absolutely mega hype here after a good EL game. Rashford is a better prospect than Best? Best who won leagues and the European cup?
Rashford and Martial are a problem
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
He’s a very good player but ffs....
Just saw highlights, Rashford along with our defense is single handedly ensuring that we don't win anything meaningful anytime soon. His finishing is appalling and how he misses at least 2 sitters every game. Usually when the scoreline is 0-0 too when an early goal could heavily influence the game in our favor.
At this point he has a better scoring rate influencing the UK government than in front of the goal. Almost an uncanny radar-like ability to shoot straight at the GK when the entire goal is open.
At this point he has a better scoring rate influencing the UK government than in front of the goal. Almost an uncanny radar-like ability to shoot straight at the GK when the entire goal is open.
Assists weren't even tracked in Europe until the 86 World Cup/90s for most leagues...so you've completely made that up, like you made up imaginary running/distance covered stats a few days ago.
Even then:
Charlton had 99 goals and ? assists in 168 games at the same age
Rashford has 84 goals and 50 assists in 252 games
So Rashford has 35 more goal contributions, while playing an extra 84 games - and giving one of the most creative players in United history, in football history 0 assists.
Not that that's any knock on Rashford - who's a good young talent - but it was a completely ridiculous statement.
Has to be a WUM. Either that or Rashford needs to consider a restraining order.
Last edited:
Watches (highlights of) a 4-0 win and comes in here to post this drivel about a guy who scored one, made one, and has been directly involved in precisely one third of all goals the team has scored over the season.
RedCafe
Am I wrong? He needs like 4 one on one chances to score 1. In a game where we were already 2-0 up it doesn't matter if he scored the 3rd. It hurts us when he blows his chances when the score is 0-0.
This isn't rocket science. Between him and our defense, its hardly a surprise we haven't won anything. For the record, I love the guy but you have to call a spade a spade.
I think plenty of people see what he can do. But there's a huge glaring issue with his game, and it causes us problems. He can provide fantastic moments on one hand but be the downfall of our attack on the other, often for poor reasons where he could and should be doing better. He seems to get tunnel vision and there's no other option than it working out or losing the ball.
Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. Time will tell.
I do know, however, that it's a staggeringly joyless way of watching football. Maybe just live in the moment for a bit and enjoy a good performance and comprehensive win in a tie many thought would be tricky without over worrying about what it means for the future.
Never post again. Please.
I've lived in the moment since ferguson retired. I don't know how much more longer do we wait before "time will tell". I'd take a meaningful trophy for a change.
Thank you very much.
I didn't want to reply as I only get 5 posts so why waste responding to something like this. But I just wanted to tell you to ignore posts you disagree with. I get you don't have post limitation like I do, but still.
I wouldn’t classify it as a joyless way of watching the match, and yes the stats without context show he’s very good, but it’s knowing that he can be so much better. Is he a great player, yes. Is he one of the most exciting United players in years, yes. Are we as good without him, no?
But it doesn’t hide the fact that these aren’t half-chances he’s missing here, these are one on ones with the keeper. He has to be compared to the likes of Haaland and Mbappe as it’s where we know his potential should be, and both of them would have had hat-tricks last night. It’s also not the first time he’s had games like this. In each of the last 5 or 6 games I remember yelling at the screen 3, 4 or 5 times because he makes a poor decision or doesn’t show the composure to finish off a move. It’s not that I or we think he’s a bad player, not at all, but if he’s to become a ‘top 5 in the world’ player this is what he needs to work on. These are chances he has to be scoring 99 out of 100 and showing more composure in these situations.
Yes in this game, in a vacuum, it didn’t matter and didn’t cost us, but there have been several matches recently where his poor composure, finishing and/or decision making have cost us goals that would have turned losses to draws/victories or turned dRams to victories. This what the likes of Ronaldo, Mbappe, Haaland do and should be the level where Rashford wants to take his talent. I don’t think it’s horrific for members to have that ambition for a players who so clearly has the skills an talent to get there.
As good as he undoubtedly is he can be so much more, which is for me so frustrating to watch.
Last edited:
There's overrating and then thisWhat is it with Rashford and decision making, you're running into 3 defenders with 2 team mates open, what do you do you think your Messi and just run into them. I can’t be bothered to go into shooting as it seems if the lad has time to think then he’s gonna mess up, if he reacts on a instant he seems to pull it off.
He’s just gone to shit, I don’t want to say this but can the outside non football world who didn’t know of him before the school dinner situation have an effect on him as in all the extra attention?
