Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Foxbatt]

The issue is that if this was Leicester or even a small club Ole would have been doing a brilliant job. Even to be in the CL spot. But for a club like Manchester United that's among the biggest clubs in the world, just getting into the CL year after year without winning the PL is simply not good enough.
Pep may win the quadruple still and I hope not but I think he certainly is going to win the PL.
So no one is asking Ole to beat SAF. If he wins either the PL or the CL he has done what only two managers were able to achieve. That gets him to a legend as a manager. It's the least one would expect from a manager at Manchester United.

 

[Tom Cato]

Bringing FM into a debate and trying to look credible

Well not really, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous is it to compare player salaries to potential performance in elite clubs.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well not really, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous is it to compare player salaries to potential performance in elite clubs.

I was taking the piss.

 

[Tom Cato]

I was taking the piss.

Me too, my comments are painfully low effort

 

[Robbie Boy]

Me too, my comments are painfully low effort

Well it is that time of the day.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

But we are not talking about a single player improvement are we? We are talking about a whole team.

Its like saying who do you think will do better here Messi or Daniel James, sure we could give a lot of explanation saying Messi works under a very specific system, how produced his best stats with Xavier and Iniesta arguing he wasnt as successful with Argentina for example, etc but ultimately you dont need to. Simple logic says that Messi would do better than Daniel James.

Same case for me of Pep and Ole, they are so far apart in quality that analyzing a bunch of factors is not really necessary to know who would do better.

Who said it's about a single player's improvement? You are getting further away from the discussion/point

We are talking about Pep is working with the current players we have right now. If the current players we have suits Ole's style more than Pep, what are you going to say about that? That's why your lazy argument is irrelevant. And I will repeat the example again, since Pep Guardiola is a better manager than Manuel Pellegrini & Mancini, so why Pep Guardiola couldn't get the best out of Yaya Toure? Because the player doesn't suit his style right? This shows being better manager lacks of enough context to what we are discussing.

First of all no one say Pep is not better than Ole since that's not the argument. Second, non-sense to say Messi needs specific system. Because in national team he has scored 71 goals in 142 appearances. And also Messi has worked with different manager with different system and different players.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm not above having my mind changed, so feel free to refute the argument. I've already explained my reasons as to why I think Rodgers is the better coach, and its nothing to do with Ole bashing or knee jerking on the back of recent results.

I'll try to put a counter-argument by looking at Rodgers history. Only fair. I do believe that managers can improve and also that Rodgers has improved, but this forum loves to look at Ole's career prior to United so lets go there.

His European record is the biggest concern by far. Its woeful. He doesn't have a single victory against a renowned coach, and he's lost a lot of games to teams that he should be beating

Liverpool
2012/2013 Lost in Europa League round of 32 to Zenit
2014/2015 Failed to qualify from a CL group containing Real Madrid, Basel & Ludogorets, with only 1 victory against Ludogorets. Then went on to lose the round of 32 tie in the Europa League to Besiktas

His Celtic record leaves a lot to be desired, but probably not hugely relevant to this given the strength of the Scottish league, but worth noting 7-0 & 7-1 losses to Barcelona and PSG. No shame in losing to those sides with Celtic, but those are massacres.

Leicester
2020/2021 Lost in Europa League round of 32 to Slavia Prague

Its the very first thing that would be picked apart should he ever land a job of the profile of our club again. He's shown nothing in Europe to suggest that he belongs at the top table, but plenty of reasons to fear that he doesn't. This isn't even yet mentioning that his Leicester side, and yes they had injury issues, threw away a 8 point gap over United with 9 games to play. They won only two of those. They also lost (or to use Cafe wording, bottled or choked) a quite easy-on-paper League cup semi-final against Villa, who were battling relegation.

I've watched some Leicester games (incl Sunday) when they have been very good. I've also seen some matches, particularly the Arsenal home loss. where they were every bit as bad as we were on Sunday and people were starting to talk of another collapse. To his credit they have steadied the ship.

His personal record against Ole reads W1 D1 L3, so there's also that if we need a direct comparison.

I've put this out there not to discredit Rodgers, who again I think is a good to very good coach, but would you look at his record without bias and suggest that he should undoubtedly be viewed as a better coach than Ole right now? I don't see it, and his credentials do not support it.

 

[Amir]

If you think LVG and Mourinho weren't good managers and we need to cycle through some more to find another SAF-like anomaly, then we disagree. Seems like a lottery strategy as opposed to giving the guy that's involved with making structural changes to the club another year.

I think LVG and Mourinho were brilliant managers... once upon a time. By the time we got them, they were both dinasaurs who were left behind by the game. They weren't the only problem at United, but caused their own downfall by not going very good work.

We shouldn't hire managers based on a lottery system. However, the approach that made Solskjaer the manager and is keeping him at the job is no better in my opinion.

A manager's primary job isn't to "get the players". The James example is a bit of misleading, his price tag was one of the reasons we bought him. I'm sure Ole wasn't too dissapointed he didn't turn out to be Ribery and walk into our starting XI.

Maguire would be a better example. You could say Ole should have said no, but what if:

• the other candidates were equally overpriced because we're terrible at negotations?
• the club was unable to juggle multiple ongoing negotations and only Maguire was left standing in August?
• Ole only identified a handful of targets that weren't attainable and the scouting department didn't have a few lined up themselves?

Should he have identified even more targets? Should he have gotten Ed coffee so he'd do a better job? Would we be blaming him if he said no and gotten a worse CB instead? (Yes)

It's possible Ole overvalued Maguire, but given our history with overpaying across different managers it's unlikely.

If other options did not exist by the time we signed Maguire, then we had another option: Sign no one. If Spending tons on a centerhalf who is good but has issues causes long term problems because we'll always have to compensate for his weaknesses, then maybe you should think long term, take a few more months and look at other options.

My belief is such a thing was never going to happen because we were obviousy weak defensively and Solskjaer was desperate to improve that, if only because he knew it might cost him his job. That deal was not brilliant for United and, as I've said, may be an issue going forward. But it helped perserve the manager.

You may say that it emphasize the problem of having a manager who is not secure in his position and might be making deals that are right for him and less right for the club. Which is probably why there is a lot of merit in a structure that doesn't give the manager all the power - by using a DOF or transfer commitee.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

He wasn't and still isn't fancied at all by so many people and yet here he is

Shouldn't the question be asked, why is that? Are people jealous of Ole? Do they have a vendetta against for some reason? Or is it they just see something that doesn't convince them enough that Ole has what it takes to take us back to the top without having any blinkers on?

