I'd argue not week to week but we look a different team within each game. Even today we were sublime going forward but rookies in defence. Should have scored 10 and could have easily conceded 4 goals. Seemed we looked like conceding every time Leeds were in our area. Its' been the story of our season.
3rd but we are supposedly crap
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
What an odd reply. That's like me suggesting we should have signed a top centre back and in return I hear "not like Van Dijk has ever conceded a goal".
The problem isn't always missing chances as much as it is creating any chances.
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Which we're doing great at without him. So get with it
Our defense is still crap 
luckily Sheffield and Leeds are shit at finishing most of the time they had a go at us.
Our finishing is also still crap as does other glaring issues...
Why so happy with the results against two shit teams. Scoreline seems to suggest we dominated the game, not really. We dominated the scoreline, but not the performances on the pitch. I mean we didn't control the game. Their defense is so bad and playing way too high line which suits us giving us plenty of spaces. We also didn't control the tempo of the game.. yes I know we're not interested in doing that. Did we even dominate possession? I remember Leeds dominate possession in this game. They had plenty. We could've control the game by dominating possession and strong defense, killing the game but the fact we couldn't against two supposedly shit teams seems to suggest there are problems... or we're just not good at it. That's embarrassing. We should've killed the game so much so they gave up but they didn't because of how easy attacking through our crap defense is so the hope to score is there. Our finishing is again terrible. Should've score more in both games. Other teams have better defense and won't let us had those many chances.
The league is crap this season, and thankfully we hit increasing good form as the other teams are turning crap. Our standards are still so low, I don't see the need to be happy about it. I do feel content of course so far. Surely this team could and should go more than this.
This kind of thread pop up every time we get "amazing results", I believe it's called reactionary thread or something.
luckily Sheffield and Leeds are shit at finishing most of the time they had a go at us.Our finishing is also still crap as does other glaring issues...
Why so happy with the results against two shit teams. Scoreline seems to suggest we dominated the game, not really. We dominated the scoreline, but not the performances on the pitch. I mean we didn't control the game. Their defense is so bad and playing way too high line which suits us giving us plenty of spaces. We also didn't control the tempo of the game.. yes I know we're not interested in doing that. Did we even dominate possession? I remember Leeds dominate possession in this game. They had plenty. We could've control the game by dominating possession and strong defense, killing the game but the fact we couldn't against two supposedly shit teams seems to suggest there are problems... or we're just not good at it. That's embarrassing. We should've killed the game so much so they gave up but they didn't because of how easy attacking through our crap defense is so the hope to score is there. Our finishing is again terrible. Should've score more in both games. Other teams have better defense and won't let us had those many chances.
The league is crap this season, and thankfully we hit increasing good form as the other teams are turning crap. Our standards are still so low, I don't see the need to be happy about it. I do feel content of course so far. Surely this team could and should go more than this.
This kind of thread pop up every time we get "amazing results", I believe it's called reactionary thread or something.
United have been frustrating, not crap, because of their inconsistencies. Results and individual/team performance. That's part of maturing and finding your feet when pre-season was non-existent and you have some expectations placed on you.
Still so much to play for in the month, let alone the season. But also, there's been a distinct lack of disrespect Ole and his team have consistently received, which have been way over the top.
Still so much to play for in the month, let alone the season. But also, there's been a distinct lack of disrespect Ole and his team have consistently received, which have been way over the top.
Bravo
We get it...you won't accept anything this team does until they win the league with 100 points and thrashing teams by 3 goals, in addition to winning the treble every other year.Our defense is still crap
Our finishing is also still crap as does other glaring issues...
Why so happy with the results against two shit teams. Scoreline seems to suggest we dominated the game, not really. We dominated the scoreline, but not the performances on the pitch. I mean we didn't control the game. Their defense is so bad and playing way too high line which suits us giving us plenty of spaces. We also didn't control the tempo of the game.. yes I know we're not interested in doing that. Did we even dominate possession? I remember Leeds dominate possession in this game. They had plenty. We could've control the game by dominating possession and strong defense, killing the game but the fact we couldn't against two supposedly shit teams seems to suggest there are problems... or we're just not good at it. That's embarrassing. We should've killed the game so much so they gave up but they didn't because of how easy attacking through our crap defense is so the hope to score is there. Our finishing is again terrible. Should've score more in both games. Other teams have better defense and won't let us had those many chances.
