[PeterWunited]

When will people stop making excuses for Pogba?
He has not performed or put in sufficient effort and has been disruptive.
Get rid.

 

[Oranges038]

If Pogba is lazy why has we won so much (more than KDB)? Why do these great teams win huge trophies like the WC, Serie etc with him in a key area such as midfield? Pogba isn't lazy, he is just weak defensively. His problem at United is that he is a tactical misfit with a few important flaws in his game which get highlighted in a usually struggling team. KDB plays under Pep in a great team so it's not as simple as comparing their performanes/output for United and City, but yeah, if I was building a team, I'd take KDB due to those flaws in Pogba's game that work out fine in a quality team but not so much in a team like ours.

A 80m midfielder should be running the team from the middle of the pitch, not having to be shoe horned into the team in a position where he won't be a liability.

He's won a lot, but he was carried at Juve by Pirlo and Marchisio. He's been carried at France by Kante and Matuidi. At Utd he doesn't have the players to carry him and cover his flaws.

He's lazy, he lacks work ethic and responsibility on the pitch and he is coasting through his career. Name any significant area of his game that's improved?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The real difference between KDB and Pogba in the last 5 years is managers, one played under Guardiola and the other under Mourinho and Ole.

Seems too simplistic. Yes, it explains the gap in performances being that big but I don't think Pogba would work as smoothly as KDB did in a 3 man midfield at City especially when Silva is also in that midfield. KDB for me has two things that Pogba does that make him better - discipline and tactical flexibility. Pogba is an excellent player but due to a few key weaknesses he's an enigma but not quite that top class player you know you can always rely on.

 

[JPRouve]

A 80m midfielder should be running the team from the middle of the pitch, not having to be shoe horned into the team in a position where he won't be a liability.

He's won a lot, but he was carried at Juve by Pirlo and Marchisio. He's been carried at France by Kante and Matuidi. At Utd he doesn't have the players to carry him and cover his flaws.

He's lazy, he lacks work ethic and responsibility on the pitch and he is coasting through his career. Name any significant area of his game that's improved?

He didn't pick his fee and it has no relevance to the player he is now or was when we bought him. Also no manager has ever questioned his work ethic, not Conte, Allegri, Deschamps, Mourinho or Ole. In fact Mourinho and Conte praised his work ethic.

It is asinine to talk about someone like that, when all the people that have actually worked with him say the opposite.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

A 80m midfielder should be running the team from the middle of the pitch, not having to be shoe horned into the team in a position where he won't be a liability.

That's our problem that we overpaid for him. And he was never a real midfielder so I dont know why you go on about middle of the pitch. Nothing about Pogba's game really says that he's a true CM.

He's won a lot, but he was carried at Juve by Pirlo and Marchisio. He's been carried at France by Kante and Matuidi. At Utd he doesn't have the players to carry him and cover his flaws.

I agree that his flaws were covered but disagree that he was "carried". Thing is, he isn't good as our Balond Dor contendor estimation was, and now we're whining about him not being the player that we thought we signed. Well, we thought wrong. He is completely ill suited to a club looking to become a top team and he does need his flaws made up for, there are players like that, it's not all that unique. We should have known better as should he.

At the same time it doesnt take away from his achievements. Not many players would have been able to put in those performances he did those trophy wins and he deserves credit for what he's achieved. For example, when I watch France, his class and creativity is much needed amidst France's other workhorse CMs. The guy scored a beauty in the WC final didn't he? Give him some credit FFS. KDB has won nothing in Europe or international level btw

He's lazy, he lacks work ethic and responsibility on the pitch and he is coasting through his career. Name any significant area of his game that's improved?

As I said he's made a piss poor decision to move to a stuggling giant where his flaws as a footballer have been exposed. So when your performances oscillate you can't point to improvements or regressions. I think he lacks discipline on the pitch rather than effort, based on what I see from Pogba. That ability to consistently make the right decisions gets exposed at a team like United when you play alongside Fred and Schneiderlin. On the other hand, I'd say Pobga has done really well for France over the last 5-7 years and his game is a lot better for them now than when he broke through.