I watch our games with Spanish commentators and they're anything but complimentary about Ole. And I'm willing to beat a large slice of my pay check you'd be hard pushed to find many throughout the footballing world that think Ole is doing a great job. So it's not just jealous ex PL pundits with agendas taling negatively about him. Even the ex United pundits are saying Ole needs to win something now instead of them saying he needs more time. Like it or not the pressure is mounting on Ole which wouldn't be the case if things were going as rosy as some people think on here.

The Glazers/Ed talking about giving Ole a large contract now even before the season finishes doesn't necessarily mean they are 100% behind him. It could just as easily mean Ole is the perfect foil for them to continue running the club as they have been but without any of the noises we've had from last managers. Genius really.

 

[rotherham_red]

Why would you prefer that?

That makes zero sense.

The FA Cup is absolutely irrelevant at this point. The FA void winning it if you finish top 4 (which we likely will).

Europa league as much as I hate it gives a far greater prize of CL qualification.

Twenty years ago we took a dump on the FA Cup and refused to play in it, from there its lost any relevancy pretty much. The FA have silently agreed and its reward of a EL spot is only there for midtable teams like West Ham, Southampton etc as a route to European football.

Because of two reasons.

Firstly, we're clearly running on fumes at this moment in time and playing potentially a further 4 2-legged ties as well as a final is a surefire way of exacerbating that tiredness, especially since it's going to be a summer where a lot of our players will be at the Copa America/Euros/AFCON at some point this summer/next winter. Compared to just another 2 more games in the FA Cup, it would have been worth it for me.

Secondly, we haven't won the FA Cup in a while and Arsenal have overtaken us as the record winners of it. I grew up on the FA Cup wins in the 90s and an FA Cup win always feels that extra bit special to me. The EL is great and all, but in this truncated season where we haven't had a much of a rest at all since June 2020, I just think I'd rather take the hit there and focus on the league and FA Cup, but now that we're out, I do hope we finally go all the way in it and win it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Who said it's about a single player's improvement? You are getting further away from the discussion/point

You did, when you took Yaya Toure's example.

We are talking about Pep is working with the current players we have right now. If the current players we have suits Ole's style more than Pep, what are you going to say about that? That's why your lazy argument is irrelevant. And I will repeat the example again, since Pep Guardiola is a better manager than Manuel Pellegrini & Mancini, so why Pep Guardiola couldn't get the best out of Yaya Toure? Because the player doesn't suit his style right? This shows being better manager lacks of enough context to what we are discussing.

First of all no one say Pep is not better than Ole since that's not the argument. Second, non-sense to say Messi needs specific system. Because in national team he has scored 71 goals in 142 appearances. And also Messi has worked with different manager with different system and different players.

Haha mate its always the same with you, you just keep going and going and going, I gave my reasons as I said I dont think its worth discussing this since for me its clear. Also its an hypotetical question so lets leave it there, you think Ole due to the players we has done better than what Pep could/would, I think Pep being a better manager could/would have done a better job.

 

[Keefy18]

Because of two reasons.

Firstly, we're clearly running on fumes at this moment in time and playing potentially a further 4 2-legged ties as well as a final is a surefire way of exacerbating that tiredness, especially since it's going to be a summer where a lot of our players will be at the Copa America/Euros/AFCON at some point this summer/next winter. Compared to just another 2 more games in the FA Cup, it would have been worth it for me.

Secondly, we haven't won the FA Cup in a while and Arsenal have overtaken us as the record winners of it. I grew up on the FA Cup wins in the 90s and an FA Cup win always feels that extra bit special to me. The EL is great and all, but in this truncated season where we haven't had a much of a rest at all since June 2020, I just think I'd rather take the hit there and focus on the league and FA Cup, but now that we're out, I do hope we finally go all the way in it and win it.

First point, I get that but still the Europa is the more beneficial tournament for us. I see no point in winning the FA Cup.

Second, we won it in 2015, not that long ago.

I do agree we are exhausted looking in most games but Ole I think wants to guarantee CL football again regardless of fatigue.

This club needs it for any number of reasons. We're making less on the shirt sponsor from next season and no doubt failing to get CL football is a penalty included (stand to be corrected but I doubt that has changed).

We get CL football back to back and hopefully we look a more enticing prospect to potential signings, along with the added revenue it brings.

 

[Bilbo]

Shouldn't the question be asked, why is that? Are people jealous of Ole? Do they have a vendetta against for some reason? Or is it they just see something that doesn't convince them enough that Ole has what it takes to take us back to the top without having any blinkers on?

I watch our games with Spanish commentators and they're anything but complimentary about Ole. And I'm willing to beat a large slice of my pay check you'd be hard pushed to find many throughout the footballing world that think Ole is doing a great job. So it's not just jealous ex PL pundits with agendas taling negatively about him. Even the ex United pundits are saying Ole needs to win something now instead of them saying he needs more time. Like it or not the pressure is mounting on Ole which wouldn't be the case if things were going as rosy as some people think on here.

The Glazers/Ed talking about giving Ole a large contract now even before the season finishes doesn't necessarily mean they are 100% behind him. It could just as easily mean Ole is the perfect foil for them to continue running the club as they have been but without any of the noises we've had from last managers. Genius really.

I've thought about that quite a bit previously, and the best I can come up with is this:

Part of it is down to the way he got this role, so out of the blue and on an interim basis. It plants the notion of him being a chancer, someone who lucked his way into a huge job. Another part is because he hasn't won anything yet, of course. More than those though, and I think Lampard suffered the same thing though I stress that I think Ole is a much stronger manager than Frank, is that people are unable to take the persona they have of him as a player and equate that to the persona they would like to see in a manager.

Your last point is a perfect example of that. In your eyes he is some sort of patsy that shovels the Glazers shit and they love it. He is pigeon-holed as a smiling yes man. No offence but I find that point of view completely ridiculous. It's also a little insulting, and it's part of the problem.

People believe what they hear & what they read. I dont care about any of that. I care about what's happened within the club, and if people could strip their agendas away they would see that he's done enough to warrant a new contract and more time to realise this teams potential.

 

[rotherham_red]

First point, I get that but still the Europa is the more beneficial tournament for us. I see no point in winning the FA Cup.

