Jarrod Bowen under investigation for racist tweet

[Mount's Goatieson]

I can certify that it's nonsensical. People in Africa know exactly what that terms means, it has a significance, a racist significance. In fact one of my cousins once got clattered by my uncle for using it, it was in Africa.

I know I'm speaking in general terms here so I understand where you are coming from. I can make several anecdotes to make my point but the bottom line is, that word itself, regardless of it's meaning, does not hold as much signifance to Africans as it does to black westerners. It has it's roots in American slavery and although yes the slaves were taken from Africa, most of us here have no direct experience with it's ramifications, certainly not as much as the descendants of those taken.
So although the n word might mean a whole lot more to a black American, to someone like me it's just an insult to black people, and we have a whole lot of them for ‘white people’ too.

 

[JPRouve]

I know I'm speaking in general terms here so I understand where you are coming from. I can make several anecdotes to make my point but the bottom line is, that word itself, regardless of it's meaning, does not hold as much signifance to Africans as it does to black westerners. It has it's roots in American slavery and although yes the slaves were taken from Africa, most of us here have no direct experience with it's ramifications, certainly not as much as the descendants of those taken.
So although the n word might mean a whole lot more to a black American, to someone like me it's just an insult to black people, and we have a whole lot of them for ‘white people’ too.

Wait, so you are saying that even for you it has a significance since it's an insult to black people, yet you acted as if it didn't had a signficance in Africa. So I'm a bit confused here about your initial point.

 

[Zaphod2319]

The thing is, no one here is advocating for Bowen to be punished. My issue here, which I’ve made clear numerous times, is you making definitive statements, speaking for black people as a whole. You may not take that particular word with malice, but I’d wager that a significant number of black people, whether in 2012 or 2021, will not have taken kindly to being greeted in that manner, regardless of intent.

Yes there are people in this thread saying he should be punished. People have said he should face a ban for his tweet. The grammar school thing I don't understand but I never went to school in the UK. If someone is insulted by Bowen using that phrase, I would hope they are equally insulted by Dave Chapelle using it in his comedy.

 

[OL29]

Yes there are people in this thread saying he should be punished. People have said he should face a ban for his tweet. The grammar school thing I don't understand but I never went to school in the UK. If someone is insulted by Bowen using that phrase, I would hope they are equally insulted by Dave Chapelle using it in his comedy.

If you really think that’s the same thing then I don’t think we’ll find any common ground on this topic. Please just refrain from speaking for black people in the future. Thanks.

 

[Zaphod2319]

If you really think that’s the same thing then I don’t think we’ll find any common ground on this topic. Please just refrain from speaking for black people in the future. Thanks.

You really should stop with that. I am speaking about people in general. Bowen is using the same pop cultural phrase that Chapelle is, I guess you and I are not going to agree about this topic.

 

[big rons sovereign]

If you really think that’s the same thing then I don’t think we’ll find any common ground on this topic. Please just refrain from speaking for black people in the future. Thanks.

Wait, it's only offensive when it suits?
If it's offensive it's offensive and nobody should be using it regardless.

 

[Sandikan]

You really should stop with that. I am speaking about people in general. Bowen is using the same pop cultural phrase that Chapelle is, I guess you and I are not going to agree about this topic.

Wait, it's only offensive when it suits?
If it's offensive it's offensive and nobody should be using it regardless.

Out of interest, are you lads the type who kept saying "all lives matter" whenever Black lives matter was mentioned?

 

[Fridge chutney]

It was wrong as a 15 year old white person to say/write the word back in 2012. When I was 15, in the mid 2000s, I knew it was racist and wrong of me to use the word or variations of the word. To claim that saying the word as a non black person was more acceptable at any point in the 2000s is a bit revisionist, in my opinion.

Maybe it was different in the UK (but sounds like it probably was not).

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Wait, it's only offensive when it suits?
If it's offensive it's offensive and nobody should be using it regardless.

Because white slave owners used it to refer to their slaves. When black people use it in comedy or in rap it’s basically just meaning “bro” they’ve reclaimed the word.

I dated a mixed race girl (black/white) when I was in my early 20s. She told me only white people can’t say the N word, and had no issues if other non-black races used it. Her Chinese mate would use it right in front of her rapping over songs & she wouldn’t give a shit. That’s my only experience anyway.

Just don’t say it. It’s one word init, not the end of the world.

 

[OL29]

Wait, it's only offensive when it suits?
If it's offensive it's offensive and nobody should be using it regardless.

I’m not getting into this debate. If you want to use the term, feel free to use it, just don’t be surprised when your forced to face the consequences.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Out of interest, are you lads the type who kept saying "all lives matter" whenever Black lives matter was mentioned?

I make a post mentioning my brother and sister are black and you come out with this shit.
You can shove that right up your arse pal.

