what was it you were saying?
Trust in defence? There is none and thats why hes played 7 tonight
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Trust in defence? There is none and thats why hes played 7 tonight
Bruno bailing Ole out game after game is the only reason he's still in this job. Does not have a clue. I'm watching this team game after game and it's the same errors all the time.
And why on earth is he so defensively set up for this game? We continue to concede away from home in the first half, it's obvious we'll need to score, yet the only attacking players we have is Bruno Rashford and Greenwood????
We aren't coached at all
tactics? What tactics ? We don't need oneI think there's a plan for each match. But no contingency, no ability to quickly adapt. And more often than not, against decent sides, the plan is to win on the counter.
I appreciate it's a tough match and we'd do well to get a point, let alone win (they were by far the better side in the home fixture until we scored, we looked clueless) - but the way we've played inexcusable.
And we're up against a team that plays like a team.
I appreciate it's a tough match and we'd do well to get a point, let alone win (they were by far the better side in the home fixture until we scored, we looked clueless) - but the way we've played inexcusable.
And we're up against a team that plays like a team.
RB Leipzig's players aren't nearly the same quality as ours and they look 50x the team. Please stop with this nonsense. The guy needs to go, but he won't cause there is enough support from fans who will go over the top in comeback wins against West Ham etc.
I've said it before, people need to really assess if any of these wins etc. are sustainable and actual signs of progress. We don't look any different or better a team since he came in.
I've said it before, people need to really assess if any of these wins etc. are sustainable and actual signs of progress. We don't look any different or better a team since he came in.
Why would he wait to sub Shaw out and put a midfielder on the pitch? It was obvious after 20 mins. He's afraid or hurting his feelings or something.
I’ve given up having any kind of opinion at all at this point.. we could just as easily win this 4-2 as lose it 0-6, and I wouldn’t have the faintest idea of how to explain either in the wider context of our season.
Like, it seems mental to me that he hasn’t changed anything yet, but we could quite easily score 2 goals off Bruno’s ass and one off a passing pigeon in the opening 10 minutes of the second half, and I’d have to just blithely admit we somehow knew what we were doing..
We’re a uniquely weird team. And I mean that historically. I genuinely can’t think of any vaguely suitable past example to compare us to... it’s kinda like if Newcastle-era Keegan managed Redknapp-era Spurs - or possibly the other way around - only without any of the iconic angst or charisma, and just a furiously unending carrousel of unpredictable weirdness..
Last year we were one of the best defensive sides, but now we’re an absolute circus... sometimes we’re the most fluid forward line around, but sometime we literally can’t even control a ball within 20 yards of goal... it’s not just that we aren’t consistent. We are consistent. We’re just consistently inconsistent, in the most consistently baffling way.
Like, it seems mental to me that he hasn’t changed anything yet, but we could quite easily score 2 goals off Bruno’s ass and one off a passing pigeon in the opening 10 minutes of the second half, and I’d have to just blithely admit we somehow knew what we were doing..
We’re a uniquely weird team. And I mean that historically. I genuinely can’t think of any vaguely suitable past example to compare us to... it’s kinda like if Newcastle-era Keegan managed Redknapp-era Spurs - or possibly the other way around - only without any of the iconic angst or charisma, and just a furiously unending carrousel of unpredictable weirdness..
Last year we were one of the best defensive sides, but now we’re an absolute circus... sometimes we’re the most fluid forward line around, but sometime we literally can’t even control a ball within 20 yards of goal... it’s not just that we aren’t consistent. We are consistent. We’re just consistently inconsistent, in the most consistently baffling way.
It's easy for me, we are extremely reliant on individual quality. Whether some people want to accept it, we have some top players, who can sometimes pull some shit out of the bag.
Our defensive stat last season wasn't even that good. We looked like conceding anytime somebody with pace ran at us.
You and every other fecker who doesn’t support United and those who do who aren’t deluded.
I mean honestly, do these people think everyone else outside the club is wrong about Ole?
Every fecking supporter of every other club wants him to remain at United.
What does that tell you?
Ole is a likeable guy too so it’s not like Mourinho where people will call him shite purely because they don’t like him.
Most of the time our style of play is just too simple or direct. It is largely supported by having quality players and momentum. Ole will flop at a lower club
We really are. Playing 7 defensive minded players against a team we beat 5-0 a few weeks ago is awful to start with. Then we are being dominated and 2-0 down, and he doesn't make any sort of tactical changes which a good manager would. He then brings on 2 defenders when we need goals, all the while leaving Ighalo and Mata on the bench. It's comical how bad he is.
I've had enough of it.
Goal 1 - how does the goalscorer arrive there completely alone? AWB is markng the player he thinks he should be marking so how do Leipzig get an attacker in that position totally unmarked?
Goal 2 - same as above, on the other side.