Second, we won it in 2015, not that long ago.

I do agree we are exhausted looking in most games but Ole I think wants to guarantee CL football again regardless of fatigue.

This club needs it for any number of reasons. We're making less on the shirt sponsor from next season and no doubt failing to get CL football is a penalty included (stand to be corrected but I doubt that has changed).

We get CL football back to back and hopefully we look a more enticing prospect to potential signings, along with the added revenue it brings.

I get your points but I think we'll be getting CL football irrespective of EL by virtue of the league placing. We're currently second and most of the top 4 contenders are playing each other, as well as City. We have a 6 point cushion on 4th place and an 8 point cushion on 5th. I think both ourselves and Leicester should be absolutely fine (the only question mark is Leicester's brutal last 3 games).

Therefore, the EL is a nice to have rather than essential (unless we're talking about Ole needing a trophy, in which case I'd agree, but I wouldn't necessarily rank it above any other trophy, other than the Carabao)

 

[Keefy18]

I get your points but I think we'll be getting CL football irrespective of EL by virtue of the league placing. We're currently second and most of the top 4 contenders are playing each other, as well as City. We have a 6 point cushion on 4th place and an 8 point cushion on 5th. I think both ourselves and Leicester should be absolutely fine (the only question mark is Leicester's brutal last 3 games).

Therefore, the EL is a nice to have rather than essential (unless we're talking about Ole needing a trophy, in which case I'd agree, but I wouldn't necessarily rank it above any other trophy, other than the Carabao)

I agree and in that scenario it basically renders the FA Cup win invalid as it the league placing trumps winning it. All it gives us is a Charity shield spot for next season then.

It really isn't worth a fiddlers fart anymore which is really sad to think with its history and so many great moments we've had in it.

 

[Tallis]

I've thought about that quite a bit previously, and the best I can come up with is this:

Part of it is down to the way he got this role, so out of the blue and on an interim basis. It plants the notion of him being a chancer, someone who lucked his way into a huge job. Another part is because he hasn't won anything yet, of course. More than those though, and I think Lampard suffered the same thing though I stress that I think Ole is a much stronger manager than Frank, is that people are unable to take the persona they have of him as a player and equate that to the persona they would like to see in a manager.

Your last point is a perfect example of that. In your eyes he is some sort of patsy that shovels the Glazers shit and they love it. He is pigeon-holed as a smiling yes man. No offence but I find that point of view completely ridiculous. It's also a little insulting, and it's part of the problem.

People believe what they hear & what they read. I dont care about any of that. I care about what's happened within the club, and if people could strip their agendas away they would see that he's done enough to warrant a new contract and more time to realise this teams potential.

I think the English pundits have figured out that it’s easier to get more “views” if you’re critical of Ole. Most fans are “simple minded” and don’t care about incremental slow progress. It’s also easier to bash him because he is not British and doesn’t come with a football managerial pedigree. Not to say that they won’t bash anyone who meets this criteria but just that it’s easier to bash him due to the sands of this criteria. Even to this today, the pundits are weary of being critical of Lampard even though his term was pretty much a disaster. If I was a fan who never watched matches and only listened to the pundits, I would believe that Lampost was a good manager and Chelsea sacked him too soon whereas Ole is an incompetent idiot who should never have the job

 

[Skåre Willoch]

If he wins either the PL or the CL he has done what only two managers were able to achieve. That gets him to a legend as a manager. It's the least one would expect from a manager at Manchester United.

Sorry, but what?
Becoming a legendary manager is the least one would expect from a manager at Manchester United? The least?!

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I think LVG and Mourinho were brilliant managers... once upon a time. By the time we got them, they were both dinasaurs who were left behind by the game. They weren't the only problem at United, but caused their own downfall by not going very good work.

We shouldn't hire managers based on a lottery system. However, the approach that made Solskjaer the manager and is keeping him at the job is no better in my opinion.



If other options did not exist by the time we signed Maguire, then we had another option: Sign no one. If Spending tons on a centerhalf who is good but has issues causes long term problems because we'll always have to compensate for his weaknesses, then maybe you should think long term, take a few more months and look at other options.

My belief is such a thing was never going to happen because we were obviousy weak defensively and Solskjaer was desperate to improve that, if only because he knew it might cost him his job. That deal was not brilliant for United and, as I've said, may be an issue going forward. But it helped perserve the manager.

You may say that it emphasize the problem of having a manager who is not secure in his position and might be making deals that are right for him and less right for the club. Which is probably why there is a lot of merit in a structure that doesn't give the manager all the power - by using a DOF or transfer commitee.

Smalling hasn't looked good whenever I've seen him play. But let's assume he's not past it, can you blame Ole for wanting a CB thats better on the ball than Smalling and Bailly?

You're complaining about "his slowness" Maguire, would you not moan about our distribution from the back (and blame it on Ole) had we kept Smalling?

The "dinosaur" line of reasoning might be true for Mourinho, not so much for LVG.

When we signed him, he had just finished 3rd at the WC (4th best result of all time) with the worst Holland squad of the last 40 years. Before his NT job he won the CL with Bayern.

Getting LVG and letting him handle all the transfers is like getting Messi and putting him on goal. The club could've delved into his history and seen he stinked up the place as Ajax TD.

LVG's 4th and 5th place finish + cup were good achievements given the awful squad we had. A squad he helped put together, no doubt.

Unpopular opinion around here, it's an emperor's new clothes situation.

I get it man. I really wished Rojo, Schneiderlin, Lingard, Rooney, Blackett, McNair, etc were all good enough to not struggle for top 4 and LVG's poor man management and tactics were what was gating us.

Ironically, this "dinosaur" theory of LVG got us Mourinho. If only we can get that one special manager that has a trophy cabinet but isn't a dinosaur.... right?

 

[Womp]

I couldn't give two craps about his coaching staff. I'm 28 times more interested in the playing staff. What is people's fascination with our coaches all about? They put down the cones and organise a bit of 2 touch at this and every other club. Here's a question. Can you name city's coaches without googling please?

You're right, it's completely pointless. They might as well hire the caf as managers.

You're being fecking silly if you think it's not the most important aspect of a team in this current climate, with the emphasis teams are placing on it

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I've thought about that quite a bit previously, and the best I can come up with is this:

Part of it is down to the way he got this role, so out of the blue and on an interim basis. It plants the notion of him being a chancer, someone who lucked his way into a huge job. Another part is because he hasn't won anything yet, of course. More than those though, and I think Lampard suffered the same thing though I stress that I think Ole is a much stronger manager than Frank, is that people are unable to take the persona they have of him as a player and equate that to the persona they would like to see in a manager.

