Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[Grande]

Speaking about the club being slow to react. How many years did Woodward need to find Murtough and give him the job?

I know it’s a joke, but I’ll answer it seriously anyway: Nine months. is what it took from Woodward replaced Gill in february 2013, until he snatched Murtough from his Head of Development position at the FA. Since then he has been groomed for this.

They did sign Bruno who has been an excellent signing, on the other hand when Spurs were close to signing him a few months earlier we weren’t interested and were pursuing Longstaff instead.

Have to remember as well these guys have been responsible for dishing out new contracts to likes of Jones recently so I think it’s quite right for there to be mixture of scepticism as well as optimism.

Isn't Matt Judge the one most responsible for contracts up till now and it seems his responsibilities are being reduced?

A balance of optimism and scepticism is surely warranted, we don’t know much about which guys did what these last seven years at the club. There have been clear progress both in terms of player aquisition and player displacement after Solskjær came, but we don’t know if Solskjær is as much the symptom of new thoughts as the bringer of new thoughts at the club. Hopefully both.

Part of the process of renewing Jones etc, can be as much the result of herky jerky decisions as of stupidity in itself. A manager wants a new CB but doesn’t mind the depth. An accountant thinks about how much can be saved by renewing Jones insteadnof buying an expensive new CB. A head of development maybe sees keeping Jones over buying New CB keeps a clear patj for Tuanzebe or Mengi. People talk past each other easily, so there is a possible boon in itself collecting the responsibility of taking in the whole perspective in one role and giving him power to execute it. And that role is better suited for an innovative football development man than a shrewd business man.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

My post replied to the series of tweets, which said this new Football Director of ours, is not the boss of Ole's head coach/ manager role. So without that authority, it still requires executive level above hand on intervene if something went wrong with the coaching department. The DOF role supposed to have authority over the manager.

Let's give him time in his new role? For someone who waltz in and be placed above the manager when he wasn't before would be slightly odd. Maybe the idea is that in due course he would have jurisdiction over managerial appointments too depending on how well he does? Seems premature to judge this as being pointless or revolutionary. But for me, at least we are identifying problems and trying to rejig things.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

. The DOF role supposed to have authority over the manager.

Loads still moaning for the sake of moaning I see, personally I wouldn’t want a DoF undermining the manager, much better if they can veto each other and thus work together on what is best for the club.

 

[JPRouve]

Loads still moaning for the sake of moaning I see, personally I wouldn’t want a DoF undermining the manager, much better if they can veto each other and thus work together on what is best for the club.

That makes no sense. It's not about undermining, having authority over something/someone doesn't mean that you undermine it, but about the fact that if a DoF is responsible for long term results then he needs to be in control of who is executing his long term plans and the head coach is the main cog in that execution. Any other setup is nonsensical.

 

[Skills]

Let's give him time in his new role? For someone who waltz in and be placed above the manager when he wasn't before would be slightly odd. Maybe the idea is that in due course he would have jurisdiction over managerial appointments too depending on how well he does? Seems premature to judge this as being pointless or revolutionary. But for me, at least we are identifying problems and trying to rejig things.

You're right. The problem with putting a DOF in place with a manager already there makes it a bit awkward - you either visibly knock the current manager down the pecking order or you end up with a bloated structure (as we've done).

I think when we hire the next manger, that will automatically streamline the structure as he'll be hired by Murtough himself.

 

[Gasolin]

You're right. The problem with putting a DOF in place with a manager already there makes it a bit awkward - you either visibly knock the current manager down the pecking order or you end up with a bloated structure (as we've done).

I think when we hire the next manger, that will automatically streamline the structure as he'll be hired by Murtough himself.

I think you're mistaken if you don't think Ole himself has worked on putting in place that structure, which in return would also mean that he's in for a long run.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Lots of people seem to know how it will work, where did you read these inside details ?

 

[JPRouve]

Lots of people seem to know how it will work, where did you read these inside details ?