The league is crap this season, and thankfully we hit increasing good form as the other teams are turning crap. Our standards are still so low, I don't see the need to be happy about it. I do feel content of course so far. Surely this team could and should go more than this.
This kind of thread pop up every time we get "amazing results", I believe it's called reactionary thread or something.
Getting carried away?But Ole got the vibes!!
So great that we had scored 1 goal from open play at home before today...
Great! Do we get the 3rd place trophy and midseason at that? Joking aside:
Let's not jump the gun here, threads like these should be reserved for the end of the season. Didn't you learn anything from those "we are going to top the CL group" or "Maguire and Lindelof vs Hipster CBs" threads
Contrary to the posters here who claim that we're top of the table since jan and things are rosy, I still think that we have some major issues that our current form is papering the cracks over and I'll go over them and I'll go over them from the most to the least important.
1. We bottle it every time the pressure is on - The 3 semi-finals last year and the CL group this year is a clear indicator of that. We simply needed 1 point from any of the remaining 2 games, and we got 0 instead. Don't even get me started on how Ole set up for the final game vs Leipzig. Morale is a trickle down thing. It starts with the manager and it trickles down to the players. SAF recognized this and this early on and this is why he won everything under the sun.
2. Bruno - he really should be number 1 on this list that's how important his is to our team. Exaggeration?
The only reason we finished 3rd last season is because of this man. Do you remember the shite football we played before him. 80% of this place was Ole Out before he arrived. And after his arrival we magically morphed into this attacking team that actually could score goals. It got so good that the posters here were bemoaning the covid shutdown. So it wasn't a purple patch either. After the restart we looked really good. The thing to take away here is if Bruno plays well, the whole team plays well. If he's gash we look dazed and uninspired.
And it wasn't just goals either. His winning mentality and infectious attitude rubbed on everyone at the club. Suddenly all of our players who looked like deadwood before started pulling their weight. Martial, Rashford and even Pogba all looked reinvigorated. He also didn't let standards drop and expected nothing like the best from his teammates. He became our de facto captain.
I don't think we've been this reliant on a player since Ronaldo. His impact is bigger than Ronaldo's though. I would compare him to Cantona at this point. Eric brought so much more to the team than just goals. So does Bruno. You take him out of our starting line up and we'll struggle to finish 6th.
I'm 100% certain he's the only reason Ole still has a job. God forbid he get's injured till the end of the season and you're going to see a quick change of attitude on this forum.
3. CMs being played out of position - be it Fred, Mctominnay or Pogba all of the are played out of position most of the time. Today was a clear indicator that McTominnay isn't a CDM, he is more of natural 8. He has his best games when he's allowed to roam, especially if afforded the space. Think of Barca a couple of seasons back where he was our MOTM.
So are Fred and so is Pogba. They're both 8's as well. But for some inexplicable reason they either get played in a double pivot or as CDMs.
I will cut Ole some slack on this one since we already signed a lot of players this summer and we simply didn't have time to address this issue. But if we don't sign another CDM this summer, this is going to be a huge issue next year. Especially now that Matic's legs are gone.
There are a couple of other issues as as well, but these look like the most pressing ones right now.
Let's not jump the gun here, threads like these should be reserved for the end of the season. Didn't you learn anything from those "we are going to top the CL group" or "Maguire and Lindelof vs Hipster CBs" threads
Contrary to the posters here who claim that we're top of the table since jan and things are rosy, I still think that we have some major issues that our current form is papering the cracks over and I'll go over them and I'll go over them from the most to the least important.
1. We bottle it every time the pressure is on - The 3 semi-finals last year and the CL group this year is a clear indicator of that. We simply needed 1 point from any of the remaining 2 games, and we got 0 instead. Don't even get me started on how Ole set up for the final game vs Leipzig. Morale is a trickle down thing. It starts with the manager and it trickles down to the players. SAF recognized this and this early on and this is why he won everything under the sun.