Goal 3 - the players should know who controls that situation. Does DDG come to claim those or should Maguire be clearing it unless he gets a shout. It could be either, but they should know.
These are not individual errors, these are players doing what they've been told to do and still getting cut open.
After 2 years all we know how to do is sit back and score from direct balls and counter attacks. Any other situation and we're as hopeless as we have ever been. I've long thought Ole watched that Thierry Henry clip on Skysports from a few years ago where he said Pep let them do whatever they wanted in the final third, and he took it a little too literally.
Goal 1 - how does the goalscorer arrive there completely alone? AWB is markng the player he thinks he should be marking so how do Leipzig get an attacker in that position totally unmarked?
Goal 2 - same as above, on the other side.
Goal 3 - the players should know who controls that situation. Does DDG come to claim those or should Maguire be clearing it unless he gets a shout. It could be either, but they should know.
These are not individual errors, these are players doing what they've been told to do and still getting cut open.
After 2 years all we know how to do is sit back and score from direct balls and counter attacks. Any other situation and we're as hopeless as we have ever been. I've long thought Ole watched that Thierry Henry clip on Skysports from a few years ago where he said Pep let them do whatever they wanted in the final third, and he took it a little too literally.
We really are. The last few games have really highlighted that.
Everything from the way the team is set up, the midfield don't seem to know where they should be. We have the ball and it isn't a counter-attack, we look utterly clueless as what to do with the ball. Like the team has never even considered this scenario and struggle to string 2 passes together never mind break a team down.
When teams are sitting deep we still position our strikers to play on the shoulder of defenders, even when there is no room behind to run onto.
I can't tell if our defence is badly coached or just plain bad. Maguire used to be at least a competent defender, but at the moment he is about as useful as a brick. I don't think Telles has been in the correct defensive position since he joined. And don't get me started on our marking at corners or set pieces.......
This squad on paper is really good. Which is probably why we are where we are in the league, as we have players who can score despite performances been abysmal. But 90% of the time watching this team play you would think we should be fighting for relegation.
Everything from the way the team is set up, the midfield don't seem to know where they should be. We have the ball and it isn't a counter-attack, we look utterly clueless as what to do with the ball. Like the team has never even considered this scenario and struggle to string 2 passes together never mind break a team down.
When teams are sitting deep we still position our strikers to play on the shoulder of defenders, even when there is no room behind to run onto.
I can't tell if our defence is badly coached or just plain bad. Maguire used to be at least a competent defender, but at the moment he is about as useful as a brick. I don't think Telles has been in the correct defensive position since he joined. And don't get me started on our marking at corners or set pieces.......
This squad on paper is really good. Which is probably why we are where we are in the league, as we have players who can score despite performances been abysmal. But 90% of the time watching this team play you would think we should be fighting for relegation.
Tactics last night, heard him shout move the ball faster at two nill down. Going for the ace up his sleeve of Timothy fosu Mensah late on. It's so bad, he messed up CL awfully first Leipzig game. This nightmare must end.
I am sure he is Googling what he should do when disaster hits.
Its totally on Ole that we start so crap, I remember the final few days of Jose as well, the similarities are there. He was close to get the sack against Newcastle and we were 2-0 down and won 3-2, its not a tactical genius to throw attacking players when you are 2-0 down.
It shows lack of tactics and coaching when you have to make subs at half time every game. It shows you chose the wrong team, wrong tactics.
Leipzig played with no striker and we played a 5 back.
It shows lack of tactics and coaching when you have to make subs at half time every game. It shows you chose the wrong team, wrong tactics.
Leipzig played with no striker and we played a 5 back.
I've said it before but the way we play is so heavily dependent on who is on the pitch that i barely believe we have a game plan.
Ferdinand highlighted that we need a system and work on players understanding each others movements. That's how we find consistency not just buying better players.
Something i rarely see with us is complaints between players when an expected run isn't made. It's because we don't have expected runs in the first place. Bruno is the closest but even he has stopped complaining.
Ferdinand highlighted that we need a system and work on players understanding each others movements. That's how we find consistency not just buying better players.
Something i rarely see with us is complaints between players when an expected run isn't made. It's because we don't have expected runs in the first place. Bruno is the closest but even he has stopped complaining.
It's so easy to recognise a well coached team.
Pep's teams, Klopp's teams, Leipzig, THAT Monaco team, Brendan Rodgers Swansea, this season's Brighton and Southampton, Simeone's A Madrid.
Like you can just watch them a few times and just tell, you know.
We are not a well coached team.
We don't press as a team properly. We can't play out the back properly under pressure. We don't have a consistent week to week play style.
It's always individual brilliance.
Pep's teams, Klopp's teams, Leipzig, THAT Monaco team, Brendan Rodgers Swansea, this season's Brighton and Southampton, Simeone's A Madrid.
