'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

ray24

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And? Does a title only count if you won it against Pep? Do Ferguson's titles not count because he didn't win them against Pep?

How long after Pep leaves will titles start counting for something again? Will the title be worth winning 5 years after he's left or are they still illegitimate? What about 10 years?
The value of every title is different. Madrid's title win against peak Pep Barca is worth more than last season title against a depleted Barca.

A club that wishes to be the best must have the courage to challenge other team at their peak. Only bad winners would wish to win titles when everyone else is weak.

Don't you guys mock Bayern and PSG for winning meaningless titles in a one team league?

I assume you’re talking about the Wenger of 15-20 years ago, because modern day Wenger signed the likes of Elneny, Xhaka, Denilson, Jenkinson, & Sanogo, amongst others. He’s the last person I’d trust with money.
Wenger in his final few years is getting bad with his signings. But give him UTD's resources and he will be able to sign much better players because he don't need to take as much of a risk on average players.
 

Marwood

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We’re realistic. We don’t have Sir Alex anymore. How are we going to surpass them with Ole & the Glazers? This isn’t Arsenal under Wenger or Chelsea under Jose, the gap is much bigger & we don’t have the facilities to close it right now. They have a massive financial advantage over everyone & the best coach in the world. We need significant investment & a much better manager to overtake them. Neither of those are realistic right now.

Ole & the Glazers are going nowhere, so we have to hope they feck up their next appointment once Pep’s gone.
They'd have to really mess it up.

City were getting really close with Hughes in charge. Mancini and Pellegrini took them past us.

It's not Pep as such, it's huge amounts of money that's been well spent by him and previous managers.

The new guy would have to be LvG level horrible to not continue winning leagues.

He might even do better. This is Pep's first champs league semi for City? No final as yet. If anything I'd say that's an underachievement.
 

Dominos

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The value of every title is different. Madrid's title win against peak Pep Barca is worth more than last season title against a depleted Barca.

A club that wishes to be the best must have the courage to challenge other team at their peak. Only bad winners would wish to win titles when everyone else is weak.

Don't you guys mock Bayern and PSG for winning meaningless titles in a one team league?
The value of every title may be different, but every title has enough value for it to not really matter. Do you think Leicester give a shit that City were poor the year they won it? The idea that United could win the title against Klopp, Tuchel and City's new manager and it not be a valuable title is just ludicrous.

Every title relies on your opponents dropping enough points to allow you to win the league. You need to hit 112 points to guarantee a title, otherwise you're leaving it in the hands of your opponents losing games of which you have no control over. If City get 10 points less next season than they get this season, that's better for us, and I'm not going to refuse to celebrate a league title win just because City didn't have their best ever season.

By your logic every title win post 2013 should be discredited because we've been shit since Ferguson left, and no one should be proud of winning a title when United are weak.
 

MO_Football92

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I assume you’re talking about the Wenger of 15-20 years ago, because modern day Wenger signed the likes of Elneny, Xhaka, Denilson, Jenkinson, & Sanogo, amongst others. He’s the last person I’d trust with money.
Wenger was one of, if not the greatest managers of all time at sourcing great players.
 

RedDevilzFox

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City will inevitably be back to level with others once Pep has had enough, which part of me feels would be if he wins CL with them. Not much more left to be done then.
 

RedDevilzFox

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Wenger was one of, if not the greatest managers of all time at sourcing great players.
Wenger was a great manager once, but you have to think of him that way for more than success. His success with arsenal was rather limited. 3 PL titles in 19 years and no CL.
 

ray24

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The value of every title may be different, but every title has enough value for it to not really matter. Do you think Leicester give a shit that City were poor the year they won it? The idea that United could win the title against Klopp, Tuchel and City's new manager and it not be a valuable title is just ludicrous.
I give credit to Leicester for winning it as a recently promoted team, but I also say they had one of the easiest run-in to win the league when everyone else around them was poor.

Every title relies on your opponents dropping enough points to allow you to win the league. You need to hit 112 points to guarantee a title, otherwise you're leaving it in the hands of your opponents losing games of which you have no control over. If City get 10 points less next season than they get this season, that's better for us, and I'm not going to refuse to celebrate a league title win just because City didn't have their best ever season.

By your logic every title win post 2013 should be discredited because we've been shit since Ferguson left, and no one should be proud of winning a title when United are weak.
You make your own victory by winning as much points as possible, rather than hoping your opponents will drop points. This is why City reached the 100 points and Liverpool won their league by 99 points. A team that beat Man City with a very low points, say in the low 80s is not an impressive title winning team. It's just a team that is the best of the worst.

