If you're Ole in, how much time will you give him?

Maticmaker

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I agree with a number of posters that it is mostly the coaching side that lets us down.

Proficient training is what brings players up to a level of ability/fitness to do the basics of a job, but it is good/focused coaching which takes the team performances beyond the sum of the parts. The days when, as Sir Matt once reportedly said, "you just throw the ball to good players and let them get on with it"...have gone.

I sometimes wonder if the training is proficient, at least in terms of fitness; however since we seem to be slow to start, we can nevertheless keep going for the 90+mins now required. Its the coaching that seems to leave gaps, what positions to take up, at certain stages, transition issues, both attacking and defending seem woeful at times. Positioning at throw-ins beyond the18 yard line to draw defenses back, so called 'quick' free kicks were it seems only the taker knows what he's going to do, the recipient looking surprised to receive the ball. Sometimes laughable attempts to initiate a 'press', although lately it seems we can manage it may be once or twice before our discipline goes.
This is all about coaching the ability of players to keep their timing and discipline.

We do have some extremely talented players and individual brilliance does not need to be stifled, but the little flicks and back-heels from Bruno, the 'Maradona-like' turns from Greenwood, the near post runs from Cavani or the half turn speed of Rashford needs to have programmed responses identified, if such actions are unsuccessful and the ball is lost or needs to be recovered. When Fred and McTominay go 'hunting as a pair' to win the ball or stop the opposition, those closest to them have to plug any gaps, automatically as an instant response; hence coaching players in levels of concentration are high on the list. Any player can get rocked-back on his heels once in a game, by any direct opponent, but he should never experience that in the same situation again, in that same game.

IMO if there is a weakness in Ole's management style/team, it seems to be in and around the concepts used (or not) in Coaching, perhaps at its worst instance the ability to recognise were training stops and coaching begins. Maybe a DoF will help him here?
 

devilish

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Leipzig played 3-3 v Bayern like 5 days ago. and played the CL semi finals 5 months ago. Can everyone stop pretending this is some pedestrian noveltyteam it's unforgivable to lose to? Yeah I'm dissapointed, but come on.
It's a team that managed to go 3-3 in away game against Bayern few days ago.
According to transfermarkt Leipzig had registered a net transfer profit of around 7m during the 18/19 season and another net transfer profit of around 23m in the 2020/21 season. They registered a transfer loss of 31.50m euros during the 2019-2020 transfer window. In comparison United made a net transfer loss of 68.5m last summer, a net transfer loss of 145.6m the year before and a net transfer loss of 50m the year before that. Leipzig have 3 loaned players (Henrichs, Angelino and Kluivert) one of which is currently their top scorer and main assist man. Their current second joint top scorers are Poulsen who previously played for Lyngby and Forsberg who previously played with elite clubs like GIF Sundsvall and of course the great Molde. Meanwhile their manager is 33 years old which makes him younger then Grant, Cavani and Romero and few months older to Mata and Matic. Needless to say that Nagelsmann is younger then Ole and all his coaching staff (Phelan, Carrick, Mckenna, Dempsey, Pert, Blanco, Mawson, Clegg, Lawlor, Meredith and Hawkins)

United should be shitting in their pants at the prospect of meeting such great team. No wonder why they managed to outwit us in the CL. Surely we needed Sancho, Upamecano (Leipzig bought him for 2.2m) and Haaland for this game. We've set Ole to fail by not providing him with such players.
 

BR7

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It’s everything and everyone else’s fault but Ole. I’ve got staff like that who won’t take responsibility for their actions. There’s always a reason why they’re shit but it’s not their fault. Cowardice, you got to love it
 

Luffy

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I prefer Ole here for 5 more years until it's sad and rancid to diss him. He is proving to be a great value 4 money in terms of entertainment. His serrated coaching is a joy to witness and the fans plus pundits coming to his defence is the type of icing on the cake that's impossible to find in the funniest of entertainment.
 

