Just two posters on the opposite ends of the Ole in / out debates with really extreme opinions bordering on the idiotic.
Individual Brilliance vs Pattern of play
- Thread starter meamth
- Start date
No need for such a reply. If you want to have a debate, please calm down.
My response to that is how did Cavani become an elite striker? Was he born with that movement? Why is VdB always on the move and why does he look so weird in our setup? Off the ball movement is something you coach into youth players, it's an issue I think United have had for ages.
I agree with part of your view. But I don't agree with United having this issue for ages. We got the movement part right with LVG but he was so rigid nothing else came out of it. I know exactly why he did that. Because he felt that the players he had couldn't do what he wants them to do.
DVB is not going to succeed at United because he is exactly a player who came from Ajax and they play a very different style. Keane was so successful as he said because he was taught at Forrest by Clough that it's control,pass and move. Everyone controlling, passing and moving is what they call this pattern of play probably.
It's what they did under SAF. Yes we could also counter attack when we needed to under SAF.
But now we don't seem to know how to move off the ball. That's why players stop when they don't have the ball. They don't know what the player in possession is going to do.
Look at when we have possession. There is hardly any time when the player in possession has three options available for him to pass the ball. That's terrible movement off the ball.
We clearly have a pattern of play...I honestly believe this discussion is one of the most arrogant football discussions, as it's really about some of our fans preferring a style of play, with anything not resembling simply not having a pattern. We are not as rigid as Pep's teams are at sticking to a specific build up style, but it doesn't mean we don't have one.
With the right players, its clear that Ole would like us to shift the ball from side to side to break down rigid defences. He would love us to press high and initiate quick drives up the pitch in a similar fashion to Wenger's Arsenal. Ole also likes having the threat of constantly rotating forwards, who can all offer a form of attacking threat from all three attacking positions. Us not being able to achieve these things consistently is due moreso to quality than tactics. If you watch Bayern, they press high with 5 players, with one central midfielder staying deep, depending on which side of the pitch is being pressed. United try constantly to do this, but unlike Bayern, we don't have midfielders who have the defensive iq and speed to halt potential counters borne from having too many players up the pitch. In addition to this, we also have one Centre back who can't be relied on to apply pressure from the back as he doesn't have the strength or aerial ability to support the midfield against countering danger (Lindelof). Therefore in a lot of games, we are forced to use a mid-block, which protects our midfield, but limits the effectiveness of the pressure we can apply up top.
We can't move the ball quickly enough from one flank to the other because both of our central midfielders don't have the touch or awareness to keep the ball moving without hesitation, and unlike Bayern, when called upon to play a pass requiring a hint of technical ability, usually fail. Additionally, they don't have the composure to keep the ball when needed as safety nets for players taking more risks and having less time on the ball higher up the pitch, which a. means that our attackers have to wait double the time for passes to be received and b. they have to receive these passes from defenders more capable of passing the ball, but now from a deeper position.
We also have a situation where some of our forwards don't have the quality or drive to consistently provide movement, drive and actions when they have the ball. In addition, there are some who are simply inconsistent.
Martial is a poor player who has been overhyped due to how he looks in the small situations where he is driving the ball from his comfort zone.
Rashford is slightly inconsistent and is not the best decision maker in the final third.
Greenwood is very young, still developing...but for the most part his great weakness right now is finding/creating space to get his shots off ( lack of experience)
James is poor....doesn't have the balance to provide a viable passing option and lacks the skill or technique to do anything other than driving with his right foot.
Mata is old, slow and weak.
Diallo is really young
Cavani is the only reliable forward option we have.
I'm not really being critical of our attack as a lot of the weaknesses there are experience based, however we should add a more reliable attacker than rashford that can allow us to not live by the excellence of Bruno or the decision making of Rashford. We need that attacker to allow Rashford to grow into a better decision maker without the responsibility of carrying the majority of our attacking load.