 

[Dec9003]

I like Pogba, but he’s not as gifted technically as KDB. If he doesn’t end up leaving he can have a good season again, I thought this season just gone he was really good in parts, derailed a bit by his injury but still a positive season from him. Moving him out to the left sometimes seemed to work well, gives him options and space.

 

[el3mel]

It's three more than you thought, you seemed certain. It's not like Pogba and Bruno are like for like players. Pogba has been expected to put in CAM numbers when he's never been one exclusively at United.

In 1.5 seasons Bruno has only had one big game winning performance (against Liverpool 3-2 in the FA cup) and he's failed to influence proceedings in four cup semifinals. He has 7 goals against the bigger clubs, five of them penalties to Pogba's 8 with only 1 penalty

No other central midfielder has been close to being that productive in the big games for united since Ferguson's departure. Care to name one? Only Rashford and Martial have had bigger impact in the big games and they're forwards. Bruno needs to do more in these

You are treating 3 more games as if it's some sort of a huge number or something. It's also 2 good big game performance for Pogba in his 1.5 year in comparison to Bruno's one, so the difference between them when it comes to big games influences isn't really that much. They are pretty similar in this regard so far.

As for other central midfielders and their contributions in these games, has to do with the fact that our selection of CMs post Fergie has been underwhelming? How many good offensive midfielders did we have in this period bar Pogba and Bruno? I can only think of Herrera and Mata. Even Fellaini was always better up top in the box rather in midfield. The rest you are left with Schneiderlin, Bastian, Fred, Scott, a past it Carrick, Blind some times, who else? Of course Pogba is better and more productive than them. I don't think anyone can argue with this.

We are arguing that the amount of big games he has influenced in these 5 years are pretty low for a world class player. When Bruno reaches 5 years and has only influenced 8-9 games it will also be a big concern just like it's with Pogba. Actually it kinda is at this point for some here anyway.

 

[OL29]

Why hasn't there been a significant improvement in his game in ten years?

Why do we still see him make the same stupid mistakes over amd over?

Why hasn't he learned how to be the midfielder that his natural talent is made for?

Why hasn't he nailed down a firm position in the team week in week out?

How can you assert that he hasn't improved his game in 10 years? Did you watch him in our reserves and at Juve? Moving to new countries, twice at a young age, having to learn new languages and adapt to a new culture doesn't seem like the behaviour of a lazy footballer.

I'm not sure which stupid mistakes you're referring to that we see over and over? I don't remember him making any glaring mistakes this season, he gives away silly penalties at times but I think that's due to him being a poor defender rather than him being lazy. It's not a question of effort, it's a question of ability.

What type of midfielder is his talent made for? Because if he was six inches smaller, he'd most likely be played exclusively as a number 10. If you expect him to be some sort of Vieira regen then of course you'll be disappointed as that's simply not his game.

And using him not having a strict position as a stick to beat him with is unfair. Other players get praised for their versatility but with Pogba, it's somehow indicative of him being lazy. It actually speaks volumes that he can play in different positions because there's plenty of players in our team that look half the player when moved around the pitch.

Now I'd like you to answer me this;

If Pogba's so lazy, how come he's been one of the first names on the team sheet for almost every coach he's played under? Because, barring Mourinho, every manager he's played under speaks highly of him and his attitude and he's been central to almost varying degrees of success at Juve, for France and under Ole. If he's so lazy, surely his attitude would have been exposed by these guys and he would be confined to the bench? Yet, conversely, he's been an automatic starter for his whole career since he left us for Juve. Even Mourinho restored him to his lineup when his job was on the line, despite their differences, and Pogba repaid him some really good form.

 

[pascell]

Whoever approved a 375k pw contract to DDG needs firing. What a fecking waste.

That'll be Matt Judge, who's still in charge of contract negotiations with current players and transfers.

 

[Oranges038]

He didn't pick his fee and it has no relevance to the player he is now or was when we bought him. Also no manager has ever questioned his work ethic, not Conte, Allegri, Deschamps, Mourinho or Ole. In fact Mourinho and Conte praised his work ethic.

It is asinine to talk about someone like that, when all the people that have actually worked with him say the opposite.

That's our problem that we overpaid for him. And he was never a real midfielder so I dont know why you go on about middle of the pitch. Nothing about Pogba's game really says that he's a true CM.


