We are an awfully coached team

rotherham_red said:
I agree to an extent. I am backing Ole to the hilt for success, and have been one of his most ardent supporters on here, but he deserved criticism for the Fred situation. Much like Rafa's red card v Bayern, everyone could see it coming from a mile away. Everyone, that is, except the player and the manager. It's shit and shit happens, but tbh, I don't actually think it cost us too much in terms of our rhythm and overall foothold in the game. We still created chances and we had enough to have at least drawn the game.

I do feel for Martial. He's usually ice cold in those situations, but he's going through a rut. However, on balance, you might well be right.
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I just think he is a wide man who cuts in to score. Don't think the pressure is the same as being a main CF, who your team is relying on to score. A wide man scoring is a lovely bonus, but only if you also have a CF banging in the goals.
 
big rons sovereign said:
Honestly, this place. I see that all the dagger wielding ole out brigade are back. Notably absent since Sunday.
I swear if he'd subbed fred for matic and the midfield was overrun he'd be getting hammered for that.
Seems he was also expected to sub out half the team at 60 mins whilst we were completely on top.
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The score was 1-1 mate. So no, we were level, and we were not on top.
 
I thought Fred was sent off after we conceded the second goal?
 
There are three major points from yesterday and in general about Utd this season.

1) Players not taking away shots early on. Yesterday Bruno had a great chance to have a strike on volley, but he tried to pass it to Rashford, Similarly Rashford had at least two chances to take a shot in the second half when we were countering, both times he tried to get inside on his left and eventually the chance was wasted.

2) Next point is poor finishing mostly from Martial, Greenwood and then Rashford which has resulted in us drawing or losing several games where we could have won.

3) Lastly one thing that is common in our style of play is, we rarely create chances when we are dominating possession, as we are slowly passing the ball from one side to another, eventually the ball is passed to Wan Bissaka who cheaply gives away the ball and the whole move is ruined. Most of our chances are when other team is attacking and we break on counters. Even yesterday we had a good spell in the first half but the OG was fortunate. Second half PSG attacked and we created several chances on the counter attacks.

The same pattern was evident against Arsenal, Chelsea and Besiktas, where these teams came to defend and we rarely created many opportunities.

Bonus point specific to yesterday:
Our substitutions were all wrong, despite seeing PSG had trouble against Rashford and Martial because of how quick they are and could be played in behind with Cavani holding the ball. Ole took off Cavani and Martial, resulting in lack of hold up play or the ability to run in behind the opposition. Instead our mind boggling tactic was to lump it forward with Greenwood as a striker against their two CBs, which he had to rectify by pushing Maguire and then sending Ighalo on.

Furthermore, I told myself that VDB/Matic will come on at half time for Fred as he was a red card waiting to happen, not only because as a player his style results in making challenges and him being clumsy in possession, but also as they targeted him and knew they could rattle him.

I am still baffled why when fans could see he should have been hooked at half time, whereas our manager with soo much experience makes these rookie mistakes, and now we us going out is a real possibility despite actually performing well throughout the campaign and having a very capable squad.
 
United has some good and some very good players.
But we continue to play like a group of individuals. The sum of the parts is not greater than the individuals.
Our defence is a classic example.
Individually good. But as a defensive unit not good.
Teams find it far too easy to penetrate our defence and score too many goals.
And another big problem is the lack of game management.
So yes definitely. A badly coached team.
And that is precisely why we are unable to win anything.
Because we get mugged by teams far better coached.
 
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big rons sovereign said:
Oh right, you can only be on top when winning. Gotcha. Silly me.
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I mean, yeah that's right, in any way that actually matters. But if I stop being pedantic -- my point is that even if we were "on top" at that moment, lets say in the 60th minute, if you observe that some of the players look exhausted and are walking and making uncharacteristic errors (Bruno), maybe a change is in order if you want us to remain "on top."
 
macheda14 said:
We had the far better chances and were controlling the game. So yes, we were on top.
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I was being a bit of a prick, I admit. And I apologize. I haven't been that angry and frustrated with a result in a long time. I just f'ing loath so many in that PSG team. Neymar is incredible, Veratti is extremely good, but yet they just constantly try to get people sent off. I know we have players that do the exact same thing but for some reason it just PSG infuriates me.

But I swear I was screaming to make a change since, to my admittedly untrained eye, there were multiple lads out there who looked exhausted, even if we were creating chances. Then we concede such a shit goal, Fred gets sent off immediately, and toys were thrown and knees were jerked.
 