Our midfield is our big problem imo. Fred is very overrated by our fans and them covering for his inadequacies due to him not being completely terrible hurts our team, as outside of his relentless yet disorganized pressing, he doesn't offer much else. Mctominay can be a good player to have if we play him in a box to box capacity similar to how Bayern us Goretzka. As a DM, his defensive iq is not high enough and his passing is below standard. Pogba would benefit the most from having a DM, as it would allow him to join the attacks at certain points like he was doing during project restart. However, he is not going to stay, his wages are too high for what he offers. In addition, I still feel that it is imperative to have both midfielders with at the very least a high work rate, which Pogba doesn't have. In addition he moves the ball too slowly. I think the speed of the league and the one touch requirements it requires don't suit Pogba. Matic is too slow to cover for a high press and the technical attribute he brings may not be enough for a team seeking to be dominant. He doesn't move the ball quick enough, and for a player who doesn't drive with the ball consistently or move into vacant attacking positions, his passing range is too limited.
Defensively, Lindelof needs to be replaced. Bailly's lack of fitness and periods of poor form don't make him a reliable option. We need a new CB that suits the requirements of the league. In addition, De Gea's lack of command of his area has been exposed. I don't think Dean is perfect, but if given the chance, I believe he can grow to be a class keeper in the mould of Joe Hart at City or a Kasper Schmeichel, which would be awesome.
With the right players, its clear that Ole would like us to shift the ball from side to side to break down rigid defences. He would love us to press high and initiate quick drives up the pitch in a similar fashion to Wenger's Arsenal. Ole also likes having the threat of constantly rotating forwards, who can all offer a form of attacking threat from all three attacking positions. Us not being able to achieve these things consistently is due moreso to quality than tactics. If you watch Bayern, they press high with 5 players, with one central midfielder staying deep, depending on which side of the pitch is being pressed. United try constantly to do this, but unlike Bayern, we don't have midfielders who have the defensive iq and speed to halt potential counters borne from having too many players up the pitch. In addition to this, we also have one Centre back who can't be relied on to apply pressure from the back as he doesn't have the strength or aerial ability to support the midfield against countering danger (Lindelof). Therefore in a lot of games, we are forced to use a mid-block, which protects our midfield, but limits the effectiveness of the pressure we can apply up top.
We can't move the ball quickly enough from one flank to the other because both of our central midfielders don't have the touch or awareness to keep the ball moving without hesitation, and unlike Bayern, when called upon to play a pass requiring a hint of technical ability, usually fail. Additionally, they don't have the composure to keep the ball when needed as safety nets for players taking more risks and having less time on the ball higher up the pitch, which a. means that our attackers have to wait double the time for passes to be received and b. they have to receive these passes from defenders more capable of passing the ball, but now from a deeper position.
We also have a situation where some of our forwards don't have the quality or drive to consistently provide movement, drive and actions when they have the ball. In addition, there are some who are simply inconsistent.
Martial is a poor player who has been overhyped due to how he looks in the small situations where he is driving the ball from his comfort zone.
Rashford is slightly inconsistent and is not the best decision maker in the final third.
Greenwood is very young, still developing...but for the most part his great weakness right now is finding/creating space to get his shots off ( lack of experience)
James is poor....doesn't have the balance to provide a viable passing option and lacks the skill or technique to do anything other than driving with his right foot.
Mata is old, slow and weak.
Diallo is really young
Cavani is the only reliable forward option we have.
I'm not really being critical of our attack as a lot of the weaknesses there are experience based, however we should add a more reliable attacker than rashford that can allow us to not live by the excellence of Bruno or the decision making of Rashford. We need that attacker to allow Rashford to grow into a better decision maker without the responsibility of carrying the majority of our attacking load.
Our midfield is our big problem imo. Fred is very overrated by our fans and them covering for his inadequacies due to him not being completely terrible hurts our team, as outside of his relentless yet disorganized pressing, he doesn't offer much else. Mctominay can be a good player to have if we play him in a box to box capacity similar to how Bayern us Goretzka. As a DM, his defensive iq is not high enough and his passing is below standard. Pogba would benefit the most from having a DM, as it would allow him to join the attacks at certain points like he was doing during project restart. However, he is not going to stay, his wages are too high for what he offers. In addition, I still feel that it is imperative to have both midfielders with at the very least a high work rate, which Pogba doesn't have. In addition he moves the ball too slowly. I think the speed of the league and the one touch requirements it requires don't suit Pogba. Matic is too slow to cover for a high press and the technical attribute he brings may not be enough for a team seeking to be dominant. He doesn't move the ball quick enough, and for a player who doesn't drive with the ball consistently or move into vacant attacking positions, his passing range is too limited.
