Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?

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Banana Republic

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We would all do well, if we haven’t already, to forget about Haaland.....

....We can develop Greenwood at CF, with Cavani for cover.
Martial, if not sold, can cover for Rashford.
Diallo and James for additional depth. I assume Mata is leaving. No idea what’s what with Pellistri.
With the slimy fatso (Raiola) rumoured to be looking at between £500k to £1m pw in wages, that circus is not coming to OT, even on the buyout clause next year.

If Diablo and Pellistri come good, they’ll both be an upgrade on James and Greenwood playing on the the right.
That will be another season or two ahead though.
Sancho would then be a perfect fit on the left, where he plays the most and is most productive.
That leaves the CF and central striker options up for debate, plus we don’t know what Cavani will end up doing.

Mata is out of contract at the end of this season and many thought he’d be leaving on a free., maybe for one last gig back in Spain.
Recent press speculation is we’re going to offer him a 1 year extension.
 

Boavista

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Aubameyang, Batshuayi and Alcacer all played up top,

Gotze was a failed experiment for half a season. Reus never really played up top that often, only when they realised Isak (another one!) or Phillip couldn't or didn't have the quality at the time to fill in, then they got Haaland.
Those three barely played with Sancho. Aubameyang left in January 2018, about the time Sancho broke through. Batshuayi was at Dortmund for a couple of months, and didn't even play 90 minutes with Sancho in total. Alcacer started a grand total of 11 league matches for Dormund in 18/19. 6 league matches in 19/20. And not all of them with Sancho, but the majority I believe. Isak might have played once with Sancho?

Maybe Gotze was a failed experiment, but he was first choice more often than Alcacer that season and did a good job for the most part. All things considered Gotze, Reus and Philipp played the CF role more often with Sancho than any of the conventional strikers you listed.
 

The holy trinity 68

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With the slimy fatso (Raiola) rumoured to be looking at between £500k to £1m pw in wages, that circus is not coming to OT, even on the buyout clause next year.

If Diablo and Pellistri come good, they’ll both be an upgrade on James and Greenwood playing on the the right.
That will be another season or two ahead though.
Sancho would then be a perfect fit on the left, where he plays the most and is most productive.
That leaves the CF and central striker options up for debate, plus we don’t know what Cavani will end up doing.

Mata is out of contract at the end of this season and many thought he’d be leaving on a free., maybe for one last gig back in Spain.
Recent press speculation is we’re going to offer him a 1 year extension.
Diallo is only 1 year younger than Greenwood and Pellistri is the same age, so I doubt either would be an upgrade on Greenwood on the right, which is no disrespect to them as Greenwood is one of the best, teenage wide forwards in the world.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Again,

Any team would struggle without Bruno, Pogba or both, bar City! Its an obvious statement to say 'take your best two players out of the team and we'd struggle'.

We have plenty of creativity without them, we can score goals without them and have done, it just so happnes that they are our two best players both on the ball and without it.

Rashford has been the second most creative player in the team other than Bruno, followed by Shaw and then if you take pure stats it would be Martial. Taking all stats on a game by game average Pogba is not really hitting the hights in terms of pure numbers, Rashford, Martial and Shaw all are above his figures.

Ings to Cavani is a downgrade, having said that Ings has a near one goal to two game ratio at Southampton, so not really that much of a downgrade in terms of numbers.
I'm not insinuating he is the answer here, merely suggesting that without someone who can lurk inside the box we will not be getting the best of Sancho, I use the way Dortmund play as evidence of this, they have consistently had a number 9 in the box exploiting the delivery.

I would welcome Sancho, but we need a striker to get the best from him, thats all i am saying!
The aim is to challenge the league, meaning competing with City. If any teams including us are struggling without Bruno or Pogba or both bar City then that is clear obvious which aspect the team needs to improve if we want to challenge the league.

I told you before it is not about number of assists. Don’t let number assists play the trick, Rashford only has 3.51 xA (expected assists) despite of having 8 assists (LINK). Meaning, the quality chances he created is only worth of 3-4 assists which speaks a lot why we need to add another creative player in the squad. Rashford hasn’t been our second most creative player. Shaw has been our second most creative player this season, Shaw’s xA is much higher.

