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MyOnlySolskjaer

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Full Name: Paul Labile Pogba
Date of Birth: Mar 15, 1993 (27)
Nationality: France

Height: 191cm
Position: Midfielder - Central Midfield
Foot: Both
Player Agent: Mino Raiola
Squad Number: #6
Joined: Aug 9, 2016
Contract until: 30.06.2021
Contract option: Option for a further year
Outfitter: Adidas​
 
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Walters_19_MuFc

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Hardly beyond the fecking realms of possibility, is it?
Guess you missed the bit where it says option for a further year.

Contract option: Option for a further year
 

TsuWave

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Hopefully new contract announced soon.

Paul Labile fecking Pogba :drool:
 

Rolaholic

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Some wholesome content do contrast from the usual toxicity in here

 

jem

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Some wholesome content do contrast from the usual toxicity in here

He does seem like a lovely fellow - perhaps a bit immature at times - but a good guy, nonetheless. I'm thrilled that he's staying.
 

roonster09

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I don't understand why a player who took shot which had probability (xg) of 0.02 is praised for CL final performance, lost possession 12 times, playing some unnecessary long passes which put teammate under pressure and passes which put teammates under pressure :D
 

Zehner

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I don't understand why a player who took shot which had probability (xg) of 0.02 is praised for CL final performance, lost possession 12 times, playing some unnecessary long passes which put teammate under pressure and passes which put teammates under pressure :D

The shot Thiago took in the beginning was very stupid but still more likely to go in than Pogba's giving the angle, running direction etc. Still, didn't understand why he did that, rather atypical for him. That aside, Thiago had an almost perfect game and retained possession very well. He wasn't wasteful. I mean, there are many videos of every Thiago touch in the final out there, feel free to point out the scenes in which you think he was similarly wasteful and we compare them to Pogba's against Sevilla. It's also kind of unfair to compare the Sevilla match with the final of the UCL which was an incredibly intensive games with very, very tight spaces in midfield. For Pogba, 88% passing accuracy is an outlier in a positive sense, for Thiago it's one in a negative way. Given how many easy passes Pogba gave away, he could've easily been at 93+%.

By the way, you can also read that in their stats for the whole season. Going by league stats (the most complete on whoscored): Thiago this season is at 90.5% passing accuracy and 0.8 dispossessions per game, Pogba is at 85.5% and 2 dispossesions per game. That's especially impressive since Thiago dribbles 3 times per game and Pogba 1.7 times. Pogba also takes 1.4 shots per game, Thiago 0.7.

So if you want to suggest that they are similar, you're wrong. Thiago has a fundamentally different profile to Pogba.
 

roonster09

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The shot Thiago took in the beginning was very stupid but still more likely to go in than Pogba's giving the angle, running direction etc. Still, didn't understand why he did that, rather atypical for him. That aside, Thiago had an almost perfect game and retained possession very well. He wasn't wasteful. I mean, there are many videos of every Thiago touch in the final out there, feel free to point out the scenes in which you think he was similarly wasteful and we compare them to Pogba's against Sevilla. It's also kind of unfair to compare the Sevilla match with the final of the UCL which was an incredibly intensive games with very, very tight spaces in midfield. For Pogba, 88% passing accuracy is an outlier in a positive sense, for Thiago it's one in a negative way. Given how many easy passes Pogba gave away, he could've easily been at 93+%.

By the way, you can also read that in their stats for the whole season. Going by league stats (the most complete on whoscored): Thiago this season is at 90.5% passing accuracy and 0.8 dispossessions per game, Pogba is at 85.5% and 2 dispossesions per game. That's especially impressive since Thiago dribbles 3 times per game and Pogba 1.7 times. Pogba also takes 1.4 shots per game, Thiago 0.7.

So if you want to suggest that they are similar, you're wrong. Thiago has a fundamentally different profile to Pogba.
Dude, it was a tongue in cheek post, no need to get worked up for everything.

I saw his every touch video and can come up with similar stupid post but I won't as it's stupid.

Re bold part, finally you got it. Hope you stop bringing Thiago, Kroos, Xavi into further discussions.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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I don't understand why a player who took shot which had probability (xg) of 0.02 is praised for CL final performance, lost possession 12 times, playing some unnecessary long passes which put teammate under pressure and passes which put teammates under pressure :D
?
 