I agree that his flaws were covered but disagree that he was "carried". Thing is, he isn't good as our Balond Dor contendor estimation was, and now we're whining about him not being the player that we thought we signed. Well, we thought wrong. He is completely ill suited to a club looking to become a top team and he does need his flaws made up for, there are players like that, it's not all that unique. We should have known better as should he.

At the same time it doesnt take away from his achievements. Not many players would have been able to put in those performances he did those trophy wins and he deserves credit for what he's achieved. For example, when I watch France, his class and creativity is much needed amidst France's other workhorse CMs. The guy scored a beauty in the WC final didn't he? Give him some credit FFS. KDB has won nothing in Europe or international level btw


As I said he's made a piss poor decision to move to a stuggling giant where his flaws as a footballer have been exposed. So when your performances oscillate you can't point to improvements or regressions. I think he lacks discipline on the pitch rather than effort, based on what I see from Pogba. That ability to consistently make the right decisions gets exposed at a team like United when you play alongside Fred and Schneiderlin. On the other hand, I'd say Pobga has done really well for France over the last 5-7 years and his game is a lot better for them now than when he broke through.

How can you assert that he hasn't improved his game in 10 years? Did you watch him in our reserves and at Juve? Moving to new countries, twice at a young age, having to learn new languages and adapt to a new culture doesn't seem like the behaviour of a lazy footballer.

I'm not sure which stupid mistakes you're referring to that we see over and over? I don't remember him making any glaring mistakes this season, he gives away silly penalties at times but I think that's due to him being a poor defender rather than him being lazy. It's not a question of effort, it's a question of ability.

What type of midfielder is his talent made for? Because if he was six inches smaller, he'd most likely be played exclusively as a number 10. If you expect him to be some sort of Vieira regen then of course you'll be disappointed as that's simply not his game.

And using him not having a strict position as a stick to beat him with is unfair. Other players get praised for their versatility but with Pogba, it's somehow indicative of him being lazy. It actually speaks volumes that he can play in different positions because there's plenty of players in our team that look half the player when moved around the pitch.

Now I'd like you to answer me this;

If Pogba's so lazy, how come he's been one of the first names on the team sheet for almost every coach he's played under? Because, barring Mourinho, every manager he's played under speaks highly of him and his attitude and he's been central to almost varying degrees of success at Juve, for France and under Ole. If he's so lazy, surely his attitude would have been exposed by these guys and he would be confined to the bench? Yet, conversely, he's been an automatic starter for his whole career since he left us for Juve. Even Mourinho restored him to his lineup when his job was on the line, despite their differences, and Pogba repaid him some really good form.

His overall game hasn't improved significantly in ten years. The same things are being said about him now as they were when he broke through. He hasn't worked out any of his flaws, that at 28 he still need them to be covered says everything about him as a footballer.

He might run around a lot, as much as anyone else. But his application and desire to improve on his natural talents and his overall game is what makes him lazy.

 

[Hugh Jass]

On what i have seen since De Bruyne came to the PL, i would be choosing De Bruyne every time over pogba.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

His overall game hasn't improved significantly in ten years. The same things are being said about him now as they were when he broke through. He hasn't worked out any of his flaws, that at 28 he still need them to be covered says everything about him as a footballer.

He might run around a lot, as much as anyone else. But his application and desire to improve on his natural talents and his overall game is what makes him lazy.

You don't know that. Sometimes it's not about lack of desire or lazyness. Nani for example as brilliant as he was for 1.5 years, lacked the mentality of a top top player, I thought, which held him back from being one of the great wingers over a 7-8 period (certainly had the talent). Things like that sometimes don't improve despite your best efforts. The mind is as much as tool as a the body and not everybody can conquer all aspects of it.

 

[JPRouve]

That's our problem that we overpaid for him. And he was never a real midfielder so I dont know why you go on about middle of the pitch. Nothing about Pogba's game really says that he's a true CM.