Ali Dia

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According to transfermarkt Leipzig had registered a net transfer profit of around 7m during the 18/19 season and another net transfer profit of around 23m in the 2020/21 season. They registered a transfer loss of 31.50m euros during the 2019-2020 transfer window. In comparison United made a net transfer loss of 68.5m last summer, a net transfer loss of 145.6m the year before and a net transfer loss of 50m the year before that. Leipzig have 3 loaned players (Henrichs, Angelino and Kluivert) one of which is currently their top scorer and main assist man. Their current second joint top scorers are Poulsen who previously played for Lyngby and Forsberg who previously played with elite clubs like GIF Sundsvall and of course the great Molde. Meanwhile their manager is 33 years old which makes him younger then Grant, Cavani and Romero and few months older to Mata and Matic. Needless to say that Nagelsmann is younger then Ole and all his coaching staff (Phelan, Carrick, Mckenna, Dempsey, Pert, Blanco, Mawson, Clegg, Lawlor, Meredith and Hawkins)

United should be shitting in their pants at the prospect of meeting such great team. No wonder why they managed to outwit us in the CL. Surely we needed Sancho, Upamecano (Leipzig bought him for 2.2m) and Haaland for this game. We've set Ole to fail by not providing him with such players.
100% this club set managers up to fail whether it looks like it on the outside or not.We are expected to beat last seasons semi finalists away from home with a teenage centre forward as our main right winger and Matic and McT in the engine. It’s as much a recruitment/contract/owner problem as it is a coaching one. Coaching can improve easily, we can’t change the owners though so the problem remains.without a dof We at least need a manager the owners trust and will listen to and we will never get that if we keep changing
 

SAFMUTD

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I know it's been low standards for past 2 years now, but lots of people seem to be forgetting the dire state we were in before Mourinho went, and not just the toxicity around the team or place in the table, but the football on display. Ole's changed that, has ruthlessly shifted most of deadwood and improved quality of football.
People also seem to be forgetting that dire state was not normal, it was Mourinho giving up and actively pursuing his sack. Before that summer when he imploded we made 80+ points.

I don't get why people always must compare the current situation with Mourinho's lowest point as if that was how we usually were and Ole has saved us from that. No mate, this team had/has higher potential and its been proven there's no reason we should settle for less.

About him shifting the deadwood ruthless, that another myth that gets often repeated without substance. He sold Alexis, Darmian, Young, Smalling and Lukaku. The first two were definitely deadwood the latter 3 were/are not. We still have Rojo, Jones and now we can add Lingard and probably Bailly and James to that list.

I dont think getting rid of 2 deadwood players qualify as ruthless.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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According to transfermarkt Leipzig had registered a net transfer profit of around 7m during the 18/19 season and another net transfer profit of around 23m in the 2020/21 season. They registered a transfer loss of 31.50m euros during the 2019-2020 transfer window. In comparison United made a net transfer loss of 68.5m last summer, a net transfer loss of 145.6m the year before and a net transfer loss of 50m the year before that. Leipzig have 3 loaned players (Henrichs, Angelino and Kluivert) one of which is currently their top scorer and main assist man. Their current second joint top scorers are Poulsen who previously played for Lyngby and Forsberg who previously played with elite clubs like GIF Sundsvall and of course the great Molde. Meanwhile their manager is 33 years old which makes him younger then Grant, Cavani and Romero and few months older to Mata and Matic. Needless to say that Nagelsmann is younger then Ole and all his coaching staff (Phelan, Carrick, Mckenna, Dempsey, Pert, Blanco, Mawson, Clegg, Lawlor, Meredith and Hawkins)

United should be shitting in their pants at the prospect of meeting such great team. No wonder why they managed to outwit us in the CL. Surely we needed Sancho, Upamecano (Leipzig bought him for 2.2m) and Haaland for this game. We've set Ole to fail by not providing him with such players.
It doesn't counter my argument about RB Leipzig is good team and we are in the toughest group. The champion of Turkey Super League, Finalist of CL & Semi Finalist of CL.

United should not lose to Leipzig but football isn't like that. If football is so simple and determined by net transfer profit then Ole shouldn't beat Pep 3x last season and Bayern should have beat RB Leipzig last week not draw.

Leipzig is a team that run properly by the board. Notice how some of their main players were already in the club 5 years ago from 3 different managers. It shows you the club have structure, style of play they want to have in the club, know type of players they want to sign which makes the manager job easier because each manager inherited players that suits their system.
 

Murray3007

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The squad is fine. Wan bissaka is a good right back, he goes up and down and people overreact to his down performances instead of realizing he plays pretty much every minute because we have no backup for him, so naturally his level will drop. De Gea is still a good goalkeeper, and behind him we have Henderson waiting. Our left backs are both alright, some pros and cons, but yeah nothing special but not awful. Our centerbacks aren't too bad but obviously not at the level we would hope for either. But then again, Spurs are making Dier look very good right now, and we had roughly the best defence in the league (or thereabouts) last season, so its not all that bad. I've always been a firm believer that coaching and organization is among the most important aspects for a defense though, and we are lacking there.