Your last point is a perfect example of that. In your eyes he is some sort of patsy that shovels the Glazers shit and they love it. He is pigeon-holed as a smiling yes man. No offence but I find that point of view completely ridiculous. It's also a little insulting, and it's part of the problem.

People believe what they hear & what they read. I dont care about any of that. I care about what's happened within the club, and if people could strip their agendas away they would see that he's done enough to warrant a new contract and more time to realise this teams potential.

You do make good points about how he got the job and so far not winning anything but the part about his persona as player and now manager I have my doubts about.

As I said, I watch our games on 2 of the biggest platforms on Spanish television and neither rate him as a manager. Maybe English pundits could have their agenda against Ole though I'm not too sure why because separating the player from the manager isn't that difficult but people from other countries would have absolutely no problem with any sort of comparison. I may be completely off the mark with only mentioning Spanish commentators but it's the only platform I have so It would be interesting to have feedback fromanyone else from other countries on how Ole is perceived in their respective countries.

I know you find the comments about Ole being a patsy ridiculous but there's nothing I can do about that because literally I do which is why I'm probably never going to warm to Ole but I don't have these feelings because I feel he's useless. In Oles first summer he literally came out on record and said we didn't sign any forwards because it was his choice and he made that 100% clear so there was no doubt. That he would rather start the season with 2 inconsistent forwards (at the time) in Rashford and Martial and that he'd rather give minutes to a complete rookie in Greenwood instead of bringing in an established player. Maybe he was vindicated because the 3 had a storming season but for me Ole made his own bed with those comments and that day he fell on his sword.

What's easier believe? That it really was Ole who didn't want a forward or that he was taking the heat off of Ed? What are you going to think if we have the same sort of summer as last in the transfer market and Ole comes out with he's extremely happy with the business that we've done? Would you still think he's not an Ed yes man?

 

[Bilbo]

What's easier believe? That it really was Ole who didn't want a forward or that he was taking the heat off of Ed? What are you going to think if we have the same sort of summer as last in the transfer market and Ole comes out with he's extremely happy with the business that we've done? Would you still think he's not an Ed yes man?

People always put far too much stock into what managers say publicly. How many times, really, do we ever see a manager come out and criticise his own club while he is still working there? It's a death wish, and it's just bad management. No good can come from it.

You ask what I find easiest to believe in that situation? I think he had a budget and that budget didn't stretch to another forward after he'd gotten his higher priority positions sorted. What else is he supposed to say in that instance? We scrutinise his comments because we are hungry for inside information, but we won't learn anything because they are media trained precisely so that they dont give much away. Not just Ole. All managers.

Let's not forget that he also said he'd rather have holes than arseholes, and it's not much of a stretch to conclude that Lukaku and Sanchez were disruptive influences. Their own comments since pretty much confirm it. Getting rid of them and leaving himself short was a selfless decision. Better for the club than it was for him. We should applaud that. Its his short term pain for the clubs long term gain.

People still seem to think the club stumbled upon Ole. I dont. They were looking for a certain type of manager, and Ole ticked a lot of those boxes. He wouldn't have been told "this is what we want". He would have been asked "what will you do?", and he was hired, above all of the other possibilities that we could have chosen, because his vision aligned with what the club were looking for, and he is still here because he is executing that vision. If there was any real friction there they would have had him report into Murtaugh. The fact that they are structured as equals speaks volumes.

 

[Amir]

Smalling hasn't looked good whenever I've seen him play. But let's assume he's not past it, can you blame Ole for wanting a CB thats better on the ball than Smalling and Bailly?

You're complaining about "his slowness" Maguire, would you not moan about our distribution from the back (and blame it on Ole) had we kept Smalling?

I was never bothered about having two ball playing centerhalves. Two is great, you always want your players to be as varied as possible, but one is OK. And we could have played with what we had in 2019/20 and regroup and rethink who to bring. Again - I thought getting Maguire was a job-saving exercise for Solskjaer. And I wouldn't say our distribution from the back is a big plus right now anyway.

The first things I want from a centerhalf are defensive related. I can also give him time to improve aspects if he's young enough, but pace isn't something that's going to appear.

Overall I'd prefer Maguire to Smalling, but not for 80m or anything near that. For that sort of money, you need to buy players who are really top class and that you can get to the highest level with. Being an improvement over what we had - which Maguire is - was not enough. It was a very expensive short term solution that creates a long term problem.

The "dinosaur" line of reasoning might be true for Mourinho, not so much for LVG.

When we signed him, he had just finished 3rd at the WC (4th best result of all time) with the worst Holland squad of the last 40 years. Before his NT job he won the CL with Bayern.

He didn't actually win the CL with Bayern as they lost the final, but yeah, they had a good season in 2009/10. And then they collapsed and he was sacked before the following season ended. I wasn't that impressed with the World Cup. It was a good achievement, but after the first two matches, their play was boring and lacked any sort of creativity... Kind of like LVG's United...

Anyhow, he was always a hit-and-miss manager. When it worked it was great, when it didn't it was terrible. United just wasn't a hit for him.

Ironically, this "dinosaur" theory of LVG got us Mourinho. If only we can get that one special manager that has a trophy cabinet but isn't a dinosaur.... right?

I don't give a damn about a manager's trophy cabinet. The problem indeed was that it was like we signed managers based on their trophy list on Wikipedia. I'd like for us to be clever and progressive enough to look at managers in Europe and see their work, the kind of football they play, how they improve players, etc, rather than what trophies they have won. With the gaps between the top clubs and the rest, it's so difficult for anyone who isn't part of a very select group to win trophies. But some of them just need a platform. We should be looking at those.

 

[Bobcat]

Its not a fair comparison to make considering he's managing Leicester and not United. And even then if you were comparing bottle jobs this season alone then Ole would have quite the unfortunate collection.

For the record I don't actually want Rodgers as manager and find this supposed love-fest typically fickle, having said that I still think he's a better coach than Ole and would wager he'd do a better job than him with the same resources. Doesn't mean we should hire him, its more a damning indication of Ole's ceiling as our manager IMO.

Leichester have a genuinely good squad though and have won the league much more recently than several other "big clubs", us included.