But then what’s Martials excuse....
He’s just gone to shit, I don’t want to say this but can the outside non football world who didn’t know of him before the school dinner situation have an effect on him as in all the extra attention?
But then what’s Martials excuse....
someone compared rashford with salah the other day when he has yet to hit even sterling level productivity. Why is it surprising that they compare him with Best now?
I mean at this point it's clear. Martial and ESPECIALLY Rashford aren't striker material. Imagine RVP, he'd have scored 2-3. That's what you need from a striker, clinical finishing otherwise it's like throwing a winger to play CF if you want a 1 in 4 conversion rate.
Martial appears lazy and not willing to make the runs and pressing required in the EPL. Think he at his use by date to be frank.
Rashford is an enigma, makes a lot of runs, often into dead ends, has relatively poor dribbling skills, but worse thing if all he is not a real finisher, misses far too many one on ones and is too prone to throw his arms around when things don’t go his way. Having said that , he is still a valuable member of the team , just not where he should be in terms of an actual striker.
Rashford is an enigma, makes a lot of runs, often into dead ends, has relatively poor dribbling skills, but worse thing if all he is not a real finisher, misses far too many one on ones and is too prone to throw his arms around when things don’t go his way. Having said that , he is still a valuable member of the team , just not where he should be in terms of an actual striker.
I'm as frustrated as anyone watching Rashford repeatedly miss big chances (or dribble until he inevitably loses the ball), but seriously, keep some perspective here. He had a goal and an assist, plus he pretty much created Bruno's second goal for feck's sake. And there's a reason he got in the position to waste those chances too, it's not like he was standing about and the ball dropped on him. There is such a thing as net outcome, and Rashford's net outcome is almost always strongly on the plus side, even when he's having a bad game.
Ignore the last sentence and focus on the two leading up to it. If they’re both true (and I’m a little dubious they are) then he might have a point.
Rashford has 17 in all competitions so far. If he hits 25 then that's a great return for a playuer in his position and another improvement on last season, especially when you consider he's no longer takes penalties. His defensive workrate is an issue though. This is why I've become a bit Sancho-sceptic. He's another attacker with low defensive work rate so we'd be lining up in some games with three low work rate attackers (like when we had Rom up top). You can carry one but three is too many.
"Gone to shit". Right. Never mind that he's approaching the 20 goal mark with more than a third of the season still to go, and is one of the top scorers in the Champion's League. Obviously gone to shit.
What's "gone to shit" is fans' impulse control. People watch games, have frustrating experiences and seemingly lets the emotion feed directly into their fingertips as they sit down at the keyboard, without making the detour via the non-reptilian parts of the brain.
If goals and assists are the only metric one can form opinions by and leaving that aside, one disregards non forwards completely then sure.
But I can't see how he's better than George Best (possibly our greatest ever and one of footballs all time greats) , Bobby Charlton (possibly our greatest ever and one of footballs all time greatest, also heralded as the best
ever English player), Paul Scholes (among the best 3 CMs I've seen) and Ryan Giggs (our most decorated player).
There's an argument that even Paul Pogba would be classified as a youth product? He'd achieved much more in the game than Rashford has.
Seeing as it’s fairly pointless comparing a player as early in his career as Rashford with a retrospective look back at the entirety of previous legends careers then assists and goals by a certain age are all we have. And we’re not talking nebulous crap like xG. Goals created and scored is as solid a way to assess the merit of attacking players as it gets.
Same even applies to Pogba, who is several years ahead of Rashford in his career. Having the good fortune to have spent the earlier part of his career at a more successful club than post-Fergie United doesn’t make him a better player anyway.
What a strange argument. Firstly, if goals and assists are all you have, then you have very little and may as well not bother. There's a lot more to football. Secondly, if you're going to compare him with others at the same stage then do it properly. Bobby Charlton cannot be defined by goals and assists. You don't even know how many assist George Best.
I could claim that Rashford is a greater youth product (across clubs) than Xavi and Iniesta on those grounds which would be a laughable claim to make.
Pogba has been a better player. Performed at the WC too. Not as cut and dry as the others but it's not clear cut in Rashfords favour.
This post is getting criticisms but the posters is just saying the same thing plenty of others but perhaps in a more forthright way.... Rashfords a decent footballer at times but often lacks the quality and composure of a top striker at clinical times in matches. The defence problems are well discussed on these forums.
