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We may go for Moyes again if West ham finish top 4.He signed a number of underwhelming players, opting for his nationality and rumors about him disliking south american is legit.
He was given the war chest, and he signed some of the worst players to ever played for United. When its all doom and gloom, he felt like a genius and promoting youths. That's shambles, worst manager after Moyes.
I think a most of that has to do with the squad. The best way to beat low blocks is either to pelt them with crosses and have a big guy in there to get on the ball or players with great technique who are great at operating in smalll spaces.I think that counter attacking is perhaps the best aspect to Ole's management I can't see anything else outside of that. If the impetus is on the opposition to attack it favours the way we are set up. I think however given most games we are typically on the front foot there might be a need to re-arrange the coaches and bring someone who has a more positive influence in helping the players digress movement, positioning and spaces so that there's more balance to the team in possession of the ball.
I think it’s more a case of some people think we have awful coaches win, lose or draw and come out in greater force when we don’t win.When we win we've got the best coaching team in the country but if we draw or lose they are awful.
It’s a completely different game IMO - against a team that is attacking you, like City yesterday, when you regain possession and are able to counter attack, you’re immediately attack against defence - say, 4 against 4, and then you’re down to individual pace and abilities of our attackers versus their defenders. Against, say, a Crystal Palace or a West Brom that doesn’t happen - they will let us have the ball and we face two banks of four sitting deep and saying “come on then, what have you got”. This requires a lot more tactical nous to break down.It does. We have been very poor in our last few games. We didn't dilly dally on the ball. We got our tactics right today. Martial played well is the other reason.
There's a lot more nuance and tactical nous to both approaches. Even in yesterday's game, the counter attacking isn't as easy as play an out ball and go 4 on 4. City would take tactical fouls and snuff them out like they did on a couple of occasions. A minor tweak was the out ball from Henderson targeting the left channel vacated by Cancelo, so there is open space to run into and get their defence into retreat, that kind of thing is not possible without good game planning and coaching. If counter attacking City was so easy, half the league would do it and their defence with Stones and Dias conceded what, 4 goals in their win streak?It’s a completely different game IMO - against a team that is attacking you, like City yesterday, when you regain possession and are able to counter attack, you’re immediately attack against defence - say, 4 against 4, and then you’re down to individual pace and abilities of our attackers versus their defenders. Against, say, a Crystal Palace or a West Brom that doesn’t happen - they will let us have the ball and we face two banks of four sitting deep and saying “come on then, what have you got”. This requires a lot more tactical nous to break down.
I dont agree with thia. We went an entire year (or sonething stupid) when we dropped 8 odd points against teams outside of the top 6.Ole has his flaws, which are there to be seen in the smaller games where he cannot break teams down but when it comes to tactics in a big game, he seems to get it right.
There have been numerous occasions where he has outdone a top manager. No one expected us to press City and we did it, City were shocked, they thought they'll have the ball and we will sit back all game.
He done what no other manager has done in 21 games which is keeping Cancelo and Gundogan quiet. He has kept Mane and Salah quiet, he keeps doing it.
If only he could have the better players to break low blocks down.
If people praise them when we win you have to allow people to criticise them when we lose.When we win we've got the best coaching team in the country but if we draw or lose they are awful.
I get you, if we had the additional quality in the CDM or RW spot, I think we could have got more points. It is clear to see someone like Rashford needs a rest but we cannot afford to.I dont agree with thia. We went an entire year (or sonething stupid) when we dropped 8 odd points against teams outside of the top 6.
We score alnost every game v lesser sides.
Said no one.When we win we've got the best coaching team in the country but if we draw or lose they are awful.
He didn’t just keep cancelo quiet, he had to be subbed as he couldn’t deal with our leftOle has his flaws, which are there to be seen in the smaller games where he cannot break teams down but when it comes to tactics in a big game, he seems to get it right.
There have been numerous occasions where he has outdone a top manager. No one expected us to press City and we did it, City were shocked, they thought they'll have the ball and we will sit back all game.
He done what no other manager has done in 21 games which is keeping Cancelo and Gundogan quiet. He has kept Mane and Salah quiet, he keeps doing it.
If only he could have the better players to break low blocks down.