He is a true CM but he isn't a complete CM like the ones people like to see nowadays. The funny thing about modern Football and Football fans is that they seem to have forgotten a time where being a two-way midfielder wasn't the norm, you had specialists on the field, some CMs were excellent with the ball and others without it. For example Scholes wasn't good defensively, he was a liability in that aspect of the game but United's system worked around it with the use of more traditional wide players and a defensively savvy midfielder next to him, sometimes against strong opponents SAF would use wide players with very defensive assignments as with have seen with Beckham or Park. On the other side in the 2000s you had guys like Tacchinardi, Edmilson, Fink, Kovac, Makélélé, Van Bommel or even Gilberto Silva who weren't particularly good on the ball but excellent defensively.

 

[Ali Dia]

The real difference between KDB and Pogba in the last 5 years is managers, one played under Guardiola and the other under Mourinho and Ole.

I believe it’s on the player as much as any particular manager seeing as he’s only had 2 managers here and performed well under both for spells. His form drops off and then the leaving talk starts up again. I absolutely believe it’s linked to his motivation to get away from utd. Recruitment and forward planning is probably a factor. City have recruited well consistently while up to Ole we have been erratic to put it kindly. Its also there for all to see that Mino offered Pogba to city and they said no. Why do fans unreservedly back up this players desire for success over his harder working teammates who supposedly need to be replaced to get the best out of him? I don’t think any of our PL competition would be stepping in to pay him 400k even on a free next year either. That should say quite a lot about where he actually stands on the podium of PL midfielders. Very talented but far too inconsistent. He probably has only been fully focused on United in fits and spurts and inevitably it shows on the pitch when he meanders.

Thanks to our poor recruitment we are now in a 90 million catch 22. I don’t get this blaming the other players for his defensive shortcomings either. If he can’t g himself up enough to always sprint backwards and put in a tackle or be coached to not always dwell on the ball then he’s just not the right player for us as a box to box. I don’t see how the next few years are going to be much different. Maybe he’ll fully knuckle down on his last big deal but at this point even his biggest supports must realise it’s a very expensive gamble from the club.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/43674624.amp

 

[JPRouve]

His overall game hasn't improved significantly in ten years. The same things are being said about him now as they were when he broke through. He hasn't worked out any of his flaws, that at 28 he still need them to be covered says everything about him as a footballer.

He might run around a lot, as much as anyone else. But his application and desire to improve on his natural talents and his overall game is what makes him lazy.

His overall game has significantly improved, he improved a lot at Juventus and I can tell you that the current version of Pogba is far better and more complete than the first version of Pogba that played for France.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He is a true CM but he isn't a complete CM like the ones people like to see nowadays. The funny thing about modern Football and Football fans is that they seem to have forgotten a time where being a two-way midfielder wasn't the norm, you had specialists on the field, some CMs were excellent with the ball and others without it. For example Scholes wasn't good defensively, he was a liability in that aspect of the game but United's system worked around it with the use of more traditional wide players and a defensively savvy midfielder next to him, sometimes against strong opponents SAF would use wide players with very defensive assignments as with have seen with Beckham or Park. On the other side in the 2000s you had guys like Tacchinardi, Edmilson, Fink, Kovac, Makélélé, Van Bommel or even Gilberto Silva who weren't particularly good on the ball but excellent defensively.

Scholes has a reputation for being poor defensively because he so often made late, ugly challenges (which I think was in part him being a bit of a nasty twat on the pitch) but he was always diligent about tracking runners and making sure he was well positioned when the opposition had the ball.

If anything this idea that central midfielders can only be attacking or defensive (and shite at whatever they’re not specialised at) is an extremely modern phenomenon.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He is a true CM but he isn't a complete CM like the ones people like to see nowadays. The funny thing about modern Football and Football fans is that they seem to have forgotten a time where being a two-way midfielder wasn't the norm, you had specialists on the field, some CMs were excellent with the ball and others without it. For example Scholes wasn't good defensively, he was a liability in that aspect of the game but United's system worked around it with the use of more traditional wide players and a defensively savvy midfielder next to him, sometimes against strong opponents SAF would use wide players with very defensive assignments as with have seen with Beckham or Park. On the other side in the 2000s you had guys like Tacchinardi, Edmilson, Fink, Kovac, Makélélé, Van Bommel or even Gilberto Silva who weren't particularly good on the ball but excellent defensively.