Utd being weak does take away the glamour of winning the PL. But the main aim of any challenging team is to beat the best team in the league while they are at their best.

A losing mentality of hoping your opponent becomes weak enough that you can win the title easily is not a winning team imo. It's just a lucky team.
 

RedDevilzFox

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I give credit to Leicester for winning it as a recently promoted team, but I also say they had one of the easiest run-in to win the league when everyone else around them was poor.



You make your own victory by winning as much points as possible, rather than hoping your opponents will drop points. This is why City reached the 100 points and Liverpool won their league by 99 points. A team that beat Man City with a very low points, say in the low 80s is not an impressive title winning team. It's just a team that is the best of the worst.

Utd being weak does take away the glamour of winning the PL. But the main aim of any challenging team is to beat the best team in the league while they are at their best.

A losing mentality of hoping your opponent becomes weak enough that you can win the title easily is not a winning team imo. It's just a lucky team.
I disagree.

A team winning a title with low 80s could be indicative of a really strong and competitive league as well. Where everyone is losing points to everyone. A team winning with 100 points could just as well be indicative of 1 team outspending others where others are rather poor.

You can twist stats to look however you want them to look. Bottom line is this, a team that wins a league over 38 games, has earned it.
 

NasirTimothy

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Let me ask you this though, out of curiosity... What do you think is the reason why Pep is regarded by all the big clubs as a great coach and why do they all want him if he's not all that great as you're claiming?
The answer to this question is pretty simple, but haters gonna hate.....
 

sourdough satellite

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I give credit to Leicester for winning it as a recently promoted team, but I also say they had one of the easiest run-in to win the league when everyone else around them was poor.



You make your own victory by winning as much points as possible, rather than hoping your opponents will drop points. This is why City reached the 100 points and Liverpool won their league by 99 points. A team that beat Man City with a very low points, say in the low 80s is not an impressive title winning team. It's just a team that is the best of the worst.

Utd being weak does take away the glamour of winning the PL. But the main aim of any challenging team is to beat the best team in the league while they are at their best.

A losing mentality of hoping your opponent becomes weak enough that you can win the title easily is not a winning team imo. It's just a lucky team.
No, the aim is to win titles, regardless of circumstances. You can only play what's in front of you after all.
 

ray24

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No, the aim is to win titles, regardless of circumstances. You can only play what's in front of you after all.
Then you guys should forget about winning titles for the next decade or so. It's surprising to see Utd fans being so defeatist.
 

RedRonaldo

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Yeh let’s all watch Pep getting sacked after winning 3 PL titles in 4 years, a CL trophy and treble...
 

amolbhatia50k

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It's funny to see Man Utd fans wishing Pep is gone rather than hoping to beat a Pep team to the title. I guess you guys will not be real champions if you only win the title after Pep leaves Man City?

Only bad teams seek to win titles by hoping their rival team's manager is gone.
Personally don't really care that much. Would rather our level increase first before any thoughts about what our rivals are doing. But I can understand United fans wanting to see the back of Pep. He is despite what flaws he has the best manager around right now. And while City can continue to win with or without him given their absurd spending of course it gives them the edge to have a manager who is always going to be better than what we have.

And bad teams don't win titles. And a title is a title.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Pep is a great manager. No one would argue against that who is sane.

But there is no debate between him and Ferguson.

Fergie won a European trophy with Aberdeen. He won the treble. He won titles with half his players being from the youth team. Players he produced and developed. He won titles with sides that were clearly inferior to other teams in the division. He rebuilt teams without moving the earth to do so and won titles after people had written him off.

He did things that Guardiola just can’t do. He needs the money. Nothing wrong with that, of course. It’s still impressive how he sets them up, but he is not on the same level as Ferguson, and his achievements, in their billion pound context, just don’t match up.
Absolutely. Sir Alex was a title winning machine but he also had that ability to build, rebuild and develop from the ground up. He was a true manager of the football club which is why comparing the likes of him and Shankly, Busby etc to today's "coaches" is pointless given the greater responsibilities the older chaps had. To put it in context, Sir Alex achieved the impossible at Aberdeen breaking the old firm rivalry and winning a European cup, and basically re-created one of footballs elite clubs. He had to mould the culture at Manchester United not only develop the football team. That's very very different to an also impressive achievement of walking into a messed up dressing room of players at Barcelona that was severely underperforming but was undoubtedly brimming with top class ability that was if managed very well, ready to challenge for everything, and had arguably the greatest football of all time coming up. While what Pep did was brilliant and people sometimes don't give him enough credit for it, it's nowhere near the same as waking up a sleeping giant and then dominating. Sir Alex also was with United through the few tough times we had. In 2003 when arsenal and Chelsea started taking over, we looked like we were mostly in Chelsea's shadow as a financial power. Now, SAF did spend of course, but much of our rise in 2006-07 had to do with the great man developing footballers rather than just being able to spunk silly money. Rooney was expensive but the likes of Park, Vidic, Evra, VDS etc were all smart buys and combined with top class management we won 5 titles in 7 years. For me, Sir Alex had a bit of Pep (trophy winning machine) and a bit of Klopp/Simeone (ability to defy odds, deal with difficult situations and win with not so great players). As great as Peps achievements are, winning league titles with Bayern where it's criminal not to do so and City where he's spent a billion on defenders at will, aren't special achievements worth their weight in gold.

