Hahahahaha
Let's put it to a vote who has been the better signing and player for us shall we? If Pogba gets more than 20% of the vote it's rigged.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
Let's put it to a vote who has been the better signing and player for us shall we? If Pogba gets more than 20% of the vote it's rigged.
I agree: you miss a vital part. Competitiveness of competition. When things get tight PP isn’t the player you need.
Eh not really, Pogba is as far from "versatile" as it can get, otherwise we wouldn't have had ton of arguments and discussions about how to get the best of him and what's his best position.
If they pay 80m, take it and get Grealish. Otherwise feck off.
Pogba can excel next to a holding player in a deep midfield two, as one of two no.8's ahead of a no.6 in a three as either the more or less attacking/ advanced player or in a system where that responsibility is shared equally between the two, or as a side/ shuttling midfielder in a diamond, and in all cases from either the left or right side of the pitch. Or from a left attacking position.
Midfielders can't typically play as both a second and third function midfielder, and midfielders who genuinely suit playing wide in a diamond midfield are relatively rare too.
He might even be our most versatile player.
This Pogba you’re describing sounds amazing. We should sign him. Any relation to Paul?
This isn't true at all. Pogba has been shit as a number 6 or in a double pivot next to a holding mid with us whenever he played there. His only good position on the field is a number 8 in a 4-3-3 and even in this he has been pretty inconsistent. You are really talking about an imaginary player that doesn't exist.
A popularity contest won't make anything I said untrue. How about an attempt to disprove my points about both player's performances in the bigger games? In cup games?
Well,it looks like the club and him will be parting ways soon. Feel like both have wasted precious time and energy in trying to
make this work.
Pogba can now move to France and rack up few league titles and CL’s. We can hopefully buy targets with a designated position for them in the team, instead of buying them and trying to shoehorn them in a variety of positions.
And finally. Thanks for the 3-2 at the etihad, Paul. Your time with us should have been more memorable, but it is what it is. Hope we can get a decent fee for him.
make this work.
Pogba can now move to France and rack up few league titles and CL’s. We can hopefully buy targets with a designated position for them in the team, instead of buying them and trying to shoehorn them in a variety of positions.
And finally. Thanks for the 3-2 at the etihad, Paul. Your time with us should have been more memorable, but it is what it is. Hope we can get a decent fee for him.
Love Bruno and what he has brought so far but, he'll tell you himself - he owes us a lot considering not won anything yet in his time here and in a lot of the big games, he's been found rather wanting.
I don't understand the mystery surrounding Pogba. He's been very good for France because he plays for a team that's good enough to be world champions hence their collective is stronger, Defence is superior and midfield is miles better and balanced. Considering his weaknesses (split second decision making, tactically a bit of a headache, can't defend) and our state as a club in his time here it's no surprise that he has been inconsistent and less impressive at United as compared to France.
Doesnt look that way to me. There are o buyers for him and united love extending contracts more than anything. He'll get a tasty new contract and we'll milk it to make ourselves look good.
Totally agree. I don’t know why it’s a shock to people that a player plays better when he’s surrounded by brilliant players. Having said that, it’s time to get rid. Get a decent fee and buy a world class defensive midfielder who actually wants to play for the club. Hopefully Hannibal can get some good game time this season and become the player we hoped Pogba would be.
Just read we're selling him for 75mill and signing Grealish. Oh just imagine ..
Same for France as for United, one game brilliant the other average or worse.
Did you change your opinion on France's system and "attacking fullbacks" after seeing Pavard barely get out of his own half for 90 minutes against Hungary? And do you think its a coincidence this purely defensive RB plays on the same side as Pogba? Like someone in the match day thread put it:
There's no need for Pogba to cover for Pavard sometimes, because the man doesn't leave his own half. Stark contrast from United where Fred often covers for Shaw. This is why you don't see Pogba giving away penalties for France, because he had to make a sliding tackle in his own box. He doesn't need to be there, because he has less defensive responsibility. It's not a coincidence only the LB of France contributed in attacked from time to time.
Pogba has less defensive responsibility for France because he plays with Kante and there's an extra CM in the team (Rabiot). France literally plays with an extra midfielder compared to United. What do you think happens to the defensive responsibilities of the individual midfielders when they're shared by 3 instead of 2?
Hot and cold......I really think we need a warrior like Kante...
Pogba is not a no.6 and is at his best as the most attacking no.8 in a three, but is also very clearly capable of playing in a deeper role. He played well next to Herrera and started off strongly with Matic, and he was the best midfielder at the last World Cup playing alongside Kante. I don't like him playing with McTominay as he tends to play as a no.6 in that pairing. And yes he can be pretty inconsistent. Our third best player this past season though after Shaw and Maguire - the only two good players we have who really show consistency.
Pogba better than Bruno? Really?
No, I don't base my opinion on a poor game from certain players. Pavard being selected has nothing to do with Pogba and he is perfectly fine for Bayern in the same position, also it's not as if France had great options that are overlooked Dubois isn't exactly a world beater. Digne was playing instead of Hernandez and he wasn't better in either halves of the field
As for claiming that Pavard doesn't leave his own half that's a ridiculous statement, he had as many touches in the final third as Digne.
Last season overall, yes I would say so. Poor to begin with, but after being dropped from the starting eleven he was very impactful as a substitute initially and had a strong season from there. Fernandes had longer stretches of poor performances.
I think the impact that Pogba, Fernandes and Rashford had off the bench should have encouraged Solskjaer to rest the latter two more frequently and they might have been a bit fresher.
Eh? He did pretty well against Roma, didn't he?
A key part of both games.
That was a semi, was it not?
If you're going to have an agenda, at least have the decency to present facts.