2. Bruno - he really should be number 1 on this list that's how important his is to our team. Exaggeration?
The only reason we finished 3rd last season is because of this man. Do you remember the shite football we played before him. 80% of this place was Ole Out before he arrived. And after his arrival we magically morphed into this attacking team that actually could score goals. It got so good that the posters here were bemoaning the covid shutdown. So it wasn't a purple patch either. After the restart we looked really good. The thing to take away here is if Bruno plays well, the whole team plays well. If he's gash we look dazed and uninspired.
And it wasn't just goals either. His winning mentality and infectious attitude rubbed on everyone at the club. Suddenly all of our players who looked like deadwood before started pulling their weight. Martial, Rashford and even Pogba all looked reinvigorated. He also didn't let standards drop and expected nothing like the best from his teammates. He became our de facto captain.
I don't think we've been this reliant on a player since Ronaldo. His impact is bigger than Ronaldo's though. I would compare him to Cantona at this point. Eric brought so much more to the team than just goals. So does Bruno. You take him out of our starting line up and we'll struggle to finish 6th.
I'm 100% certain he's the only reason Ole still has a job. God forbid he get's injured till the end of the season and you're going to see a quick change of attitude on this forum.
3. CMs being played out of position - be it Fred, Mctominnay or Pogba all of the are played out of position most of the time. Today was a clear indicator that McTominnay isn't a CDM, he is more of natural 8. He has his best games when he's allowed to roam, especially if afforded the space. Think of Barca a couple of seasons back where he was our MOTM.
So are Fred and so is Pogba. They're both 8's as well. But for some inexplicable reason they either get played in a double pivot or as CDMs.
I will cut Ole some slack on this one since we already signed a lot of players this summer and we simply didn't have time to address this issue. But if we don't sign another CDM this summer, this is going to be a huge issue next year. Especially now that Matic's legs are gone.
There are a couple of other issues as as well, but these look like the most pressing ones right now.
You need to take a break and enjoy watching football again. This is overly negative for the sake of it.Our defense is still crap
Our finishing is also still crap as does other glaring issues...
Why so happy with the results against two shit teams. Scoreline seems to suggest we dominated the game, not really. We dominated the scoreline, but not the performances on the pitch. I mean we didn't control the game. Their defense is so bad and playing way too high line which suits us giving us plenty of spaces. We also didn't control the tempo of the game.. yes I know we're not interested in doing that. Did we even dominate possession? I remember Leeds dominate possession in this game. They had plenty. We could've control the game by dominating possession and strong defense, killing the game but the fact we couldn't against two supposedly shit teams seems to suggest there are problems... or we're just not good at it. That's embarrassing. We should've killed the game so much so they gave up but they didn't because of how easy attacking through our crap defense is so the hope to score is there. Our finishing is again terrible. Should've score more in both games. Other teams have better defense and won't let us had those many chances.
The league is crap this season, and thankfully we hit increasing good form as the other teams are turning crap. Our standards are still so low, I don't see the need to be happy about it. I do feel content of course so far. Surely this team could and should go more than this.
This kind of thread pop up every time we get "amazing results", I believe it's called reactionary thread or something.
The fecking game was dead 20 mins in today
That is pretty crazy right ? How can he if he is sacked.
You are spot on mate.
I had my share of doubts about Ole but we are pretty consistent since january last year and I have never enjoyed it more since Fergie.
We are a work in progress. We have a very young exciting team which will get better and better.
Ole did a very good job by clearing the deadwood and I think we will buy more quality players and get ride of the deadwood soon as well as of not so good players (Lingard, Rojo, Jones, Matic, Mata will be gone sooner or later...Matic and Mata are not that bad but I believe they will be massively upgraded).
What I like the most is the mentality of the group. We can see all the players are behind Ole and will give their all. No matter if we lose or get battered one game, we will fight back the next. The players saved Ole few times since he is here and that say it all. They will fight for him, believe in him, love him. Never seen that for a long time in this club. It is very positive and I don't see what good can happen if a manager loved by his team is fired...
Said it before, if we’d actually had a pre-season we’d be a few points better off. Fantastic last 7 games.