This Rodgers arse licking is making me nauseous. Hes an ex Liverpool manager and a insufferable bellend to boot. Who the feck commissions a massive painting of themselves and hangs it in their house? Unless your one of the Kardashians or 17 century royalty thats completely unacceptable. Absolutely disgusting

 

[Robbie Boy]

Leichester have a genuinely good squad though and have won the league much more recently than several other "big clubs", us included.

This Rodgers arse licking is making me nauseous. Hes an ex Liverpool manager and a insufferable bellend to boot. Who the feck commissions a massive painting of themselves and hangs it in their house? Unless your one of the Kardashians or 17 century royalty thats completely unacceptable. Absolutely disgusting

Jesus, this is strong

 

[Forevergiggs1]

People always put far too much stock into what managers say publicly. How many times, really, do we ever see a manager come out and criticise his own club while he is still working there? It's a death wish, and it's just bad management. No good can come from it.

You ask what I find easiest to believe in that situation? I think he had a budget and that budget didn't stretch to another forward after he'd gotten his higher priority positions sorted. What else is he supposed to say in that instance? We scrutinise his comments because we are hungry for inside information, but we won't learn anything because they are media trained precisely so that they dont give much away. Not just Ole. All managers.

Let's not forget that he also said he'd rather have holes than arseholes, and it's not much of a stretch to conclude that Lukaku and Sanchez were disruptive influences. Their own comments since pretty much confirm it. Getting rid of them and leaving himself short was a selfless decision. Better for the club than it was for him. We should applaud that. Its his short term pain for the clubs long term gain.

People still seem to think the club stumbled upon Ole. I dont. They were looking for a certain type of manager, and Ole ticked a lot of those boxes. He wouldn't have been told "this is what we want". He would have been asked "what will you do?", and he was hired, above all of the other possibilities that we could have chosen, because his vision aligned with what the club were looking for, and he is still here because he is executing that vision. If there was any real friction there they would have had him report into Murtaugh. The fact that they are structured as equals speaks volumes.

Of course I don't expect Ole to come out and criticise the club the way Mourinho did but for me there are ways of putting all the responsibilities on someones shoulders the way Ole has and taking away the blame from the people who make the decisions. That's just common sense and he just keeps ramping the pressure onto himself by making it sound like he's sole responsible. Other comments he's made are, no one comes in or out of the door without my say so. Like WTF?

He's given the actual ones responsible a complete get out of jail free card when it inevitably goes tits up. There's a lot of argument here about whether it was Ed or Ole who signed VDB with the general consensus being it was Ed but since Ole has categorically said he's responsible then any fallout goes on his shoulders. The same is going to happen in the summer if we have a bad transfer window. Like I asked before. If this does happen and Ole comes out and says we've had a great window are you still going to believe he's not in Eds pocket because it will be Ole that suffers the consequences if results start to fall away and not the actual person responsible.

 

[Widow]

Most fans are “simple minded” and don’t care about incremental slow progress.

'most fans'

 

[Robbie Boy]

'most fans'

You gotta love a Caf sweeping statement.

 

[Bilbo]

Of course I don't expect Ole to come out and criticise the club the way Mourinho did but for me there are ways of putting all the responsibilities on someones shoulders the way Ole has and taking away the blame from the people who make the decisions. That's just common sense and he just keeps ramping the pressure onto himself by making it sound like he's sole responsible. Other comments he's made are, no one comes in or out of the door without my say so. Like WTF?

He's given the actual ones responsible a complete get out of jail free card when it inevitably goes tits up. There's a lot of argument here about whether it was Ed or Ole who signed VDB with the general consensus being it was Ed but since Ole has categorically said he's responsible then any fallout goes on his shoulders. The same is going to happen in the summer if we have a bad transfer window. Like I asked before. If this does happen and Ole comes out and says we've had a great window are you still going to believe he's not in Eds pocket because it will be Ole that suffers the consequences if results start to fall away and not the actual person responsible.

I honestly think that you're over-thinking all of this. Ole and Woodward both want the same thing, and they are both ultimately responsible for the same thing - the health and growth of this football club.

All this talk about Ole being a deflector of criticism just doesn't make any sense. Did it stop a gang of idiots going to Woodwards home? Will they go to Oles house next time because he's taking all the criticism? Of course not. A winning team makes everybody's life easier, and a losing team means that everyone is there to be shot at (so to speak). Oles failure will be Woodwards failure too.

You're over-thinking the Donny situation as well IMO. It's just a signing that hasn't (yet) worked out. It's not the end of times, and I'm sure Ole wanted him here as much as anyone. It looked a great signing for a great price, but nothing is guaranteed. There is no conspiracy here. No reason to believe a player has been forced on a manager.

With regards to this summer window, let's wait and see what happens. We have the perfect excuse to lay low and spend next to nothing if the Glazers really are penny pinchers, or hooefully we can and will exploit the biggest buyers market we've ever seen in football. We'll see. If its the former then I would expect Ole to give out the sort of public message that any figurehead of a large corporation is paid to do. He'll rant behind closed doors and avoid airing his dirty laundry in public. If that is interpreted as being in Eds pocket by some then so be it. I certainly don't see it that way.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I have to say, the talk of Ole being a 'minion' for Ed is ludicrous. I would much rather the way Ole handles things, than have another scenario like under Jose when everything was toxic.

I have doubts about Ole, but I certainly appreciate the sense of togetherness and camaraderie that he has created. I'm sure behind closed doors he has his grievances over certain matters - but keeping them behind closed doors is simply the right thing to do. Jose tried the tactic of airing his dirty laundry in public, and look where it got him. It was honestly the worst I've felt about the club post Fergie - the whole thing was a toxic shit-show.

As I said, I have my doubts about him but some of things he's critisised for is crazy.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I was never bothered about having two ball playing centerhalves. Two is great, you always want your players to be as varied as possible, but one is OK. And we could have played with what we had in 2019/20 and regroup and rethink who to bring. Again - I thought getting Maguire was a job-saving exercise for Solskjaer. And I wouldn't say our distribution from the back is a big plus right now anyway.

The first things I want from a centerhalf are defensive related. I can also give him time to improve aspects if he's young enough, but pace isn't something that's going to appear.

Overall I'd prefer Maguire to Smalling, but not for 80m or anything near that. For that sort of money, you need to buy players who are really top class and that you can get to the highest level with. Being an improvement over what we had - which Maguire is - was not enough. It was a very expensive short term solution that creates a long term problem.



