Especially when 140m of that is spent on the two most overpriced mediocre english defenders on the market who are just as likely to be deadwood to our next manager as they are to be stalwarts.
If you're Ole in, how much time will you give him?
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
You don’t know that mate.
3 years 6 months 11 days
Cheers and haha yes sorry it was, couldn’t resist!
We finished third last year, and since January have been the second best team in England. Performances are generally improving (even if there are lots of ups and downs and we have big tactical issues). The team are clearly bought into Ole and have a fighting spirit. He's also gotten a lot more right than wrong in the transfer window. I think he deserves a bit more time.
As long as we are in and around the top 4, I'd say give him two more transfer windows so we can move on De Gea and Pogba and bring in players that he deems to be the right fit to take the team to the next level. If we offload those two, we are poised to spend big and complete the overhaul of the squad. Given how he's done so far, I think Ole will spend that money wisely. If we aren't more regular this time next year, then I think it's time to move on. But given the cost of starting over with a new manager and philosophy, it's better to stick with what we've got for now.
I do think Ole would be wise to bring in a Carlos Queiroz type to help out with the tactics and maybe spruce up the training methods though. A simple move along these lines could probably make a big difference.
As long as we are in and around the top 4, I'd say give him two more transfer windows so we can move on De Gea and Pogba and bring in players that he deems to be the right fit to take the team to the next level. If we offload those two, we are poised to spend big and complete the overhaul of the squad. Given how he's done so far, I think Ole will spend that money wisely. If we aren't more regular this time next year, then I think it's time to move on. But given the cost of starting over with a new manager and philosophy, it's better to stick with what we've got for now.
I do think Ole would be wise to bring in a Carlos Queiroz type to help out with the tactics and maybe spruce up the training methods though. A simple move along these lines could probably make a big difference.
I'd give him this season for sure, and the summer transfer window. If Diallo comes in and gets to grips with Prem quickly, he might give us the extra edge to solidify our place in top 4 this year, then next season, we should be aiming higher, bar another disastrous summer transfer window.
I know it's been low standards for past 2 years now, but lots of people seem to be forgetting the dire state we were in before Mourinho went, and not just the toxicity around the team or place in the table, but the football on display. Ole's changed that, has ruthlessly shifted most of deadwood and improved quality of football.
I know it's been low standards for past 2 years now, but lots of people seem to be forgetting the dire state we were in before Mourinho went, and not just the toxicity around the team or place in the table, but the football on display. Ole's changed that, has ruthlessly shifted most of deadwood and improved quality of football.
I agree with a lot of what is being said, maybe end of season? Ole's certainly steered us in the right direction but, with his contract expiring in March 2022, would anyone like to see that extended? For what he's done, he is still too inexperienced and I'm afraid to say that I just don't see him turning us back into an elite team. Which then begs the question, why keep him until the end of the season?
I think he will get to the end of the season, if we get CL then god help us they will extend his contract and it will be another season of not much happening. We are supposedly an elite club, so should have an elite manager. Nobody is signing for this club so they can play under the maestro that is OGS.
Woeful logic. If Mourinho fails at your club, just keep hiring low quality managers becuase you've already tried someone good.
That's my opinion. Ole has done a good job and I believe that his job is done, now we need to find the next man, the one that has the ability to take us from respectable to dominant.
I'd certainly give him until the end of this season and assess it as a whole. I don't think anybody thinks or claims we're the finished article right now, nor could anyone realistically have expected us to be at this stage in Ole's tenure. There are obviously issues but there are also plenty of promising signs. Ole isn't going to be leaving any time soon, not matter how much some people want him to, so we might as well wait and see what happens rather than trying to guess.
Given the way the league has played out so far this year, I really think we should get rid of him now. He has done a lot of good work, but time and time again has proven that he can't properly organise and motivate the team on a regular basis. I don't see how this is ever going to change, as it has been happening since day 1, and I think we have been pulled out of a lot of dire situations by some of our excellent players. Of course, you can say that he bought some of those players, and that's what they're there for, but the point I'm trying to make is that our record does not match our performances in a lot of cases, and I believe there is only so long that can continue.
It's not a case of us having some bad games(people always mentioned how many bad game we won under SAF), we look absolutely lost in a not-insignificant amount of games, against absolutely crap opposition in a lot of cases. You just don't see that(at that scale) from teams with elite level coaches, for the most part it is always clear what they are trying to do, they either don't have all the players for it, or players have bad games individually(obviously any coach can make mistakes as well). Get someone better in and go for the league, we probably won't win it, but we should 100% get top 4, which would be an achievement for a new manager(it would not be one for Ole).