It's not just defending. Scholes' intelligence was among the best of his entire generation and could dictate football matches. Pogba is more of a 'big' creative passer, or someone who brings the flair in the middle. He can't run a football match (Scholes etc), nor can he be the engine room (Keane etc). If you have neither, you're a pseudo CM really. Basically he's someone I want out of the midfield hussle and focused on creating and driving forward. I do like love watching Pogba but he's bit of a headache tactically. Works out fine for a great team not so much for one like ours.

Also, Scholes made some horrible tackles now and then but it's a bit of a myth that he couldnt defend. He was dilligent and disciplined (those insane moments aside) in defence in a way that Pogba can't be IMO.

 

[United in sin]

You are treating 3 more games as if it's some sort of a huge number or something. It's also 2 good big game performance for Pogba in his 1.5 year in comparison to Bruno's one, so the difference between them when it comes to big games influences isn't really that much. They are pretty similar in this regard so far.

As for other central midfielders and their contributions in these games, has to do with the fact that our selection of CMs post Fergie has been underwhelming? How many good offensive midfielders did we have in this period bar Pogba and Bruno? I can only think of Herrera and Mata. Even Fellaini was always better up top in the box rather in midfield. The rest you are left with Schneiderlin, Bastian, Fred, Scott, a past it Carrick, Blind some times, who else? Of course Pogba is better and more productive than them. I don't think anyone can argue with this.

We are arguing that the amount of big games he has influenced in these 5 years are pretty low for a world class player. When Bruno reaches 5 years and has only influenced 8-9 games it will also be a big concern just like it's with Pogba. Actually it kinda is at this point for some here anyway.

A lot of what you've mentioned has more to do with the direction this club has gone than Pogba individually IMO. Pogba is not above criticism but some of the criticism he gets is unjust.

 

[JPRouve]

Scholes has a reputation for being poor defensively because he so often made late, ugly challenges (which I think was in part him being a bit of a nasty twat on the pitch) but he was always diligent about tracking runners and making sure he was well positioned when the opposition had the ball.

If anything this idea that central midfielders can only be attacking or defensive (and shite at whatever they’re not specialised at) is an extremely modern phenomenon.

Scholes was a below average defender from midfield, in terms of positioning or defensive technique. And no being an attacking or defensive midfielder isn't a modern phenomenon if you go outside of the uk where the box to box midfielder was relatively common. The modern game relies significantly more on players being able to be positives in attack and defense than in the past whether we are talking about central midfielders, fullbacks or CBs and even goalkeepers.

 

[JPRouve]

It's not just defending. Scholes' intelligence was among the best of his entire generation and could dictate football matches. Pogba is more of a 'big' creative passer, or someone who brings the flair in the middle. He can't run a football match (Scholes etc), nor can he be the engine room (Keane etc). If you have neither, you're a pseudo CM really. Basically he's someone I want out of the midfield hussle and focused on creating and driving forward. I do like love watching Pogba but he's bit of a headache tactically. Works out fine for a great team not so much for one like ours.

Also, Scholes made some horrible tackles now and then but it's a bit of a myth that he couldnt defend. He was dilligent and disciplined (those insane moments aside) in defence in a way that Pogba can't be IMO.

I said that he wasn't good, I didn't say that he couldn't defend at all, it's not all or nothing. De Bruyne isn't good defensively it doesn't mean that he can't defend, Pogba isn't good defensively but he can defend and like the other two players mentioned he will make mistakes that he wouldn't make if he was good.

 

[OL29]

Scholes was a below average defender from midfield, in terms of positioning or defensive technique. And no being an attacking or defensive midfielder isn't a modern phenomenon if you go outside of the uk where the box to box midfielder was relatively common. The modern game relies significantly more on players being able to be positives in attack and defense than in the past whether we are talking about central midfielders, fullbacks or CBs and even goalkeepers.

Exactly, isn’t this why he was often dropped for Nicky Butt in big games? Scholes also had the privilege of playing in a period where most teams, in England at least, played with 2 midfielders, so getting overrun in the centre of the pitch was less likely, especially when paired with a player like Roy Keane.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That'll be Matt Judge, who's still in charge of contract negotiations with current players and transfers.