What am I supposed to learn? I dont need or request your approval in how I support my club. Hope thats OK with ya.Great! Do we get the 3rd place trophy and midseason at that? Joking aside:
Let's not jump the gun here, threads like these should be reserved for the end of the season. Didn't you learn anything from those "we are going to top the CL group" or "Maguire and Lindelof vs Hipster CBs" threads
Love seeing Keane giddy over United but I think Jimmy's spot on here.
Man, this kind of replies using hyperbolic accusations is often made by people who don't want to see nor admit our weaknesses. It'll show again next game against better teams or even comparable shit teams.I accept the improvement of forms among other improved things made by the players and coaches so far. It's good and fun. Sustainable? not seeing that. But it's so easy to get carried away with this and not seeing the problems that are still present. It's like improving one thing temporarily but not the other. Improving it as close to permanently should be the plan.
The thing is, I still feel like we could improve more than nearly every other team in the league...
If we can win the next few games in particular, we have a real chance (Leicester, Wolves, Villa are all tough opponents coming up). If we win them, or get say 7 Points, surely the board has to take a risk in January?
If we were to finish the season say less than 10 Points off the winners, I'd hate to be left wondering: "What if we just got those couple of extra good players in January?" There has to be room when we could move on Lingard, Rojo, Jones and Ighalo.
If we can win the next few games in particular, we have a real chance (Leicester, Wolves, Villa are all tough opponents coming up). If we win them, or get say 7 Points, surely the board has to take a risk in January?
If we were to finish the season say less than 10 Points off the winners, I'd hate to be left wondering: "What if we just got those couple of extra good players in January?" There has to be room when we could move on Lingard, Rojo, Jones and Ighalo.
No need to get so sensitive sweetheart. This was meant as tongue in cheek humor. Excuse me for expecting a Brit to actually get it.
Plus the Grand National, Boat Race, British Open and Strictly Come Dancing!
How in the feck is he? If big teams sit back against us and we continue our great run v non top 6 sides, where do we drop a lot of points this season?
What a strange comment from Hasselbaink. Criticizing United for capitalizing on Leeds mistakes? 99% of games are won by that.
He makes a valid point about us drawing against City but it's a lazy comment in general as it was the intended approach.
I'm happy for people to call us crap whilst we sneak under the radar.
I agree that we can improve more than any other top team in the PL. As I wrote in the OP, we haven’t really hit our stride yet, still make some idiotic unforced errors (includes Ole) and have some players still struggling for form.
And yet we’ve managed to get ourselves right into the mix as Xmas approaches.
Hopefully these league wins will solidly the team confidence so we eliminate the unforced errors and Woody gets a reliable fast ball playing centre back in January who can have a ‘Bruno level impact’, and then we should really hit the road sprinting.
I don't get how it's an outlandish view on Jimmy's part. I don't see how we're "better than the rest" at this stage when we finished 3rd last season and are only in December this season. To make such a claim, we'd need to be ahead of everyone except Liverpool and, in JFH's opinion, our inability to consistently win games when dominating opponents instead of relying on counters will hinder us from achieving that, and I think he has a fair point.
United do have weaknesses, just like other teams. But how can something be sustainable if it's not consistent nor given time. And by that I mean the individual players, not the manager.
I accept the improvement of forms among other improved things made by the players and coaches so far. It's good and fun. Sustainable? not seeing that. But it's so easy to get carried away with this and not seeing the problems that are still present. It's like improving one thing temporarily but not the other. Improving it as close to permanently should be the plan.
So Martial isn't good enough, nor is Rashford, or Greenwood. Well either replace them with the money United don't have or play them because that's what you got, good and bad. 2nd season Rashford is relied upon to bag goals and hit at least 20. Same with Martial in a center forward role. Greenwood is still very young and finding his feet now that teams know his strengths and tendencies. Cavani is a short term solution.
United don't have a reliable 3rd CB. Their two starting CBs don't have top end pace. AWB isn't good enough going forward or with the ball. United are short at least one CM. United are short one consistent goal scorer and one right sided player. And this is even before questioning the manager and coaches.
So while not everything is perfect, United are still a good team and the mentality and attitude is very good.
Counters is a lazy meme that needs to die. We come back from behind against sides too often for it to be true.
