Yet you want a supposedly weaker manager to win things in less time than "the best manager in the world".
Did you read what you've typed there? You expect a worse manager to win in a shorter time span? Really?
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
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Did you read what you've typed there? You expect a worse manager to win in a shorter time span? Really?
Yes, two billion. So you didn't have any arguments? I thought so.
Name a team that wins their league but isn't dominating their games and possession in general.
Not at all. Fergies teams dominated games. Carrick especially picked up every second ball. They had control. A bit like Klopp's team. Ole's doesn't have control.
Not at all. Fergies teams dominated games. Carrick especially picked up every second ball. They had control. A bit like Klopp's team. Ole's doesnät have control.
He has a generally weak SQUAD compared to how well they are performing. Very good first eleven but not much after that. Do they even have more than two fullbacks? Their midfield isn't even better than United's, yet we hear "Ole need better players!" and yes, they have two great attackers. Two. We have five keepers who are better than their second. Their center backs aren't anything special apart from Van Dijk, who has been injured all season. Klopp is a manager who gets everything out of his players, compared to Ole who doesn't. Their squad is worse than both Chelseas and Citys.
Someone doesn't agree with your vision - he's a troll! Learn football, then come back. I will be proven right, and you wrong.
Klopp had a playing style. Ole doesn't. Also, Ole is having one of the best squads in the league.
I just don't rate Ole. You can just read Michael Cox arguments, he isn't tactically clever enough. His set up is mostly poor. I can't even remember the last time we were great for 90 minutes. Happy xmas!
I think his point is that you’ve inflated Ole’s spending by almost 10x
Ignore them @Mickson, don’t let facts get in the way of a good story.
We have been doing well so far this season in the PL after a terrible start. We need to keep this momentum especially on Saturday against Leicester. Ole needs to prove that he is good enough for Manchester United. That means he has to win a trophy and quickly and get us challenging for the PL this season.
Don't compare him to Klopp or Pep because even before they came to the PL they have already won the League in big leagues like La Liga and the Bundesliga.
Don't compare him to Klopp or Pep because even before they came to the PL they have already won the League in big leagues like La Liga and the Bundesliga.
If he had any facts, that is.
Let's talk facts because every fact actually points to Ole not being good enough. So tell me, what's good enough? Losing to Seville in EL? Not progressing from the group stage in the CL? Coming sixth in the PL? Or third (which is, ironically, is maybe his biggest merit EVER) with the point tally that usually gives you a fifth or sixth position in the league. All this while playing counter-attacking football and sitting back at home against our city rivals only a couple of weeks ago.
No he doesn't. A trophy means nothing in the grand scheme of things. LvG and Jose won trophies but were out of their depth here and PSG hired Poch. Arteta won the FA Cup last season, and how did that work out for him?
We haven't gotten Top 4 in consecutive seasons once since Fergie retired. In what world do you expect a title challenge, irrespective of Covid? Lest we forget this summer's window was a letdown where the first XI was not strengthened at all, and pre season many were expecting us not to get Top 4 at all if we didn't get Sancho (a view which I did not and do not ascribe to).
Now people are saying we're title challengers? Settle down. The truth about this team and Ole is somewhat in between the excessive expectations and the massively harsh criticism they receive in the bad times.
I know it’s Xmas, and the season of good will and all that, but this stuff you’re coming out with is out of control. It’s littered with suppositions and fabrications presented as facts and, whilst I am replying to you, none of what you’re posting amounts to sensible argument.
Possibly you’re mis-remembering the good old days, which is understandable, but your view of how we’re currently playing seems very blinkered and one dimensional and is impossible to take seriously.
These are what are known as straw man arguments - you phrase them the way you want to make them easier to knock down. For example what the Ole outers actually say is that people are more reluctant to call for Ole to quit because he is a popular ex-player, and he therefore acts as a human shield to Woodward and the Glazers while they plunder the club's wealth.
I won't go through the rest but there are more Straw Men and Aunt Sally's knocking about this thread than the Wurzel Gummidge Xmas Special.