El-Manos

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I think he’ll renew to be honest. Even Raiola is giving positive vibes which is rare.
 

Zehner

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Dude, it was a tongue in cheek post, no need to get worked up for everything.

I saw his every touch video and can come up with similar stupid post but I won't as it's stupid.
Sorry, assumed you were in for a reasoned argument for once. Should've known better I guess. Just wanted to point out that Pogba's and Thiago's playing styles are as far apart as it gets.
 

roonster09

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Sorry, assumed you were in for a reasoned argument for once. Should've known better I guess. Just wanted to point out that Pogba's and Thiago's playing styles are as far apart as it gets.
With you, with posts like he took 0.02 xg shot ffs ? :lol:
 

Zehner

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With you, with posts like he took 0.02 xg shot ffs ? :lol:
So you're arguing that it was the right decision to take that shot? Or think that it would go in more than 2 times in 100 shots on average?
 

roonster09

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So you're arguing that it was the right decision to take that shot? Or think that it would go in more than 2 times in 100 shots on average?
I'm arguing it's a stupid point to hold it against the players, just like it's stupid point to hold all the failed passes against the players.
 

Zehner

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I'm arguing it's a stupid point to hold it against the players, just like it's stupid point to hold all the failed passes against the players.
And that's where we differ. The avoidance of such possession losses to me is one of the most crucial qualities of a midfielder and that's why I'm not a fan of Pogba at all.
 

roonster09

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And that's where we differ. The avoidance of such possession losses to me is one of the most crucial qualities of a midfielder and that's why I'm not a fan of Pogba at all.
And that's why I didn't quote you or tag you as it's just pointless to and fro, repeating the same posts all the time.
 

Zehner

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And that's why I didn't quote you or tag you as it's just pointless to and fro, repeating the same posts all the time.
If so then every discussion in this board is pointless. It's all about perspectives and opinions. I for one still don't understand how you can just ignore such stuff as dumb passes or taking shots unlikely to go in. When a player of my team takes a shot from that position I'm yelling at the TV because it robbed us from a potentially better goal scoring opportunity and gifted the opponent possession without "paying" for it through exhausting pressing or a risky tackle that may leave the defense exposed etc. You rarely explain why you see stuff that way, most of the time you simply ridicule without substantial arguments.
 

roonster09

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If so then every discussion in this board is pointless.
No, it's just pointless with specific posters. Those are dumb passes going by dumb analysis, micro analyzing everything to come up with how he should have made different decision based on hindsight and outcome.

I have already explained in the other thread and I'm not going to post those again and again. I have even posted the link few posts above, you can go through all that and also @Rozay posted in more detailed way anyways in the same thread.

You just ignore all that and keep coming out with narrow view of how game should be played.
 

Zehner

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No, it's just pointless with specific posters. Those are dumb passes going by dumb analysis, micro analyzing everything to come up with how he should have made different decision based on hindsight and outcome.

I have already explained in the other thread and I'm not going to post those again and again. I have even posted the link few posts above, you can go through all that and also @Rozay posted in more detailed way anyways in the same thread.

You just ignore all that and keep coming out with narrow view of how game should be played.
Micro analyzing maybe but not based on hindsight. In a way I'm criticizing him for his risk management. He makes too many plays where the probability of a possession loss it too high and often you can tell in advance that the ball will be lost when he's just about to execute the motion. The typical situations in which you want to shout in a players ear "no, don't do that" the moment you realize what he's intending to do. Or he's exposing himself to pressure unnecessarily by allowing opponent's to get in close proximity without need.

I get that this comes across as if I just want him to play a certain brand of football which I happen to prefer but that's not the case. It's clear that certain philosophies require midfielders to play riskier than other tactical setups do but Pogba overreaches. At times his decisions are just nonsensical in every brand of football there is and I don't see such stuff from any other midfielder, at least not at this frequency.
 

He'sRaldo

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Micro analyzing maybe but not based on hindsight. In a way I'm criticizing him for his risk management. He makes too many plays where the probability of a possession loss it too high and often you can tell in advance that the ball will be lost when he's just about to execute the motion. The typical situations in which you want to shout in a players ear "no, don't do that" the moment you realize what he's intending to do.
Sounds like you're describing Bruno here. Also sounds like your ideal player would be Lingard with his safe, "correct" passing.