We have gone from basic counters to honestly fantastic movement.
feck me
Point 1 is simply not true. We played against Leicester for a Champions League place in the last match of the season last year and we won. It was a more important match then anyone you were refering to. Easy to forget I suppose... By the way, a winning mentality is build through loses and successes. So give it some time mate. Klopp was losing I don't know how many finales before he won some. I am sure our team, manager included, os learning and getting there.Great! Do we get the 3rd place trophy and midseason at that? Joking aside:
Let's not jump the gun here, threads like these should be reserved for the end of the season. Didn't you learn anything from those "we are going to top the CL group" or "Maguire and Lindelof vs Hipster CBs" threads
Contrary to the posters here who claim that we're top of the table since jan and things are rosy, I still think that we have some major issues that our current form is papering the cracks over and I'll go over them and I'll go over them from the most to the least important.
1. We bottle it every time the pressure is on - The 3 semi-finals last year and the CL group this year is a clear indicator of that. We simply needed 1 point from any of the remaining 2 games, and we got 0 instead. Don't even get me started on how Ole set up for the final game vs Leipzig. Morale is a trickle down thing. It starts with the manager and it trickles down to the players. SAF recognized this and this early on and this is why he won everything under the sun.
2. Bruno - he really should be number 1 on this list that's how important his is to our team. Exaggeration?
The only reason we finished 3rd last season is because of this man. Do you remember the shite football we played before him. 80% of this place was Ole Out before he arrived. And after his arrival we magically morphed into this attacking team that actually could score goals. It got so good that the posters here were bemoaning the covid shutdown. So it wasn't a purple patch either. After the restart we looked really good. The thing to take away here is if Bruno plays well, the whole team plays well. If he's gash we look dazed and uninspired.
And it wasn't just goals either. His winning mentality and infectious attitude rubbed on everyone at the club. Suddenly all of our players who looked like deadwood before started pulling their weight. Martial, Rashford and even Pogba all looked reinvigorated. He also didn't let standards drop and expected nothing like the best from his teammates. He became our de facto captain.
I don't think we've been this reliant on a player since Ronaldo. His impact is bigger than Ronaldo's though. I would compare him to Cantona at this point. Eric brought so much more to the team than just goals. So does Bruno. You take him out of our starting line up and we'll struggle to finish 6th.
I'm 100% certain he's the only reason Ole still has a job. God forbid he get's injured till the end of the season and you're going to see a quick change of attitude on this forum.
3. CMs being played out of position - be it Fred, Mctominnay or Pogba all of the are played out of position most of the time. Today was a clear indicator that McTominnay isn't a CDM, he is more of natural 8. He has his best games when he's allowed to roam, especially if afforded the space. Think of Barca a couple of seasons back where he was our MOTM.
So are Fred and so is Pogba. They're both 8's as well. But for some inexplicable reason they either get played in a double pivot or as CDMs.
I will cut Ole some slack on this one since we already signed a lot of players this summer and we simply didn't have time to address this issue. But if we don't sign another CDM this summer, this is going to be a huge issue next year. Especially now that Matic's legs are gone.
There are a couple of other issues as as well, but these look like the most pressing ones right now.
Point 2. Ole cannot win with Bruno. Never seen such a succesfull signing since Cantona. Would you say Fergie was crap because he did not won the league when Cantona was suspended ? Or would you praise him because he saw the player he was and bought him ? Teams are always dependent on their best players. Look at Messi and Barcelona, Madrid without Ronaldo... Best players make a difference, if they were replaceable they will not be the bests.
Point 3 I think it is really hard to see tactics when the game is on. We have no idea about instructions. How the game goes is a different reality then how it was planned. Sometimes players can't do what they are supposed to for whatever reason. Sometimes it is obvious of course (like the Kanté position under Sarri) but most of the time I believe it is not because we are not insiders. Sure Ole is doing mistakes, but not as much as the Ole outers are saying I think. I sure Ole will want a better defensive midfielder but there is other priorities as well and we are well stocked in that departement (6 players for 3 positions), our strongest on the pitch, so I can see that is not as urgent as attack and defense.
I doubt there are teams who think we are shit, Chelsea and City didn't go at us like they usually do so they've learned not to leave too much space behind.