We don't know how it will work. The Athletic put an organigram in one of their article some people are happy with it because the DoF isn't above the manager and others think that it's a nonsensical structure when you hire a DoF.

 

[Hectic]

Can someone make one of those major crime style boards using pictures of the hierarchy with the strings between them so we can understand the backroom organisation better. Use really shady pictures if you can.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That makes no sense. It's not about undermining, having authority over something/someone doesn't mean that you undermine it, but about the fact that if a DoF is responsible for long term results then he needs to be in control of who is executing his long term plans and the head coach is the main cog in that execution. Any other setup is nonsensical.

I disagree JP, I don’t want a DoF forcing his players on the manager and giving us Shevchenko situations.
It also creates yet another situation where too much power at a football club rests in the hands of one bloke. If the DoF is shit, or past it, or lost his/her spark, then the whole club is shit, similar to our situation the past years.

If the director of football feels the manager isn’t the right one to work with him, then he should allay those fears to the board for them to make the ultimate decision, and let’s remember our advisory board includes people like Alex Ferguson and David Gill.

 

[JPRouve]

I disagree JP, I don’t want a DoF forcing his players on the manager and giving us Shevchenko situations.
It also creates yet another situation where too much power at a football club rests in the hands of one bloke.
If the director of football feels the manager isn’t the right one to work with him, then he should allay those fears to the board for them to make the ultimate decision, and let’s remember our advisory board includes people like Alex Ferguson and David Gill.

So what is the point of a DoF for you?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So what is the point of a DoF for you?

I’d say his primary role is as the first line of contact between agents & players, who works together with the recruitment board and manager to ensure the recruitment fits the clubs ethos and doesn’t go all self indulgent LVG/Mourinho on us.
He should have veto power and he should be the boss of the scouting team.

 

[Skills]

So what is the point of a DoF for you?

I reckon for most of our fanbase the purpose is going to be another guy to take the slack, to 'take the pressure off the manager'

 

[rollingstoned1]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Does this mean Fletcher is being relieved of his coaching duties to which he was appointed only recently to now become a technical director? Or is it a dual role? Not that I'm an expert but he seemed to have a good footballing brain whenever I heard him speak about the game and players like him generally tend to do well as coaches, more than the ones who had an abundance of natural ability. I would have preferred him as a member of the backroom staff if nothing else then just to see what impact he was having.

Of course, all these titles seem to blur into more or less the same thing to me eg Sporting Director, Director of football, Technical director, etc.

 

[Water Melon]

So, it is Woody with 2 direct subordinates:
a) Ole who is responsible for the first team and it's performances.
b) John Murtough, resposible for football affairs in general.

The above two are interconnected via Darren Fletcher.

Something new, but seems to make sense. Here's hoping it all works out in the best way possible.

 

[RkkMan]

So what is the point of a DoF for you?

Having a footballing mind(not a business mind) to help make the footballing decisions ALONGSIDE the manager, Technical Director and scouts so as to be able to give more valuable input not IN PLACE of them thus completely undermining one party.

 

[Skills]

I’d say his primary role is as the first line of contact between agents & players, who works together with the recruitment board and manager to ensure the recruitment fits the clubs ethos and doesn’t go all self indulgent LVG/Mourinho on us.
He should have veto power and he should be the boss of the scouting team.

Sounds like you wanted a chief scout to me

 

[GBBQ]

So what is the point of a DoF for you?

I mean isn't the point of the DOF that we have continuity in our planning and not a reset after every manager moves on. Giving Murtough all the power doesn't solve the problem of bad decision making it just shifts the potential weakness from the manager to the DOF.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Sounds like you wanted a chief scout to me

We have a chief scout. His job is to scout.
A director of football also needs to work with a technical director and other parts of the club to decide on what kind of football we teach all the way through the youth and Academy, he doesn’t just scout he wants the scouts to look for a particular type of player that fits in with the ideas of the technical director and manager.