It's not a case of us having some bad games(people always mentioned how many bad game we won under SAF), we look absolutely lost in a not-insignificant amount of games, against absolutely crap opposition in a lot of cases. You just don't see that(at that scale) from teams with elite level coaches, for the most part it is always clear what they are trying to do, they either don't have all the players for it, or players have bad games individually(obviously any coach can make mistakes as well). Get someone better in and go for the league, we probably won't win it, but we should 100% get top 4, which would be an achievement for a new manager(it would not be one for Ole).
Agree completely with everything you've said.
Man for man last night you could see we were better than Leipzig. And we lost.
They have some really average players who have been coached to become more than the sum of their parts. We have some great players (as well as some poor ones) that don't look like they know what they're doing.
That's the difference right now. Ole has raised the level of our squads ability CONSIDERABLY and deserves credit - ironically if he'd done all this as a director of football we'd be hugely impressed. Now we need to look at the coaching, because the talent is there, there are no excuses anymore.
While we're at it, Moyes has still got another 5 years left on his contract to prove himself. We'll let Ole have his two more years then let Moyesy have his turn again.
Nope, but if both Mourinho and LvG fail, then it at least shows you that just changing managers won’t improve you long term, if everything else remains as it is. Jose bought Fred and Matic. Jose/the club also bought Pogba. Now we have to play a combination of them and McT, but no combination offers the complete package. Next manager will buy 2 or 3 players he would like for his “system”. The one manager after the next will again work with players who had been brought in by 2-3 different managers for completely different systems.
So even if we bring in a better manager with the current structure the best he will probably do is get us 3rd and then back to fighting for top 4.
We will continue to hire completely different managers and bring new players for each manager as we will always have some money to spend, and we will rightly sack underperforming managers at some point, but we won’t reach the top until we operate like a top club does and have a clear strategy in terms of transfers and systems / style of play (which goes beyond only one manager). If we had this structure in place we could actually get rid off underperforming managers way earlier without suffering much performance wise and financially (expensive transfer which are not ideal for a new system / manager, so he buys expensive again).
What utter nonsense.
You touch on something true though, which is employing managers with vastly different philosophy's is beyond stupid. Employ a top manager now that fits our squad and we'd be on to something.
Did your phone / device only show you that line and not the rest of my post?
Wrong getting a better manager who is also a good fit would most likely improve you. Would it fix all the problems? No, but it would improve on a big one. It's like refusing to sign a better CF than the average one you have because there are other areas to also work on.
Ditto.
Well yeah, after spending another 200 mil it will slightly improve us for 1-2 seasons and then the whole cycle starts again. I am not denying things will improve after we sack a manager, I mean they can hardly get any worse (as things are already very bad every time we sack a manager). But unless you get a really strong and proven manager who convinces the board to make structural changes, we won’t reach the top again (and by that I mean properly compete for big trophies).
LvG initially also improved us. Jose did as well by winning the EL. Ole did as well by getting 3rd place with a relatively young team and no quality beyond the staring eleven. So will the next manager (probably). But I am sick off those minor / short term improvements and have by now realised that long term improvements will need more than just changing manager and getting the next available guy (again, we will just get the guy who is available regardless of a clear strategy).
I think many are focusing too much on short term.
Many on here seems to think we should buy 12 new players in every transfer window, and all should be on Mbappe level.
What makes me still be behind Ole, is that to me it looks like he's trying to rebuild the whole club, not only the first 11, and in the long run it'll do us good.
This job is a marathon, not a sprint.
Am happy with the PL position, it's looking alright.
Very unhappy with CL, especially the loss in Turkey and the first half yesterday.
Found the comments about being owned by a better manager very amusing, considering how much we beat them in the first meeting
Many on here seems to think we should buy 12 new players in every transfer window, and all should be on Mbappe level.
What makes me still be behind Ole, is that to me it looks like he's trying to rebuild the whole club, not only the first 11, and in the long run it'll do us good.
This job is a marathon, not a sprint.
Am happy with the PL position, it's looking alright.
Very unhappy with CL, especially the loss in Turkey and the first half yesterday.
Found the comments about being owned by a better manager very amusing, considering how much we beat them in the first meeting
Glad you're treating that as a win, meanwhile Nagelsmann has just won the group that featured Manchester United and PSG, with RB fecking LeipzigFound the comments about being owned by a better manager very amusing, considering how much we beat them in the first meeting
He who laughs last and all that. Ole's win meant fecking zero, Nagelsmann win means everything.
The most optimal scenario is to change manager when the season is over, if things don’t go dramatically wrong, but right now it’s obvious he’s underperforming with the squad he has to his disposal.