Convenient that you stop right there before you go over our best areas right?
you do talk some shite, AWB aint even in the top 5 full backs in the league, our LB and CB's the same, our midfield are woeful lets be honest, Matic, Fred, Mctomminay, Pogba. many times do we watch this team get dominated in the middle of the park, almost every week, our attack blow hot and cold all the time, Rashford and Martial time to perform every week or they need to go now, been around the first team long enough, cavani only a stop gap, Greenwood plenty of potential but it stops there, likes of mata, James, igahlo, rojo, jones just need let go from the club.
 

devilish

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100% this club set managers up to fail whether it looks like it on the outside or not.We are expected to beat last seasons semi finalists away from home with a teenage centre forward as our main right winger and Matic and McT in the engine. It’s as much a recruitment/contract/owner problem as it is a coaching one. Coaching can improve easily, we can’t change the owners though so the problem remains.without a dof We at least need a manager the owners trust and will listen to and we will never get that if we keep changing
I am not suggesting that we're anywhere near perfect. However let's stop with this group of hell BS because its not. Leipzig are a well run but still a small club and the Turkish club are pathetic. We were expected to pass through that group.
 

Bilbo

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I have to admit that in the morning after the night before I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about what the right thing is for the club. For me, there are still a lot more pro's than con's when it comes to evaluating Ole, and I do strongly believe that he has done a fantastic job rebuilding this squad and lifting the mentality of the club up to where it is now.

When it comes to our failure to get through this group, two significant thoughts spring to mind. The first is that we shouldn't underestimate how unlucky we were with the draw and I think a test of this magnitude ultimately came along a little too early for this team. We weren't ready. The second, and most important, is that this was a collective failure. What I mean by that is that if you look at the key incidents that cost us, some of these were on the manager and some were also on individual players. Many of these mistakes were not a result of coaching deficiencies. They were players not doing their jobs. They were Freds stupid headbutt. The brainfart of the Demba Ba goal. The Martial misses against PSG. Masons miss in the first 10 minutes last night. Maguire & De Gea not being on the same page for the 3rd goal. Etc Etc Etc. None of these are coaching issues.

So am I still Ole in? Yes. How much time do we give him? I don't know the answer to that. It involves too many unknowns and we need to see how we perform for the rest of this season. My biggest concern right now is not how we've been set up tactically. Ole gets it right a lot, and every manager gets it wrong sometimes. I love how we went for it against PSG. That's how I want United to play. No fear. Its also not the substitutions. We don't know the circumstances of those, and besides our subs have won us plenty of games this season.

My biggest concern is how we are starting so poorly, so often. I can't understand it. I doubt that anyone understands it, but I am absolutely certain that it gets talked about in the dressing room ALL.THE.TIME. There is some kind of mental block there that's needs to be solved ASAP, and that is where the conflicting thoughts come in for me. Its the only reason I'm starting to question whether we need to start thinking about a change (thinking about, not doing). I don't believe that Ole doesn't have the backing of the dressing room, but if its an issue that is going to cost us key matches then that will undo everything else that is happening. It has to be solved.
 

Fridge chutney

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Let's reassess at the end of the season. We're inconsistent but otherwise we're doing ok.
 

croadyman

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Did you read the condition? We have to be challenging or look to finish top 4 comfortably.

Am I happy with going out of the UCL? No, not at all. But overall I feel positive about where we are heading. We screwed up in Istanbul, but we had those games even under SAF.
Against PSG we could have easily won on another day.

Against Leipzig I don't understand how De Gea could be so asleep, and the defenders seem unable to know in what areas to defend early game. On the second goal we were just looking at the ball when we should have cleared it out to a corner.
Leipzig were much more clinical than us, we had several chances first half that should have gone in. Greenwood's especially. Leipzig had several strikers on the bench, we had Ighalo. We were unlucky to be missing both our main strikers due to small injuries and needing them to be ready for the derby on Saturday. We had a good amount of chances but we couldn't finish them. It could be down to experience.

In the league we have a good winrate now, and if we win the game in hand we are now 2 points off 1st, not bad atter that shaky start.