 

[mu4c_20le]

It was wrong as a 15 year old white person to say/write the word back in 2012. When I was 15, in the mid 2000s, I knew it was racist and wrong of me to use the word or variations of the word. To claim that saying the word as a non black person was more acceptable at any point in the 2000s is a bit revisionist, in my opinion.

Maybe it was different in the UK (but sounds like it probably was not).

Teenagers aren't exactly known for doing what they're told, often times it's the exact opposite. So when you've got a clearly bad word that also has other connotations other than a racial slur, and is often used in pop culture and media, that makes it attractive for them to throw around in a locker room setting. Even back then I don't think I've seen anyone use it nonchalently to strangers.

 

[big rons sovereign]

I’m not getting into this debate. If you want to use the term, feel free to use it, just don’t be surprised when your forced to face the consequences.

It's not what I said is it.
I'm saying it's an offensive word whatever the sense, it will always be derogatory whoever uses it. So why use it.

I'm aware it's a pointless argument. But the whole thing seems ridiculous.

 

[Sandikan]

I make a post mentioning my brother and sister are black and you come out with this shit.
You can shove that right up your arse pal.

My apologies chief, I'd misread what you were saying as being the same as the other guy i'd quoted.
And I was only being light hearted too

 

[Theo Cherry]

Laugh out loud, Herefordshire's finest!

 

[big rons sovereign]

My apologies chief, I'd misread what you were saying as being the same as the other guy i'd quoted.
And I was only being light hearted too

Overreaction on my part man. I know I shouldn't get involved in this stuff, Its nigh on impossible to put a pov into text.

 

[Sandikan]

Overreaction on my part man. I know I shouldn't get involved in this stuff, Its nigh on impossible to put a pov into text.

Doesn't help with nobbers like me cruising through trying to be funny

 

[afrocentricity]

Nowhere in my post did I say they were the reason for it's use or it's existence. I simply suggested that it might help greatly in the fight against racism if they themselves stopped using it so much. They can put in that effort to make that offensive word and others die. There is only one race who are openly saying such words in public space now and that's Western Blacks.

 

[Stacks]

That food is really, really dumb.

#Stacksplease.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I dont know why people post shit like this on socials media and yes, it's dumb but he was a teenager... teenager's do dumb shit.

I can't imagine how many white teenagers said the N word whilst rapping along with some hiphop tune.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I dont know why people post shit like this on socials media and yes, it's dumb but he was a teenager... teenager's do dumb shit.

I can't imagine how many white teenagers said the N word whilst rapping along with some hiphop tune.

No doubt loads but I don’t think loads posted the words on social media.

The use of the N word in rap /hip hop lyrics has been done to death and is pretty irrelevant to the Bowen debate. I’m finding it’s often used by mainly white people to justify the use of racist language. There’s so many things wrong with it

 

[afrocentricity]

Such a dumb arguement anyway. 'we all used to do it..'

Doubt you were doing it nonchalantly in front of black people, or people you didn't know...... Which is what you're doing when you're posting shit on social media. In 2021 or 2012...

 

[Dirty Schwein]

No doubt loads but I don’t think loads posted the words on social media.

The use of the N word in rap /hip hop lyrics has been done to death and is pretty irrelevant to the Bowen debate. I’m finding it’s often used by mainly white people to justify the use of racist language. There’s so many things wrong with it

I get your point, but what I'm trying to say is he was a dumb teenager, he doesn't deserved to now get punished for something stupid he said back then. The N word in hiphop was an example I used as a comparison to this. It's like doing that in public. But fair enough if that's a bad example. My point still stands, he said something dumb when he was a teenager. Teenagers do dumb shit. It doesn't make him a racist.

I'm not white by the way.

 

[calodo2003]

Sports announcers were fired in the 1980s & 2000s for casually saying things like...

‘The black is a better athlete to begin with, because he's been bred to be that way. Because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back. And they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. And he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War, when, during the slave trading, the big, the owner, the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have uh big black kid, see. That's where it all started! Jimmy the Greek

‘"...he [Desailly] is what is known in some schools as a fecking lazy, thick n*gg*r.’ Atkinson

Let’s not pretend such casual racism was acceptable. Ever.

 

[AgentSmith]

Sports announcers were fired in the 1980s & 2000s for casually saying things like...

‘The black is a better athlete to begin with, because he's been bred to be that way. Because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back. And they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. And he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War, when, during the slave trading, the big, the owner, the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have uh big black kid, see. That's where it all started!

‘"...he [Desailly] is what is known in some schools as a fecking lazy, thick n*gg*r.’

Let’s not pretend such casual racism was acceptable. Ever.

Do those examples constitute casual racism..?

 

[horsechoker]

Sports announcers were fired in the 1980s & 2000s for casually saying things like...

‘The black is a better athlete to begin with, because he's been bred to be that way. Because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back. And they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. And he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War, when, during the slave trading, the big, the owner, the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have uh big black kid, see. That's where it all started!

‘"...he [Desailly] is what is known in some schools as a fecking lazy, thick n*gg*r.’