Rashford is a striker/winger. Goals and assists is the perfect way to compare him with other strikers/wingers. Obviously falls apart when you compare him to central midfielders.
To be honest, I’ve no interest in defending yer man’s hyperbolic claims. Just think those stats are interesting (if true) because it’s annoying how often people forget that all great players were far from the finished product at Rashford’s age and if he’s similarly productive as the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo at the sharp end of the pitch then that would be a pretty amazing stat (still waiting to see it confirmed, mind you)
Ronaldo’s an easy-enough one in the league cause he moved to Real aged 24.
https://www.premierleague.com/players/2522/Cristiano-Ronaldo/stats
84 goals, 34 assists = 118
Rashford:
https://www.premierleague.com/players/13565/Marcus-Rashford/stats
52 goals, 27 assists = 79
We know Ronaldo scored 18 league goals in his final season, if we guess he got 10 assists (I’ll check). That means Rashford needs around 11 more contributions this season to match him in the league at the same age.
Last edited:
Interesting. Thanks. Surprisingly close then.
Rashford might be out-performing him in Europe too? (albeit often against weaker opposition)
7 assists it was.
So if Rashford has 14 more contributions in the remaining 14 games, he is bang on track with Ronaldo in the Premier League at the same age. Rashford will have played maybe 10-15 more games is all.
17 goals and 12 assists now for Marcus isn't it? Still got 3 months of season left too.
I don't think a lot of our fans have a clue about football tbh. Yes Rashford makes bad decisions but he also regularly comes up with big moments for us.
He's not a Man City type player who always makes the right decision and right pass so stop wanting him to be that guy.
I don't think a lot of our fans have a clue about football tbh. Yes Rashford makes bad decisions but he also regularly comes up with big moments for us.
He's not a Man City type player who always makes the right decision and right pass so stop wanting him to be that guy.
This sounded unlikely and I trusted some brief research to prove it. So I started digging.
These stats are from this article - https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-marcus-rashfords-stats-after-250-man-utd-games-compare-to-wayne-rooney-and-cristiano-ronaldos/ - detailing how many goals and assists each player had accumulated after 250 appearances for United.
Rooney after 250 games - 104 goals, 58 assists = 162 total
Ronaldo after 250 games - 99 goals, 60 assists = 159 total
Rashford after 250 games - 83 goals, 51 assists = 134 total
Not looking great for your claim. But I suspected that Rashford had played his 250 games for United by a younger age than Rooney and Ronaldo, which indeed he had. Meaning your stat could still be true in fairness; Rashford could have scored more and assisted more for United at this point in his 23 years on planet Earth than Rooney or Ronaldo had done at the same juncture. So I dug a little deeper.
Marcus Rashford is 23 years and 111 days old a day after we played Real Sociedad away in the Europa League. His stats after that game are 89 goals and 51 assists equalling 140 total contributions.
Cristiano Ronaldo was 23 years and 111 days old five days after we played Chelsea in the the 2007/08 Champions League final. His stats after that game were 92 goals and 57 assists equalling 149 total contributions.
- If we include his Sporting numbers his total gets even bigger but we won't because its a few levels below the standard Rashford is competing at.
Wayne Rooney was 23 years and 111 days old six days before we played Fulham at home in the league in February 2009. His stats after that game were 90 goals and 50 assists equalling 140 total contributions.
- A remarkable comparison with Rashed and a testament to the level Marcus is truly performing at; far beyond the level his misguided critics think he is at least. I am a huge fan of Rashford as a player (an even bigger fan of him as a person) and think he will be an integral part to our team for the next decade. This statistical analysis actually has nothing to do with him but a lot to do with you.
So it seemed like you got one right. Kinda. Not really given you said 'better' when it's dead even but pretty close so I was willing to let bygones be bygones. Then, however, I had the thought that it seemed unfair to ignore Rooney's career prior to United, given it was still at Premier League level (unlike Ronaldo's) and still applicable by your own specified criteria of their 'goals and assists records' relative to age. So I dug even further.
Including Rooney's two years at Everton, in which he got 17 goals and 1 assist, his tally rises to 158 total contributions.
Our comparative stats now look like this:
Rashford at 23 years and 111 days - 89 goals, 51 assists = 140 total
Ronaldo at 23 years and 106 days - 92 goals, 57 assists = 149 total
Rooney at 23 years and 117 days - 107 goals, 51 assists = 158 total
So no is the basic response to your claim. It was, as has become a theme throughout your posts on the Caf, incorrect. A further theme explicit in the vast majority of these contributions is an unbearable arrogance and rudeness to anyone who disagrees with your absolutist viewpoint. Constantly telling people they're 'not true fans' or they're 'stupid feckwits' or that they need to 'keep up' is unpleasant to read and, if you're being honest with yourself, must be unpleasant to write.