He didn't actually win the CL with Bayern as they lost the final, but yeah, they had a good season in 2009/10. And then they collapsed and he was sacked before the following season ended. I wasn't that impressed with the World Cup. It was a good achievement, but after the first two matches, their play was boring and lacked any sort of creativity... Kind of like LVG's United...

Anyhow, he was always a hit-and-miss manager. When it worked it was great, when it didn't it was terrible. United just wasn't a hit for him.



I don't give a damn about a manager's trophy cabinet. The problem indeed was that it was like we signed managers based on their trophy list on Wikipedia. I'd like for us to be clever and progressive enough to look at managers in Europe and see their work, the kind of football they play, how they improve players, etc, rather than what trophies they have won. With the gaps between the top clubs and the rest, it's so difficult for anyone who isn't part of a very select group to win trophies. But some of them just need a platform. We should be looking at those.

I'll ask you again: When's the last time Maguire's so called lack of pace cost us?

If you think Ole got Maguire "to save his own ass" you clearly agree Maguire was a significant upgrade, no? And like I said, he was overpriced but the price we pay isn't solely his responsility. Neither is the budget he gets allocated, btw.

I think Maguires distribution is good, regardless of his recent blunder. He's not Beckenbauer, but a midfield of Fred and McTominay doesn't make it easy. Puyol wasn't a maestro, but that rarely mattered with the midfielders he could pass into.

Yeah, LVG implodes after a few years wherever he goes. We fired him at the right time.

Hit-and-miss? 'cmon man
His only miss as a manager was not qualifying with Holland in the early aughts. Guy was a serial winner everywhere else. Wiki/google it.

Trust me there was no way to play "good football" with that 2014 WC squad. Half of that squad is in mid-table eredivisie today.

I agree with how you think we should approach managerial appointments.

 

[Amir]

I'll ask you again: When's the last time Maguire's so called lack of pace cost us?

I don't remember. When I was younger I used to rewatch United matches time and time again and remember tons of little things. I can probably still remember lineups from the 90s. Nowadays I don't spend the same time and barely remember goals. So no, I can't point out a particular incident, though I know there were and also that it affects the way we play as we need to compensate.

I'm not sure what the video is supposed to show, as I see Bailly doing enough to slow down the attacker and made him go right, so that Maguire can get there in time to (brilliantly) tackle him.

If you want to picture it as a non-issue, well, fine. If Maguire's pace is not a problem then it's a brilliant deal. Well done, Manchester United.

If you think Ole got Maguire "to save his own ass" you clearly agree Maguire was a significant upgrade, no? And like I said, he was overpriced but the price we pay isn't solely his responsility. Neither is the budget he gets allocated, btw.

No, I agree he was an upgrade, not a signicant upgrade, and one that solves some issues and creates others.

Bottom line is that when Solskjaer realised how much it would cost - and we knew very early it would be a lot - he could have put a stop to it. But he needed to survive in here and now.

His only miss as a manager was not qualifying with Holland in the early aughts. Guy was a serial winner everywhere else. Wiki/google it.

It's funny, really, as you ask me to do what United might have done to hire him: Wiki it

I remember LVGs career very well. Brilliant at Ajax, good (but not great) first tenure at Barcelona, disaster in his first stint as Netherlands coach, quick sacking after returning to Barcelona, working magic with AZ, great first season with Bayern, terrible second season...

He was a special manager, but there were times in which it was just not going to work.

Trust me there was no way to play "good football" with that 2014 WC squad. Half of that squad is in mid-table eredivisie today.

How about playing decent football and not going through 240 minutes against Costa Rica and Argentina without scoring? The moment the Netherlands got out of that group - including the Mexico game - it was shit on stick stuff.

 

[Tarrou]

Leichester have a genuinely good squad though and have won the league much more recently than several other "big clubs", us included.

This Rodgers arse licking is making me nauseous. Hes an ex Liverpool manager and a insufferable bellend to boot. Who the feck commissions a massive painting of themselves and hangs it in their house? Unless your one of the Kardashians or 17 century royalty thats completely unacceptable. Absolutely disgusting

I don't like him either but this isn't true

It was a gift from a charity he helped at Swansea

 

[Cast5]

Well that's the thing, you're actively contributing to the extremist views and feeding into it. When it then starts to seep into other threads it gets irritating for people who aren't obsessive about Ole. I saw you bashing Rodgers randomly in the Ole contract thread a-few minutes ago. Your post was highly disingenuous and biased. But hey, I guess you can't see how your behaviour is actively contributing to the toxicity surrounding Ole discussions.

You have an everyone is toxic and I’m not, holier than thou attitude, you say you’re not obsessed with Ole, you’ve made hundreds of posts criticising Ole with disingenuous points yourself. You’ve made more posts about Ole than I have made in total. I am not allowed to criticise managers but you’re allowed to criticise Ole, Apparently I’m contributing to toxicity and you’re not, I’m disingenuous but you’re not, you’ve brought up me bashing Rodgers the ex-Liverpool manager in another thread here’s just a few of you bashing Ole:

I don’t even need to get over it anymore, I’m totally numb to to it at this stage. As long as Ole is here, we’re going nowhere and I’ve accepted that. A-few wins here and there changes feck all when all the glaring issues remain.

I wouldn’t take notice of his posts. He thinks Lingard and Ole are awesome. The top of the top reds.

This, so much this and I think Ole is beyond terrible.

Yup, in short we're an utter shambles and Ole has absolutely no right managing us. We are going backwards under him and how people still defend him, despite the damning stats, is absolutely beyond me.

Head of recruitment? There's serious questions over Maguire, AWB and James. When he's inevitably fired, he should go like all who came before him.

From Locked threads:

At least the "but we're fifth" excuse is gone for now. But given the 'Ole in brigade' have a plethoea of excuses ready and waiting, we'll be hearing the new ones reeled out soon enough

At last. So you're agreeing we have made shitty appointments and all have recklessly spent money with no plan in place. Ole is no different.

We have no system and don't play like a team after Ole has been here nearly 2 years. He's a poor coach.

I was merely talking purely about the quality of football. There's no question that LvG was far more successful here than anything Ole has done.

