"My great great great great great great grandfather was abused by a Muslim man because of his skin colour being white but you don't hear me crying about it. But look at that man's great great great great great great great grandchild stealing my job though."
As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?
- Thread starter Zexstream
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I highly doubt someone watching a millionaire footballer has pushed someone to question racism or go watch the roots boxset. I genuinely would like to know how it opened their eyes, what was it they didn't already know.
Seems to annoy you a lot for something that isn't doing anything.
Again, easy for you to claim it is useless meanwhile others say much differently.
Terrible OP.
Not much needed to be said. Time to use my ignore button on users and threads.
Not much needed to be said. Time to use my ignore button on users and threads.
Seems insane that even needs clarifying tbh.
Surely this is willful ignorance.You keep saying 'millionaire footballer' as if people having money makes their stance invalid. Or means they can't have empathy.
Did you read @Bubz27 post? There's an example right there for you.
I think an interesting question would be what more should we be expecting from the FA and Premier League?
Lewis Hamilton recently signed a new contract with Mercedes through which he made them agree to do more on diversity in the sport. Football players do not have that same level of bargaining power, but I think looking at taking the knee and asking if it should continue is to focus on the wrong issue.
First of all, what are you implying, "It makes sense now".
Secondly, are you in any way trying to tell the victims and those families that suffered at the hands of racism that their plight is in someway not as bad as other plights in history? The Irish were starved in their own country, for one thing, being Irish.
Thirdly, I gave two examples of white oppression in the same thread, so please do not ty toclaim I only offered up the white slavery link as some sort of fall back, they were both valid examples of white people being oppressed in history.,
The old "white people have suffered too!" defence.
How do you know this? As previously stated, its a simple gesture that makes people either consciously or sub-consciously think about racism in society for a couple of seconds. Is that nothing? I mean we're talking about a very simple and very quick gesture... one that has zero negative consequences and doesn't impact anyone or anything negatively... its hardly going to change the world, but even if it just makes people think, if only for a second, thats something right?
The Premier League obviously has to do more, Social Media companies definitely have to do more but that's not reflective that taking the knee has done nothing either.
An Example,
“Climate change is a serious threat: every one of us has the responsibility to protect our future and the future of the next generation,” Lewis Hamilton
If Hamilton was so serious about Climate change why does he allow an oil company (Petronas) to sponsor him?
In other words, people do not listen to Millionaires who say one thing but do another.
Is it not racist to ignore the racism suffered by other races?
Well Petronas has an aim to hit net zero carbon emissions by 2050.... so there's something.
One night in Miami was decent, great dialogue as far as I could tell regarding racial issues.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...ues-private-jet-supercars-no-more-148810.html
Hamilton has given up his private jet, no longer drives any of his petrol cars, preferring an electric Mercedes, gets picked up from all airports in electric cars, has become a vegan and encouraged others to do the same, has offset the carbons footprint of his Formula 1 career back to 2007, and is pressuring his employer to move more quickly on electric vehicles.
Rugby Union is a Tory Sport.
Not really, because right now they burn oil into the climate and make a good deal of money out of it. If Hamilton really wanted to show support for Climate change, why not ditch those who are mostly responsible for it?
Yet is still sponsored by an oil company.
Also the obvious point is that Petronas sponsor Mercedes, rather than Hamilton himself.
So you call someone out for being a hypocrite on climate change, I show you how he isn't, and your point is to dismiss everything he has done (which I suspect is more than most) and focus on a relationship between a sponsor and his employer, not the driver himself?
Why? is racism defeated?
You say you prefer we aim to make all lives better, and your solution is to stop demonstrating against racism? Are black people not included in your 'all lives'?
Once again, what are you implying here? That you personally aren't noticing any reduction in racism since the gesture started, or that you simply can't even imagine a single hypothetical benefit from the ritual?
Hundreds of millions of people are reminded of the worldwide issue that is racism, through watching their biggest idols demonstrate against it before every game of football. People are influenced by their idols, it goes without saying.
We see our own local players ie. Tuanzebe experiencing racial abuse over one mistake. But hey let's turn the blind eye now all of a sudden because taking a knee is "cringe."
Anyone who takes offence to people showing solidarity in a message to try and end racism, needs to take a moment and decide whether they themselves have some deeper lying issues, or just have the bollocks to say they themselves are a racist prick. Racism is still a huge issue in the UK and globally, the message is to try and bring an end to this systematic racism which has been in place for centuries. I'm all for it and if it boils the piss of a few right wing cnuts along the way then long may it continue.
Now there is the difference. Knowing it is wrong on a personal level and knowing society deems it wrong are two different things. I knew a guy who was borderline racist, well in fact over the border. He knew other peoples opinions on it and largely that society deemed it wrong. He didn't believe he was racist, he'd have excuses and "facts" out of his ass for his opinions being what they were. He'd never question himself, and surround himself with people who had similar thoughts. He'd play it off, as jokes and bants. But I knew his upbringing and roots. It'd been conditioned, so actually he didn't think he was wrong at all.
And that's the point I'm making. These people in their own heads don't believe they are racist. They grow up with things said, jokes, views, media and they get conditioned. What their interpretation of racism is, isn't actually what society as a whole deems racism as. So no, they don't think they are wrong. They're quite quick to deem society's stance on racism as 'being a snowflake" or "being soft" or "it's not as bad as it used to be". And if you don't counter their opinion they'll grow up in an echo chamber that will, in their minds, prove them correct.
That's why I disagree with your point.