So yes, I like where we are heading as a club. I don't see any other manager I think would do a better job with this current squad. It needs continued experience and a few addons (like another CB which was reported early this year to be a goal for summer 2021).
What it needs is a manager who is able to motivate his players no matter who the opposition. Unfortunately we currently have someone who can raise us for a comeback and against top six sides but that's it.

He also clearly hasn't the guts to tell Woody that Carrick & McKenna just aren't up to the coaching level required and demand a proper defensive coach to sort out that shitshow at the back.

I wouldn't give him any more money in January because that should go to our next manager.
 

Flexdegea

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End of season. Unless some drastic is happening and we are snowballing.


I feel we have turned it around massively in the league after the bad start, plus finished very strongly last season. Deserves to end of season then we take stock how we are.

Its just so extreme at the moment the narrative around the manager.

He have to shoulder lot of blame for last night, set us up all wrong but then again that defending minute is was unforgivable, but its not the end of the world. Lot of peoples emotions running wild, understandable.

To be honest it's very tiring all this. Feels like a constant battle of extreme ups and downs not even reflective of the reality of the situation of where we are as a club or how we on the pitch half the time.
 

Adamsk7

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I’ve been Ole in from the outset but time is almost up. As soon as the league position drops, he’s got to go. Otherwise, keep him until the end of the season if we’re in and around the top four places.
 

devilish

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It doesn't counter my argument about RB Leipzig is good team and we are in the toughest group. The champion of Turkey Super League, Finalist of CL & Semi Finalist of CL.

United should not lose to Leipzig but football isn't like that. If football is so simple and determined by net transfer profit then Ole shouldn't beat Pep 3x last season and Bayern should have beat RB Leipzig last week not draw.

Leipzig is a team that run properly by the board. Notice how some of their main players were already in the club 5 years ago from 3 different managers. It shows you the club have structure, style of play they want to have in the club, know type of players they want to sign which makes the manager job easier because each manager inherited players that suits their system.
It does. Leipzig are a well run club but its still a small club with very limited resources whose usually a selling club. Nagelsmann would probably sell his mum if it allowed him to spend the 80m Ole spent on some average CB with zero pace. We are not in the CL because we lost against by the currently Turkish league 9th place team istanbul basaksehir ( who only won their respective league once throughout their entire history) and then we were 2-0 down in the first 15 minutes against a team whose most in form player happens to be a Manchester City loanee. That's unacceptable and border ridiculous


Manchester United, Bayern, Barcelona and brondby in our treble run season. Real Madrid, Tottenham Hotspur, Borussia Dortmund and APOEL in 2019 or Slavia Prague, Inter Milan, Borussia Dortmund,and FC Barcelona in 2017 are groups of death. Not this one.
 
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90 + 5min

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It is about if the team show progress. People are emotional right now because we are out of Champions League. But you evaluate things. Evaluate at the end of December. Evaluate in the summer. Is Solskjaer reaching our goals the club has set or not. How are team doing looking at our rivals.

We are still showing progress and there is no need to sack Solskjaer. We can't be doing our business because of feelings. We were wrong not giving Louis vanGaal more time and should not make same misstake now by sacking manager because of feelings.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It does. Leipzig are a well run club but its still a small club with very limited resources whose usually a selling club. Nagelsmann would probably sell his mum if it allowed him to spend the 80m Ole spent on some average CB with zero pace. We are not in the CL because we lost against by the currently Turkish league 9th place team istanbul basaksehir and who only won their respective league once throughout their entire history. Then we were 2-0 down in the first 15 minutes against a team whose most in form player happens to be a Manchester City loanee. That's unacceptable and border ridiculous

Manchester United, Bayern, Barcelona and brondby in our treble run season. Real Madrid, Tottenham Hotspur, Borussia Dortmund and APOEL in 2019 or Slavia Prague, Inter Milan, Borussia Dortmund,and FC Barcelona in 2017 are groups of death. Not this one.
Tells that to Bayern fans, why did they get a draw 3-3 against Leipzig last week. Based on your football logic, Bayern shouldn't be draw against Leipzig.

But again, it doesn't counter my argument about us being in hell group. The champion of Turkey Super League, Finalist of CL & Semi Finalist of CL. Tell me any tougher group than that this season?
 