Defensively, Lindelof needs to be replaced. Bailly's lack of fitness and periods of poor form don't make him a reliable option. We need a new CB that suits the requirements of the league. In addition, De Gea's lack of command of his area has been exposed. I don't think Dean is perfect, but if given the chance, I believe he can grow to be a class keeper in the mould of Joe Hart at City or a Kasper Schmeichel, which would be awesome.
LVG was definitely a step in the right direction but he was at the extreme end of the possession spectrum and also had been out of domestic football for a while. I think we'd remember his time here a lot more fondly if his attacking signings hadn't all been disasters and, to clarify, I'm not saying we need to be producing kids like Ajax do because we don't need to be that focused on possession, we just need to be more focused on it in offensive areas and that means improving our movement off the ball. Pass and move was the source of total football so it's all linked anyway and there is no correct way to play but I do think you can watch United and often see static players when we have possession.
Maybe this ties into a wider issue I have with our style and why I struggle to see it being successful at the highest level because I do think our team is generally below average technically when you think of us compared to our rivals - McFred being the main part of why I think this and that directly impacts our ability to keep possession in offensive areas.
Continuity in play, not patterns that annoys me, if we played in patterns, bloody hell everyone would know how to set up against us. It's the consistency and continuity in our play that needs to be better. Ie Real Sociedad last week, the Continuity and consistency in that game was spot on, no patterns in that game.
Fair enough, I've taken most of your reply out of context, I apologise.
Regarding players and transfers. I agree that we have a lot of good players but also believe we need a few additions to be able to compete for top honors.
Do you think we should have faith in Diallo and Pellistri for RW? And in Garner for the Matic replacement? Or in Martial to finally become consistently good? Or Greenwood to be a starter striker at his age?
The only two positions that a lot of people comment regarding transfers that I believe we don't need them are GK and CB. I prefer we try Henderson for a season and unless we sell Tuanzebe/Bailly (maybe both?) I think we have the CBs in the squad to improve. For me, the biggest issues with our defence are the timid and static GK and the distance between midfield line and back line. Which causes panic that leads to set pieces, where we concede because Maguire has to basically cover the whole penalty box.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a stupid one. Michels would like to have a word with you.
There are two players who I'd get rid off without blinking an eye: De Gea and Martial. We need those upgrades this summer. It might be Henderson for GK, this is the time to find out I guess.
For me it's annoying that whenever discussions about other aspects of football start, there will be a bunch of people shouting we just need better players to improve (not referring to you, just general point). Which is true if you can get Haaland, Mbappe etc. But this is just fantasy which (almost) never happens, so I suggest we focus on what we have. We have a good squad and it will not be so easy to upgrade as some think. Other players than DDG and Martial I think can be upgraded upon is Fred and Lindelof, but for sure it won't happen over one transfer window.
Agree about DDG and Martial. Unfortunately I can't see who'd buy them. And thus would probably like to get a DM and a winger if James/Diallo will not be first choice next year.
I feel like we've got fortunate in a lot of games and I don't think it's sustainable to play as we are. That's against the smaller teams that have sat back.
The bigger games, well out record speaks for itself. We've relied on the counter a lot in this games and been reduced to fleeting moments. It's not good enough to get where we want to be, in my opinion.
If you describe Pep football in one word it's possession, if you would describe Ole football in one word it's transition,I don't understand how people think we don't have a style of play just watch Rashford goal vs sociedad,that's Ole text book,(Henderson to Fred to Rashford very quickly)His goal vs Newcastle is also what Ole demands from his players "be audacious and direct" that's Ole football direct play,that's why Bruno is so productive because he is direct and audacious
You watch us play and you see we set press traps and break at pace,we leave the forwards higher up while out of possession to gain advantage on the counter,we're the top scoring team in the league we don't have a problem offensively, defensively is were the problem lie we can't with stand any little problem without conceding that's were we should focus o upgrading in the next transfer window,Maguire partner and goalkeeper need to be better the fast transition football doesn't suit Lindelof or De gea
You watch us play and you see we set press traps and break at pace,we leave the forwards higher up while out of possession to gain advantage on the counter,we're the top scoring team in the league we don't have a problem offensively, defensively is were the problem lie we can't with stand any little problem without conceding that's were we should focus o upgrading in the next transfer window,Maguire partner and goalkeeper need to be better the fast transition football doesn't suit Lindelof or De gea
I agree with your post, would like it if I could. We’ve got a clear style and I’ve made the same observations as you, it’s just some refuse to want to see it and simply don’t like it.