In the event that we change manager then he would also have a very strong say in a kind of manager that he believes fits the direction the club works in, certainly much better than what a money man like Woodward would have.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I mean isn't the point of the DOF that we have continuity in our planning and not a reset after every manager moves on. Giving Murtough all the power doesn't solve the problem of bad decision making it just shifts the potential weakness from the manager to the DOF.

Yup, that’s the point I made earlier. As though putting all the power into the hands of one man has served us well since Fergie left.

 

[Eyepopper]

You got me there, big guy. Queiroz was a shit hire cause he had won nada before United while Carrick and Phelan are the most accomplished assistants out there, worthy of nothing but praise. How dare I, the lost poster I am, suggest otherwise. Thanks for your concern, citizen, I will jump on that proper road now.

What an odd post, all I'm saying is that, excluding hindsight, there was nothing to suggest, at the time, that Queiroz was an inspirational hire. He was, as it turned out, but I'm sure there were plenty at the time who considered it as uninspiring as having Carrick, Butt & Phelan in the backroom.. even though, on paper, all 3 are more qualified than Queiroz was when he was hired.

 

[sullydnl]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Does this mean Fletcher is being relieved of his coaching duties to which he was appointed only recently to now become a technical director? Or is it a dual role? Not that I'm an expert but he seemed to have a good footballing brain whenever I heard him speak about the game and players like him generally tend to do well as coaches, more than the ones who had an abundance of natural ability. I would have preferred him as a member of the backroom staff if nothing else then just to see what impact he was having.

Of course, all these titles seem to blur into more or less the same thing to me eg Sporting Director, Director of football, Technical director, etc.

Ole said will still be involved in the coaching set up too, albeit in a more limited way.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

An extra layer of deflection from Woodward and The Glazers when they only spend £30m this Summer.

They can throw out these 2 as cannon fodder at any protests.

How will that work. We will have already forgotten these two exist by the summer.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

How will that work. We will have already forgotten these two exist by the summer.

Yup, as it the fanbase will suddenly stop blaming everything on Woody and the Glazers if we have a shit window

 

[Bilbo]

I mean isn't the point of the DOF that we have continuity in our planning and not a reset after every manager moves on. Giving Murtough all the power doesn't solve the problem of bad decision making it just shifts the potential weakness from the manager to the DOF.

Yes

United fans have become obsessed with the idea of a DoF because we've hired what are, on the surface, managers with different footballing philosophies and this has caused serious squad issues. They think that a DoF will somehow ensure that the club transitions seamlessly through significant senior-level change, when in reality most managers lose their jobs because something isn't working so transition to an extent is actually not a negative thing, its essential.

Theres a very high likelihood that we wont see any change whatsoever at the level that outsiders (us) can identify. Its a repackaging of our existing senior management team and I'm sure its a positive thing since Murtough seems to have a very strong record of success in whatever he touches.

 

[Hectic]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Does this mean Fletcher is being relieved of his coaching duties to which he was appointed only recently to now become a technical director? Or is it a dual role? Not that I'm an expert but he seemed to have a good footballing brain whenever I heard him speak about the game and players like him generally tend to do well as coaches, more than the ones who had an abundance of natural ability. I would have preferred him as a member of the backroom staff if nothing else then just to see what impact he was having.

Of course, all these titles seem to blur into more or less the same thing to me eg Sporting Director, Director of football, Technical director, etc.

Yeah Fletcher said he was planning on leaving the club in the summer but the club promoted him instead.

 

[Mickson]

This looks better than before, a better structure with more competent people higher up. However, I'm not impressed with our signings. A top club doesn't sign a player like Wan-Bissaka, and especially not for £50m. A well-worked smooth scouting system doesn't sign Maguire for £80m. A well-worked club doesn't sign Van dee Beek, without having any idea on how to use him when he doesn't fit the style of play. Bruno was a success but I'm not impressed by our transfers in the last ten years and not in the last two years either, so does this actually change anything regarding WHO we buy? I don't know. But as others have said, this will give us a better structure when the manager is gone and that is good. But still worried about transfers and our type of transfers.