Ultimately, Pep may have what some people consider the perfect managerial career. And to each their own. But I think the romantic in me will always have a bigger place for a variety of achievements and winning while always having the best whilst is the sign of a top manager, does have a slight blot against it.
 

Olecurls99

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Absolutely. Sir Alex was a title winning machine but he also had that ability to build, rebuild and develop from the ground up. He was a true manager of the football club which is why comparing the likes of him and Shankly, Busby etc to today's "coaches" is pointless given the greater responsibilities the older chaps had. To put it in context, Sir Alex achieved the impossible at Aberdeen breaking the old firm rivalry and winning a European cup, and basically re-created one of footballs elite clubs. He had to mould the culture at Manchester United not only develop the football team. That's very very different to an also impressive achievement of walking into a messed up dressing room of players at Barcelona that was severely underperforming but was undoubtedly brimming with top class ability that was if managed very well, ready to challenge for everything, and had arguably the greatest football of all time coming up. While what Pep did was brilliant and people sometimes don't give him enough credit for it, it's nowhere near the same as waking up a sleeping giant and then dominating. Sir Alex also was with United through the few tough times we had. In 2003 when arsenal and Chelsea started taking over, we looked like we were mostly in Chelsea's shadow as a financial power. Now, SAF did spend of course, but much of our rise in 2006-07 had to do with the great man developing footballers rather than just being able to spunk silly money. Rooney was expensive but the likes of Park, Vidic, Evra, VDS etc were all smart buys and combined with top class management we won 5 titles in 7 years. For me, Sir Alex had a bit of Pep (trophy winning machine) and a bit of Klopp/Simeone (ability to defy odds, deal with difficult situations and win with not so great players). As great as Peps achievements are, winning league titles with Bayern where it's criminal not to do so and City where he's spent a billion on defenders at will, aren't special achievements worth their weight in gold.

Ultimately, Pep may have what some people consider the perfect managerial career. And to each their own. But I think the romantic in me will always have a bigger place for a variety of achievements and winning while always having the best whilst is the sign of a top manager, does have a slight blot against it.
Perfectly summed up. Well said
 

RedRonaldo

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GOAT manager comparison

1. Fergie
- won 49 trophies
- took underdog Aberdeen to multiple league titles and won European Cup winners cup. Hence he is proven at all level.
- build different teams to dominate English football across 2 decades
- capable of winning multiple titles with limited budget
- good at counter attacking and attacking football, but also can adapt with different styles and approach to maximize impact from his players
- top top class in man management, his influence to a football club is almost unmatched in history of game
- only managed to win 2 CL in his 30+ years managerial career, if only he could win 1-2 more...

2. Pep
- won 30 trophies (could win his 32th by end of season)
- won multiple trophies in 3 different leagues and teams
- mastering the best attacking style to dominate games with beautiful football
- average won 2-3 trophies per year, easily the most successful manager ever if counted as average per year
- won 2 CL in 12 years, on the way to win his 3rd this year
- need big budget to backup his plan to win trophies with best players/teams to realize his football, so he is rather unproven with the underdogs if budget is limited
 
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Amar__

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Looks like he has finally learned to win away CL games which is a big improvement for him.
 

SqualorVictoria

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Looks like he has finally learned to win away CL games which is a big improvement for him.
I liked the second half performance very much but it was still a very lucky win if you consider the quality of chances they created throughout the game. It's not like the performances were worse when he went out against Tottenham or even Liverpool who got the better of the refereeing decisions in both games.

That being said, what is definitely a kind of a novelty this season, is that City don't collapse after going down and generally are converting their chances in a great manner in the last 16. They played really great at Dortmund and didn't really got fazed after going down, even though again the goals were a bit lucky.
 