It surprises me as this football has a lot of similarities to SAF football, we didn’t always hog the ball for possession under him either and I often felt we played the underdog in bigger games under him while the other team had majority of possession, I don’t mind this style and enjoy break neck transitions counters.
Thank you,our football is a lot like Liverpool's it more about out punching the opponent, I don't think the squad is complete yet and we're already 2nd in the league we still got a few more signings to go,people really like to moan,I think the next step is becoming a trophy winning machine, that will come the squad is young and improving steadily, we've now attained stability and need to continue on this path,Ole himself is getting better.... Good days ahead
This post pretty much exactly sums up my feelings on our current situation. I don't know if the club are ballsy enough to replace players like Martial, de Gea, Fred or Lindelof. I can't exactly say I blame them if they didn't because, as you said, they're not easy to replace and unless we've got a run at Haaland or someone of that ilk then whether we actually successfully upgrade them is a coin toss. I'm not sure how convinced I'd be of our board to sign someone better than Martial because history suggests our transfers are very hit and miss but I do also feel like he needs to go.
In the past 8 years, City have had the best team and won only 3 PL titles.
I don't think any team bar Spurs in 12/13 has finished in top 4 on the back of individual brilliance. No team has been title contenders in any point of the season on back of individual brilliance and certainly, no team has finished in top 4 in 2 seasons (consecutively or not) because of "Individual Brilliance".
The entire argument around individual brilliance falls flat when you think about the fact that football is a low scoring game and the side is as good as the weakest link. If teams target this weakest link - in our case Dave's reluctance to come out of the line, Lindelof's inability to win aerial duels from open play, Fred's inconsistent passing or Martial's movement (or lack of it)- consistently there is no way the team can win games on the back of individual brilliance. In our case, we do quite well to hide these weaknesses as much as we can, like any team should, to limit damage. Hell, Messi hasn't won a CL since 2015 due to garbage defence and there hasn't been a more brilliant player than him.
You can have a moment of magic or two in a game, not 4 or 5 moments, unless that is what the players have been trained for. Some of the goals that we've scored have been from individual brilliance, make no mistake about that - Rashford's goal vs BHA and Newcastle for example- but most of the others involved a proper buildup play to reach that stage. Most of our best team goals in the past decade have come under Ole, and team goals are obviously a result of training ground drills and not individual brilliance.
Also, if we are to assume that we are just "vibes" and "individual brilliance", I'd expect you guys to be of the opinion that we're the best team in the world, and don't really need any transfers. A better coach is surely worth 15 points at least, and you can safely say we're 5 points ahead of the best team in the country, and maybe the world
The entire argument around individual brilliance falls flat when you think about the fact that football is a low scoring game and the side is as good as the weakest link. If teams target this weakest link - in our case Dave's reluctance to come out of the line, Lindelof's inability to win aerial duels from open play, Fred's inconsistent passing or Martial's movement (or lack of it)- consistently there is no way the team can win games on the back of individual brilliance. In our case, we do quite well to hide these weaknesses as much as we can, like any team should, to limit damage. Hell, Messi hasn't won a CL since 2015 due to garbage defence and there hasn't been a more brilliant player than him.
You can have a moment of magic or two in a game, not 4 or 5 moments, unless that is what the players have been trained for. Some of the goals that we've scored have been from individual brilliance, make no mistake about that - Rashford's goal vs BHA and Newcastle for example- but most of the others involved a proper buildup play to reach that stage. Most of our best team goals in the past decade have come under Ole, and team goals are obviously a result of training ground drills and not individual brilliance.