 

[Dante]

Club Hierarchy according to the Athletic

Spoiler

That looks like a Scouse family tree.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Theres a very high likelihood that we wont see any change whatsoever at the level that outsiders (us) can identify. Its a repackaging of our existing senior management team and I'm sure its a positive thing since Murtough seems to have a very strong record of success in whatever he touches.

That would be my take on it, too.

 

[wolvored]

In an ideal world, in a nutshell, the DOF will look at all aspects of the club long and short term. The manager just has to look at the current season and how he can better it the season after. Will this happen at Utd? Will Deadwood Woodward let them get on with it and back Murtoughs decisions?

Or will it just be another tier to pass the buck? When Oles eventually sacked Woody will probably say Murtough sacked him, it was his job, even though its filtered from the top down. Every time we dont win anything. The next manager thats eventually hired and sacked, will all be Murtoughs fault.

Lets hope its the former.

 

[RkkMan]

This looks better than before, a better structure with more competent people higher up. However, I'm not impressed with our signings. A top club doesn't sign a player like Wan-Bissaka, and especially not for £50m. A well-worked smooth scouting system doesn't sign Maguire for £80m. A well-worked club doesn't sign Van dee Beek, without having any idea on how to use him when he doesn't fit the style of play. Bruno was a success but I'm not impressed by our transfers in the last ten years and not in the last two years either, so does this actually change anything regarding WHO we buy? I don't know. But as others have said, this will give us a better structure when the manager is gone and that is good. But still worried about transfers and our type of transfers.

Since Ole came in our recruitment has been good
Maguire and AWB- Yes they were overpriced but it was a pre COVID market where EVERYONE was overpriced and our defence which was AWFUL at the time needed PL proven players to come in and settle in quickly which they did we went from 54 PL goals conceded the worst record in the top 10 to 36 goals and the most cleansheets in Europe. AWB is the best 1V1 fullback in the World and currently has one of the best attacking stats among PL RBs at just 23 he'll get better. Maguire is a massive upgrade on our CBs post Fergie era since he came to Utd last season no other PL defender has more cleansheets to his name than him(look it up it's true)his only major weakness is pace but other areas of his game are good and dependable not an £80m CB but a good one who would start for every PL team
Dan James- At £15m he was always a squad player signing and this season after a rocky spell last season he's finally looking the part.
Bruno- No words needed
Telles- At £15m he's provided very good competition for Shaw who's terrific now and has been a dependable player we can rotate Shaw with.
We've only lost one game where Telles has started for us
Cavani- As a free transfer he's been solid people expected an Alexis/Falcao but he's been miles better. He's not had a Zlatan effect but he's been reliable enough whenever called upon and scored some important goals for us. I'd personally let him go at the end of the season but he's served his purpose well as a short term buy
Diallo/Pellistri- Those two are for the future we'll judge them down the line
Van De Beek is the only questionable signing we've made under Ole and I'd personally sell him and reinvest funds if we are apparently planning to promote Mejbri into the first team.
Overall these changes in the transfer committee have come under Ole under who the recruitment has been good so let's hope it follows a similar trajectory

 

[sullydnl]

How quickly do you think we can judge how this system is fairing? And what will you be judging them on that you wouldn't be able to ascribe to either the manager (in terms of performances) or the owners (in terms of raw funds available for recruitment)?

 

[Zoo]

Great!

we’ve appointed a scouser, is he a klopp agent?

Murtough is a Manc and supports United apparently.

 

[Mickson]