His tactical knowledge is so flawed that in some matches, like yesterday, he don’t understand why things go wrong and why we’re losing, sometimes he don’t even know why we’re winning. He seems to don’t understand the importance of game management at the sideline. Not everything is about correcting tactical mistakes or instructions , sometimes it’s about sending signs of encouragement and engagement.
We don’t have a clear game identity except counter attacking against better teams. In short. Give the ball to Bruno.
Sometimes he sets up his formation without making a consequence analysis about individual players qualities and weaknesses. For example. A defensive of MacShit/Lindegirl and Matic/MacT is poor in possession and slow and static, that’s a well known facts. Still he continues making this rookie mistakes and don’t plan for these situations. Continue with Fred who has a yellow card and is waiting to get another one against PSG is the mother of this f*ck up.
And what about his transfers dealings. Apart from Bruno. Honestly? MacShit represent poor value as it stands. AWB has his flaws even if he’s a world class man to man defender. Dan James? Why did we bought DvdB? Not everything is on the manager but we can’t absolve him from so many questionable transfers.
Then that narrative that Ole is so nice and well liked. By who? Pogba? What in his behavior differs him from other normal managers not named Mourinho? For me Ole is more like a slippery politician who says everything and nothing and still the results are questionable. He’s a good person but so is most of us, nothing exceptional.
It’s painfully obvious we’re going nowhere with Ole at the wheel, the sooner we change direction and find another manager the better. Thank him in January or in the summer and move on. That’s the best solution for Manchester United.
His tactical knowledge is so flawed that in some matches, like yesterday, he don’t understand why things go wrong and why we’re losing, sometimes he don’t even know why we’re winning. He seems to don’t understand the importance of game management at the sideline. Not everything is about correcting tactical mistakes or instructions , sometimes it’s about sending signs of encouragement and engagement.
We don’t have a clear game identity except counter attacking against better teams. In short. Give the ball to Bruno.
Sometimes he sets up his formation without making a consequence analysis about individual players qualities and weaknesses. For example. A defensive of MacShit/Lindegirl and Matic/MacT is poor in possession and slow and static, that’s a well known facts. Still he continues making this rookie mistakes and don’t plan for these situations. Continue with Fred who has a yellow card and is waiting to get another one against PSG is the mother of this f*ck up.
And what about his transfers dealings. Apart from Bruno. Honestly? MacShit represent poor value as it stands. AWB has his flaws even if he’s a world class man to man defender. Dan James? Why did we bought DvdB? Not everything is on the manager but we can’t absolve him from so many questionable transfers.
Then that narrative that Ole is so nice and well liked. By who? Pogba? What in his behavior differs him from other normal managers not named Mourinho? For me Ole is more like a slippery politician who says everything and nothing and still the results are questionable. He’s a good person but so is most of us, nothing exceptional.
It’s painfully obvious we’re going nowhere with Ole at the wheel, the sooner we change direction and find another manager the better. Thank him in January or in the summer and move on. That’s the best solution for Manchester United.
For me the bar is simple: Qualification for the Champions League is the minimum requirement. If we fail to reach it, like Moyes and Van Gaal in 2015-16, or we look like we will never make it, like Mourinho in 2018-19, the head coach should go.
At the moment Ole has United five points off of first place, two if we win our game in hand. Therefore I am happy with him keeping his job. If we start sinking like a stone, and by 19 games in are far, far away, then I'm open to a change.
At the moment Ole has United five points off of first place, two if we win our game in hand. Therefore I am happy with him keeping his job. If we start sinking like a stone, and by 19 games in are far, far away, then I'm open to a change.
The guy repaid the defeat by dominating us in the 2nd leg with an inferior team and stealing qualification from under our noses and we're here patting ourselves on the back for winning the first game and ending up in the Europa league.Glad you're treating that as a win, meanwhile Nagelsmann has just won the group that featured Manchester United and PSG, with RB fecking Leipzig
He who laughs last and all that. Ole's win meant fecking zero, Nagelsmann win means everything.
It's not a matter of time for me. But I just don't see a manager out there who I firmly believe will make any sort of drastic difference in the short timescale that many fans expect. Our difficulties are currently so ingrained in the club it just will take many years to reverse, whether its one manager or 10 managers in that time.
We'll still be having the same discussions about inconsistency and bad coaching in a few years' time.
We'll still be having the same discussions about inconsistency and bad coaching in a few years' time.
is our player quality really all that ?
