OleBoiii
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2019
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The football forum is a mess now and it's probably gonna be this way until the Euros. Here's a measured response to the big topics related to our EL final loss:
Our opponents
I'm starting with this point because it's possibly the most annoying one. I know that the English bias is strong both in the media and in here, but people are talking about Villarreal as if they're a complete walk-over. It's a La Liga team that has made the EL final and beaten Arsenal over two games to get there. And it's their only chance to get CL football, which means that they are gonna have an additional boost. On top of this, Emery seems to have the EL figured out. This was his 4th(!) EL win in just 7 years. Give the man and his team some goddamn respect.
Yes, we were still the favorites to win. But the gap between us is not nearly as big as some of you make it out to be. Not by a long shot.
The starting lineup
I don't think you could argue too much about the starting lineup. Given the injuries, I think it's possibly our strongest starting XI. There will always be disagreements, though. Especially in hindsight if we lose or draw. This happened on a consistent basis when Fergie was in charge as well. It's the nature of fans on the internet. They always seem to know better than the manager, regardless of who's in charge.
The late substitutions
We were the best team in that second half. Things were clicking(apart from in the final third of the pitch) at least up until the 75th minute or so. And our 4 best players were(in my opinion): McTominay, Shaw, AWB and Pogba.
Who should come off and who should come on? Keep in mind that we are chasing a goal and our only attacking "threats" on the bench are James, Mata and Amad. In case you're confused: there is no good sub to make.
McTominay was on fire during that period so taking him off was not an option. Switching Pogba with VDB or Fred is a defensive move and we needed goals. James has been criticized all year, so if you claim that he was the solution then you're simply lying to push your agenda. Amad is just a kid and he's barely played for us. You could argue that switching Rashford with Fred/VDB and putting Pogba out left was a good solution, but that is also a defensive move and only serves the purpose of fresh(but weaker) legs. Also...
Why did Ole sub Greenwood instead of Rashford?
Greenwood was better than Rashford, but only up until a certain point. After the 70th minute or so Greenwood was gradually becoming as invisible as Rashford, if not more. At this point it all comes down to experience and how much energy you have left. It was the right choice, overall.
So who's to blame?
Why does it have to be one single reason? Why do we need a scapegoat? We simply lost an even game against a decent opponent who were playing for their life(in this case: CL football) and defending their goal with all they got. We were not outplayed. We weren't even the worst team. And we lost after 22 penalties.
No trophies, though
A trophy, even a minor one, would certainly have been nice. But let's not start to pretend that it's the end of the world for us. No manager post Fergie has made the top 4 and won a trophy in the same season. If you were given a choice between a comfortable top 4 finish or the EL trophy, most of you would agree that the former is a much stronger indicator of progress. And quite frankly, the only reason any of you would choose the EL trophy over 2nd is because it also leads to CL football. If the stakes were "comfortable top 4 finish" vs "FA Cup win", almost everyone would choose the former, even though the FA Cup isn't that much worse than the EL. You can move the goal posts all you want, but the long term focus is always the PL and CL.
A final positive note
We have made the top 4 for two consecutive seasons for the first time post Fergie. Quite comfortably as well! We also have a very young team, which can only be good for the long term. The summer transfer window will largely decide the outcome of next season, but let's not complain about lack of transfers already in May, shall we? Take a deep breath and enjoy the upcoming summer!
_______________
EDIT:
Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:
I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) needs to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).
That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.
Our opponents
I'm starting with this point because it's possibly the most annoying one. I know that the English bias is strong both in the media and in here, but people are talking about Villarreal as if they're a complete walk-over. It's a La Liga team that has made the EL final and beaten Arsenal over two games to get there. And it's their only chance to get CL football, which means that they are gonna have an additional boost. On top of this, Emery seems to have the EL figured out. This was his 4th(!) EL win in just 7 years. Give the man and his team some goddamn respect.
Yes, we were still the favorites to win. But the gap between us is not nearly as big as some of you make it out to be. Not by a long shot.
The starting lineup
I don't think you could argue too much about the starting lineup. Given the injuries, I think it's possibly our strongest starting XI. There will always be disagreements, though. Especially in hindsight if we lose or draw. This happened on a consistent basis when Fergie was in charge as well. It's the nature of fans on the internet. They always seem to know better than the manager, regardless of who's in charge.
The late substitutions
We were the best team in that second half. Things were clicking(apart from in the final third of the pitch) at least up until the 75th minute or so. And our 4 best players were(in my opinion): McTominay, Shaw, AWB and Pogba.
Who should come off and who should come on? Keep in mind that we are chasing a goal and our only attacking "threats" on the bench are James, Mata and Amad. In case you're confused: there is no good sub to make.
McTominay was on fire during that period so taking him off was not an option. Switching Pogba with VDB or Fred is a defensive move and we needed goals. James has been criticized all year, so if you claim that he was the solution then you're simply lying to push your agenda. Amad is just a kid and he's barely played for us. You could argue that switching Rashford with Fred/VDB and putting Pogba out left was a good solution, but that is also a defensive move and only serves the purpose of fresh(but weaker) legs. Also...
Why did Ole sub Greenwood instead of Rashford?
Greenwood was better than Rashford, but only up until a certain point. After the 70th minute or so Greenwood was gradually becoming as invisible as Rashford, if not more. At this point it all comes down to experience and how much energy you have left. It was the right choice, overall.
So who's to blame?
Why does it have to be one single reason? Why do we need a scapegoat? We simply lost an even game against a decent opponent who were playing for their life(in this case: CL football) and defending their goal with all they got. We were not outplayed. We weren't even the worst team. And we lost after 22 penalties.
No trophies, though
A trophy, even a minor one, would certainly have been nice. But let's not start to pretend that it's the end of the world for us. No manager post Fergie has made the top 4 and won a trophy in the same season. If you were given a choice between a comfortable top 4 finish or the EL trophy, most of you would agree that the former is a much stronger indicator of progress. And quite frankly, the only reason any of you would choose the EL trophy over 2nd is because it also leads to CL football. If the stakes were "comfortable top 4 finish" vs "FA Cup win", almost everyone would choose the former, even though the FA Cup isn't that much worse than the EL. You can move the goal posts all you want, but the long term focus is always the PL and CL.
A final positive note
We have made the top 4 for two consecutive seasons for the first time post Fergie. Quite comfortably as well! We also have a very young team, which can only be good for the long term. The summer transfer window will largely decide the outcome of next season, but let's not complain about lack of transfers already in May, shall we? Take a deep breath and enjoy the upcoming summer!
_______________
EDIT:
Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:
I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) needs to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).
That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.
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