Also, if we are to assume that we are just "vibes" and "individual brilliance", I'd expect you guys to be of the opinion that we're the best team in the world, and don't really need any transfers. A better coach is surely worth 15 points at least, and you can safely say we're 5 points ahead of the best team in the country, and maybe the world
We don’t really create much, which is why our centre forward is so often anonymous. I think we rely on individual brilliance more than a top club should. Obviously every team relies on individual brilliance to an extent, but there are some games where our lads look like they’ve never even met. We’re very good on the counter, but putting together patterns of play to beak down low blocks is something we have struggled with since Fergie retired. Even in the possession days of LVG there were a lot of dreary 0-0s. I went to the PSV game & actually fell asleep. I think a whole revamp of the coaches is needed because it’s been a problem for 4 managers now.
In 8 years, 3 times first and 3 times second. 6 times in 8 years were either winners or just not.
If you take the last 9 seasons, when their investement started paying dividents, you have 4 wins and 3 seconds in 9 years. Most likely it's going to be 5 wins and 3 seconds in 10 years. That is domination resulting from the best squad, under different managers.
Rinus?
True. The central DM is so important. We need a younger Matic. But we also don't move off the ball well at all. You are right in our lack of technical ability. Everyone knows we are going to give to Bruno to create something or to Rashford to run with the ball.
I would say that if Ole was the manager for us in the first final against Barca, we probably would have won the CL.
But his coaches need to look at the bigger picture now. We hardly create anything from the middle against most teams. Especially if McTominay is not playing. We need to move our players during the game depending on the situation. And also use those moments of opportunities.
Style of play and patterns of play are very different though, one is the broader strategy and the other tactical.
Tuchel after Chelsea"s win actually mentioned his team are still working on their automations and they need repeated experience to understand each other. I don't know why at this stage are players don't have an idea of the runs others will make.
We might have a general style but we don't know what each other will do most of the time. The only exception is on the counter, everything else is usually control the ball, stand still, look around at everyone else stood still and then pass to a marked opponent.
You said 99% time squad with best players wins, it is not even 50%. So more often a manager making the team better than the sum of its parts has won the PL. This is the standard we need to win anything now.
Real Madrid Galactico era is a prime example. I was surprised when I read about it as I was quite young at the time and always felt like they just swept up. Not the case at all.
I don’t think or didn’t mean to suggest they were the same, I didn’t even mention patterns of play.
I’ve seen numerous posters moaning that we have no style other than counter attack and give it to Bruno or rashford and hope for the best. I think that’s just untrue and we have a clear style of play, also Bruno and rashford don’t just get into those goal scoring or break away opportunities so often by luck or individual skill.
The passing when teams sit back is not perfect that’s why I think we try to lure teams out more and then quick transition with speed. When teams do sit back we do seem to over load one side (usually the left) and shaw has been getting inside and and to the byline better recently I think, but the switch of play needs to be quicker once we’ve done that and shaw or rashford don’t get in behind, martials movement in the middle hasn’t helped this recently.
I think it’s coming, just not there yet. One lethal finisher could change so much for us. But my point was just that we do have a style of play, just one maybe people don’t like.
The worry would be whether Ole can keep the players engaged and motivated. They see what City and Liverpool do, how content are they with what they're being asked to do?
I don't understand your post. I exaggerated with 99% but wining this year, as they probably will, puts them at winning one every 2 seasons in the last decade. That is the consistency of a top squad and domination (under different managers). If we go further in Europe, Germany Bayern, France PSG, Italy Juve, Spain the big 2; it is undeniable that the most important factor in sustainable success is having the best squad. Are you trying to argue against that or am I miss understanding you? I'm genuinely confused.
Yesterday first half was a good example. It maybe the players are simply not good enough to think. When we have the ball, our players don't know how to move off the ball a lot of times.
Because of this thread I was looking at it in more depth.
When our cbs have the ball, the only options they have is to pass between them or to pass it to either of the full backs. They are not good enough to switch play so they can't play a cross field pass.
The major reason is Fred is rarely free. He doesn't know how to create space. As soon as our cbs get the ball, their forwards drop back into midfield and cover that route. Fred doesn't realise this and he doesn't move so that he can be given the ball. Looks like we don't practice moving off the ball much?