Exactly, I am tired of people saying Ole has no tactics.He didn’t just keep cancelo quiet, he had to be subbed as he couldn’t deal with our left
I don't think I can ever recall a United side that are so difficult to define. We make absolutely no sense most of the time. How any side can go from what we saw on Wednesday at Palace to what we saw yesterday is maddening, and its far from the first time that we've gone from one extreme to the other in such a short space of time.MOTD2 made a big deal about how well drilled we were whenever City had the ball. And our defensive shape did look excellent. Yes, we’ve been dull as feck in some of our big games this season but our ability to stop good teams scoring against us is not to be sneered at. How many other teams can keep a clean sheet against a Pep Guardiola team over 180 minutes of league football?
Ole has beaten Pep, one of the best technical brains in the history of football, more times than any other coach. Yet some want to convince me that he's got no tactics?
Yeah, agreed. Our form is also weird as feck. If we go into a game against City in wretched form we win every time. Go into that game after a good run of results and we’re doomed. We literally make no sense as a football team.I don't think I can ever recall a United side that are so difficult to define. We make absolutely no sense most of the time. How any side can go from what we saw on Wednesday at Palace to what we saw yesterday is maddening, and its far from the first time that we've gone from one extreme to the other in such a short space of time.
We have a forward line that have looked frankly quite poor most of the season but we are practically top scorers in the league, and a defence that most people think of as our achilles heel that are actually top drawer more often than not but prone to individual mistakes or a mad 5 minutes that almost without fail always end up costing us goals, and yet they've only conceded 1 goal (a stupid penalty) in our last 7 league games against the top 6.
I don't think it's a coincidence that this fallow period against the lesser lights of the league has predominantly come when Pogba has been out. Hopefully it won't be too long until he's back to give us that extra boost when we need it.I don't think this result changes a thing. It's a fantastic result in isolation but City play high up the pitch and leave space to counter attack in to, we already know we are devastating at that. They played into our hands and we had the luck on the day, none of their chances came off and we made the most of ours. I'm more concerned about what we do when a team sits back, that's where we struggle.
Well, that's not really true either though, in any consistent way. We have won most of our games against teams that do, some of them by a big margin.I don't think this result changes a thing. It's a fantastic result in isolation but City play high up the pitch and leave space to counter attack in to, we already know we are devastating at that. They played into our hands and we had the luck on the day, none of their chances came off and we made the most of ours. I'm more concerned about what we do when a team sits back, that's where we struggle.
Hard to think of a post that better encapsulates the general tone of this forum than the one above.I don't think this result changes a thing. It's a fantastic result in isolation but City play high up the pitch and leave space to counter attack in to, we already know we are devastating at that. They played into our hands and we had the luck on the day, none of their chances came off and we made the most of ours. I'm more concerned about what we do when a team sits back, that's where we struggle.
I remember watching an interview with Pique when Enrique came in and they started smashing records. He said he felt they were a more complete team under Enrique because they weren’t ‘allowed’ to counter attack under Pep whereas they would forsake build up play if needed with the new setup.It's like being a team that can counter good is a terrible thing. Almost looked at like it's a negative and no football.
Worse stick to beat the manager with.
People assume it's a counter with all bodies behind the ball deep in box but today not so much the case. Pressing and winning ball back quick created a lot of the breaks.
People talk like it's just defending for dear life and getting a loose ball. Whole team was well drilled today and did all aspects well
...how, exactly? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. I'm not even able to imagine the chain of reasoning that leads you to that conclusion. Because surely you're not assuming that OGS instructed the team to go out against CP and take it easy and avoid all risk?The manner in which we started against City was light years faster than against Palace. For some reason, it just isn't obvious to some. The same people who are praising Ole for yesterdays performance, and rightly so (we set up brilliantly and attacked from the go), can't see that he was largely responsible for the dropped points against Palace, SHU and WBA.
This isn't a new issue. We saw this in his first 6 months when we dropped points to teams like Cardiff and Huddersfield. Whether its complacency or being arrogant, I'm not sure but our performances against the teams named above were inexcusable and it comes down to management.
We had a good game against a team that we know is set up in a way that favours us. Not hard to see why some of us might not be getting carried away with the result.Hard to think of a post that better encapsulates the general tone of this forum than the one above.