Fahad Jawaid said:
There are three major points from yesterday and in general about Utd this season.

1) Players not taking away shots early on. Yesterday Bruno had a great chance to have a strike on volley, but he tried to pass it to Rashford, Similarly Rashford had at least two chances to take a shot in the second half when we were countering, both times he tried to get inside on his left and eventually the chance was wasted.

2) Next point is poor finishing mostly from Martial, Greenwood and then Rashford which has resulted in us drawing or losing several games where we could have won.

3) Lastly one thing that is common in our style of play is, we rarely create chances when we are dominating possession, as we are slowly passing the ball from one side to another, eventually the ball is passed to Wan Bissaka who cheaply gives away the ball and the whole move is ruined. Most of our chances are when other team is attacking and we break on counters. Even yesterday we had a good spell in the first half but the OG was fortunate. Second half PSG attacked and we created several chances on the counter attacks.

The same pattern was evident against Arsenal, Chelsea and Besiktas, where these teams came to defend and we rarely created many opportunities.

Bonus point specific to yesterday:
Our substitutions were all wrong, despite seeing PSG had trouble against Rashford and Martial because of how quick they are and could be played in behind with Cavani holding the ball. Ole took off Cavani and Martial, resulting in lack of hold up play or the ability to run in behind the opposition. Instead our mind boggling tactic was to lump it forward with Greenwood as a striker against their two CBs, which he had to rectify by pushing Maguire and then sending Ighalo on.

Furthermore, I told myself that VDB/Matic will come on at half time for Fred as he was a red card waiting to happen, not only because as a player his style results in making challenges and him being clumsy in possession, but also as they targeted him and knew they could rattle him.

I am still baffled why when fans could see he should have been hooked at half time, whereas our manager with soo much experience makes these rookie mistakes, and now we us going out is a real possibility despite actually performing well throughout the campaign and having a very capable squad.
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You make some fair points but I dont agree with this idea of Ole should of hooked fred at half time, I will.explain why.

First things first he didn't hook him at half time and in the first 15 or so minutes of the second half we were in charge and made 2 or 3 very good chances that we should of buried. Somewhat thanks to Fred's good work in the midfield. If we had buried those chances got ourselves a lead than fred would of been subbed I believe.

He took a risk in leaving fred on and it should of paid off but thanks to some poor finishing it didn't.

My other point is whoever could of came on at half time for him would of weakened our performance I believe I think it would of left us unbalanced one way or another and we would of ended up either to open or to restricted.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and it's very easy to say after the event that Ole got it wrong, but would we be saying it had we taken our chances (which we really should off) it's not ole fault martial and co couldn't put the ball in the net.
 
We have beaten Leipzig once and have one victory and one defeat against PSG, in the ECL. That tells us that we mostly are greatly coached.
 
mancave bear said:
We have beaten Leipzig once and have one victory and one defeat against PSG, in the ECL. That tells us that we mostly are greatly coached.
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And we were made to look like turkeys in Turkey. We are not a greatly coached team by any stretch of the imagination. If we were then we would not have been so open against PSG. We would not even have started with three forwards at all. We never used strength in the air against them until the last minute. We would have been more clinical in our corners.
 
Are we coached?, like do we actually do set pieces, attacking and defensive plays in training? Watching this makes me question it all.
 
Idxomer said:
Yep, those corners have nothing to do with coaching.
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Hey buddy, don't you remember we beat Southampton? How dare you criticise the coaching staff? It's not like every week we play as if the players have trained with each for the first time.
 
Another half and another example of a poorly coached team coming out with bad tactics.

How many corners do we need to concede before we wise up? Absolutely shocking.

Players to blame as well but buck stops with the manager in this game. Love you Ole, but time to go!
 
Those corners has nothing to do with our coaching. That shit passing has nothing to do with coaching. That inability to beat a press has nothing to do with coaching. That inability to play the defensive line to avoid being onside has nothing to do with coaching.

What else?
 
We play too low, if we play that low we need 3 defensive midfielders. Pogba and McTominay are not good enough to empower the front four.
 
Seriously, what the feck do we do in training?!

We sit so deep and then when we get the ball, everyone stands still and stares at each other. fecking move!!
 