De Gea - well past his best,
AWB great in a 1v1 situation, average at everything else and that is being kind
Lindelof - terrible in the air, anticipation is awful,
Maguire - no accelaration, anticipation awful as well, seems to spend as much time on his arse the now as standing
Shaw - no drive, looks like every game he plays in a testimonial, piss poor going forward. not sure can say his defending is anything special either.
Telles - defence wise shocking, has a good cross thats it, corners since he arrived have been awful.
not even going to do anymore as just actually annoys me how piss poor we are, majority of this squad ain't good enough. same with the manager and coach's
baring extreme disaster in the league, he gets to end of season for me and then we reassess
A hell group? Seriously? The German team has the same transfer budget of Everton
This feels like a good time to mention to ya'll lads and lasses that getting knoked out in the CL group stages has happened to every manchester united manager.
I am so salty about that Istanbul result, jesus.
Happy with Ole though. and Bruno.
Less happy with the defense that keeps letting people just chill alone at the back post, what the hell guys.
I am so salty about that Istanbul result, jesus.
Happy with Ole though. and Bruno.
Less happy with the defense that keeps letting people just chill alone at the back post, what the hell guys.
Leipzig played 3-3 v Bayern like 5 days ago. and played the CL semi finals 5 months ago. Can everyone stop pretending this is some pedestrian noveltyteam it's unforgivable to lose to? Yeah I'm dissapointed, but come on.
It's a team that managed to go 3-3 in away game against Bayern few days ago.
I don’t think Ole will take us back to the top but ultimately our signings are the major issue. We spent too much money on above average players, put on too much money. So when we need to get rid and sign new players we can’t make changes quick enough.
In the end Ole did well to get 3rd. The FA cup and Europa League semi final performances were bad but it’s not terrible to be knocked out by Chelsea and Sevilla. My issue is still with the transfer window this summer, as it was when Mourinho lost the plot. Players should have been signed in key positions.
We know we need a RW. We have known that Matic is so slow and with two slow CB behind we lack pace defensively. We are always exposed when Matic, Maguire and Lindelof play together. We have known for well over 18 months De Gea consistently makes mistakes. Why are these issues not rectified? We have the money but decided to buy two unknown RW, and one isn’t even at the club yet. Cavani was available all summer but we get that deal over the line at the last minute, so he missed loads of games getting match fit. Telles is the only player who you could argue was an improvement on a first 11 player. It’s poor decision in that department which is holding us back.
Ole wants to protect the back 4 against better teams hence the 5 in defence and two holding midfielders last night. The problem we have is changing the formation causes confusion with player roles and we lack pace at CB. AWB is clueless as a RWB. He’s always out of position and offers no threat going forward. Ole needs to stick to the same formation and just wait for the chance to sign players.
In the end Ole did well to get 3rd. The FA cup and Europa League semi final performances were bad but it’s not terrible to be knocked out by Chelsea and Sevilla. My issue is still with the transfer window this summer, as it was when Mourinho lost the plot. Players should have been signed in key positions.
We know we need a RW. We have known that Matic is so slow and with two slow CB behind we lack pace defensively. We are always exposed when Matic, Maguire and Lindelof play together. We have known for well over 18 months De Gea consistently makes mistakes. Why are these issues not rectified? We have the money but decided to buy two unknown RW, and one isn’t even at the club yet. Cavani was available all summer but we get that deal over the line at the last minute, so he missed loads of games getting match fit. Telles is the only player who you could argue was an improvement on a first 11 player. It’s poor decision in that department which is holding us back.
Ole wants to protect the back 4 against better teams hence the 5 in defence and two holding midfielders last night. The problem we have is changing the formation causes confusion with player roles and we lack pace at CB. AWB is clueless as a RWB. He’s always out of position and offers no threat going forward. Ole needs to stick to the same formation and just wait for the chance to sign players.
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Not true at all. You can see improvements in terms of squad composition no doubt but our performances on the pitch (aside from some sporadic good games) has completely flatlined in terms of development. To me, we appear to be no better at all in terms of game management, in how we start games, in the overall level of our performances. No one thinks we need 12 new players each window, in fact I think a lot on here now (myself included) feel we've got a pretty good squad. But can you honestly say that as a team we are looking any different to this time last year? Can you really see Ole's improvement as a coach? watching us, a lot of the time, is more akin to an endurance sport. Football should be entertaining regardless of the result. We look awful ... a lot of the time too. THis pattern has been stuck on repeat for two years. I love Ole but I'm really bored of watching us look so clueless on the pitch. For a top team, we look so easily negated and nullified.