That said, I am quite surprised with Leeds full attacking mode today. It's a good thing for us anyway.
That said, I am quite surprised with Leeds full attacking mode today. It's a good thing for us anyway.
True, but the problem is when we're not losing and still dominating play, we lack, how to put it, the urgency(?) to break teams down.
When we concede, it's like a lightbulb switches on and we transform into another team. If Ole can get us playing with that mindset from the get go on a consistent basis, I think we're in business. Hopefully!
Id also argue we have gone behind in the majority of our games stupidly early for this to be too big of a factor.
I do think its a freak run of conceding first. Its just not nornal.
I don't think that's the case. We have no issue creating chances, the problem is we tend to concede very first half chance Opposition gets. For example Southampton had a number of good chances in first half against City, but somehow they managed to win with a clean sheet. We would've been 2 down surely. I don't know how they do it.
Easy there OP. We're on a great run and in a great position but it's still only one third of the season gone. Let's enjoy this and hope we can find some consistency, which is where we've tended to come short. Too early for such posts now (or the champions league one as someone pointed out earlier). I think we're united in hoping this continues and we finally mount a title challenge.
Regardless of rather our management is up to sratch long term, our defence badly needs sorting. We look like conceding almost every time the opposition come forward. Corners are a nightmare.
Time to put you on ignoreOur defense is still crap
Our finishing is also still crap as does other glaring issues...
Why so happy with the results against two shit teams. Scoreline seems to suggest we dominated the game, not really. We dominated the scoreline, but not the performances on the pitch. I mean we didn't control the game. Their defense is so bad and playing way too high line which suits us giving us plenty of spaces. We also didn't control the tempo of the game.. yes I know we're not interested in doing that. Did we even dominate possession? I remember Leeds dominate possession in this game. They had plenty. We could've control the game by dominating possession and strong defense, killing the game but the fact we couldn't against two supposedly shit teams seems to suggest there are problems... or we're just not good at it. That's embarrassing. We should've killed the game so much so they gave up but they didn't because of how easy attacking through our crap defense is so the hope to score is there. Our finishing is again terrible. Should've score more in both games. Other teams have better defense and won't let us had those many chances.
The league is crap this season, and thankfully we hit increasing good form as the other teams are turning crap. Our standards are still so low, I don't see the need to be happy about it. I do feel content of course so far. Surely this team could and should go more than this.
This kind of thread pop up every time we get "amazing results", I believe it's called reactionary thread or something.
Fair points!
Reminds me of Sir Alex's last season. It felt like we went behind in the majority of our games that season. That helped produce some very entertaining and memorable comebacks!
Out of all outfield players today, only Shaw and Fred have not scored a goal in Premier League this season. I find that interesting, especially for a team who relies on one player do much.
If we include subs that's 3 (+ Telles).
If we include subs that's 3 (+ Telles).
Embarrassing thread we’ve played 13 games in the premier league.
Ole in or out should not even be a question yet.
Ole in or out should not even be a question yet.
If we beat Leicester next week it starts to look very interesting.
Don't think our defence is good enough to give us more than an outside chance, but no reason why we shouldn't try and go for it. It's as good a chance as anyone other than Liverpool will have at this point.
I also think our defence can improve a bit without needing a major signing as a lot of the problems seem to be a confidence issue rather than ability. If they can get a few clean sheets they might be able to build a bit of assertiveness from that.
Going forwards we just open teams up with ease even when half our forwards don't turn up. Martial and Greenwood haven't fired all season and Cavani has barely been fit, and yet we're second top scorers and look like scoring in any game we can get the ball forwards.
Don't think our defence is good enough to give us more than an outside chance, but no reason why we shouldn't try and go for it. It's as good a chance as anyone other than Liverpool will have at this point.
I also think our defence can improve a bit without needing a major signing as a lot of the problems seem to be a confidence issue rather than ability. If they can get a few clean sheets they might be able to build a bit of assertiveness from that.
Going forwards we just open teams up with ease even when half our forwards don't turn up. Martial and Greenwood haven't fired all season and Cavani has barely been fit, and yet we're second top scorers and look like scoring in any game we can get the ball forwards.