In fairness though, he's not some rogue agent who gives out contracts on the sly - he works under the authority of whoever is manager and then gets any contract signed off by Woodward.

 

[JPRouve]

Exactly, isn’t this why he was often dropped for Nicky Butt in big games? Scholes also had the privilege of playing in a period where most teams, in England at least, played with 2 midfielders, so getting overrun in the centre of the pitch was less likely, especially when paired with a player like Roy Keane.

Butt in the late 90s-early 2000s and often a midfield three later. I'm not criticicizing Scholes, I'm just pointing to the fact that not all great midfielders are good at everything, they pretty much all have weaknesses and it's particularly obvious if you go back in time. And I don't even think that Pogba is a great midfielder.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I said that he wasn't good, I didn't say that he couldn't defend at all, it's not all or nothing. De Bruyne isn't good defensively it doesn't mean that he can't defend, Pogba isn't good defensively but he can defend and like the other two players mentioned he will make mistakes that he wouldn't make if he was good.

For me he's worst than them both at it. I am much more comfortable in Scholes as part of my engine than Pogba. Even aside from generally being a much better footballer he had traits suited to a CM which Pogba and was far less useless defensively.


It's about discipline, he's weak in that sense both defensively and with his passing. Let him create and add flair to things and he's fanatastic. But in the actual midfield stuff, tracking back, the ability to cover spaces and not be run past, passing well under pressure, dictating play, I don't think Pogba is good at.

But I don't think it's about effort, lazyness etc but his qualified as a footballer.

 

[OL29]

Butt in the late 90s-early 2000s and often a midfield three later. I'm not criticicizing Scholes, I'm just pointing to the fact that not all great midfielders are good at everything, they pretty much all have weaknesses and it's particularly obvious if you go back in time. And I don't even think that Pogba is a great midfielder.

Yeah and Scholes compensated somewhat for his lack of defensive know-how, with the ability to control a game, decreasing his defensive workload. As you say, not all midfielders are complete in every aspect of the game, that’s why it’s hugely important for a coach to build a team of players who’s strengths and weaknesses complement each other.

 

[Kaos]

Sir Alex allowed him to leave the first time, and I'd wager he'd probably sell him now if he were the manager. A wonderfully gifted player but its no good if he only consistently turns up for France. Would rather we sold and brought in a CDM that improves the spine of our team. Maybe even dangle him to Madrid as part of a Varane swap deal to free up funds for a midfielder.

Some players could have all the talent in the world and it still wouldn't matter unfortunately. We've had several players like him in the past where its worked out for them at their clubs before and after their time with us, but never really with us unfortunately.

 

[OL29]

Sir Alex allowed him to leave the first time, and I'd wager he'd probably sell him now if he were the manager. A wonderfully gifted player but its no good if he only consistently turns up for France. Would rather we sold and brought in a CDM that improves the spine of our team. Maybe even dangle him to Madrid as part of a Varane swap deal to free up funds for a midfielder.

Some players could have all the talent in the world and it still wouldn't matter unfortunately. We've had several players like him in the past where its worked out for them at their clubs before and after their time with us, but never really with us unfortunately.

SAF sent Rio and Evra to convince Pogba to stay and sign a new contract, he didn’t just let him go willingly.

I don’t disagree with the rest of your post though, if we could sell him and use the funds to invest in more urgent parts of our team, that’ll suit all parties. I just don’t see a place for him in our lineup with the way we play. Sticking him on the left isn’t a long term solution and Bruno has too much of an impact to start shuffling him around to fit both players in the team.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Player has flaws shocker.

Jokes aside of course he does, every player does. The question we should be asking is does he bring a net positive regardless, and can we adequately cover up his flaws (in the way a team is supposed to) without sacrificing the balance of our squad?

As for KDB, all I'll say is just actually watch him play especially when out of possession, you'll be surprised he's not nearly as complete as the media/plaudits would have you believe. I'd have loved to see a full season of him in a double pivot in front of Stones + Otamendi, but we all know the reason why Pep didn't do that, and instead is even pushing him further forward.