Since Ole came in our recruitment has been good
Maguire and AWB- Yes they were overpriced but it was a pre COVID market where EVERYONE was overpriced and our defence which was AWFUL at the time needed PL proven players to come in and settle in quickly which they did we went from 54 PL goals conceded the worst record in the top 10 to 36 goals and the most cleansheets in Europe. AWB is the best 1V1 fullback in the World and currently has one of the best attacking stats among PL RBs at just 23 he'll get better. Maguire is a massive upgrade on our CBs post Fergie era since he came to Utd last season no other PL defender has more cleansheets to his name than him(look it up it's true)his only major weakness is pace but other areas of his game are good and dependable not an £80m CB but a good one who would start for every PL team
Dan James- At £15m he was always a squad player signing and this season after a rocky spell last season he's finally looking the part.
Bruno- No words needed
Telles- At £15m he's provided very good competition for Shaw who's terrific now and has been a dependable player we can rotate Shaw with.
We've only lost one game where Telles has started for us
Cavani- As a free transfer he's been solid people expected an Alexis/Falcao but he's been miles better. He's not had a Zlatan effect but he's been reliable enough whenever called upon and scored some important goals for us. I'd personally let him go at the end of the season but he's served his purpose well as a short term buy
Diallo/Pellistri- Those two are for the future we'll judge them down the line
Van De Beek is the only questionable signing we've made under Ole and I'd personally sell him and reinvest funds if we are apparently planning to promote Mejbri into the first team.
Overall these changes in the transfer committee have come under Ole under who the recruitment has been good so let's hope it follows a similar trajectory

I guess we have different standards for what is good, because I don't think any of them is a good buy. I agree that Maguire and AWB have strengthened our team, but for that kind of money it's not good signings and I don't see AWB and Maguire being in the heart of a title-winning defense. I can also argue that our defense is much worse than last season, so I don't think it's fair only judging by the 19/20 season.

 

[laughtersassassin]

How quickly do you think we can judge how this system is fairing? And what will you be judging them on that you wouldn't be able to ascribe to either the manager (in terms of performances) or the owners (in terms of raw funds available for recruitment)?

Be able to properly judge in next 2 summers.

But we should be able to get a good indication this summer.

Our business is usually slow and done very late. No legit club benefits from this. Let's see if we manage to buy and sell earlier and get better players than we did last summer

 

[Grande]

Seems a strange outcome this?

Are there two new (additional posts) that have been created to meet defined job roles, or is it just new job titles, (with some extra pay) and extra duties aligned for existing staff?

TBH it doesn't fill me with excitement or confidence really, were the jobs advertised, was there an application and interview process, or did they both just get the 'nod'?

Best of luck to both of them, I feel they are going to need it, especially if it eventually becomes clear they are just Ed's 'whipping boys'.

Underwhelming news. What United have here is repackaging, with Woodward and judge still having a key influence over transfers and player contracts. Real progress would be moving both away from those roles and replacing them with someone competent.

Being cynical this is essentially a strawman appointment. He was already in house and we just shifted some people to new titles. Go back to your regularly scheduled program folks.

Woodward just invented some titles for these guys and called it a day, didn't he. Decoys for the almighty Ed, our real DOF and overlord. Lurking in the shadows, plotting transfers and stuff.

Is it a coincidence that almost all of the ‘inside scam revealed’ posts have almost no facts about inside knowledge included in them?

It’s as if being clairvoyant is viewed as a substitute for being informed.

 

[UnitedSofa]

feck they were uninspiring as players too. McLaren didn't win anything before he came as coach to SAF. Carrick nor Phelan won anything before they came to United as players. Carlos ands McLaren instantly changed the dynamics according to SAF. A good leader knows to how to select good subordinates.

As for Carlos, he won the Cup with CP and also wrote the Q Report for Soccer USA and is a Graduate from Lisbon University. He is no middle of the road guy who happened to be a football manager.

If United had appointed an British/English or less than exciting named equivalent to what Queiroz had achieved above, this place would be in even more of a meltdown that it already is with Murtough's appointment!

So you have to win something to be classed as good then? Feck, might as well have waited to sign Rooney and Ronaldo then, needed them to win something before they can sign for United. Might as well not sign a WC striker in Harry Kane either as he hasn't achieved anything. Must be cr*p. How stupid of me!

That's only for now. Once Solskjaer gets sacked/moved on, that structure will get streamlined and the managers title will be downgraded to a head coach and his personal scout will be fecked off as part of it.

Once that happens, that's not an unreasonable amount of people involved in decisions involving 100s of million pounds per season.