This unnecessarily confrontational style of expression also immediately ruins whatever point you might be making, no matter how interesting or well-articulated it be might be. In a different thread you posed the question of whether fans calling for Ole to go would also have sacked Sir Matt or Sir Alex during their difficult early years. That's a really cool idea and perfectly illustrates the issue with the immediacy of modern football in a social-media driven society; time is a commodity no longer afforded to managers because we're increasingly hard-wired for instant gratification. It could have made for a great discussion as Sir Matt and Sir Alex probably wouldn't have survived if they'd been struggling at a time when Twitter was around. But you called the people you were talking to idiots, you told them they didn't understand what they were talking about, that they weren't real fans, and proceeded to ruin any semblance of productive dialogue.
I hope by demonstrating that you were factually and objectively wrong in one of your posts you might take the time to consider whether you could be wrong in others. And if you could be wrong, as we are all going to be at times, then maybe you could refrain from expressing yourself in such an insolent and obstinate manner to allow for this. Like do you really believe Rashford is a better player at 23 than George Best was or are you just saying it to be controversial and provoke a response? An answer of yes to either option requires you to have a rethink. I'll stop digging now.
(I'm wrong constantly btw - I thought Haaland would be a waste of money when we were linked with him because we had Martial and that McTominay should be sold because he was Championship level; viewpoints worthy of a ban at this point. I just didn't tell anyone they were an idiot or a fake fan for correctly disagreeing with me)
*All these stats were calculated using Transfermarkt because that's what the original article used. Feel free to call me an idiotic feckwit of a fake fan if they're wrong but you would really be missing the point.
Last edited:
Been waiting for the title of this thread to be changed tbh. Simple reason: Martial and Rashford cannot be assessed as a unit or a collective attacking force. No way!
Rashford probably our most valuable player.
Just for interest what value would you put on each of the 2?
That would be my guess, but yeah, maybe too much EL vs. CL.
Hehe. That’s a doozy of a post. Fair play.
The counter attack he killed by running into 3 players when we had Bruno mct and greenwood all at the edge of the box looking for a pass without about 1 defender between them sums him up.
He seems unable to make the correct easy decisions while in the same game doing something that makes you woah we have a star here.
He seems unable to make the correct easy decisions while in the same game doing something that makes you woah we have a star here.
Aubameyang is a player alot of fans would have liked back in his Dortmund days but Rashford is better than Aubameyang at half his age. I'd say he is actually equal to Son (or just beneath him by 1%) when you consider their stats this season.
I personally think if Rashford wasnt homegrown and English then he would be treated with a bit more respect for doing as well as he does at his age.
He is a consistent player that looks inconsistent because we dont have anyone else performing when he just isnt working in a front line of 3.
We saw it last year when Martial and Greenwood were scoring - Rashford looked like a completely new beast. Injuries aside, he is the only one of our forwards who even resembles last years ones.
I value him alot. People will cry about Neto and Son when they score and when they are quiet; the threads are simply not bumped.
I personally think if Rashford wasnt homegrown and English then he would be treated with a bit more respect for doing as well as he does at his age.
He is a consistent player that looks inconsistent because we dont have anyone else performing when he just isnt working in a front line of 3.
We saw it last year when Martial and Greenwood were scoring - Rashford looked like a completely new beast. Injuries aside, he is the only one of our forwards who even resembles last years ones.
I value him alot. People will cry about Neto and Son when they score and when they are quiet; the threads are simply not bumped.
You must be in lockdown somewhere for that
One hell of a post that is.For Rashford to be so close to that pair is incredible, especially considering he has, in the main played in much lesser United sides. Rooney certainly was the most fortunate in that regard, he suffered just one year of "meh United", Ronaldo suffered 2, Rashford's entire United career has been stuck in the "meh" zone.
There's been many a 22-23 year old with that problem though and fortunately it's on the easier thing that irons out with time and experience.
Yeah this in the frustrating thing - he second-guesses himself some times. He should improve this with experience, though.
Welbeck had the same issue as well, although not as talented - give him half a second and he could score a worldie, but put him 1-v-1 with space and the ice skates appeared.