 

[JPRouve]

For me he's worst than them both at it. I am much more comfortable in Scholes as part of my engine than Pogba. Even aside from generally being a much better footballer he had traits suited to a CM which Pogba and was far less useless defensively.


It's about discipline, he's weak in that sense both defensively and with his passing. Let him create and add flair to things and he's fanatastic. But in the actual midfield stuff, tracking back, the ability to cover spaces and not be run past, passing well under pressure, dictating play, I don't think Pogba is good at.

But I don't think it's about effort, lazyness etc but his qualified as a footballer.

I agree with your point about discipline, the biggest issue with Pogba is that he "ball watch", more often than not his mistake is that he is oggling the ball carrier instead of watching his area, it's not uncommon but if you play a flat midfield two it can be a problem on a few occasions. Now Pogba is generally okay defensively, he has a flaw that can be exploited by good coaches with late runners in the inside channel but it's rarely exploited and by the way McTominay has the same flaw.

Now my main issue with Pogba is what you are alluding to with passing, his technical inconsistency within a game is frustrating and why I don't rate him as highly as I would rate De Bruyne or Scholes who are extremely consistent in that department. To me that's kind of the perplexing side of Pogba's criticism, defensively he isn't worse than De Bruyne or Scholes, technically he definitely is, people look at his ability to do tricks or creatively beat a player but for me when I look at a central midfielder I judge him on four things his abiltiy to control the ball, pass the ball, the speed of that combination and the consistency of the result. Scholes and De Bruyne are better at all of these aspects.

 

[Idxomer]

Seems too simplistic. Yes, it explains the gap in performances being that big but I don't think Pogba would work as smoothly as KDB did in a 3 man midfield at City especially when Silva is also in that midfield. KDB for me has two things that Pogba does that make him better - discipline and tactical flexibility. Pogba is an excellent player but due to a few key weaknesses he's an enigma but not quite that top class player you know you can always rely on.

Tactics could be drilled into players, I see no reason for Pogba no to work with Fernandinho and Silva. De Bruyne's game became more polished under Pep. He also made Delph work as left back, he would have no problem of making Pogba work in his teams.

 

[Tony247]

Pogba is extremely talented and for any team he is difficult to replace. But if he wants to go then the club should let him go. Luring him to stay by throwing money is not a great strategy. Plus it can disturb the wage structure. Cash him if he wants to go and buy Grealish.

 

[Jeppers7]

Why is it an agenda? People are struggling to find 10 games in which he was influencial in 5 years. Not Pogbas fault he was signed for a world record fee but surely it wouldn't be too much to expect a hell of a lot more? Coupled with the fact he's played the wants to leave United card 3 times that we know of it's hard to understand why people keep defending him.

He plays 3 good games in a row and he's World class. He then can go 3 moths playing average football and all of a sudden it's because he doesn't have good enough players around him. The agenda seems to be with people who staunchly support him and not the other way round.

Everything you’ve wrote here is agenda. Non of it is actually true.

 

[Champagne Football]

It would just be so nice for all parties if PSG made a decent offer for him this summer.

But I think it's extremely likely he'll leave for free next season and go back to Juventus. I'm not sure he's done enough in the game in the past year or two to attract serious interest from Madrid and PSG.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Everything you’ve wrote here is agenda. Non of it is actually true.

Granted I exaggerated in the amount of games he's been influencial but no more so than people who call him world class or is very important to the team. Other than that explain how none of the rest is true.

 

[Jeppers7]

Granted I exaggerated in the amount of games he's been influencial but no more so than people who call him world class or is very important to the team. Other than that explain how none of the rest is true.

There you go...like most people on here you ignore individual performances and dive into exaggerated narrative....3 good games and 3 months of being average.

It is why he is so undervalued

If you want my opinion on Pogba, he’s has been no more than good overall since he returned. But make no mistake he has been good overall individually. He’s had plenty of poor games, plenty of average games and a hell of a lot of good to great games. He’s been influential in things we’ve won and achieving top four and getting to finals. He’s been disappointing in a couple of finals, Chelsea and Villarreal despite being one of our better players, and good in the other couple.