Ah it's all about fatigue but it only affects us and not the opposition. Get with the programme/list of excuses for top reds

I see you on every thread mentioning Ole acting as if you’re the RedCafe Police. You’re heavily biased against Ole, you hide that with an occasional positive post, you’ve made plenty of disingenuous posts about the man and there’s many more. You frame it as you criticising OleIn vs OleOut for being toxic when the vast majority of your more recent posts are having a go at people who rate Ole more often than not. I could post pages of your “toxic” posts if you’d like. You’re a fraud who acts like he has a balanced view, when in reality you don’t at all. Go through my posts, they all back Ole. You’re as Ole Out as I am Ole in and you’re just as biased as everyone you constantly criticise.

 

[MinGin]

If a manager is not a complete moron, he knows that money as limited and that what he spends on one player will limit him in other deals. So yes, I assume that the board will let him know the limits and use his input and how that money is spent.

Also, you should consider why our buying cost is always larger than other club in post SAF era.

Yes, Ole must know the limitation of the money he can spend, but if.
1) would it be all negotiated players overpriced, and he picked the one who feel better in quality-price ratio?
2) would our negotiator cannot be multi-tasking? Ole had only one/two choice or no time to pick another one in that position before the window closed
3) would Ole listed some low reputation players but Ed paid no attention to them that to make the negotiation turn badly?

Will you take those overpriced players base on above situation when you know you will be fired if you cannot meet the target?

Well, we do not know what is the conversation between the CEO, negotiator and him, the above is a assumption but we saw that it happened concurrent for 3 consecutive managers. If Mata was counted as overpriced, it happened in 4 consecutive managers as well.

 

[MinGin]

I think with Rodgers we'd easily win a cup or two and come a lot closer to winning the league. That itself is huge progress. I think Ole has reached his ceiling with us and we aren't progressing any further. We could throw obscene amounts of money at players (doubtful with current ownership) and he might edge towards some silverware, but why bother if you can make improvements with simply a better coach. This club shouldn't be a training scheme for club legends, its that sentimentality that will end up costing us.

It will be another counter attack team that the play style will be refused in here. Also, will Rodgers able to manage a big club? In Liverpool era, it seems he lost his way even he has Gerrard & Suárez in that team.
And, if you give aged Vardy (Goal Conversation Ratio: 24%, Big chances created: 8) to Ole instead of poor form Martial (Goal Conversation Ratio: 12%, Big chances created: 4), we would also be flying in the sky.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You did, when you took Yaya Toure's example.

I didn't, you have problem with your reading mate. Tell me exactly what I said on Yaya Toure's example then.

Haha mate its always the same with you, you just keep going and going and going, I gave my reasons as I said I dont think its worth discussing this since for me its clear. Also its an hypotetical question so lets leave it there, you think Ole due to the players we has done better than what Pep could/would, I think Pep being a better manager could/would have done a better job.

Your reason is only for who's the better manager to build a team to win trophies but that's not what we are talking about so It's invalid to the discussion about who can do better with this current squad now without any additional player. Therefore, it's important to discuss about which manager & style suit more to our current squad/players. And you don't want to discuss it because you know it doesn't suit your own narrative.

 

[MinGin]

If other options did not exist by the time we signed Maguire, then we had another option: Sign no one. If Spending tons on a centerhalf who is good but has issues causes long term problems because we'll always have to compensate for his weaknesses, then maybe you should think long term, take a few more months and look at other options.

My belief is such a thing was never going to happen because we were obviousy weak defensively and Solskjaer was desperate to improve that, if only because he knew it might cost him his job. That deal was not brilliant for United and, as I've said, may be an issue going forward. But it helped perserve the manager.

You may say that it emphasize the problem of having a manager who is not secure in his position and might be making deals that are right for him and less right for the club. Which is probably why there is a lot of merit in a structure that doesn't give the manager all the power - by using a DOF or transfer commitee.

Sign no one, then, who should we used to play regularly? Lindelof and Smalling with dropped form De Gea? Lindelof and "Hope injury-free" Bailly ?
And how about when another overpriced players are negotiated in the next transfer window? still sign no one until the negotiator become good at negotiation?

Yes, he is slow but he is hardly got past by opposite, so "slow" is not the mainly weaknesses point to the team. Having a never off the line GK to cause our slow CBs need to cover more area and be attacked by special targeting corners/crossing are the weaknesses point for us when we played a high line. If you compare the stats between Maguire, Dias and Van Dijk (19/20 ver), is he far lower than others who is top CB in premier league?

Premier League	Maguire at 20/21 @ 2610mins played	Dias at 20/21 @ 2393mins played	Van Dijk at 19/20 @ 3420mins played
Tackles A/W (%) Per 90 mins	0.8/0.4 (50%)	0.8/0.5 (62.5%)	0.6/0.3 (50%)
Aerials A/W (%) Per 90 mins	5.3/3.9 (73.6%)	3.1/2.0 (64.5%)	6.2/4.8 (77.4%)
Duels A/W (%) Per 90 mins	9.1/5.9 (64.8%)	5.8/3.6 (62.1%)	8.1/6.1 (75%)
Clearances Per 90 mins	3.7	2.7	4.2
Possesion Lost Per 90 mins	9.5	6.5	9.6
Tounches Per 90 mins	78.1	95.0	94.4
Interception Per 90 mins	1.7	1.2	0.9
Recoveries Per 90 mins	5.9	4.4	5.7
Last Man Tackles Per 90 mins	0	0	2.0
Passing Per 90 mins	66.5 (87%)	86.3 (93%)	84.8 (89%)
Final Third Passing Per 90 mins	11.1	8.1	14.0
Long Ball Passing Per 90 mins	7.6	5.6	9.0
Goals	2	1	5
Assists	1	0	1
Big Chances Created	0	0	2
Completed Dribbles Per 90 mins	0.2	0.0	0.1
Source: https://www.footballcritic.com/harry-maguire/profile/4452#Decisive
Press A/W (%)	152/55 (36.2)	133/46 (34.6%) 146/54 (36.9%)	26/18 (69%) 133/46 (34.6%)
Press in Def 3rd	90	84 70	13 84
Press in Mid 3rd	57	37 60	11 37
Press in Att 3rd	5	12 16	2 12
Got Dribbled Past	11	12	12
Source: https://fbref.com/en/players/d8931174/dom_lg/Harry-Maguire-Domestic-League-Stats

Edit, Apologize that Stats of Press were wrong input, updated as above.