Because of this thread I was looking at it in more depth.
When our cbs have the ball, the only options they have is to pass between them or to pass it to either of the full backs. They are not good enough to switch play so they can't play a cross field pass.
The major reason is Fred is rarely free. He doesn't know how to create space. As soon as our cbs get the ball, their forwards drop back into midfield and cover that route. Fred doesn't realise this and he doesn't move so that he can be given the ball. Looks like we don't practice moving off the ball much?
The terms are not mutually exclusive and I would argue are mutually dependent, at least for clubs hoping to lift major trophies.
Breaking it all down we suffer in two critical areas: finishing and defending on crosses (set pieces and open play).
Were we to swap out Martial with a hypothetical prime Rooney — or even prime Ole FFS — we’d be within arm’s reach of City and if on top of that we’ve defended properly on crosses we can add a few more points to our tally.
We actually move the ball fairly well from back to front, but our strikers collapse too often when presented with good chances. Martial and Rashford come to mind and Greenwood has dried up this season. We also struggle when the opposition pushes crosses onto the edge of the six yard box. Just recently Maguire dealt with such a ball and he chose to head the ball into a dangerous area rather than out to the byline. Maybe De Gea should have come out for it. Either way, the goal ensued on the back of either Maguire or De Gea however one wants to look at it, but that mistake had nothing to do with a pattern of play.
Reduce the mistakes at the back and improve our finishing up front. It’s just that simple.
Breaking it all down we suffer in two critical areas: finishing and defending on crosses (set pieces and open play).
Were we to swap out Martial with a hypothetical prime Rooney — or even prime Ole FFS — we’d be within arm’s reach of City and if on top of that we’ve defended properly on crosses we can add a few more points to our tally.
We actually move the ball fairly well from back to front, but our strikers collapse too often when presented with good chances. Martial and Rashford come to mind and Greenwood has dried up this season. We also struggle when the opposition pushes crosses onto the edge of the six yard box. Just recently Maguire dealt with such a ball and he chose to head the ball into a dangerous area rather than out to the byline. Maybe De Gea should have come out for it. Either way, the goal ensued on the back of either Maguire or De Gea however one wants to look at it, but that mistake had nothing to do with a pattern of play.
Reduce the mistakes at the back and improve our finishing up front. It’s just that simple.
I thought for a long time that our movement off the ball it really poor particularly when faced with a packed defence, we are far too static. I’ve noticed a lot of the time last season we would start the game with Martial and Rashford making runs in the first 10 - 15 minutes and after not getting the ball they would move less. This is different when we counter and the have space to run into.
Also if they do make a run and the don’t get the ball a lot of the time that ends the movement as they then move towards the ball looking for it to go into feet or just stand there looking completely disinterested. Watching some other more dynamic teams with ‘less talented players’ you see them make multiple runs into space moving defenders and midfielders around to either find space for themselves or create space for others.
I don’t think the CB aren’t good enough to make crossfield passes as they do do this occasionally, but the slowness of how we (a lot of the time) bring the ball out of the defence means the opposition can get back into a good defence shape to nullify it. My assumption is the defenders are bringing the ball out slowly as a tactic to suck the opposition onto us so we can create space further up the pitch, but invariably this ends in us giving the ball away too easily with low percentage passes inviting more pressure or getting pressed losing the ball in a dangerous areas or the opposition don’t press so we just hanging onto the ball for too long not creating anything because of the lack of movement again. It’s all pretty frustrating.
If we took 11 random, professional footballers, I'd expect them to perform no worse than United today.
Sorry, I don't see those patterns of play, coaching effects etc. This team looks like playing for the first time together every week. It was masked by individual brilliance but that stream of goals has gone dry.
Sorry, I don't see those patterns of play, coaching effects etc. This team looks like playing for the first time together every week. It was masked by individual brilliance but that stream of goals has gone dry.
In the last 4 games, no team apart from City has scored more than us. This despite us having faced Chelsea and Everton in those 4 games. And before you ask, why did I pick last 4 and not a more round number like 5, it's to avoid bringing in the 9-0
Exactly. Where were all of Chelsea’s fancy patterns of play? It turned into a nervy game with neither attack doing enough to win it. A draw suited both managers.