Let’s not pretend such casual racism was acceptable. Ever.

This is from 1990, I don't think he was fired for using the n-word on TV.

 

[Oldyella]

Do those examples constitute casual racism..?

The Atkinson was wasn't it? He basically said it off camera to his colleagues and assumed it was fine? Its only because Mics picked it up that anything was done about it. When was it? Early 2000s and he thought that was an ok thing to say.

 

[calodo2003]

Do those examples constitute casual racism..?

Casual in the sense that these lines were thrown out without thought or concern. Jimmy the Greek said the first quote in a casual, lunchtime TV interview in a very cozy setting, it was just another answer in line with many other questions. Atkinson said his piece in a casual conversation with his co-host when he thought the mic was off.

Then there’s this in 1987 (Campanis was the GM of the Dodgers at the time of idiocy)...


So, even ‘casual,’ almost flippant racism has been verboten for some time.

 

[AgentSmith]

The Atkinson was wasn't it? He basically said it off camera to his colleagues and assumed it was fine? Its only because Mics picked it up that anything was done about it. When was it? Early 2000s and he thought that was an ok thing to say.

I’ve no idea where the quotes are from or who they’re from tbf.

I just thought they were both overtly racist despite the speaker’s casually stating them. But I see that was actually the point that @calodo2003 was making so fair enough.

 

[calodo2003]

This is from 1990, I don't think he was fired for using the n-word on TV.

Never seen this before, sounds a bit like...


Seems like each might be a conflation of a couple of terms pronounced horribly wrong (the MSNBC anchor profusely apologized & stated that she thought of ‘Knicks’ [for some reason] & ‘Lakers’ & horribly misspoke)? Did Hurst offer any explanation?

These instances just further go to eviscerate the silly ‘it was acceptable’ to use the N word argument in here.

 

[calodo2003]

I’ve no idea where the quotes are from or who they’re from tbf.

I just thought they were both overtly racist despite the speaker’s casually stating them. But I see that was actually the point that @calodo2003 was making so fair enough.

Absolutely. The point is that at no time was ‘casual racism’ / the ‘casual use of racial epithets’ have ever been acceptable.

I also guffaw at the prospect of there being such a thing as ‘casual racism.’ That’s like saying there’s ‘casual sexism’ or ‘casual xenophobia.’ It’s either racist or it’s not. It may be presented in a casual way, but the -ism is still there.

 

[horsechoker]

Never seen this before, sounds a bit like...


Seems like each might be a conflation of a couple of terms pronounced horribly wrong (the MSNBC anchor profusely apologized & stated that she thought of ‘Knicks’ [for some reason] & ‘Lakers’ & horribly misspoke)? Did Hurst offer any explanation?

These instances just further go to eviscerate the silly ‘it was acceptable’ to use the N word argument in here.

No he used the n word as it is a phrase

Link to wiki

 

[Eli Zee]

All the shit I said in high school was worse... why is this even news.

 

[calodo2003]

No he used the n word as it is a phrase

Link to wiki

I couldn’t make out what he said in total, I thought he was stumbling for words.

I had forgotten that quote even existed. What was the result for this idiot?

 

[Grinner]

This is from 1990, I don't think he was fired for using the n-word on TV.

Never seen this before. That's astounding really, saying it right in front of Crooks. In 1990 people knew that this was not at all acceptable so god knows why he threw it out there.

 

[calodo2003]

Didn’t even realize that was Crooks, so baby-faced back yonder.

 

[duffer]

I had forgotten that quote even existed. What was the result for this idiot?

Nothing.

There was no Twitter back then obviously and also no rewinding of live TV so although I bet a few people at the time thought "huh, what did he just say" but they couldn't check.

You'd have to hand write a letter of complaint back then.

 

[Raoul]

Casual in the sense that these lines were thrown out without thought or concern. Jimmy the Greek said the first quote in a casual, lunchtime TV interview in a very cozy setting, it was just another answer in line with many other questions. Atkinson said his piece in a casual conversation with his co-host when he thought the mic was off.

Then there’s this in 1987 (Campanis was the GM of the Dodgers at the time of idiocy)...


So, even ‘casual,’ almost flippant racism has been verboten for some time.

I believe Campanis was sacked after this wasn't he ?

 

[calodo2003]

Nothing.

There was no Twitter back then obviously and also no rewinding of live TV so although I bet a few people at the time thought "huh, what did he just say", they couldn't check.

You'd have to hand write a letter of complaint back then.

It wasn’t played back via a recording? The Campanis & Jimmy the Greek shit over here was recorded live, but it was the resultant uproar the following days due to replaying the clip is what rightfully doomed them. No media replayed this after the fact to any degree? That’s astounding.

 

[calodo2003]

I believe Campanis was sacked after this wasn't he ?

Within days. Like JtG. This was another gem from the same interview with Ol’ Jimmy...


No overt use of an epithet in either, but racist nonetheless.