'Result doesn't change a thing'
'They had an off day, were unlucky. We had the rub of the green'
'Played right into our hands'
'Yeah we won, but what about that other game where we didn't win that time'
We went into a game against a team that had won 20-something on the bounce. Our city rivals no less, at their stadium. Off of the back of a terrible performance midweek, and with our top 4 chances starting to look in jeopardy. Nobody gave us a chance. We won, and won well.We had a good game against a team that we know is set up in a way that favours us. Not hard to see why some of us might not be getting carried away with the result.
Until we play exactly like City (with players who aren't suited to it) some people will never be happy. It's almost a criticism on here that we have players that are good on the counter attack, people don't like it (or at least it seems that way).We went into a game against a team that had won 20-something on the bounce. Our city rivals no less, at their stadium. Off of the back of a terrible performance midweek, and with our top 4 chances starting to look in jeopardy. Nobody gave us a chance. We won, and won well.
Its pretty much everything that following sport is about to get carried away with the result! Otherwise what's the bloody point in all of this?
I've no idea what Ole says to the team before a match. But what was instructed on Wednesday was different from yesterday. Surely, you've the eyes to see that?...how, exactly? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. I'm not even able to imagine the chain of reasoning that leads you to that conclusion. Because surely you're not assuming that OGS instructed the team to go out against CP and take it easy and avoid all risk?
Ok. So explain this.. after nearly 120 matches in charge, please explain our playing 'style' ? Because, aside from 'Counter-attack and run v fast when opponents lose the ball.. I am not sure I know what it is. So please explain.Beat Pep 3 times on his own manor.
We are terribly coached indeed.
I would still expect to see posts like this if we were to win the treble again if Ole was Manager.We had a good game against a team that we know is set up in a way that favours us. Not hard to see why some of us might not be getting carried away with the result.
No, you're 100% right. It's why so many were left vastly disappointed with the game against Palace. Such a dull performance and result. Also against Chelsea, WBA, Liverpool etc.We went into a game against a team that had won 20-something on the bounce. Our city rivals no less, at their stadium. Off of the back of a terrible performance midweek, and with our top 4 chances starting to look in jeopardy. Nobody gave us a chance. We won, and won well.
Its pretty much everything that following sport is about to get carried away with the result! Otherwise what's the bloody point in all of this?
Eh up. A win over our rivals in a derby has got Jeff out of his armchair. Furious with the praise from within the fanbase.Ok. So explain this.. after nearly 120 matches in charge, please explain our playing 'style' ? Because, aside from 'Counter-attack and run v fast when opponents lose the ball.. I am not sure I know what it is. So please explain.
We have Rasford, Bruno, Greenwood, Cavani. Pogba took us through a few games. We have loads of defensive minded players. But no playing style, none.
You forget that City have battered us, at OldTrafford in recent seasons too, in a Cup semi-final no less. Where was our amazing coach then? Or the CL campaign? Or the Semi-Final against Arsenal last season. You know, the games that matter (because yesterday isn't going to change anything....). This is what annoys me, we are becoming a club satisfied by the odd result and finishing top four. And I am supposed to say that is the result of 'good' coaching?
We were top of the league a while ago..remember that? And how was our coaching then? How has our coaching been since?
its mainly because of our performances most of the season and results against teams that let us play. We basically dont look like we can play. OLe's tactics have always worked against better sides.Exactly, I am tired of people saying Ole has no tactics.
City with this new way of playing with Cancelo looked brilliant until yesterday, where we made sure they cannot use their strengths. It wasn't even the usual sit back and defend either, we looked like we can go toe to toe with City.
Imagine we add a top CDM and RW.
Fred and McTominay were crucial to the way we defended. They sat really wide, blocking off the channels between the CBs and fullbacks that City usually like to exploit. I wouldn't have fancied Pogba to play a similarly disciplined role. I expect he would have been positioned further forward if he had been fit.One could've imagine what would happen if James or Fred replaced by in form Pogba last night. Our counters would be more devastating.
Those of us who come here every day are force fed the hysterical overreactions every time we don't win a game, so its only fair that we should be able to enjoy the good moments. I know what I would rather read.No, you're 100% right. It's why so many were left vastly disappointed with the game against Palace. Such a dull performance and result. Also against Chelsea, WBA, Liverpool etc.
Honestly, you're not force fed anything. You can enjoy wins with and without Redcafe.Those of us who come here every day are force fed the hysterical overreactions every time we don't win a game, so its only fair that we should be able to enjoy the good moments. I know what I would rather read.