[Jeppers7]

I’m reading ‘he did good things but…’.

He gave a fecking masterclass. And I don’t know what you’re on about anyway, literally just read up, there is a debate going on about tonight’s performance right above you.

He’s a bit like that. Likes to play the old ‘your seeing things that aren’t there’ all the time. It’s pretty boring.

Pogba fans are like this. I'm not his biggest fan and even I said he played well. He seems to for France.

Doesn't detract from the fact he's been an incredibly frustrating player to watch in a red shirt. I couldn't give two craps about France tbh. And he did, despite playing well tonight, cost them a cheap goal which he often does for us. Losing the ball cheaply in the last few mins to set up a counter attack isnt his fault apparently though.

……Far from it

 

[jesperjaap]

I think the simple thing here is he had a godo tournament for FRANCE with some magical moments, but still had some costly errors....but the £400k contract he is supposedly after is for the next four years of him performing for US. SO just scroll to the top of hte page and you see he has a season average rating of 6 out of 10 and it would probably be similar for his whole time here. I think thats actually a little harsh and its nearer 7 personally..........but that simply isnt an £85m player and a player you pay £400k per week to stay

 

[Ali Dia]

When Fred would lose the ball and the opposition would score you would be in there defending him. Why the different take now, it's essentially the same thing isn't it?

Fact is some just don't like him, and that's that. Without a doubt other players wouldn't be scrutinized to the same level after that kind of performance. Unfortunate for Pogba, but there's little he can do to change it.

Its not that. I’m just wondering how we can fit him and Bruno in and stay defensively solid enough.

 

[littleman]

Pundits like Neville and Keane are part of the reason why Pogba is so unfairly treated. There's plenty of listeners who can't form their own opinion and just parrot what these pundits say. If Keane and Neville's football insights were so valuable and profound, they wouldn't be sat in an ITV studio. They'd be managing a football team. Oh wait, they both tried that and failed horribly.

This is bizarre, because if we put you in charge of a football club chances are it'll break a record in getting relegated in consecutive seasons.

This is also true of most posters here in the board, if not virtually all.

 

[Sultan]

What’s so hard to understand? France were 4-1 to win the tournament. Switzerland were probably about 40-1. They shouldn’t be conceding 3 goals to them with Pogba Kante (who is supposedly the magic key to covering for Pogba) and Rabiot. They were invisible defensively. It doesn’t matter who you put beside Pogba or who he’s playing against. He’s always liable to switch off or get robbed and to cost you defensively at some point. That is also an ever present danger in the many games where he isn’t as amazing going forward as tonight. Just doing his thing in the middle. It’s always a danger in the background. He needs a free role and we can’t afford to give him one in the PL no matter who else is beside him in the middle

He's won countless championships, cups, world cup playing in similar systems. No one has complained about his defending in previous tournaments. Too much is made of analysis when football is about small margins and great moments from players like Pogba. He's been France's best player with Benzema. There are defenders to defend and Pogba is not a defender. Give the guy some credit. Admittedly, he simply can't be good at everything.

 

[Mainoldo]

That first sentence is exactly why both he and Fernandes are not world class. World class players dont have sloppy play in there games, certainyl not as consistently as Pogba has for 5years and Fernandes has for 6months. We simply label players world class far too easily, having world class ability and performing as a world class player are two different things. Its not even a question og being super efficient and tight defensively, he is POOR defensively in his own third of the pitch both with and without the ball, still often naive....he isnt a number 10 he is a centrla midfielder that we are looking to give a £400k a week contract to play in a double pivot...I dont buy it at all.

I am not denying he had an excellent game this evening, my point is simply that it wasnt faultless and some kind of all time gret performance which some are suggesting.

To answer your quetion though...Kimmich is 8/9 out of 10 week 9 games in 10 for his club and both creates and defends superbly, for us Pogba is 8/9 out of 10 probably more like 3/4 games tops out of 10, that is the difference, not ability but consistency of performance within a game but more importantly over a season and not one season he has been here has he been world class for it, whether or not he has been world class for France is a different debate, he hasnt for us and simply doesnt warrant a new contract for £80/100m....why are people saying throw gold at him for his performances for France, they are irrelevant or Xhaka would be getting a similar contract as he is usually really good for Switzerland and for me just pipped Pogbas performance tis evening

Name 5 world class players please.