Again, we can't buy everyone mate. If the choice is winger like Sancho or striker type that ‘’lurk inside the box’’ then the choice is Sancho to me because if we have players who can create good quality chances it will improve Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Bruno‘s goals & end products. Look at man city without Aguero and they are still winning the league because they have enough players who can create good quality chances.

Unless if we are getting a complete package striker like Kane and Benzema who are also creative then I will pick them over Sancho.
 

Adisa

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Don't know how one can watch is and say we don't suffer from a lack of creativity. Look at how many chances City or Liverpool (at their best) create.
You need glasses if you feel we are anywhere close to that.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Yeah I'm tilting towards RW>ST. Plus I like the idea of Rashford- Greenwood - Sancho - Martial as our attackers. Think we would end up begging for a natural striker but this attack looks fancy on paper and reminds me of Ronaldo Rooney Tevez Berbatov.
 

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I'm sure BvB have been asking Sancho to help the team get into the CL next season and they will look favourably on this and sanction a realistic move to United.
 

Champ

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Those three barely played with Sancho. Aubameyang left in January 2018, about the time Sancho broke through. Batshuayi was at Dortmund for a couple of months, and didn't even play 90 minutes with Sancho in total. Alcacer started a grand total of 11 league matches for Dormund in 18/19. 6 league matches in 19/20. And not all of them with Sancho, but the majority I believe. Isak might have played once with Sancho?

Maybe Gotze was a failed experiment, but he was first choice more often than Alcacer that season and did a good job for the most part. All things considered Gotze, Reus and Philipp played the CF role more often with Sancho than any of the conventional strikers you listed.
And Gotze was replaced by Haaland as they wanted a player more suitable for the role, someone like Alcacer, Isak, Batshuayi...but better....so I'm not really getting your point here!! Sorry.
 

Boavista

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And Gotze was replaced by Haaland as they wanted a player more suitable for the role, someone like Alcacer, Isak, Batshuayi...but better....so I'm not really getting your point here!! Sorry.
You said Dortmund have almost always played with a target striker while Sancho was there. And that's simply not true until they got Haaland. Sancho's performances have been good even before Haaland's arrival. It's not a complicated point.
 

Champ

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The aim is to challenge the league, meaning competing with City. If any teams including us are struggling without Bruno or Pogba or both bar City then that is clear obvious which aspect the team needs to improve if we want to challenge the league.

I told you before it is not about number of assists. Don’t let number assists play the trick, Rashford only has 3.51 xA (expected assists) despite of having 8 assists (LINK). Meaning, the quality chances he created is only worth of 3-4 assists which speaks a lot why we need to add another creative player in the squad. Rashford hasn’t been our second most creative player. Shaw has been our second most creative player this season, Shaw’s xA is much higher.

Again, we can't buy everyone mate. If the choice is winger like Sancho or striker type that ‘’lurk inside the box’’ then the choice is Sancho to me because if we have players who can create good quality chances it will improve Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Bruno‘s goals & end products. Look at man city without Aguero and they are still winning the league because they have enough players who can create good quality chances.

Unless if we are getting a complete package striker like Kane and Benzema who are also creative then I will pick them over Sancho.
You contradict yourself here, you say we cannot buy everyone yet then say that because we miss our two best players when they're not playing it clear where the problem lies!!
Yes, the issue lies with quality in depth which City have in abundance.
We can't buy everyone which is why I'm saying we go for a backup lower cost alternatives like Ings if Cavani isn't an option.
Rashford having a higher number of assists to his expected assists suggests he is assisting someone who has is outperforming their expected goal tally...which majority of our players are...
Stats eh, gotta love em.
 

Champ

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You said Dortmund have almost always played with a target striker while Sancho was there. And that's simply not true until they got Haaland. Sancho's performances have been good even before Haaland's arrival. It's not a complicated point.
No, it's true.
They played Gotze there for half a season or so because their main target strikers were poor...before they got Alcacer in starting.
Sancho's performances were not as good in the first season. He improved in the second season massively, several reasons for this, but considering Dortmunds top league scorer was Alcacer, stands to reason that having a target man there certainly assisted.
 