Tom Cato

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According to transfermarkt Leipzig had registered a net transfer profit of around 7m during the 18/19 season and another net transfer profit of around 23m in the 2020/21 season. They registered a transfer loss of 31.50m euros during the 2019-2020 transfer window. In comparison United made a net transfer loss of 68.5m last summer, a net transfer loss of 145.6m the year before and a net transfer loss of 50m the year before that. Leipzig have 3 loaned players (Henrichs, Angelino and Kluivert) one of which is currently their top scorer and main assist man. Their current second joint top scorers are Poulsen who previously played for Lyngby and Forsberg who previously played with elite clubs like GIF Sundsvall and of course the great Molde. Meanwhile their manager is 33 years old which makes him younger then Grant, Cavani and Romero and few months older to Mata and Matic. Needless to say that Nagelsmann is younger then Ole and all his coaching staff (Phelan, Carrick, Mckenna, Dempsey, Pert, Blanco, Mawson, Clegg, Lawlor, Meredith and Hawkins)

United should be shitting in their pants at the prospect of meeting such great team. No wonder why they managed to outwit us in the CL. Surely we needed Sancho, Upamecano (Leipzig bought him for 2.2m) and Haaland for this game. We've set Ole to fail by not providing him with such players.
I mean, your ability to paint RB Leipzig as some backwater farmerteam is admirable.
 

Viral United

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I change my vote from Ole in to Ole out yesterday.
If you look at last 3 - 4 games, you can see some obvious errors and issues. And I think Ole should had resolved that issues.
I know we are in good shape in PL but its only based on some 30 min great team spirit, and as much I give credit to Ole, I have to blame him for 60 min of dreadful football.

He is making some silly mistake and it's cause us yesterday.
I love Ole but I think he has taken us as far as he can.

So do I want him to sack right now? No, but End of season we seriously need to take hard look.
If he get top 4 and CL football he deserved another season and proper backing, but any think less we should look for something else.
 

devilish

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Again, it doesn't counter my argument about us being in hell group. The champion of Turkey Super League, Finalist of CL & Semi Finalist of CL. Tell me any tougher group than that this season?
Again it was NOT a hell group. It was a group which we could have easily cruised by as second place. Istanbul Basaksehir had only won a league once throughout their entire history and are currently 9th place. Leipzig are a selling club whose best player is a Manchester City loanee. Despite Ole spending a looping 145m in that defence we were 2-0 down in the first 15 minutes. Tell me how that is acceptable
 

devilish

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I mean, your ability to paint RB Leipzig as some backwater farmerteam is admirable.
If I thought that then I wouldn't want any of their staff anywhere near to our team. In reality I want three. However let's be clear here. They are a small club with very limited resources who keep punching way above their weight. However let's call a spade for what it is. We had the resources to pass through that this group with ease and we failed.
 

ShoePolish

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People also seem to be forgetting that dire state was not normal, it was Mourinho giving up and actively pursuing his sack. Before that summer when he imploded we made 80+ points.

I don't get why people always must compare the current situation with Mourinho's lowest point as if that was how we usually were and Ole has saved us from that. No mate, this team had/has higher potential and its been proven there's no reason we should settle for less.

About him shifting the deadwood ruthless, that another myth that gets often repeated without substance. He sold Alexis, Darmian, Young, Smalling and Lukaku. The first two were definitely deadwood the latter 3 were/are not. We still have Rojo, Jones and now we can add Lingard and probably Bailly and James to that list.

I dont think getting rid of 2 deadwood players qualify as ruthless.
As I said, you can't look at just league position in Mourinho's time, the football, dressing room, everything about the club was a mess, that needed sorting. How many players he had already thrown under the bus in the 80+ season?

Young, Smalling and Lukaku not deadwood? Argument could be made about Smalling, perhaps, but you can tell how shit Young was, when his best attribute was being a good servant. Lukaku, let's just not get into that, there's a 100+ page thread on him already, that will stay a gray area even after he's retired, i'm just glad I don'°t have to see his arms out demanding ball to his feet, instead of making a tactical run or exasperated look after pass goes 5 yards in front of him or he's missed another sitter. Of the other 5, only James, and occassionally, Bailly, are in first team, the other 3 are nowhere near the first team, unless, by shifting deadwood, you meant players out of the club entirely, but that should come as no surprise, given their level/injury history and wages. So not sure how much of a myth it is, really.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Again it was NOT a hell group. It was a group which we could have easily cruised by as second place. Istanbul Basaksehir had only won a league once throughout their entire history and are currently 9th place. Leipzig are a selling club whose best player is a Manchester City loanee. Despite Ole spending a looping 145m in that defence we were 2-0 down in the first 15 minutes. Tell me how that is acceptable
How is it easy to be in the same group as the champion of Turkey Super League, Finalist of CL & Semi Finalist of CL? Tell me any tougher group than that this season?