People often tend to dress this up as some hipster thing, or some inability to see the positives with Ole, but outside of soaking up pressure against the bigger sides and hit them on the counter, there hasn't been a clear tactical plan. There was some blog explaining Ole's evolution in terms of tactics, which was the most positive way one could explain, with hindsight, how and why Ole did this and that, but if anyone who is firmly of the belief that Ole has developed our overall game - not least in the attacking third - I'd like them to point out what exactly that is. All I see is brief spells within games, with the great majority of matches lacking tempo, unpredictability (or variation) and the positives tend to be individual brilliance.
And our terrible starts to matches continue, quite incredibly. After dozens of repeats.
I wonder what kind of football we'd be playing (and what kind of results we'd have gotten) had Bruno performed levels above what anyone expected.
And our terrible starts to matches continue, quite incredibly. After dozens of repeats.
I wonder what kind of football we'd be playing (and what kind of results we'd have gotten) had Bruno performed levels above what anyone expected.
‘Playing well’ is always going to be the foundation for long term team success. Football is a team game. The best individuals won’t look the best they can be in a shite team. You can have fantastic players, if you can’t make them into a team - you will be beaten by the team that can over the course of the season.
The reason people were so optimistic when Liverpool signed Van Dijk and Alisson is because they were already a good team. They were a good team with identifiable quality issues in some areas. This is why, despite them finishing 4th and us finishing 2nd - people went into the next season expecting more from them.
United right now have some good individuals, but as a team, we are average. There are better teams than us in the PL, and we are fortunate that many of them have worse players. With the quality that we do have - if we were structured like Leicester or how Wolves have been in recent seasons - we’d be right in the title race now. But we have just about stretched to second place off of the strength of our ‘individual brilliance’ - winning game after game that we have looked unimpressive in, and there’s only so long that will last for without us sorting out the fundamentals first. Whatever fans have in mind from any proposed transfer targets this summer - they should subtract about 20% of that impact unless we can first build a proper unit. Football doesn’t work like that. We’ll get some improvement, but before we can be the best team in Europe again - we will need more than just players. We need a plan. A plan that can means that while all these players are individually good, they become even better when you put them together in our unit.
We can barely win convincingly against anyone. And simply saying ‘our plan is fast counterattacks’ is elementary. As Gary Neville said in commentary tonight ‘United cannot counterattack their way to a title - they need to go and dominate games’.
The reason people were so optimistic when Liverpool signed Van Dijk and Alisson is because they were already a good team. They were a good team with identifiable quality issues in some areas. This is why, despite them finishing 4th and us finishing 2nd - people went into the next season expecting more from them.
United right now have some good individuals, but as a team, we are average. There are better teams than us in the PL, and we are fortunate that many of them have worse players. With the quality that we do have - if we were structured like Leicester or how Wolves have been in recent seasons - we’d be right in the title race now. But we have just about stretched to second place off of the strength of our ‘individual brilliance’ - winning game after game that we have looked unimpressive in, and there’s only so long that will last for without us sorting out the fundamentals first. Whatever fans have in mind from any proposed transfer targets this summer - they should subtract about 20% of that impact unless we can first build a proper unit. Football doesn’t work like that. We’ll get some improvement, but before we can be the best team in Europe again - we will need more than just players. We need a plan. A plan that can means that while all these players are individually good, they become even better when you put them together in our unit.
We can barely win convincingly against anyone. And simply saying ‘our plan is fast counterattacks’ is elementary. As Gary Neville said in commentary tonight ‘United cannot counterattack their way to a title - they need to go and dominate games’.
Poor finishing and selfish plays are the reason we didn't win last night and all the other games.
Until we signed a top striker, (Cavani is good, but he isn't at his physical peak) we will sort this out.
Last night, I blame Rashford.
How many chances did we have to finish? Poor finishing is why Brighton didn’t beat Palace, not why we didn’t.
It’s unfortunate Barca have used patterns of play for the last 15 years. Messi never got a chance to show his individual brilliance.
What pattern of play?
Pep is the master of a well drilled team.
Can't even beat United, clueless and can't create chances.
Pep is the master of a well drilled team.
Can't even beat United, clueless and can't create chances.