Manager and midfield.
Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?
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Scotland are a solid team, and they negate most of england's strengths (pace/physicality/set pieces) and had zero interest in testing the english high press/counterpress
But yeah, given the talent you'd expect more from Southgate. England don't really move the ball, whoever has it just carries it forward and then tries something...that's also where the lack of a midfield metronome shows, but still, it's on the manager to at least instill some principles collective attacking play...
PS: France are the same, but they get by because Mbappé and Pogba. And better coaching. Southgate still hasn't figured out how to use his fecking best player ffs
But yeah, given the talent you'd expect more from Southgate. England don't really move the ball, whoever has it just carries it forward and then tries something...that's also where the lack of a midfield metronome shows, but still, it's on the manager to at least instill some principles collective attacking play...
PS: France are the same, but they get by because Mbappé and Pogba. And better coaching. Southgate still hasn't figured out how to use his fecking best player ffs
Not really, United have actually been devastatingly good at times last season, fast and explosive, tons of creativity, and score a lot of goals. No top level DMF so is forced to play two in that role.
Ole always picks his best team and doesn’t leave Bruno on the bench. It’s embarrassing that United fans are comparing the two, Southgate doesn’t even know who his best players are. He’s clueless.
Although should say in fairness to Ole he doesn't have Saka, Bellingham, Grealish and Sancho all sat on the bench every game. Maybe he wouldn't ignore them like Southgate does.
Double pivots of technically poor high-energy midfielders to cover for an inability to properly coach your defenders, and over-reliance on the individual talent of the forward players. In that sense Ole and Southgate are identical.
How does Portugal, Germany and Italy have better starting 11's?
Man for man, this England team should match up with anyone.
But as a team, they look like a shambles. That's down to the manager.
Look how Mancini is making that Italy team play. Southgate is a useless yes man.
But as a team, they look like a shambles. That's down to the manager.
Look how Mancini is making that Italy team play. Southgate is a useless yes man.
You could argue that i guess, but you'd be wrong. France and Brazil are juggernauts. England's just not on that level
Germany ? Italy ???? No way Italy have a better first 11 name there top players ? They are good as a unit but player for player they are nowhere near England at all
Na, Ole gets the best out of his number 10. Soutgate benches his
Oh I think Ole’s miles better than Southgate, but the late subs and the desperation for 2 deeper midfielders is remarkably uncanny nonetheless.
Exactly this. How an English manager can go into a major tournament without knowing his best eleven (or at least nine of them) is shocking. Southgate is shocking...tactically remedial, gutless and clueless.
They have one of the best alright. Nowhere near France though.
Both.
English players are overhyped by media, fans and everyone. This drives up their price and we get Maguire level players for 80M
The English players have proven it at club football. It's Southgate.
The midfield is crap, its the same old problem
Doesn’t this happen every tournament for England?
Southgate isn't a good manager and England players will always be overhyped.
This shite 4-2-3-1 with two defensive midfielders is dreadful to watch.
This shite 4-2-3-1 with two defensive midfielders is dreadful to watch.
Obviously there is question marks over Ole and I won’t go into here as there is a million threads but I agree he is miles above Southgate which says everything. I would like to see this England side even with say Potter a manager they would be miles better
Southgate. He played 2 DMs against Scotland. He didn’t play Sancho when we were crying out for urgency.
We have young talented players - they aren’t being played right. Kane shouldn’t be starting - he’s not in good form.
We have young talented players - they aren’t being played right. Kane shouldn’t be starting - he’s not in good form.
Yep. Par for the course.
Southgate, inexperienced at national level and seemingly hasn't got the fuel tactically or in philosophy to make up for it.
Both
It's also fascinating to see a nobody who is forever remembered for his pathetic penalty miss becoming England's manager. The guy has no managerial CV and barely any trophies as a player
It's also fascinating to see a nobody who is forever remembered for his pathetic penalty miss becoming England's manager. The guy has no managerial CV and barely any trophies as a player
It's England and Southgate.
Our play is on individuals, you can see even if we brought Sancho on he'd be isolated on the right like previous games, we'd struggle to bring him into the game without a good passing system.
Like United, if we can get spaces we should be able to exploit them but I think we may even come unstuck when we face a few of the top nations. The passing, movement and commitment to the system is on another level. Watching England compared Germany France Portugal Italy overall is like watching United compared to the CL regular finalists.
The promising England of 2019/20 has regressed quite a lot.
Our play is on individuals, you can see even if we brought Sancho on he'd be isolated on the right like previous games, we'd struggle to bring him into the game without a good passing system.
Like United, if we can get spaces we should be able to exploit them but I think we may even come unstuck when we face a few of the top nations. The passing, movement and commitment to the system is on another level. Watching England compared Germany France Portugal Italy overall is like watching United compared to the CL regular finalists.
The promising England of 2019/20 has regressed quite a lot.
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Don't count on our board though.
Both. Although Southgate makes the problem worse than it otherwise might be.
Ole was 10 times the player and had actually won something as a manager. He also did meah with us
What had Southgate ever achieved?