Being 9th right now doesn't reflect anything about them. Season is judged based on full season and last season they were the champion of the Turkey Super League. Any team can be 9th right now but can still win the league. Now they are out of Europe, they are pretty much can focus on the league and then you can make fair judgment about them end of the season. So right now, they are still the title holder of the Turkey SL.

You want to talk about now not last season then let me tell you something Leipzig has won all their home matches this season and drew 3-3 against Bayern last week. Based on your football logic, Bayern shouldn't be draw against Leipzig. But football isn't like that isn't it?

I don't know what you are trying to argue to me here because I never say it was acceptable but my point about the hell group still stands because you haven't counter it at all.
 

bosnian_red

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you do talk some shite, AWB aint even in the top 5 full backs in the league, our LB and CB's the same, our midfield are woeful lets be honest, Matic, Fred, Mctomminay, Pogba. many times do we watch this team get dominated in the middle of the park, almost every week, our attack blow hot and cold all the time, Rashford and Martial time to perform every week or they need to go now, been around the first team long enough, cavani only a stop gap, Greenwood plenty of potential but it stops there, likes of mata, James, igahlo, rojo, jones just need let go from the club.
:lol: :lol: fecking hell you need some fresh air. I'm done with this you're clearly an overly dramatic child with no perspective
 

SAFMUTD

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As I said, you can't look at just league position in Mourinho's time, the football, dressing room, everything about the club was a mess, that needed sorting. How many players he had already thrown under the bus in the 80+ season?

Young, Smalling and Lukaku not deadwood? Argument could be made about Smalling, perhaps, but you can tell how shit Young was, when his best attribute was being a good servant. Lukaku, let's just not get into that, there's a 100+ page thread on him already, that will stay a gray area even after he's retired, i'm just glad I don'°t have to see his arms out demanding ball to his feet, instead of making a tactical run or exasperated look after pass goes 5 yards in front of him or he's missed another sitter. Of the other 5, only James, and occassionally, Bailly, are in first team, the other 3 are nowhere near the first team, unless, by shifting deadwood, you meant players out of the club entirely, but that should come as no surprise, given their level/injury history and wages. So not sure how much of a myth it is, really.
That plays even more in my arguments favor, even with a toxic place with players being thrown under the bus we achieved 80 points, think about that. Where's the merit on getting less points? Unless we grade our coaches on working environment happiness rather than results.

Young was a starter and Lukaku was a pretty useful player, the definition of deadwood is a player that its of no use whatsoever, they not being good enough to starters doesn't make them deadwood.

By that logic any manager that has sold any player who was not a nailed starter was ruthlessly getting rid of deadwood as well.

The 5 I mention are the definition of deadwood players who only collect wages and are of no use. Those are the ones we should have got rid buth instead ruthless Ole gave, or at least approved, Jones a new contract for 5 years, let that sink in.
 
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Group of hell :lol:

What was our 99 group if this was “hell”.
Hahhahaha

One of this “hell” group has never even won a league title in their entire existence and has a net spend of 8m euros for the past 2 Summer windows.

“hell”.
 

gerdm07

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I give him until the end of the season unless we have a string of really bad results and it looks like he lost the clubhouse. I don't think that will happen.

At the end of the season if we've seen overall improvement in our play and in our results, he stays. That probably means 4th or better and playing attractive football consistently, and getting to at least to the semi's for a trophy or two.
 

Murray3007

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:lol: :lol: fecking hell you need some fresh air. I'm done with this you're clearly an overly dramatic child with no perspective
done because you clearly no you are wrong.

i'll make this simple for you and you will see how bang average and overrated this squad is, lets say Liverpool, City, PSG, Bayern, Juventus, Barca and Real and the best clubs at the moment, many of those teams do you think would attempt to buy any player from our squad if they all put in Transfer requests? Bruno, Pogba for his commercial value, Rashford at a real push, Greenwood for his potential that's it.
 

romufc

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Again it was NOT a hell group. It was a group which we could have easily cruised by as second place. Istanbul Basaksehir had only won a league once throughout their entire history and are currently 9th place. Leipzig are a selling club whose best player is a Manchester City loanee. Despite Ole spending a looping 145m in that defence we were 2-0 down in the first 15 minutes. Tell me how that is acceptable

This is a funny narrative. When we played Leipzig first we were 12th they were top of their league. Selling club or not, they are top of the Bundesliga ahead of mighty Bayern.