Pavard also plays a very defensive role as a RB for Bayern, if he's even played there and not at CB. Their LB is Davies (when it's not Hernandez), who almost plays as a winger, kinda like Alba/Marcelo.
I can't post images yet, but you can check Digne's and Pavard's heatmaps here.
France played a high line and you can clearly see from the heat map Pavard was generally positioned statically on the line almost as a 3rd CB. Meanwhile Digne actually got into the box or slightly to the left of it. I'm not sure where you got the touches in the final 3rd stat or if you just eyeballed it, but the fact that Digne made a lot of runs without receiving the ball would explain it.
I never said Pavard shouldn't start, but you argued that Deschamps system is intended to cover for the fullbacks and that Pogba has more defensive responsibilities for France than for Utd:
I have the touches on the same website, you go to chalkboard. The heatmap of both players clearly tells you that Pavard was more used(red/orange color) and it was mainly on the opponent's half, it also shows you that he held the width more than Digne.
As for what I argued in the post that you quoted is that the CMs have to cover for the fullbacks and the wide areas are a weakness for France in defensive transition which is exactly the areas that Hungary targeted. I didn't tell you that the system was specifically intended to cover for fullbacks since the post was about Pogba's defensive responsibilities. Also this applies to every teams playing in 4312 or in a diamond formation.
Edit: And the post that you quoted was about the 4231 with Sissoko or Matuidi playing wde. That system was specifically meant to provide cover for the fullback paired with Payet in 2016 and Mbappé in 2018.
Last edited:
Absolutely not
I saw Digne make a few dummy runs very deep and can't remember seeing much of those from Pavard. This also shows in the heat map where Pavard (unlike Digne) never made it close to the penalty area.
The big red spot where Pavard often got the ball is slightly over the halfway line. It's as far back as he could possibly be, because France played a high line, meaning they were on Hungary's half with the centre backs on the halfway line. So Pavard having a lot of touches slightly over the halfway line means he played very deep in the context of the game.
There is always space for the opposition to attack in transition because they play a high line, not because Pavard is an attacking fullback. There's little for Pogba to worry about defensively from that angle, if Pogba is consistently higher up the pitch than Pavard (as both of their heatmaps show).
Deschamps playing Pogba on the side of the more defensive fullback is a conscious decision by Deschamps to give him less defensive responsibility.
Rabiot is quite a defensive minded player himself. if Pogba doesn't have a freer, more attacking role for France, then who is their attacking midfielder, Rabiot or Kante? Seems to me Pogba is quite clearly the most attacking of the three.
Then his form fell apart after while, in both scenarios, and we had to insert a 3rd midfielder in both situations to balance it (Carrick in the first scenario and Herrera in the second one), so he's not versatile and can't play there regularly.
Also there's no way he was better than Bruno last season.
You have the touches on the site where you found the heatmaps, if you can't remember seeing Pavard you can just check it. Pogba has mainly played on the right for France regardless of who the fullback is and the other starting fullback is Hernandez who was rested due to a knee injury. You are trying to see things that aren't there.
Digne made deep runs both to the side and into the box to create space for Mbappe. If he doesn't touch the ball, he's still contributing offensively. That's why the heat map shows Digne being more attacking minded but the touches stat shows them the same. Pavard barely made any forward runs and the heat map shows this. He also didn't get into the box even once.
And no, I'm not "trying to see things", we can pull up the heat maps for both Pavard and Hernandez in the previous Germany game. And while both of the fullbacks are very defensively minded players, Pavard quite literally never got out of his own half and Hernandez did from time to time:
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...nal-European-Championship-2020-France-Germany
Nevertheless I'm curious as to why you think Pogba has more defensive responsibilities for France than for United?
Bruno plays far up the pitch and Fred often leaves his position to do his one man pressing. Our fullbacks like to get forward a lot.
For France most of the time Kante is behind Pogba and the heat maps show Kante plays slightly deeper than him. Also their fullbacks barely make any overlaps, as we've seen in both group stage games now.
Bruno
Fred Pogba
Rabiot Pogba
Kante
Fred Pogba
Rabiot Pogba
Kante
Heatmaps are a map of average touches. It doesn't show you runs or movement that's why they don't represent continuous areas.
And I don't think that Pogba has more defensive responsibilities which is why I said that he has a normal CM job, people were arguing that he had less defensive responsibilities which isn't the case and is shown by the fact that he often has among the best defensive stats for France. Also Kanté doesn't play behind Rabiot and Pogba, it's a flat midfield three.
Pogba just can't keep his mojo up for more then a few games in a row. It's not a matter of tactics, position or man management. It's just him.
He'll always be like this I reckon. It's in his blood.
World beater one game, invisible in the next.
He'll always be like this I reckon. It's in his blood.
World beater one game, invisible in the next.
Pretty much, he is just inconsistent and has always been. I hoped that he would fix it in his late 20s, since that's when most top midfielder manage to find consistency but it's seemingly not going to happen.
Agreed. I think the price tag works against him as well and he did not choose it.
Not really imo. The standards are higher and different for him because of the levels he has set for himself previously. ie Drops a 10/10 followed by a 7/8 out of 10 and in reality it will be painted as a 3/10 stinker and then used as a stick to beat him with while it would be a 7 for any other player.
This standard has never existed for a midfielder before him.
A standard 6/7 out of 10 for him is literally a 10/10 for most midfielder in the world so with this metric he will always be viewed as "inconsistent".
Would you say Bruno has outperformed Pogba in the big games for united? Pogba has a better record in this respect, it not hard.
How many big games Pogba has had an impact on in those 5 years? I bet they won't exceed 5 or 6.
You don’t like Pogba, we get it. Take a break.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I like him just fine. He's a decent player.
Just sick of the absolute nonsense that is said about him on here.
I would have liked to read the full article but fecking Telegraph and their subscription.
- Status