Boavista

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No, it's true.
They played Gotze there for half a season or so because their main target strikers were poor...before they got Alcacer in starting.
Sancho's performances were not as good in the first season. He improved in the second season massively, several reasons for this, but considering Dortmunds top league scorer was Alcacer, stands to reason that having a target man there certainly assisted.
Alcacer was top scorer in Sancho's second season, but 13 of his 18 goals came as a sub. Like I said he wasn't a starter for more than a few matches at a time, in fact he never really became a starter. Götze alone started more matches at CF than Alcacer. Reus did too in that half season 19/20.

I'm not saying having a target man is bad for Sancho at all, just that he's shown he can perform with a more flexible front line as well. He worked brilliantly with Reus up top for instance.
 

croadyman

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Don't know how one can watch is and say we don't suffer from a lack of creativity. Look at how many chances City or Liverpool (at their best) create.
You need glasses if you feel we are anywhere close to that.
Yeah we massively suffer from a lack of creativity but seems Ole doesn't see an issue there compared to CB or ST
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You contradict yourself here, you say we cannot buy everyone yet then say that because we miss our two best players when they're not playing it clear where the problem lies!!
Yes, the issue lies with quality in depth which City have in abundance.
We can't buy everyone which is why I'm saying we go for a backup lower cost alternatives like Ings if Cavani isn't an option.
How is ‘’cannot buy everyone‘’ is relevant to missing Pogba or Bruno? You lost the plot. :lol: The point of me telling you that we cannot buy everyone is referring to our budget might only allow us to buy one of winger or striker not both of them.

If we can add Sancho and Ings, sure, I have no issue with that. But you need to read first before posting because I’m discussing about which one is more priority winger or striker if we are only allowed to sign one. My choice will be Sancho because what cost us the league this season is those 7x 0-0 draws we got. It‘s clear where the no 1 weakness is. Lack of creativity! The fact Man City xG is much higher than us reflects to it.

You don’t like stats right, here look at picture below. Remember that? The fact that Rashford chose not to pass to Cavani but chose the wrong option to dribble by himself and lost it. This is what I was referring to about Rashford & the lack of creativity and we have seen it a lot. Sancho & Bruno would have choose to pass it because that’s what type of players they are, they can find the right man to pass to.



Rashford having a higher number of assists to his expected assists suggests he is assisting someone who has is outperforming their expected goal tally...which majority of our players are...
Stats eh, gotta love em.
That’s why we cannot have that. We should be having someone who can create lot of top quality chances also mean higher xA so our players can have easier chances to score instead of forcing them to score something that is unexpected to be goal but relies on individual‘s clinical or luck.
 
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croadyman

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The aim is to challenge the league, meaning competing with City. If any teams including us are struggling without Bruno or Pogba or both bar City then that is clear obvious which aspect the team needs to improve if we want to challenge the league.

I told you before it is not about number of assists. Don’t let number assists play the trick, Rashford only has 3.51 xA (expected assists) despite of having 8 assists (LINK). Meaning, the quality chances he created is only worth of 3-4 assists which speaks a lot why we need to add another creative player in the squad. Rashford hasn’t been our second most creative player. Shaw has been our second most creative player this season, Shaw’s xA is much higher.

Again, we can't buy everyone mate. If the choice is winger like Sancho or striker type that ‘’lurk inside the box’’ then the choice is Sancho to me because if we have players who can create good quality chances it will improve Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Bruno‘s goals & end products. Look at man city without Aguero and they are still winning the league because they have enough players who can create good quality chances.

Unless if we are getting a complete package striker like Kane and Benzema who are also creative then I will pick them over Sancho.
Yeah it's either of them or Haaland but still pretty confident none of them are gettable so should be sensible and focus on Sancho instead but looks like Utd will keep on pursuing a striker until they find it's too late to switch
 

Champ

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How is ‘’cannot buy everyone‘’ is relevant to missing Pogba or Bruno? You lost the plot. :lol: The point of me telling you that we cannot buy everyone is referring to our budget might only allow us to buy one of winger or striker not both of them.