Istanbul are actually 4th in their league.

Their best player is City Loanee? is that why clubs are looking at spending £60m for Upamecano?
 

devilish

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How is it easy to be in the same group as the champion of Turkey Super League, Finalist of CL & Semi Finalist of CL? Tell me any tougher group than that this season?

Being 9th right now doesn't reflect anything about them. Season is judged based on full season and last season they were the champion of the Turkey Super League. Any team can be 9th right now but can still win the league. Now they are out of Europe, they are pretty much can focus on the league and then you can make fair judgment about them end of the season. So right now, they are still the title holder of the Turkey SL.

You want to talk about now not last season then let me tell you something Leipzig has won all their home matches this season and drew 3-3 against Bayern last week. Based on your football logic, Bayern shouldn't be draw against Leipzig. But football isn't like that isn't it?

I don't know what you are trying to argue to me here because I never say it was acceptable but my point about the hell group still stands because you haven't counter it at all.
You'll keep repeating the same sentence again and again without bothering to go deeper into the situation? So we already discussed that the İstanbul Başakşehir Futbol Kulübü (whose younger then Nagelsmann btw) is a one in a lifetime wonder having won just 1 league throughout their history and are currently at 9 place. We also discussed how Leipzig are a well run but painfully small club as well. They never won the Bundesliga and their transfer budget is a small EPL club level. We should have cruised through second place.

But let's have a look at last year CL run

Leipzig had beaten Spurs ie the biggest bottlers in EPL history. They were also without Kane, Son, Bergwijn and Sissoko. Then they beaten A Madrid. Last season A Madrid ended up 3rd, 17 points away from Real. Then they had their arse handled to them by PSG. That's a great achievement for them considering their financial power etc but its hardly a great achievement in terms football as a whole.
 

the chameleon

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I love Ole as a player. Forever grateful for that vivid moment in 99. But as a manager, he should be nowhere near our club. It was fine as caretaker. But he can't even manage Cardiff and nearly got them relegated twice.

The fact is, you can't polish a turd. This is what we keep doing with the constant excuse making.
 

RedBanker

I love you Ole
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According to transfermarkt Leipzig had registered a net transfer profit of around 7m during the 18/19 season and another net transfer profit of around 23m in the 2020/21 season. They registered a transfer loss of 31.50m euros during the 2019-2020 transfer window. In comparison United made a net transfer loss of 68.5m last summer, a net transfer loss of 145.6m the year before and a net transfer loss of 50m the year before that. Leipzig have 3 loaned players (Henrichs, Angelino and Kluivert) one of which is currently their top scorer and main assist man. Their current second joint top scorers are Poulsen who previously played for Lyngby and Forsberg who previously played with elite clubs like GIF Sundsvall and of course the great Molde. Meanwhile their manager is 33 years old which makes him younger then Grant, Cavani and Romero and few months older to Mata and Matic. Needless to say that Nagelsmann is younger then Ole and all his coaching staff (Phelan, Carrick, Mckenna, Dempsey, Pert, Blanco, Mawson, Clegg, Lawlor, Meredith and Hawkins)

United should be shitting in their pants at the prospect of meeting such great team. No wonder why they managed to outwit us in the CL. Surely we needed Sancho, Upamecano (Leipzig bought him for 2.2m) and Haaland for this game. We've set Ole to fail by not providing him with such players.
Superb post!!
 

devilish

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This is a funny narrative. When we played Leipzig first we were 12th they were top of their league. Selling club or not, they are top of the Bundesliga ahead of mighty Bayern.

Istanbul are actually 4th in their league.

Their best player is City Loanee? is that why clubs are looking at spending £60m for Upamecano?
The German league is a one horse race. Bayern has been winning the league on a regular basis with few rare dips along the way since the 90s. If Leipzig are such a great side then surely they would had won at least 1 league title throughout their history. How many leagues did Istanbul won throughout their history btw?. Let me help you out. Combined (Leipzig and Istanbul) they had won 1 league title. Leipzig are currently 3rd, Istanbul are currently 9th

Angelino is currently the club's top scorer (7 goals) and assist man (5 assist). Former Molde player Forsberg and former Lyngby BK player Poulson are joint second top scorers with 4 goals. Upamecano was bought by Leipzig for 2.2m euros. That's around 39 times less expensive then the CB with no pace, Ole brought in from Leicester.