I’d have liked to have seen more from him, but I’m not seeing consistency from any of our players in his time back here. Even Bruno who’s numbers are fantastic....his performances rarely are. Our most consistent performers tend to be defenders and keepers. Our team performances are inconsistent, game to game and minute to minute. I can think of plenty of games where the team haven’t played well and Pogba has and helped win us those games, I can’t think of any games where the team has played well and Pogba hasn’t. Ergo I think Pogba generally will play better in a team that plays well and is well coached with great players, but he is still capable of winning games when the team plays poorly from midfield and has done so numerous times.

overall Pogbas inconsistency is massively overplayed and his influence and performances massively under played by exaggeration of facts and ignorance of detail.

Ive give the example many times, but look back on any three month period and tell me where he hasn’t played well at all in that time. Even the start of this season with Covid, he was shocking overall but you’ll still find some great performances in that time.

Since December I count 34 games he played in. There’s a handful of poor performances in there. The rest good/great. How will people remember his season? Not like that that is for sure.

That being said if he leaves, so be it. The fans hate him. He may not want to be around that environment and he’s given five years and got nothing but flack. He will need replacing but we may well find someone who fits the team shape better.

Better players than Pogba have left and we’ve been fine, just generally we haven’t been so shite when they’ve been leaving.

 

[Oranges038]

You don't know that. Sometimes it's not about lack of desire or lazyness. Nani for example as brilliant as he was for 1.5 years, lacked the mentality of a top top player, I thought, which held him back from being one of the great wingers over a 7-8 period (certainly had the talent). Things like that sometimes don't improve despite your best efforts. The mind is as much as tool as a the body and not everybody can conquer all aspects of it.

His overall game has significantly improved, he improved a lot at Juventus and I can tell you that the current version of Pogba is far better and more complete than the first version of Pogba that played for France.

If he apllied himself in the same manner as DeBruyne, you would be seeing a Pogba that would be easily the best midfielder in the world.

He's got all the physical and technical attributes to the best midfielder in the game. Even when he was 17/18 you could see the quality. But, he still has all the same flaws in his overall game. He hasn't improved significantly in ten years. That's on him.

 

[TsuWave]

I like Pogba, but he’s not as gifted technically as KDB.

this is just wrong

 

[TsuWave]

Sir Alex allowed him to leave the first time, and I'd wager he'd probably sell him now if he were the manager..

Sir Alex was desperate to keep him to the point he sent both Rio and Evra to his house to convince him to stay. All have been on record stating such.

It’s literally one google search away. Why does this myth still persist when all involved have said Pogba was “begged” to stay and decided against it?

https://www.espn.in/football/league-name/story/2060596/headline

 

[JPRouve]

If he apllied himself in the same manner as DeBruyne, you would be seeing a Pogba that would be easily the best midfielder in the world.

He's got all the physical and technical attributes to the best midfielder in the game. Even when he was 17/18 you could see the quality. But, he still has all the same flaws in his overall game. He hasn't improved significantly in ten years. That's on him.

That's not how sports work, players have limitations in particularly when it comes to how they read the game. I will alway remind people of a comment that Klose made about what LVG demanded from him, he explained that while he was perfectly able to see what LVG was seeing on tape, he couldn't see it when on the field. Players aren't machines that you can reprogram, most players can't get rid of their flaws, they can't change the way they see or read the game.

 

[Oranges038]

That's not how sports work, players have limitations in particularly when it comes to how they read the game. I will alway remind people of a comment that Klose made about what LVG demanded from him, he explained that while he was perfectly able to see what LVG was seeing on tape, he couldn't see it when on the field. Players aren't machines that you can reprogram, most players can't get rid of their flaws, they can't change the way they see or read the game.

So he's limited? But before you said he has significantly improved. Which is it?

Everybody has the capacity to improve and learn from mistakes over time through experience and application. It doesn't matter if you work as a surgeon, farmer, stacking shelves, electrician, accountant, software engineer, physio, coach, mechanic, artist or a high level athlete. There are always ways to better yourself and address weaknesses in your abilities.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, he is. I just think when you look at the skillset he possesses, he hasn't apllied himself fully to improving his game and addressing his weaknesses. He still has the same flaws in his is overall game that he had 10 years ago. That is why he still divides opinion so much.