If we can add Sancho and Ings, sure, I have no issue with that. But you need to read first before posting because I’m discussing about which one is more priority winger or striker if we are only allowed to sign one. My choice will be Sancho because what cost us the league this season is those 7x 0-0 draws we got. It‘s clear where the no 1 weakness is. Lack of creativity! The fact Man City xG is much higher than us reflects to it.

You don’t like stats right, here look at picture below. Remember that? The fact that Rashford chose not to pass to Cavani but chose the wrong option to dribble by himself and lost it. This is what I was referring to about Rashford & the lack of creativity and we have seen it a lot. Sancho & Bruno would have choose to pass it because that’s what type of players they are, they can find the right man to pass to.





That’s why we cannot have that. We should be having someone who can create lot of top quality chances also mean higher xA so our players can have easier chances to score instead of forcing them to score something that is unexpected to be goal but relies on individual‘s clinical or luck.
I'm done here :lol:
You say we lack creativity without our best players. We don't, we lack quality without them.
You say the nil nil draws are what cost us, yet in alot of those games we created chances, we just needed someone to be on the end of the chances...someone like a striker.

Then you pick one moment to prove Rashford isn't creating...our second highest goal provider this season, with a high key passes rate in games....

I love stats, it's just you can manipulate them to whatever outcome you want.

The simple way to describe this is Sancho would improve us, but we will get more out of him if we keep Cavani or get a similar player.
Our budget this season will stretch to two/three players I'm sure.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I'm done here :lol:
You say we lack creativity without our best players. We don't, we lack quality without them.
:lol: I have read it 3x already and I still can't stop laughing. That quality that we are missing when Bruno & Pogba don't play is creativity mate because they are playmaker!

You say the nil nil draws are what cost us, yet in alot of those games we created chances, we just needed someone to be on the end of the chances...someone like a striker.
Striker will struggle to score goal if they don't get good quality of service, smaller xG indicates poor quality of chances. While bigger xG indicates good quality of chances means provide bigger chance for a striker to score. Our xG in those games we lost points were poor. Thus, the aim is to improve the xG by adding a playmaker into the squad like Sancho because he is a creative winger, a playmaking winger.








Then you pick one moment to prove Rashford isn't creating...our second highest goal provider this season, with a high key passes rate in games....

I love stats, it's just you can manipulate them to whatever outcome you want.
What high key passes? You don't like stats because you prefer to lie to win argument. Trying to lie about that key pass to win an argument is not going to achieve anything but sink in in delusional.

Rashford is not playmaker, he is a goalscorer. Thus, why we are lacking quality in our playmaking/creativity without our playmakers Pogba & Bruno.

The simple way to describe this is Sancho would improve us, but we will get more out of him if we keep Cavani or get a similar player.
Our budget this season will stretch to two/three players I'm sure.
Ings is not similar player to Cavani. I told you already the discussion is about which area is no 1 priority. 2nd or 3rd priority is irrelevant to the discussion.
 
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Champ

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:lol: I have read it 3x already and I still can't stop laughing. That quality that we are missing when Bruno & Pogba don't play is creativity mate because they are playmaker!



Striker will struggle to score goal if they don't get good quality of service, smaller xG indicates poor quality of chances. While bigger xG indicates good quality of chances means provide bigger chance for a striker to score. Our xG in those games we lost points were poor. Thus, the aim is to improve the xG by adding a playmaker into the squad like Sancho because he is a creative winger, a playmaking winger.










What high key passes? Don't just talk, trying to lie about that key pass to win an argument is not going to achieve anything but sink in in delusional.

Rashford is not playmaker, he is a goalscorer. Thus, why we are lacking quality in our playmaking/creativity without our playmakers Pogba & Bruno.
Did we have Bruno for those nil nil draws? Maybe missing Pogba for a few?

I'm not trying to win an argument here, I'm merely saying Sancho alone isn't the answer, and everything you are putting up here isn't changing my mind, it's actually reinforcing it.
Take the Leeds game as a prime example, we should have won that game, our expected goals is much much higher than that of the opposition. Yet we didn't. Bruno started, Pogba came on off the bench. Cavani starting may of made a difference, we'll never know.