Like you can just watch them a few times and just tell, you know.
We are not a well coached team.
We don't press as a team properly. We can't play out the back properly under pressure. We don't have a consistent week to week play style.
It's always individual brilliance.
What's bemusing is the cognitive dissonance between a player having a bad game and the manager having the power to either correct that in-game, with tactical amendments, or hook him, yet proceeding to do neither whilst the player continues to get the blame. It takes all kinds of mental gymnastics to run through a whole team doing that for each individual who's having a bad game and looking completely out of sorts.
The goals we score don't come through a system or coaching method: they are momentary flashes of individual or even collective combination brilliance before, weirdly, the play becomes disconnected again unless the opposing to team then has no choice but to open up and leave massive gaps for us to play into, which is any professional players' dream and something they've been adept at since a single digit age.
We put more men at the back, supposedly to shore up space and to keep things compact, whilst, ironically giving even more space to the opposition and acres of space for them to play into; we have five at the back, yet are vulnerable to diagonals out wide. What?; We make pressing multiple times easier for the opposition because we're sat so deep, with so few creative players, that our whole team has to drop back and the ones trying to play out whilst being pressed are the most press-susceptible in the whole team leading to even more easy turnovers and a completely disorientated backline behind them.
Once they went 2 up, the dynamics of the game, from their POV, changed, and panic set in, for them, with not knowing whether to stick or twist, which invited us back into the game and could have had us get the required result.
None of this points towards coaching awareness, and if sitting back and breaking on the counter doesn't work, we don't know what to do as a collective - there is no default fallback system or method that the players can feel comfortable with before any changes need to be made, which is why we're so up and down and so obviously, and continually vulnerable throughout 90 minutes, let alone over a run of games.
I don't care what name is at the helm - but as a club who supposedly demand the best, it should always be someone who is, or has, the potential to be one of the best in the world. The same goes for the coaching staff and the trickle down effect. We should not be having these same issues season after season; it is well within our financial means to fix.
The goals we score don't come through a system or coaching method: they are momentary flashes of individual or even collective combination brilliance before, weirdly, the play becomes disconnected again unless the opposing to team then has no choice but to open up and leave massive gaps for us to play into, which is any professional players' dream and something they've been adept at since a single digit age.
We put more men at the back, supposedly to shore up space and to keep things compact, whilst, ironically giving even more space to the opposition and acres of space for them to play into; we have five at the back, yet are vulnerable to diagonals out wide. What?; We make pressing multiple times easier for the opposition because we're sat so deep, with so few creative players, that our whole team has to drop back and the ones trying to play out whilst being pressed are the most press-susceptible in the whole team leading to even more easy turnovers and a completely disorientated backline behind them.
Once they went 2 up, the dynamics of the game, from their POV, changed, and panic set in, for them, with not knowing whether to stick or twist, which invited us back into the game and could have had us get the required result.
None of this points towards coaching awareness, and if sitting back and breaking on the counter doesn't work, we don't know what to do as a collective - there is no default fallback system or method that the players can feel comfortable with before any changes need to be made, which is why we're so up and down and so obviously, and continually vulnerable throughout 90 minutes, let alone over a run of games.
I don't care what name is at the helm - but as a club who supposedly demand the best, it should always be someone who is, or has, the potential to be one of the best in the world. The same goes for the coaching staff and the trickle down effect. We should not be having these same issues season after season; it is well within our financial means to fix.
Mark Goldbridge is a whiney twat and made a point about "there is a reason why we talk about the league table and results post Bruno" and that's because Bruno bails us out every match and the coach would likely by sacked if Bruno was out of the team for a prolonged period.
The defence constantly crowds itself on one side of the pitch and we really have problems with attacking, overlapping fullbacks. If the ball is wide on the left, no one is covering runners in from the right. If the ball is wide on the right, no one is covering runners in from the left.
2 glaring examples this season already:
Luke Shaw vs Serge Aurier in the Tottenham match
AWB vs Angelino last night against RBL, also Haidara for the 2nd RBL goal
I've also noticed this in many matches these last 2 seasons and this shit needs to be stomped out. We need to be BETTER at communication between the back four.
Also, does anyone notice how constantly awful our defensive line is? It's more often than not a defensive zig-zag of mess rather than a straight back four line. No wonder all opposition strikers are constantly onside.
2 glaring examples this season already:
Luke Shaw vs Serge Aurier in the Tottenham match
AWB vs Angelino last night against RBL, also Haidara for the 2nd RBL goal
I've also noticed this in many matches these last 2 seasons and this shit needs to be stomped out. We need to be BETTER at communication between the back four.
Also, does anyone notice how constantly awful our defensive line is? It's more often than not a defensive zig-zag of mess rather than a straight back four line. No wonder all opposition strikers are constantly onside.