 

[Amir]

Yes, Ole must know the limitation of the money he can spend, but if.
1) would it be all negotiated players overpriced, and he picked the one who feel better in quality-price ratio?
2) would our negotiator cannot be multi-tasking? Ole had only one/two choice or no time to pick another one in that position before the window closed
3) would Ole listed some low reputation players but Ed paid no attention to them that to make the negotiation turn badly?

Will you take those overpriced players base on above situation when you know you will be fired if you cannot meet the target?

Well, we do not know what is the conversation between the CEO, negotiator and him, the above is a assumption but we saw that it happened concurrent for 3 consecutive managers. If Mata was counted as overpriced, it happened in 4 consecutive managers as well.

Of course a manager will take the overpriced players if it keeps him in the job. But isn't that kind of the problem here? People talked about Mourinho getting players that served him and not neccesarily the future of Manchester United. Solskjaer was supposed to be the opposite of that, focused on United and not himself.

At the end of the day, I think it was a bad choice, made far worse because of the huge amount of money paid. And if Solskjaer just thought he was a great player and right for him, than that doesn't colour it better due to his limitations.

Well, we do not know what is the conversation between the CEO, negotiator and him, the above is a assumption but we saw that it happened concurrent for 3 consecutive managers. If Mata was counted as overpriced, it happened in 4 consecutive managers as well.

We are a big club with a lot of money and a lot of desperation. Of course we are going to pay more. The solution is not just about negotiating or whatever the CEO, negotiator and manager discuss. It's about being better overall and not reaching the negotiation table from such a weak position. With Maguire, for instance, we were as weak as it gets - Our defense was an issue and everyone knew we were desperate for a CB.

Sign no one, then, who should we used to play regularly? Lindelof and Smalling with dropped form De Gea? Lindelof and "Hope injury-free" Bailly ?

I don't remember De Gea being a big issue in the summer of 2019. And yes, I would have been happy to play another year with those guys rather than invest 80m in Maguire and handicap myself long term.

And how about when another overpriced players are negotiated in the next transfer window? still sign no one until the negotiator become good at negotiation?

I don't mind paying over the odds. I mind paying over the odds for players who will not be worth it long term and will prove an issue rather than a solution (or force us to look for another CB who will "complete" them). I'm OK with paying 80m for a CB or overpaying for a CB - if he's worth it. Maguire was an easy, lazy choice.. We should have done more homework and look for a better solution. And if he cost tons and was overpriced - so be it.

 

[AjaxCunian]

We also had injuries but it didn't stop us beating West Ham and Milan in the space of 4 days.

Leicester was a bridge too far for a patched up squad and I honestly would have preferred going out to Milan and beating Leicester both before and after the facts, but injuries aren't really an excuse when we've had similar issues.

The point was never that you can't win whilst you have injuries, but injuries are much easier for a club of United's size to absorb. Btw, Milan was having an injury crisis of themselves but that's just an aside.

Phil Jones earns more than most Leicester's starting XI. That argument really doesn't hold up IMO.

So you take the most extreme case and therefore it doesn't hold? Almost all players that United buys, are bought with the intent to be a starter or challenge for a first XI place, the same goes for most contract renewals. Bar Daniel James, Diallo, Pellistri.. even a lot of our B options like Telles, Bailly, Van de Beek, Henderson, Fred, Lingard, Cavani/Martial, their contracts/ transfer fees are clearly worthy of someone that could challenge for the first team. This is something, clubs like Leicester can't do, because clearly, they have to operate with a complete different budget compared to United. Surely, it isn't true that twice as expensive is twice as good, but let's not act as if it's not a factor at all.

 

[Bobcat]

Sign no one, then, who should we used to play regularly? Lindelof and Smalling with dropped form De Gea? Lindelof and "Hope injury-free" Bailly ?
And how about when another overpriced players are negotiated in the next transfer window? still sign no one until the negotiator become good at negotiation?

Yes, he is slow but he is hardly got past by opposite, so "slow" is not the mainly weaknesses point to the team. Having a never off the line GK to cause our slow CBs need to cover more area and be attacked by special targeting corners/crossing are the weaknesses point for us when we played a high line. If you compare the stats between Maguire, Dias and Van Dijk (19/20 ver), is he far lower than others who is top CB in premier league?

Premier League	Maguire at 20/21 @ 2610mins played	Dias at 20/21 @ 2393mins played	Van Dijk at 19/20 @ 3420mins played
Tackles A/W (%) Per 90 mins	0.8/0.4 (50%)	0.8/0.5 (62.5%)	0.6/0.3 (50%)
Aerials A/W (%) Per 90 mins	5.3/3.9 (73.6%)	3.1/2.0 (64.5%)	6.2/4.8 (77.4%)
Duels A/W (%) Per 90 mins	9.1/5.9 (64.8%)	5.8/3.6 (62.1%)	8.1/6.1 (75%)
Clearances Per 90 mins	3.7	2.7	4.2
Possesion Lost Per 90 mins	9.5	6.5	9.6
Tounches Per 90 mins	78.1	95.0	94.4
Interception Per 90 mins	1.7	1.2	0.9
Recoveries Per 90 mins	5.9	4.4	5.7
Last Man Tackles Per 90 mins	0	0	2.0
Passing Per 90 mins	66.5 (87%)	86.3 (93%)	84.8 (89%)
Final Third Passing Per 90 mins	11.1	8.1	14.0
Long Ball Passing Per 90 mins	7.6	5.6	9.0
Goals	2	1	5
Assists	1	0	1
Big Chances Created	0	0	2
Completed Dribbles Per 90 mins	0.2	0.0	0.1
Source: https://www.footballcritic.com/harry-maguire/profile/4452#Decisive
Press A/W (%)	152/55 (36.2)	133/46 (34.6%)	26/18 (69%)
Press in Def 3rd	90	84	13
Press in Mid 3rd	57	37	11
Press in Att 3rd	5	12	2
Got Dribbled Past	11	12	12
Source: https://fbref.com/en/players/d8931174/dom_lg/Harry-Maguire-Domestic-League-Stats

Terrific post.

I have no idea why, but a pretty sizable portion of United fans somehow have convinced themselves that Maguire is shite, but all his key stats prove hes up there with the top CB's in the league.

Also (knock on wood), just the fact that hes fit and available all the time is such a massive upgrade on the likes of Jones and Baily who always are just a gust of wind away from being sidelined for months.

Yes, he cost too much, but its not like hes responsible for his price tag