Regardless of the other stuff, I have a feeling @Mickson isn't trying to claim Ole has spent 2 billion euros.I think his point is that you’ve inflated Ole’s spending by almost 10x
You're talking Krona or something aren't you?
Shrewd move. Converting to Ole’s native currency (kroner btw) comes across as Ole-positive, but simultaneously the krone has been tanking in recent years, and so it can help bolster a negative narrative.
Berry berry shrew.
I believe he's taking the mick.
Sorry - I dont understand ? In order to beat Liverpool and City - OGS has to be better than Klopp and Pep - much better as they had a clear headstart when the season started
No, he wants who he deems to be a better manager - who he deems being operative here. And that’s the whole issue with ole outers. like keeping your tinder profile after getting in a serious relationship.
This is Manchester United we are talking about. Not some small time club. We always expect to win. I am not going to accept mediocrity from anyone be it Ole, Jose or LVG or anyone else. They were sacked because we were not challenging and rightly so. Buying Sancho is not going to make much of a difference. This team is good enough to compete at least with Liverpool or any top club in the PL. We may not win the PL but for sure this team is good enough to be competing to with the PL. As for Covid, did it only effect Manchester United?
Have you considered that people are reluctant to call for Ole to quit because they think he is doing a good job?
The point about the Glazers plundering our wealth makes no sense because it was arguably SAF who did more than any manager to facilitate the takeover. It was SAF who told fans who complained to “go and support Chelsea”, it was SAF who used the “no value in the market” line over and over again to excuse our lack of spending, it was SAF who oversaw a 6yr period between 2005 and 2010 where we had a POSITIVE net spend...
I don’t really know how you draw the conclusion that Ole is “facilitating the plundering of the club’s wealth” - there’s zero evidence to support that.
What do you call an argument where you make stuff up to support a conclusion you have already decided is correct?
This team Ole is assembling and managing, although a work in progress, IS competing with Liverpool and IS in the mix for the PL title. Feels good doesn’t it?
Mate, 200 million is not two billion.
No team dominates all their games. Liverpool last season, despite setting a points record had plenty of games where they barely scraped through. Possession counts for feck all really, its what you do with the ball that matters. Under LvG we usually had around 60% possession and yet had plenty of matches where we barely had a shot at goal
They have a great squad, better than City and to claim they are worse than Chelsea is absurd. Besides Silva (who is old as feck) i cant think of a single Chelsea player that would get into that Liverpool team
I know, I meant in other currency. And for all who laughing, I would love to see them get all the things correct in a foreign language.
No, no team dominates ALL their games. But they dominate the MAJORITY of their games, say over 90%. The one thing the best teams in all the leagues have in common is that they generally have the most possession and dominates the majority of games.
I don't agree with that at all. They may have a better first eleven, but not a better squad. As I have stated before, they barely have any fullbacks. We cry that we don't have cover for AWB, Liverpool hasn't had a natural right-back for years. Origi has been their first choice from the bench for years. Also, their midfield, on paper, isn't that good even though it's their strongest part. If we had Jordan Henderson, he would be laughed at because he would be mediocre at United. Their reserve keeper is shit. No full back cover. Their center backs (without Van Dijk) isn't better than United's. They have two great strikers but Firminho, would he get on the Chelsea bench even? And he's the first choice at Liverpool. Sorry, but their squad isn't so strong.
Even 90% domination is a huge ask in such a competitive league. Again using Liverpool as an example, in 13 games last season they won with just one goal, so even as dominant as they were its not like they completely steamrolled every team they faced. Maybe you can get that in one team leagues like Bundesliga and Ligue 1, but not in the PL
TAA is a great RB, and its not like its very common to have quality cover in all positions. How do we have? Laird? Thiago and Fabinho are class and the likes of Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner, Keita, Ox and Shaqiri range from very good to decent. Having a shit reserve keeper is not that big of an issue either.
Firminho gets slagged off a lot here because of his lacking output, but hes very good at enabling Salah/Mane so he plays his role well
Which currency? And why the feck would you use an unnamed currency other than pounds on this forum?