I've agreed with this point for ages but I really believe Ole's focus should be on the pitch. We have some fantastic players, serisously we do. Bruno, VdB, Cavani, Rashford, so why do we look so awful so often? We'll never win anything by performing well for 30 mins here, 60 mins there, and 15 mins somewhere else every now and then.
The rebuilding of the whole club is WAY beyond Ole's scope so he should just keep to trying to get the best out of his players every match.
Currently it is but that is not solely down to how brilliant we've been and could soon change if we don't perform better.
Well the obvious answer is once top 4 isn't possible.
However, if he can't get the team motivated to start games in the manner in which they play when they go a goal down, we'll be out of the race soon enough.
It's baffling that this is still happening. Even without needing to be told, as a player wouldn't you think to yourself right that's happened a lot this season and we've conceded first in practically every single game I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again.
How are they still starting games so sluggishly?
However, if he can't get the team motivated to start games in the manner in which they play when they go a goal down, we'll be out of the race soon enough.
It's baffling that this is still happening. Even without needing to be told, as a player wouldn't you think to yourself right that's happened a lot this season and we've conceded first in practically every single game I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again.
How are they still starting games so sluggishly?
The squad is fine. Wan bissaka is a good right back, he goes up and down and people overreact to his down performances instead of realizing he plays pretty much every minute because we have no backup for him, so naturally his level will drop. De Gea is still a good goalkeeper, and behind him we have Henderson waiting. Our left backs are both alright, some pros and cons, but yeah nothing special but not awful. Our centerbacks aren't too bad but obviously not at the level we would hope for either. But then again, Spurs are making Dier look very good right now, and we had roughly the best defence in the league (or thereabouts) last season, so its not all that bad. I've always been a firm believer that coaching and organization is among the most important aspects for a defense though, and we are lacking there.
Convenient that you stop right there before you go over our best areas right?
End of the season for me, but i am losing hope. Tactically we are not a well coached team. We are relying on individual brilliance rather than collective brilliance.
Last night in the second half our tactics to score were from corner kicks and free kicks. Says it all really.
At least we have bought good. That is a positive. He has bought the best of any manager since Fergie retired.
Last night in the second half our tactics to score were from corner kicks and free kicks. Says it all really.
At least we have bought good. That is a positive. He has bought the best of any manager since Fergie retired.
Agree with many other posters that Ole has done as well as anyone could have expected. He took us from a seriously low point at the end of Mourinho’s tenure and gave the club back some spirit, belief and identity.
I also agree that ultimately whoever we bring in will still be facing an uphill struggle because the board and owners are so inept.
However, I think Ole earned himself a decent go if things this season by finishing inside the top four last season which had to have been the objective set for him. His objective this season would have been to remain in the top four so I would only get rid on one of the following criteria:
1. We fall behind in the race for top 4 this season (let’s say 6-9 points);
2. werun a good race but ultimately fail to get top 4 this season;
3. We fail to seriously challenge for the title (or some major silverware next season and another top 4 finish).
The above for me is a realistic trajectory and is the meter by which Ole should be measured. Anyone who says his football is dire and worthy of the sack in and of itself clearly didn’t watch much of us under LVG.
I also agree that ultimately whoever we bring in will still be facing an uphill struggle because the board and owners are so inept.
However, I think Ole earned himself a decent go if things this season by finishing inside the top four last season which had to have been the objective set for him. His objective this season would have been to remain in the top four so I would only get rid on one of the following criteria:
1. We fall behind in the race for top 4 this season (let’s say 6-9 points);
2. werun a good race but ultimately fail to get top 4 this season;
3. We fail to seriously challenge for the title (or some major silverware next season and another top 4 finish).
The above for me is a realistic trajectory and is the meter by which Ole should be measured. Anyone who says his football is dire and worthy of the sack in and of itself clearly didn’t watch much of us under LVG.
Yeah, there is so much focus on managers, but really they are only as good as the quality of their coaches. We dropped a level and then some after Maulensteen and Queiroz left us and when Jose and Rui Faria had their lovers spat and the former left us, it was like our level plummeted overnight.
So much is said here about coaching and none of us have a fecking clue really since
A: I bet 99% of the caf has even coached kids football
B: We dont know shit about what is going on at Carrington, maybe Carrick and co are brilliant?
Generally speaking, i think our attacking play looks good for the most part. Its not as micro-managed at LvG would have it, but imo that the players are being given more responsibility and more freedom is not necessarily a bad thing. I bet that many of the people that moan about "lack of patterns" now, were moaning as much, if not more, when we played like a bunch of robots under LvG and could hardly produce a shot at goal.
That being said, our defending has been very suspect this season, partly down to individual feck ups but also because we have looked disorganized and shaky at the back and that needs to be fixed.