Southgate is a joke. One of the worst coaches I've ever seen. Genuinely hasn't a clue. Leaving this much talent in his hands as I said is irresponsible. The man even managed to leave the likes of Greenwood at home.
Southgate. You put a top manager in charge of that group of players and you’d see a far more fluid team.
We could barely score a goal from open play last tournament as well, we got by with some goals from CBs from set pieces
Just chickens coming home to roost after the ridiculously overblown positivity from the last tournament
Just chickens coming home to roost after the ridiculously overblown positivity from the last tournament
England do have some good talent (they've certainly proved it for their clubs last few seasons at the very highest level) but I agree...one thing they always lack is a tempo midfielder.
Any team that's reached a final always has one....Pirlo, Modric, Moutinho, Xavi and all the others, I'd say Pogba can play it aswell when disciplined, Kroos etc. Players who can control pace of game centrally. Ones England have with characteristics they always show in the front 3 or as far forward as possible. Or play on the left wing like Scholes who was last of that type (perhaps Wilshere would've developed into one but for all the injuries).
Fits into the English box to box mentality but is problem at very highest level.
Any team that's reached a final always has one....Pirlo, Modric, Moutinho, Xavi and all the others, I'd say Pogba can play it aswell when disciplined, Kroos etc. Players who can control pace of game centrally. Ones England have with characteristics they always show in the front 3 or as far forward as possible. Or play on the left wing like Scholes who was last of that type (perhaps Wilshere would've developed into one but for all the injuries).
Fits into the English box to box mentality but is problem at very highest level.
The players are overrated
Both.
Southgate is a shocking manager. How he got that job and has kept it is a mystery to me. Any time I've seen an England game under him they've beem awful to watched. Think his real problem lies in finding a way of releasing some creativity in the midfield area.
The players are then doing that thing that seems to happen a lot of English international players, where they seem to start buying into their own hype and just stop putting in the performances expected.
Southgate is a shocking manager. How he got that job and has kept it is a mystery to me. Any time I've seen an England game under him they've beem awful to watched. Think his real problem lies in finding a way of releasing some creativity in the midfield area.
The players are then doing that thing that seems to happen a lot of English international players, where they seem to start buying into their own hype and just stop putting in the performances expected.
Phil Foden has to be the most over rated player I’ve ever seen.
About 15 starts for City and he’s the next coming of Gazza
About 15 starts for City and he’s the next coming of Gazza
Players like Declan Rice and Kalvin Phillips will never ever be good enough to win an international tournament. There's no creativity, imagination, passing ability between the two of them and was chasing Croatian players shadows last Sunday and got praised for it especially in Phillips?
Praising mediocre players will be England's downfall once again in this tournament.
Praising mediocre players will be England's downfall once again in this tournament.
That’s it, really. Southgate is clearly out of his depth and underachieving grossly with England squad, but England players are mostly rotational players in the PL superteams, surely not the leaders. Therefore, you see gregarious attitude from most players, as if they are waiting for someone else make things happen… but apart of Kane and Sterling, now out of form, nobody can really mimic DeBruyne, Kante, Bruno, Mane… just to cite real leaders.
Not with that midfield.
Patricio
Cancelo Dias Pepe Guerreiro
Danilo Renato
Bernardo Bruno Jota
Ronaldo
Really? Anyone as the left winger and Maguire for Pepe are literally the only players who get in no questions asked. Shaw or Guerreiro is a wash. Cancelo is out with covid but Semedo is still good. Rice for Danilo isn't a huge difference. None of the teams have anyone all that good to be the partner to the defensive mid. Ronaldo, Bernardo, Bruno, Ruben Dias all walk in and are far better than any England counterpart.Cancelo Dias Pepe Guerreiro
Danilo Renato
Bernardo Bruno Jota
Ronaldo
For Germany, you have their CBs who would walk in, Neuer, Kimmich, Kroos, Gundogan, Goretzka, Muller and probably Gnabry all get in.
For Italy their goalkeeper, defence and midfield is all far better. Chiellini, Bonucci, Donnarumma, Jorginho, Locatelli, Verratti all walk in to England's team. And then add Mancini being 10x the manager Southgate (or any manager at the Euros tbf) is so they perform better as a team.
England's defence without Maguire is meh individually. England's midfield behind the front 4 is not very good. England have Kane as a striker who looks unfit (but class of course), and a great selection of wingers or #10's. Also solid options at fullback. The midfield and centerbacks and goalkeepers are not good. Those are some pretty key positions to be as weak as they are in. And in terms of overall balance, England aren't balanced with their play and can't progress the ball properly at all.
Yup. Southgate is going to waste a decent group of players.
Players a little overrated but the huge problem is Southgate. Laughable manager, yes man who wont upset the higher ups.
At home against Scotland and you play with 2 defensive midfielders. It is actually embarrassing.
At home against Scotland and you play with 2 defensive midfielders. It is actually embarrassing.
England don't have the required quality in central midfield - what can he do about that?