Again that's still generalizing all footballers. You don't know what they're doing, who they donate to, etc...
It's another example of people somehow being convinced that the ones that are doing anything to try and help with change are the real problem and not the massive corporations or governments.
I just think watching people take the knee and taking issue with it means there's something deeper within you and you probably need to have a long think and actually tell yourself why it is that this in particular upsets you. I am sure you've not taken as much of an issue or expressed outrage with systemic racism or overtly racist incidents as passionately as you have tried to defend your 'point' in this thread.
You don't always need to volley back a response across the court. A lot of people in this thread are trying to explain certain aspects of the issue to you, and that's not intended to be patronizing.
Without diverting the thread, As you can see above, Hamilton makes Millions from sponsorship. If someone really believed in climate change would they really still take money from a company that does more damage to the climate than any individual?
Anything good isnt perfect so there is no point right?
I have no issue with it, and I want it to continue for as long as possible.
It's especially weird this thread was made given Martial, Axel, and Rashford have all been racially abused in recent weeks.
I don't follow rugby closely, but I don't believe they have a racism problem to the extent that football does.
Just off the top of my head in the last year alone, we have the continued abuse of players on social media, the incident with Ian Wright and the Irish guy abusing him after losing a game of FIFA, the continued abuse in Serie A (Lukaku, other black players), the PSG-Istanbul incident in the CL this year. Racism is still very much present in the day to day game of football. This taking the knee, although symbolic, still brings awareness to the cause and continues to put this into the spotlight, so long may it continue.
On a wider note - the murder of George Floyd was disgusting, and the general treatment of the black community in the USA is abhorrent. Long may BLM and the BLM movement continue until they're treated the same as white people.
It's especially weird this thread was made given Martial, Axel, and Rashford have all been racially abused in recent weeks.
I don't follow rugby closely, but I don't believe they have a racism problem to the extent that football does.
Just off the top of my head in the last year alone, we have the continued abuse of players on social media, the incident with Ian Wright and the Irish guy abusing him after losing a game of FIFA, the continued abuse in Serie A (Lukaku, other black players), the PSG-Istanbul incident in the CL this year. Racism is still very much present in the day to day game of football. This taking the knee, although symbolic, still brings awareness to the cause and continues to put this into the spotlight, so long may it continue.
On a wider note - the murder of George Floyd was disgusting, and the general treatment of the black community in the USA is abhorrent. Long may BLM and the BLM movement continue until they're treated the same as white people.
Because he doesn't negotiate contracts and sponsorship on behalf of Mercedes.
If your employer invested in unclean energy, you can still campaign against climate change and pressure your employer to divest. It suddenly doesn't make your stance on climate change hypocritical.
If Hamilton left Mercedes, Petronas would stay with Mercedes. The team's name is Mercedes AMG Petronas. All F1 drivers wear overalls with their team's sponsors on.
Innit why is that remotely relevant?
What do I get if I call out Bingo
As I understand it, this is personal sponsorship.
Nope, the world has to be completely black and white Frosty, I saw Lewis Hamilton once drink from a plastic bottle so he’s clearly a huge hypocrite and that means climate change isn’t even a real thing. Those are the facts.
Yes, but only because I feel it's impact is now lost. It's become normal and normal very rarely stirs people into action. I would like to see something else take it's place. At the very least it'll get people talking again. It's striking that it's only become a talking point again because someone has stopped doing it.
Wouldn't you rather see someone do something, instead of nothing? Surely someone doing something positive, is better than making no attempt to improve the world around them.
Another point to consider since we are discussing Lewis Hamilton.
Sebastian Vettel campaigns agains climate change: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...tian-vettel-driving-f1-climate-emergency-plan
Sebastian Vettel is PERSONALLY SPONSORED by car manufacturer Infiniti and an oil company - Shell: https://www.essentiallysports.com/tag/sebastian-vettel/
Sebastian Vettel owns a tonne of cars and bikes which, unlike Lewis Hamilton, he still drives: https://www.essentiallysports.com/a...-owned-by-ferrari-f1-driver-sebastian-vettel/
Lewis Hamilton has done far, far more to reduce his carbon footprint than any other F1 driver and is leading by example.
Why are we focusing on Lewis Hamilton?
Sebastian Vettel campaigns agains climate change: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...tian-vettel-driving-f1-climate-emergency-plan
Sebastian Vettel is PERSONALLY SPONSORED by car manufacturer Infiniti and an oil company - Shell: https://www.essentiallysports.com/tag/sebastian-vettel/
Sebastian Vettel owns a tonne of cars and bikes which, unlike Lewis Hamilton, he still drives: https://www.essentiallysports.com/a...-owned-by-ferrari-f1-driver-sebastian-vettel/
Lewis Hamilton has done far, far more to reduce his carbon footprint than any other F1 driver and is leading by example.
Why are we focusing on Lewis Hamilton?
I don’t think anyone expected footballers taking the knee to ‘solve racism’, the entire purpose is simply to raise awareness to the cause, simple as that, and it’s clearly working if OP is going to the effort to get all upset and make a thread about it.
You are deflecting the argument. This has nothing to do with racism, taking the knee or BLM of which Sir Lewis is a ardent supporter.
Give a valid example of a ‘millionaire footballer’ who is openly racist and also takes the knee.
You can’t claim hypocrisy without proving your point.
Taking the knee sends out a good message. It’s obviously not going to solve the racism problem on its own but I hope it continues, if for no other reason than to seriously wind up all these right wing knuckle draggers! It’s hilarious how angry the gesture makes those morons.
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