For the record, I laughed at you, and am currently writing in my second language. Own your mistakes and stop deflecting.
I don't know about the rest but I generally think in Euros not pounds, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for a lot of people who thinks in their own country currencies and have to make a conscious effort to translate it in pounds.
You’re talking to an international forum, though. Do you really think it makes sense for people to just post up their figures in local currencies? The transfer forum littered with numbers that could be euros, pounds, Norwegian kroner, Swedish kroner, Danish kroner, rupees, dollars, what have you?
Makes absolutely no fecking sense. Euros and pounds get used on here a lot, but they usually state the currency if it’s in euros. I’ve never seen fees pertaining to United given in any other currency.
Just comes across as a lame defence to me.
He admitted a mistake, leave it at that.
I put mickson on ignore, but now I am seriously considering whether he is an Ole-in shill.
No Ole supporters on here have done more to debase the Ole-out agenda, than mickson.
Merry Christmas @Mickson. The greatest undercover-agent since Johnny English.
No Ole supporters on here have done more to debase the Ole-out agenda, than mickson.
Merry Christmas @Mickson. The greatest undercover-agent since Johnny English.
No he didn’t
I'm pretty sure that he did in the first paragraph of the post you quoted, at least it was his way of doing it. No need to get your blood pressure that high.No he didn’t
Someone corrects him, he says he knows and that it was in another currency, before lamely claiming language difficulties. In no way is that him admitting a mistake.I'm pretty sure that he did in the first paragraph of the post you quoted, at least it was his way of doing it. No need to get your blood pressure that high.
My blood pressure is fine, I’m just bemused by the lengths people will go to rather than admit that they’ve made a mistake or failed at making themselves clear.
I counted in another currency, and when several reacted I looked it up. That's why "I knew" when he wrote. You should learn a thing or two about how language works, but I guess it's hard when you are sitting on your high Norwegian horse.
My degree is in language and intercultural communication with a specialisation in English, which included courses in linguistics, semantics, interpretation, translation, etc.
He said you owned your mistake in that paragraph, I just paraphrased it to him and said it doesn’t constitute acknowledging a mistake.
So you can piss off.
Dude, you're drowning in here. Your arguments are weak or nonexistent. I don't care enough about how you feel to bother to address every single point you've been trying to make but please, stop with the nonsense, it's not working out. As people have claimed already, you're actually increasing trust in Ole by showing how stupid arguments against him can be.
There is a wise saying that goes: "when you're in a hole, stop digging."
Hahha. I just have standards, you on the other hand, among others, are happy with being top 4. Give me ANY argument that Ole is the right choice for United to win the league or CL and I give you the benefit of the doubt. I have made several points why he isn't good enough, among stuff like: Seventh worst defense so far this season, being outplayed by teams like Crystal Palace and Brighton, hardly improving any player, hardly improving the style of football at all, bad in-game management and with all that bought more than pretty much any club in the world.
The question of whether Ole is doing a good or bad job is somewhat beside the point. He is there for the wrong reasons and our inconsistency and lack of competitiveness at the highest level has only a limited connection to his qualities or lack of them as a coach. But that is not an argument to keep him - in a well run club he would not be manager and we would not have this group of players - that's the bottom line. And a well run club is the goal. Sacking Ole on its own does not achieve that. It is a byproduct of it.
And yes SAF was almost entirely responsible for the Glazer debacle and it is a huge black mark on his record that many supporter choose to ignore. Roy Keane was right about that.
Ole is “facilitating the plundering of the club’s wealth” because he protects the Glazers from criticism in a way that less popular but more technically accomplished managers didn't - like Jose. And plundering the club's wealth is exactly what the Glazers have been doing.
What do you call an argument that refused to to engage with complexity? I can think of a word.
Good luck dude. If you want to see my arguments, I suggest you have a stroll through my previous posts. For me (and many other, as has been proven in this thread) you are writing bs.
Aah, the good old 'standards' argument. Every ole out argument finds its way here.