All to say sometimes it doesn't matter as long as it's a net positive. Like Bruno's progressive passes or Pogba's longballs.
 

Zehner

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Sounds like you're describing Bruno here.

Also sounds like your ideal player would be Lingard with his safe, "correct" passing.
Nah, my ideal players in midfield are Modric, Kroos, Iniesta, Xavi, Thiago, Verratti, Gündogan, David Silva, Bernardo Silva, de Jong and the likes :)

It's also about progressive, subtle passing and pressing resistance, you know.
 

roonster09

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Micro analyzing maybe but not based on hindsight. In a way I'm criticizing him for his risk management. He makes too many plays where the probability of a possession loss it too high and often you can tell in advance that the ball will be lost when he's just about to execute the motion. The typical situations in which you want to shout in a players ear "no, don't do that" the moment you realize what he's intending to do. Or he's exposing himself to pressure unnecessarily by allowing opponent's to get in close proximity without need.

I get that this comes across as if I just want him to play a certain brand of football which I happen to prefer but that's not the case. It's clear that certain philosophies require midfielders to play riskier than other tactical setups do but Pogba overreaches. At times his decisions are just nonsensical in every brand of football there is and I don't see such stuff from any other midfielder, at least not at this frequency.
He takes risks, when he pulls them off we create chances. In the same video you posted, he lost possession and he pulled off those same moves which helped us in creating chances. I don't want Matic to try these as he doesn't have skills to do that but Pogba should as he can.

Like I said, me, @Rozay and few others said same things in previous thread but you keep repeating the same arguments. It doesn't make any sense to repeat the same things again and again.
 
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He'sRaldo

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Nah, my ideal players in midfield are Modric, Kroos, Iniesta, Xavi, Thiago, Verratti, Gündogan, David Silva, Bernardo Silva, de Jong and the likes :)

It's also about progressive, subtle passing and pressing resistance, you know.
I see the general trend with the preferences.

So what do you make of players like Bruno Fernandes or KDB? Despite not being your ideal type of player, aren't they still good effective players?
 

roonster09

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Sounds like you're describing Bruno here. Also sounds like your ideal player would be Lingard with his safe, "correct" passing.

All to say sometimes it doesn't matter as long as it's a net positive. Like Bruno's progressive passes or Pogba's longballs.
Cleverley :drool:

89-90% pass completion all the time at ManUtd, what a gem of a midfielder who played in wrong era.
 

He'sRaldo

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Cleverley :drool:

89-90% pass completion all the time at ManUtd, what a gem of a midfielder who played in wrong era.
Between the two of Cleverly and Lingard, we've had enough correct decisions to last a lifetime.
 

Zehner

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He takes risks, when he pulls them off we create chances. In the same video you posted, he lost possession and he pulled off those same moves which helped us in creating chances. I don't want Matic to try these as he doesn't have skills to do that but Pogba should as he can.

Like I said, me and @Rozay said same things in previous thread but you keep repeating the same arguments. It doesn't make any sense to repeat the same things again and again.
My point is that he can cut away the bullshit without affecting his end product too much. That's a question of maturity and decision making. I'm convinced he can make just as many great progressive passes and play just as many through balls without all the unnecessary possession losses. In the end, it's not like his wastefulness pays off since the likes of Kroos and co. (and that has to be his benchmark) aren't that much worse in the creating department although they give away possession not even half as often. That's what I mean with "unnecessary". I'm not arguing that he should stop playing these passes/making those dribbles, I argue he should stop attempting them in the wrong situations and continue doing so in the right ones.



I see the general trend with the preferences.

So what do you make of players like Bruno Fernandes or KDB? Despite not being your ideal type of player, aren't they still good effective players?
They have different roles for me. Take de Bruyne for example. He's nominally a CM but his role in that City team is more reminiscent of Messi or Neymar for me. I once watched a Tifo analysis on YouTube on the question where Messi would play if he were to join City and they answered in de Bruyne's place - and that was exactly my thought. Messi and Neymar have free roles at their teams. They are allowed to lose the ball a lot due to their sheer ability to make stuff happen. But if you squeeze in too many of those players in one team, things fall apart.