My problem is less with his tactics than his player selections. I knew we were going to lose as soon as I saw Shaw and Matic on the team sheet -- Shaw especially so since he's always exponentially worse than usual when coming back from a long term injury. I'd rather he have rolled the dice on younger players than choose two who were obviously going to embarrass themselves, just as they did at Istanbul last month.
god, that is bad when you break it down like that
It is 8 defensive minded players sir. The GK is part of the defencegod, that is bad when you break it down like that
We really are. I couldn't bear watching AWB's positioning yesterday. It seems he wasn't briefed in the first place.
Our defensive line was shambles. He set up them very high but our midfielders didn't win a single tackle in the first half. I mean, if you go so high, you need Matic and McT to go after the ball every single time. They were nowhere to be seen.
I was sreaming there was no reaction after going down by 2 goals. He should have been proactive. Call me old fashioned, but just standing there on the line with hands in their pockets made me even more angry. Needed to go back to back 4 asap and put Pogba and Mata or VdB in at HT. Not just VdB.
Also, who threw Shaw into back 3 against a very fast team when he just got back from a long term injury. You can't make this up.
Our defensive line was shambles. He set up them very high but our midfielders didn't win a single tackle in the first half. I mean, if you go so high, you need Matic and McT to go after the ball every single time. They were nowhere to be seen.
I was sreaming there was no reaction after going down by 2 goals. He should have been proactive. Call me old fashioned, but just standing there on the line with hands in their pockets made me even more angry. Needed to go back to back 4 asap and put Pogba and Mata or VdB in at HT. Not just VdB.
Also, who threw Shaw into back 3 against a very fast team when he just got back from a long term injury. You can't make this up.
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We have defended like absolute schoolboys in so many games this season,yes we got away with it in the premier league so far but I can assure you sooner or later it will catch up with us
Do we have an explanation from Ole's POV regarding some of those weird subs ? Wtf did he think bringing TFM was gonna do ?
ffs this is crazy when you really think about it. None of his mates on TV are ever gonna question his logic behind all those tactical moves
Yeah Phil Neville was talking garbage on BBC Radio 5 last night
You make a very important point regarding the first leg.
They were better until we scored and a lot of people ignore that.
Imagine what their manager would do with our squad.
I have not been able to see the match but have seen some graphics here about how we lined up with Rashford and Greenwood up top and we kept pressing them in their own half at the start. Is this correct?
Yeah, if people watch that game back they'll see we had no idea how to get the ball forward. We couldn't string a couple of passes together, but that goal changed the whole complexion of the match. Had we not lined up extremely defensively last night, conceding first wouldn't have been the nightmare it was - and Ole just didn't react, because he doesn't.
Very impressive to see that team play the way they do.
I just saw the way we started. I couldn't believe it. We are having so many defensive players yet we are still so open. It is absolute shambles. No tactics at all. No planning and I would say no coaching on how to play this system as well.
Was delighted to hear Rio and Scholes talk last night about how Ole’s approach is to work out what the best system is for the players he currently has, hence the continual change of systems and shape game to game. The sustainable and visionary approach would be to reverse engineer this like all the great coaches and managers and devise your preferred and clearly coached system, then make sure your players fit into it. If the players don’t, have an excellent scouting network which finds players to seamlessly fit into the system. Casing point would be Klopp’s Liverpool and the signing of a Mane or Jota or Nagelsmann’s Leipzig, and the fact that many won’t have hardly heard of most of their players, yet they play us off the park from a pure football Standpoint. This is a fundamental strategy that I haven’t seen change under Ole and don’t envisage it changing sadly.
Yeah absolutely spot on but many will still have blind faith that things are going to turn around
Not sure about this thread, all my Liverpool supporting friends say we are well coached and Ole should stay as manager forever. Why would they lie?
feck ED WOODWARD & feck THE GLAZERS TOO
feck ED WOODWARD & feck THE GLAZERS TOO
They are trolling you
I blame Ole’s idiotic tactics for both of the first two goals. In both cases defenders didn’t know where they didn’t to be and the wide man wasn’t picked up. They also didn’t know who was supposed to be pressuring the ball on the first goal.
Every fecking game he lines them up in some new, contrived formation, often when they’re playing weaker opposition, and then obvious changes are made at halftime and they have to claw their way back into the match - usually relying on Bruno’s individual brilliance.
It’s a testament to the talent In the squad that they’re able to come back and win so many league games despite him setting them up for failure at the outset.
Every fecking game he lines them up in some new, contrived formation, often when they’re playing weaker opposition, and then obvious changes are made at halftime and they have to claw their way back into the match - usually relying on Bruno’s individual brilliance.
It’s a testament to the talent In the squad that they’re able to come back and win so many league games despite him setting them up for failure at the outset.