Adisa

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City will inevitably be back to level with others once Pep has had enough, which part of me feels would be if he wins CL with them. Not much more left to be done then.
I think he'll be there as long as he's comfortable. His family love the city. He'll be there for a while yet.
 

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Wenger was a great manager once, but you have to think of him that way for more than success. His success with arsenal was rather limited. 3 PL titles in 19 years and no CL.
For a big part of his tenure the owners were penny pinching to fund the stadium build. Wenger is hugely underrated. To think the Arsenal fans were trying to kick him out of the club because reaching top 4 wasn’t deemed good enough. It’s only gone downhill since he left. Arsenal massively struggled after 2005. What he achieved between 1997 to 2005 was incredible with the funds he had.
 

RedBanker

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Yep, must be a contender for the most idiotic thread title in Caf history :lol:
The one who created the thread title will be the one simping for Pep if at all he leaves City in the near future. Talk about sour grapes!
 

SqualorVictoria

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Yep, must be a contender for the most idiotic thread title in Caf history :lol:
There is a sack watch thread dedicated to pretty much all of the rival managers on here, or even to Zidane and the likes, so I'm pretty sure it's meant in a fun and not-so-serious way. Basically the sack threads have become the manager threads on the Caf along the way. "It's just banter."
 

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Pep is a great manager who relies on having every/overwhelming advantages over his opponents. Ferguson had to beat off Chelsea and City who could outspend him along with the likes of real Madrid and Juventus etc who had better players in some instances. Pep takes the safest roles
 

amolbhatia50k

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Pep is a great manager who relies on having every/overwhelming advantages over his opponents. Ferguson had to beat off Chelsea and City who could outspend him along with the likes of real Madrid and Juventus etc who had better players in some instances. Pep takes the safest roles
Agree. It doesn't mean he isn't a managerial great of course. If you have a blank cheque and can blow everyone out of the water financially, then Pep is your man to win and in style, but the spending is absurd - he's bought defender after defender to finally get the backline fixed which is enabling them to reach the final this year.
 

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Agree. It doesn't mean he isn't a managerial great of course. If you have a blank cheque and can blow everyone out of the water financially, then Pep is your man to win and in style, but the spending is absurd - he's bought defender after defender to finally get the backline fixed which is enabling them to reach the final this year.
Bayern also were already the best in their league. Dunno why he took that job
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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It's funny to see Man Utd fans wishing Pep is gone rather than hoping to beat a Pep team to the title. I guess you guys will not be real champions if you only win the title after Pep leaves Man City?

Only bad teams seek to win titles by hoping their rival team's manager is gone.
Pep is one of a kind. We can buy prime Messi and Ronaldo and I would still expect Pep football to be champion over the course of a season. It is not about being soft, it is about being realistic.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I started this thread and I have to admit that Pep did what I thought he wouldn't ever do, he became more pragmatic. They're now less spectacular in attack but much more secure in defence and it probably will take them to their first CL final.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Bayern also were already the best in their league. Dunno why he took that job
They were already the best in Europe as well. He took the job because it was of little risk and almost guaranteed to win. He is a top manager obviously but as others have said he will guarantee trophy after trophy as long as he has the best team or the most money to spend.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Pep is one of a kind. We can buy prime Messi and Ronaldo and I would still expect Pep football to be champion over the course of a season. It is not about being soft, it is about being realistic.
We are 10 points behind them in the league now but at one point we were top, you really think this team would have slipped up as much to drop below the top team by 10 points with prime Messi and Ronaldo added to the squad? This United team isn't as far off from City as people are making out.
 

MO_Football92

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Wenger was a great manager once, but you have to think of him that way for more than success. His success with arsenal was rather limited. 3 PL titles in 19 years and no CL.
True but we had a low net spend and consistently got top 4 for twenty years.

As an Arsenal fan actually, I'd praise him more for his work between 2006-2013.
 

mu4c_20le

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Yep, must be a contender for the most idiotic thread title in Caf history :lol:
There was talk of sacking him after the poor start to the season, so it isn't that far fetched.

Bayern also were already the best in their league. Dunno why he took that job
So people can say he was successful and won trophies wherever he goes.
 

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This thread is packed to the rafters with extremism, either hero worship or fraud claims.

Pep is probably the best manager there's been at taking the best team in a league and making them look and play like it. Barca, Bayern, and City were all the best team around when he took over, and he made it show.
 

Olecurls99

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This inferior squad had Ronaldo, Kaka, Ramos, Modric, Benzema, Xabi, Ozil, Khedira, Marcelo, Coentrao, Casillas, Pepe, DiMaria
Yeah great squad. Barcas was even better. The following year they got over 100 points with Vilanova as coach. It's the players lads.