Anyhow, I feel this isn't the thread to discuss the one and outs of how United are the second highest scorers in the league despite not having any creativity outside two players, one of them who has only been fit for half a season.
 

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One of these days I'll wake up and log on here and not be greeted with mind numbingly tedious essays by the usual suspect derailing yet another thread, today is not that day.

I feel Sancho will be the big signing, and the rest of our business might annoy many on here with how much will go the cheap route.
 

rimaldo

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not convinced by sancho. he was fully fit yesterday but didn’t start for psg. you don’t pay 100m for someone left out of a cl semi final.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Did we have Bruno for those nil nil draws? Maybe missing Pogba for a few?
Missing Pogba.

I'm not trying to win an argument here, I'm merely saying Sancho alone isn't the answer, and everything you are putting up here isn't changing my mind, it's actually reinforcing it.
Take the Leeds game as a prime example, we should have won that game, our expected goals is much much higher than that of the opposition. Yet we didn't. Bruno started, Pogba came on off the bench. Cavani starting may of made a difference, we'll never know.

Anyhow, I feel this isn't the thread to discuss the one and outs of how United are the second highest scorers in the league despite not having any creativity outside two players, one of them who has only been fit for half a season.
I never say Sancho alone is the answer. I told you this like 4x already I was discussing about which one I will put as no 1 priority above the others not Sancho alone is the answer. Get a grip mate.
 

Champ

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Missing Pogba.



I never say Sancho alone is the answer. I told you this like 4x already I was discussing about which one I will put as no 1 priority above the others not Sancho alone is the answer. Get a grip mate.
Chill with your hostility, not quite sure why your shouting at the clouds!

I'm still not really sure your point of showing them graphics, only reinforcing my points.

RW/right side has always been the priority, it was this season, will be next. Also striker is a priority, hence our want to keep Cavani. We keep him and we'll be alright with getting Sancho, but you can guarantee if Cavani goes we will be going for a right sided player as well as a striker. Why? For the reasons I've mentioned.
Didn't need a multitude of graphics or expected goals to know that.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Chill with your hostility, not quite sure why your shouting at the clouds!

I'm still not really sure your point of showing them graphics, only reinforcing my points.

RW/right side has always been the priority, it was this season, will be next. Also striker is a priority, hence our want to keep Cavani. We keep him and we'll be alright with getting Sancho, but you can guarantee if Cavani goes we will be going for a right sided player as well as a striker. Why? For the reasons I've mentioned.
Didn't need a multitude of graphics or expected goals to know that.
I think people have to realise one thing. The priority isn't a right winger, it's Sancho. If Sancho is still considered expensive we wouldn't be getting a right winger. Greenwood who Ole currently sees as a wide forward will still play there and we'd focus on other positions and maybe go in for Sancho again next year with one year left.
 

hungrywing

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He's always "only" been worth around 70m-80m.

Woodward being stupid/incompetent has added to any player's price when quoted to us.

negotiation tactic

Dortmund: A player as important as Sancho can't be risked in a game against Man City. You, as executives at a club such as Manchester United, surely know this.
Woodward: Oh God, they're right. Find out if we can secure 180m.
Judge: I'm on it. In the meantime, find out if we can secure those hookers from last year on the yacht who were impressed by us.
Dortumund: These two really as stupid as everyone at Real/Sevilla/Barce/Ajax/Sporting/Chelsea/Arsenal etc etc etc are saying they are. Are you sure we shouldn't be asking for even more.
 

Champ

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I think people have to realise one thing. The priority isn't a right winger, it's Sancho. If Sancho is still considered expensive we wouldn't be getting a right winger. Greenwood who Ole currently sees as a wide forward will still play there and we'd focus on other positions and maybe go in for Sancho again next year with one year left.
Yeah,

I'd go along with this, however I do think Greenwood is better served playing centrally. Although looking forward we do have Diallo hovering around the proximity of the first team, so potentially after a good pre season he could be an option moving forward, although it still may be too soon for him.
 

