if his friend his black? It may, or it may not be.
My point is that the term is not even used specifically for the race.
Edinson wasn’t bantering ffs. It is a term of endearment. The fact that he posted his mate’s congratulations on his own account shows that they are close friends, furthering the point that this word in Uruguay, weird as it may sound, is a good word to use to close friends.What? i was talking about context, as it does actually matter.
Not sure why I triggered such a response but thanks for the education on things I didn't know. With that being said, I do find it hard to believe that he didn't know that the English come down hard on that word. Not one ounce of me thinks he was being racist. But I'm also pretty sure that he would have known about his country man who got in trouble for using that word before. Mind you, I'm pretty sure Suarez probably said "f*cking" before the N Bomb and that takes it into a whole different territoryDo what, exactly? Speak in his language? It's far more straightforward than the culture being different, it's the language that is different. By bringing culture into this, some people will think the line of "defence" for Cavani is that his culture is more easy-going with racism - which it may be, or not, I wouldn't know, but this certainly is not a reflection of that.
If you overhear two Portuguese speaking in London about a black person they will be using the word negro unless they're racists, in which case they'll be using the word preto - the literal translation for the color black, but a pejorative term used mostly by the ones who still refuse to accept decolonization. That's how it is around here. Negro and preto are synonimous when refering to colors (with preto much more common in daily parlance), but if refering to race preto is an insult and negro is not.
Even though the issue here is the Spanish language, I think it's pretty analogous. It was discussed to death during the Suarez saga. I seem to remember him trying to use the defence of negro not being an insult in his language, which I thought was a decent defence if the issue was solely about the word use, which in his case it seemed it wasn't.
At the time I did imagine how easily a Portuguese with a basic understanding of English but no deep understanding of culture could be caught inadvertendly calling or refering to someone a "nigga/nigger" for wrongly assuming that, being a more similar word, it would also be the correct way to say it in English. I presume you're kind of hinting that Cavani should know this by now, but this is not a translation issue at all. He's not talking in English, he's probably not even thinking in English terms, which makes your assertion a bit ridiculous in my opinion. It seems many in this thread, and arguably in the FA and all over the webs, are just being ignorant.
Cavani already gave in by deleting the tweet, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised he ends up paying some kind of fine. Because we live in an increasingly stupid world, and it will be the simplest way to solve the "problem".
Sadly ironic that with racists running rampant, electing tyrants and voting for xenophobia in referenduns, people in positions of responsibility are stirring up innane discussions. This is isn't even about complex nuances, it's just stupid.
A good black friend. Now question why you would want to qualify a compliment by race and you start to see the problem.However, if for example Bernardo Silva got a ban for simply comparing Mendy to the character on the cereal box, which imo was just light-hearted banter, then I suppose in the name of consistency, Cavani will get a ban too. He shouldn’t though, as he used the term how it’s supposed to be used in Uruguay as a friendly way to address a good friend.
Holy shit, please don't do this. It's fecking moronic. Not accepting something because it is acceptable in another country isn't racist. Would you be applying that appealing logic to countries where the working day is 18 hours long or where female genital mutilation is currently acceptable?If the FA do fine and ban him though, then they are more racist than Cavani, who isn’t at all, for not embracing cultural differences in Cavani’s bloody home country. It had to be said.
A misinformed, shit analogy at the least, and a ban worthy post at most.If i have a good mate who is being a bit stingy with money, not paying for his round of beers. If i go on to jokingly tell him to stop being such a jew. Does that mean I hate jews? I would argue that is quite different then yelling fecking jew to someone who is actually Jewish. Not saying Cavani is right or wrong here, simply trying to make an argument that context can make a difference
Do you have any idea how entitled and oppressive that idea is? I might even agree that there might be a benefit to that, I'll leave that to people who study racism and it's origins/consequences better than me. I certainly do not think that attitude is best.No. I want to ban people from qualifying their terms of endearment based on race. In all languages.
Except he didn't say "thank you my black friend", you're the one making a literal translation.Or perhaps it's the context of the usage of those words that is problematic, not the words themselves? It's not rocket science to spot the difference between referring to black people in a generic sense and saying "thank you my black friend". Why would you need to qualify that your friend is black?