This is especially important if you face a good opponent. The CL final was a perfect example of that. Playing a team like Bayern with someone like Thiago in midfield is incredibly hard. They exhaust you and you have to put im much effort to get the ball from them. Every loss of possession really hurts in such a setup since you invested energy and concentration to get the ball and when you're wasteful with it, they suffocate you. You need to make successful interceptions and pressing count. So when you risk to lose it, there should at least be something to win and I don't think Pogba got that balance right a lot of the time.
 

roonster09

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My point is that he can cut away the bullshit without affecting his end product too much. That's a question of maturity and decision making. I'm convinced he can make just as many great progressive passes and play just as many through balls without all the unnecessary possession losses. In the end, it's not like his wastefulness pays off since the likes of Kroos and co. (and that has to be his benchmark) aren't that much worse in the creating department although they give away possession not even half as often. That's what I mean with "unnecessary". I'm not arguing that he should stop playing these passes/making those dribbles, I argue he should stop attempting them in the wrong situations and continue doing so in the right ones.
You think it's unnecessary, others think it's not. As simple as that.
 

He'sRaldo

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They have different roles for me. Take de Bruyne for example. He's nominally a CM but his role in that City team is more reminiscent of Messi or Neymar for me. I once watched a Tifo analysis on YouTube on the question where Messi would play if he were to join City and they answered in de Bruyne's place - and that was exactly my thought. Messi and Neymar have free roles at their teams. They are allowed to lose the ball a lot due to their sheer ability to make stuff happen. But if you squeeze in too many of those players in one team, things fall apart.

This is especially important if you face a good opponent. The CL final was a perfect example of that. Playing a team like Bayern with someone like Thiago in midfield is incredibly hard. They exhaust you and you have to put im much effort to get the ball from them. Every loss of possession really hurts in such a setup since you invested energy and concentration to get the ball and when you're wasteful with it, they suffocate you. You need to make successful interceptions and pressing count. So when you risk to lose it, there should at least be something to win and I don't think Pogba got that balance right a lot of the time.
In the same vein, I think Pogba doesn't have the same role as the players you mentioned. I think you even said it yourself that someone like Thiago has a fundamentally different role and playing style from him.

With that said I agree that he can continue to improve. Within the context of his own role in the team at Man Utd.
 

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You think it's unnecessary, others think it's not. As simple as that.
That's the question I wanted to discuss. I mean, what are we here for if not for discussions?

Anyways, if it wasn't unnecessary, it would show in his output. See, de Bruyne, his passing accuracy is even lower than Pogba's and he's dispossessed almost as often, but it pays off since the guy makes key passes en masse. Pogba's key pass stats are a little bit better than those of Kroos and the likes but nowhere near de Bruyne's - yet his passing accuracy is closer to de Bruyne's than those of Thiago, Kroos, Modric etc. And yes, it's always hard to compare between different styles, but the top midfielders in the world all have similar profiles. And those stats completely support the impression I get of him by watching him play.
 

roonster09

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That's the question I wanted to discuss. I mean, what are we here for if not for discussions?

Anyways, if it wasn't unnecessary, it would show in his output. See, de Bruyne, his passing accuracy is even lower than Pogba's and he's dispossessed almost as often, but it pays off since the guy makes key passes en masse. Pogba's key pass stats are a little bit better than those of Kroos and the likes but nowhere near de Bruyne's - yet his passing accuracy is closer to de Bruyne's than those of Thiago, Kroos, Modric etc. And yes, it's always hard to compare between different styles, but the top midfielders in the world all have similar profiles. And those stats completely support the impression I get of him by watching him play.
He has scored as many goals as Modric + Kroos combined since he joined ManUtd and as many if not more assists than both of them. Doesn't mean they are poor players, it's just that they have different roles and style of play.

How many midfielders apart from KdB contribute to goals and assists like Pogba does? He has around 50 goals + assists in league alone in 3 seasons, that's a ridiculous number for a midfielder.

KdB is the best midfielder in the world and he loses possession many times and takes many shots with xg of 0.02 or even lower. Means nothing as every player have different roles.