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One of these days I'll wake up and log on here and not be greeted with mind numbingly tedious essays by the usual suspect derailing yet another thread, today is not that day.

I feel Sancho will be the big signing, and the rest of our business might annoy many on here with how much will go the cheap route.
I really want you to be right but I'm just not hearing anything on it at all. Still early days of course, but we're now coming up to the end of the season and the biggest noises seem to be around a striker (which would absolutely be the wrong way to go about things). The only hope we have if that striker comes in, is if Amad properly cements himself in the team next season but that is such a massive risk.

I can take us going for a CB over a DM but I can't take us going after a striker when the RW has been MIA since 2013.
 

Adnan

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Thing is, Sancho was always a player who'll eventually end up on the left wing. It's just more natural to him. This season he's already found on the left most of the time and IMO he's clearly better there. If you cut into the center - and the dribblings and one twos in tight spaces are his biggest assets - it's better to have the ball on your inside foot.

Thus I get the feeling that United isn't really the perfect fit for Sancho unless they plan to either drop Rashford (wouldn't make sense to me as he's a great player already and homegrown on top of it) or play him on the right/as a striker. I haven't seen much of him in those positions but if this is not an option, I'd stick with Rashford in United's stead and try to sign a left footed player for the right wing. I guess you could also play Sancho as a 10 but Bruno is even more undroppable, IMO.



This. I believe the idea that he's a RW still stems from his first season at Dortmund. He gradually drifted to the left ever since and nowadays that's clearly his favorite side.
Good post.

He's naturally a left sided player which is easy to see. I've been watching him since he was in City's youth team and even for the England youth teams and it's clear to me, he's best deployed coming in off the left.

That doesn't mean I don't want him, because a player of his profile would potentially be very valuable as far as helping us retain possession and to create dangerous situations for the opposition due to his ability in the build up phase, which I feel we need to improve upon and a player with his craft and guile is required along with a creative midfield player who can help us advance play to a high level playing in one of the two deeper roles in midfield.
 

Redcy

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It’s going to be interesting if we lose Cavani as it seems rn. People saying that Martial, Greenwood, Rashford,Sancho looks great on paper, must be playing CM. None of those four are consistent strikers, and I’d argue from what we have seen that martial is the only actual striker. Greenwood every time he plays down the middle looks shockingly out of place.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Chill with your hostility, not quite sure why your shouting at the clouds!

I'm still not really sure your point of showing them graphics, only reinforcing my points.

RW/right side has always been the priority, it was this season, will be next. Also striker is a priority, hence our want to keep Cavani. We keep him and we'll be alright with getting Sancho, but you can guarantee if Cavani goes we will be going for a right sided player as well as a striker. Why? For the reasons I've mentioned.
Didn't need a multitude of graphics or expected goals to know that.
Explain how the graphics only reinforcing your points?

I was discussing about which position I will put as no 1 priority above the others, not sure why can’t you stick with that original discussion. I know it’s hard to admit that you have misread my post but you just need to accept your mistake and get a grip.
 

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Now that Cavani seems to trigger his 1 year I’m betting we’re going full on for Sancho
 

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Can the mods reopen the 1500 page thread on the Sancho transfer saga from last summer? I feel that’s easier than building another 1500 page thread. Most of the same stuff will be said. “He’s a LW, not a RW.” “He’s from a shite league.” “He’s immature.” Etc.
 

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He is playing well today. Tbf Kiel are a 2nd division team but still he and Dortmund are doing good.

Would take our play a level up.
 

FreddieTheReddie

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Jan 23, 2019
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385
Can the mods reopen the 1500 page thread on the Sancho transfer saga from last summer? I feel that’s easier than building another 1500 page thread. Most of the same stuff will be said. “He’s a LW, not a RW.” “He’s from a shite league.” “He’s immature.” Etc.
I think they don’t want us to talk about a possible Sancho transfer for some reason. The record long thread was closed then there was an attempt to start a new one earlier which was closed immediately. I know many here think it’s unlikely to happen but will be a hot topic of the next window so I don’t know why we can’t discuss.
 
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