I don't mean to say the color of his friend is relevant in deciding whether the expression is racist or not. Was just illustrating that it isn't necessarily a term of endearment "based on race". In Portuguese it's not a term of endearment at all, so there's that extra-complexity in the Spanish version of it.
We "ban" it in football already. I'm okay with it.Do you have any idea how entitled and oppressive that idea is? I might even agree that there might be a benefit to that, I'll leave that to people who study racism and it's origins/consequences better than me. I'm certain that going
See below. How the word is used culturally doesn't give it a free pass.Except he didn't say "thank you my black friend", you're the one making a literal translation.
I don't mean to say the color of his friend is relevant in deciding whether the expression is racist or not. Was just illustrating that it isn't necessarily a term "based on race".
And again you've missed the point that whether you use it towards a white person or a black person doesn't matter, using racially based terms of endearment has no place here. The word literally derives from "little black man", Spanish isn't short of synonyms for friend, using racially derived ones is a choice.My point is that the term is not even used specifically for the race.
You have to understand why we've developed the sensitivity right?Amazing that this is considered racist...
You didn't trigger it specifically, you were just the last post written before I replied with a common idea in the thread. Meant to adress the point at large, not you.Not sure why I triggered such a response but thanks for the education on things I didn't know. With that being said, I do find it hard to believe that he didn't know that the English come down hard on that word. Not one ounce of me thinks he was being racist. But I'm also pretty sure that he would have known about his country man who got in trouble for using that word before. Mind you, I'm pretty sure Suarez probably said "f*cking" before the N Bomb and that takes it into a whole different territory
One might ask whether it's appropriate for you to have written that word out in full, rather than using the more generally accepted 'n-word'. I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, but there have been recent examples of academics getting in trouble for even saying the word in the course of an academic discussion. A colleague at my work recently got in major trouble for quoting verbatim a Turkish student who used that word.If Harry Maguire had posted "thank you my black friend" on instagram about a black fan he would be being investigated too. It's embarrassing that this is being dragged down to the idea that the problem is English speaking people are too dumb to understand that negrito isn't a synonym for nigger. That isn't the problem with what Cavani did.
And what's the relevant of it's literal meaning? Stop doing litteral translations as they're innane and ridiculous. "Thank you my black friend", whether racist or not, is a ridiculous way of expression (think "thank you my tall [or whatever adjective] friend"), so you're already placing a bias in the way the phrase sound. "Little black man" already sounds far more demaning in English than negrito (or any other word ended in -ito) sounds in a latin language. "-ito" s far more complex than "little" or "small".And again you've missed the point that whether you use it towards a white person or a black person doesn't matter, using racially based terms of endearment has no place here. The word literally derives from "little black man".
I work in academia, when discussing the word itself it's spelled out in full, when discussing usages of the word it's contracted to avoid repeating it in that context. I'm sure Redcafe have a stance on the word, but if they were against it being spelled out in an academic discussion I suggest it be added to the profanity filter.One might ask whether it's appropriate for you to have written that word out in full, rather than using the more generally accepted 'n-word'. I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, but there have been recent examples of academics getting in trouble for even saying the word in the course of an academic discussion. A colleague at my work recently got in major trouble for quoting verbatim a Turkish student who used that word.
Another one to add to a long list of shit analogies in this thread. You just compared hard labour and genital mutilation to what is essentially a term of endearment in Cavani’s home country. Well fecking done pal This is as bad as the guy in page 10 calling Jews stingy.A good black friend. Now question why you would want to qualify a compliment by race and you start to see the problem.
Holy shit, please don't do this. It's fecking moronic. Not accepting something because it is acceptable in another country isn't racist. Would you be applying that appealing logic to countries where the working day is 18 hours long or where female genital mutilation is currently acceptable?
"Cultural differences" can range from choice of primary carbohydrate to whether you believe people of a certain ethnic group have a right to exist. It's not grounds to accept anything on its own.
Indeed, your last point is the key here.And what's the relevant of it's literal meaning? Stop doing litteral translations as they're innane and ridiculous. "Thank you my black friend", whether racist or not, is a ridiculous way of expression (think "thank you my tall [or whatever adjective] friend"), so you're already placing a bias in the way the phrase sound. "Little black man" already sounds far more demaning in English than negrito (or any other word ended in -ito) sounds in a latin language. "-ito" s far more complex than "little" or "small".
Language, meaning and culture are far more complex than google translate.