This forum man STILL pushing the narrative that Ole will be sacked or moved on at some point in the very near future. If anything these appointments mean that Ole is here for the long haul and you'll have to get used to it.

Very strange how these two appointments are great for the club and someone has still managed to bring it round to the discussion of Ole being sacked. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

This thread is mostly just full of fans who have no idea how a football club, or a business, is run.

A DOF isn't the boss of a manager at other clubs either. They work together on different areas of responsibility to make the club the best possible it can be.

The Manager handles the day to day work and improvement of the first team, while the DOF looks at more long-term development of the club as a whole, in tandem with the manager to help ensure that the long-term development will fit into what the manager will need for his day to day in a year or more, but thinking of the club first and not purely what the manager wants.

Now if there's a total clash between them, the DOF might raise concerns to the CEO who is likely to discuss it with the board. If they think the current results delivered by the manager is substandard, and looks unlikely to improve any time soon, with the added weight of the DOF's reasoning for why the long-term development strategy will continue to crash with the manager. Then the board is likely to fire the manager, and the DOF will present the CEO with candidates for manager that will work with the long-term plans. They will likely interview candidates together but the CEO makes the final call on who will be presented to the board for approval. (It's common in business to have a person you will work alongside with co-interview you with both your boss.)

As for complaints about too many scouts with similar sounding titles.

I don't even know for certain, but an educated guess from comparing rolenames in other businesses is:

Chief Scout - The direct report boss of all our scouts on payroll that goes out physically to watch games for players we are interested in.

Chief Technical Scout - The direct report boss of all our data analysts that spends time going through data from games, trainings and so on.

Head of Global Scouting - The person responsible for working with all the other scouting networks around the world that we collaborate with. We don't have scouts directly employed at all levels around the world, but this guy gets reports on players from youth level in South America or Siberian Tundra or whatever.

Then you have their boss who collates it all together, helping the departments on day to day what their needs are, and presents the findings to the DOF who discusses with the manager about possible players to buy.

Often the manager already has a shopping list of players he thinks will work in the team, and the DOF manages this down the scouting structure until reports are back up that can be discussed with the manager if the scouting team and DOF agrees with the manager that we should attempt to sign some of these players.

The manager's personal scout is for when Ole is extra interested in certain players, so Ole directs where he goes, and he reports to Ole for him to have extra talking points, but ultimately answers to the total scouting structure if we are to move on certain players.

Great Post!

Yeah Fletcher said he was planning on leaving the club in the summer but the club promoted him instead.

Did he? You sure? Very much doubt it to be honest! Why would he join as a coach and then leave less than 6 months later and only 3 or so months until the end of the season, if that? Makes no sense whatsoever?

 

[sullydnl]

Judge for sure 2 summers.

But we should be able to get s good indication this summer.

Our business is usually slow and dine very late. No legit club benefits from this. Let's see if we manager to buy and sell earlier and get better players than we did last summer

Yep, good point. I'd love to see us become quicker at securing deals, even if the standard of deals remains exactly the same. Having players bed in early over the summer makes a difference.

 

[Bilbo]

This looks better than before, a better structure with more competent people higher up. However, I'm not impressed with our signings. A top club doesn't sign a player like Wan-Bissaka, and especially not for £50m. A well-worked smooth scouting system doesn't sign Maguire for £80m. A well-worked club doesn't sign Van dee Beek, without having any idea on how to use him when he doesn't fit the style of play. Bruno was a success but I'm not impressed by our transfers in the last ten years and not in the last two years either, so does this actually change anything regarding WHO we buy? I don't know. But as others have said, this will give us a better structure when the manager is gone and that is good. But still worried about transfers and our type of transfers.

You're in the minority then. Most people, fans of the club and otherwise, acknowledge that United have largely gotten their act together in the market. Doesnt mean mistakes won't be made

 

[Fluctuation0161]

How will that work. We will have already forgotten these two exist by the summer.

Like I said, it is only an extra layer of protection for them. Not an impenetrable shield.