Maybe this time Carrick, Phelan, McKenna will get fired as well as the manager. 2/3 have been through every failure manager so either they do nothing or they make it worse but never accountable because 'understand utd' and all that
 
David freakin Moyes is a better coach than our current one and he's the definition of midtable quality. Go figure!
 
We definitely don't practice defensive or attacking corners anyway
 
On one of the early versions of pro evo soccer you would give corners away on purpose as the game AI would leave the opposition ridiculously vulnerable on the counter...this is now real life. What a time to be alive.
 
Zero clue about what to do when in possession. Poor movement, poor passing, lack of awareness of teammates, unable to beat simple press. We are losing 1-0 against a David Moyes team, yeah, we are an awfully coached team.
 
We are a team of individuals and individual moments. No style, no pattern.

Shit one game good the next.
 
Arka_BleedingRed said:
Zero clue about what to do when in possession. Poor movement, poor passing, lack of awareness of teammates, unable to beat simple press. We are losing 1-0 against a David Moyes team, yeah, we are an awfully coached team.
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Do we actually have any recognised coaches who have been successful elsewhere? I can't think of anyone we couldn't do without?

I am not counting Phelan he had much better around him previously.
 
Looks like we are reverting to our favourite most used tactic that is to pass it to Bruno and hope we get a penalty.
 
It's not the first time the team faced WHU with no plan what to do in either defense or attack.

Last season at home, we've barely had an attack all game.
 
Idxomer said:
It's not the first time the team faced WHU with no plan what to do in either defense or attack.

Last season at home, we've barely had an attack all game.
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That is the case in half of the games, especially without Bruno
 
Just look at the structure, we are abnormal team

7 Central Midfielders no matter DM CM or AMF
Fred
Matic
Pogba
McTominay
Van deBaek
Mata
Lingard

Would you believe it ? Seven !!

and again none natural winger, natural like David Beckham who just delivery the ball into the box.

and just one natural striker, Cavani

and with the coach team, McKenna, Carrick and Ole. No experience no tactics, in the end we get no win. Pass too much, just look at what Sir Alex dictates his player in pass. No matter what they should delivery the ball into the box to the striker.

Now what we see in this beloved club, pass pass and pass and loss the ball. Not delivery the ball into the ball anymore.
 
Some fan on here the other night stated that utd had a good defence. I said ole plays 2 dms as he did not trust defence.

i hope that fan is watching tonight. We are being cut open by west ham continuously. A 4-5-1 west ham.

Anyone who feels this defence are good enough to compete for honours, are sadly mistaken
 
thesheriffjw said:
Some fan on here the other night stated that utd had a good defence. I said ole plays 2 dms as he did not trust defence.

i hope that fan is watching tonight. We are being cut open by west ham continuously. A 4-5-1 west ham.

Anyone who feels this defence are good enough to compete for honours, are sadly mistaken
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The only DM in the first half was McT, Pogba and VDB was adventurous.

2nd half Bruno added some bite to the midfield, still with 1 DM.

Only difference is Lindelof and Maguire stepped up to win the ball early.

What game you were watching.
 
thesheriffjw said:
Some fan on here the other night stated that utd had a good defence. I said ole plays 2 dms as he did not trust defence.

i hope that fan is watching tonight. We are being cut open by west ham continuously. A 4-5-1 west ham.

Anyone who feels this defence are good enough to compete for honours, are sadly mistaken
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The defence terrifies me.
Their goal tonight was identical to the other night. Set piece. A joke
 
thesheriffjw said:
Some fan on here the other night stated that utd had a good defence. I said ole plays 2 dms as he did not trust defence.

i hope that fan is watching tonight. We are being cut open by west ham continuously. A 4-5-1 west ham.

Anyone who feels this defence are good enough to compete for honours, are sadly mistaken
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No doubt we need reinforcements in defense. We need a new fast fullback, as well as a CDM.
 
If people didn't think this United team is badly coached this game surely changes your mind..
 
I’m gonna be honest, I really don’t see what Ole brings to United as a coach or manager. You still don’t have a style of play besides sitting back on the counter against stronger teams and apart from Bruno his signings are pretty terrible. It’s no wonder why Ed isn’t so quick to spend the cash.

I feel like he is taking you lot backwards. They say the table doesn’t lie but yet no matter how bad you guys have been you could still be Only 2 points behind the lead. That’s crazy.

In a world where you didn’t have Bruno, Ole would almost certainly have been fired and you would be in 6-8 positions.
 
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