I analysed Leipzig transfer expenditure in the past years. Let's do the same for mighty Istanbul. This summer they had a net spent of 6.5m euros, last year they had a net spent of 6.15m euros and the year before they had a net spent of 1m euros. Combined that's less to what Ole spent on Daniel James.

https://int.soccerway.com/national/turkey/super-lig/20202021/regular-season/r59187/


Group of hell indeed.
 
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M Bison

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I remain "Ole in" and would give him until the end of the season. He's sorted out some problems and cleared a lot of the crap out, hopefully he does the same with Pogba too, by which point we'll have a decent point to work from.

Seems ridiculous to me sacking him now, we've seen with the other three managers and in particular Mourinho, that its not a simple/quick fix. I get last night was disappointing and we've not set the league on fire as yet this season but sacking at this point seems wrong
 
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Seems ridiculous to me sacking him now, we've seen with the other three managers and in particular Mourinho, that its not a simple/quick fix. I get last night was disappointing and we've not set the league on fire as yet this season but sacking at this point seems wrong
Thinking it’s about a quick fix is ridiculous.

I think we’ve done some good groundwork as a club, Ole included, these past 2 years so I think the next manager, if we chose right, will be an evolution to our next phase.
 

Flexdegea

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:lol: :lol: fecking hell you need some fresh air. I'm done with this you're clearly an overly dramatic child with no perspective

So many folk like your man who literally talk the way he posts,


Some would say them sort of things and st same time say manager needs to go, either one or the other. Just emotional dramatics.
 

romufc

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The German league is a one horse race. Bayern has been winning the league on a regular basis with few rare dips along the way since the 90s. If Leipzig are such a great side then surely they would had won at least 1 league title throughout their history. How many leagues did Istanbul won throughout their history btw?. Let me help you out. Combined (Leipzig and Istanbul) they had won 1 league title. Leipzig are currently 3rd, Istanbul are currently 9th

Angelino is currently the club's top scorer (7 goals) and assist man (5 assist). Former Molde player Forsberg and former Lyngby BK player Poulson are joint second top scorers with 4 goals. Upamecano was bought by Leipzig for 2.2m euros. That's around 39 times less expensive then the CB with no pace, Ole brought in from Leicester.

https://int.soccerway.com/national/turkey/super-lig/20202021/regular-season/r59187/


Group of hell indeed.
Just to educate you a little. Leipzig was founded in 2009. Istanbul only got to the higher division in 2008.

Are you that naive? this is a team that has been consistently performing well in the German league over the past few years, we have seen how good they are in the CL in the last 2 seasons.

So ? PSG should win the CL every year because they have the most expensive squad?

Teams look at recent history, in which we are no where near those levels. If we got AC Milan in the group over Leipzig it wouldn't make it a harder group because they won league titles in the 90's, it would be an easier group because they have been shit in the last few years.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Amazing the narrative difference between Ole and other PL managers isn't it?

He's currently 3pts behind Lampard's Chelsea with a game in hand. Lampard can do no wrong in most people's eyes and we have a 'PE teacher'. And we finished narrowly ahead of them in July too.

He's also currently ahead of Pep who is one of the greatest of all time and managing a better team than we are currently. And we're 5pts behind Liverpool with a game in hand.

I don't think our fanbase or the media are being fair to Ole whatsoever. We probably have the 3rd or 4th most talented group of players in the division. So why do we expect so much of him?
 
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Amazing the narrative difference between Ole and other PL managers isn't it?

He's currently 3pts behind Lampard's Chelsea with a game in hand. Lampard can do no wrong in most people's eyes and we have a 'PE teacher'. And we finished narrowly ahead of them in July too.

He's also currently ahead of Pep who is one of the greatest of all time and managing a better team than we are currently. And we're 5pts behind Liverpool with a game in hand.

I don't think our fanbase or the media are being fair to Ole whatsoever. We probably have the 3rd or 4th most talented group of players in the division. So why do we expect so much of him?
Lampard has qualified from his CL group and has had a steady consistent season, whereas we’ve once again been all over the shop. Starting shit in the league, but excellent in CL, and now we’ve switched that around.
 

RedBanker

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Just cultists logic.
When we beat RBL OGS>>>NAGELSMANN
When RBL dumped our asses out of the CL
RBL SQUAD>>>>>OUR SQUAD.