 

[jesperjaap]

Just earned a new deal with us, Woody getting it done as we speak

He earns a new deal for us by performing for us not France. I assume then that Arsenal are now cancelling the sale of Xhaka to Roma then?

 

[El Jefe]

France's best player tonight. His passing and goals were tremendous.

And yet his team is out.

It's not Pogba's fault, of course. I don't think even Souness could make that case.

But it does beg the question: Does making Pogba your main man lead to enough of a benefit that it offsets what you lose from others. That's a very live debate because many fans want us to change formation so Pogba can be better. Even though it will definitely make Bruno less influential.

Pogba did, IMO, 80-90% of what you'd want him to do in most games this tournament. Yet his team won once, couldn't even beat Hungary and are out.

It's not his fault but, to me, it does suggest building the midfield around him doesn't result in such a huge boost that it would compensate from moving Bruno further away from goal.

It's easy to say this when Mbappe doesn't have his shooting boots on. I don't even think it was a case of Pogba being the main man, he's just the one who consistently showed up.

 

[littleman]

Absolutely this!

The narrative has been set. There's always ifs and buts somewhere when judging his performances.

I don't get this. EVERYONE in football is not just judged by their latest performance but also the history of their performances.

This is an absurd defense of Pogba

 

[FootyGirl88]

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[jesperjaap]

Popba was outstanding! He’s always been immensely talented, sometimes wrong attitude, but pray we can keep him.
On the other hand both Varane and Pau Torres were more than a little lindelofesque.

I thought the game against Germany Varane was outstanding, but he has been pretty average since. No doubting he is an excellent defender but at the risk of being crucified, has the fantastic partnership he has had with Ramos for so many years possilby got him individually slightly over hyped? I felt a bit like that with Vidic here, obviously a very good defender, but it was the partnership that made him so successful and stand out.

Ive no doubt Varane would be a very good signing, still not sure he should be our top target though.....which god forbid is Torres, dont get the fuss about him whatsoever, good ball playing defender, very average defensively though, really struggled in the air too tongiht, if he is anythign like that in the premiership he would get battered

 

[Holocene]

This is bizarre, because if we put you in charge of a football club chances are it'll break a record in getting relegated in consecutive seasons.

This is also true of most posters here in the board, if not virtually all.

I'm not being paid for my football insights on national television. I'm just a fan on an internet forum. I'm talking about people forming their opinions on players based on what these pundits are saying. When they clearly have an agenda against Pogba.

 

[Marwood]

I’m reading ‘he did good things but…’.

He gave a fecking masterclass. And I don’t know what you’re on about anyway, literally just read up, there is a debate going on about tonight’s performance right above you.

He’s a bit like that. Likes to play the old ‘your seeing things that aren’t there’ all the time. It’s pretty boring.

……Far from it

Simple one to clear up guys. Quote me all these posts saying Pogba played anything less than well.

Or alternatively drop the victim thing and give the CAF a break. To me the forum unanimously agrees he had a good game. Even those who think he was sloppy for the goal still think he played well.

You're creating a division in the thread that doesn't exist. Not tonight it doesn't anyway.

Pogba was great tonight. Enjoy it.

 

[Sultan]

I don't get this. EVERYONE in football is not just judged by their latest performance but also the history of their performances.

This is an absurd defense of Pogba

His past performances can't have been that bad for him to be such a decorated player at both international level and league football.

 

[Ali Dia]

He's won countless championships, cups, world cup playing in similar systems. No one has complained about his defending in previous tournaments. Too much is made of analysis when football is about small margins and great moments from players like Poga. He's been France's best player with Benzema. There are defenders to defend and Pogba is not a defender. Give the guy some credit. Admittedly, he simply can't be good at everything.

But a PL central midfielder needs to at least be solid defensively or reliable to track back and stay organised at the very very least. You just don’t get that consistently with him. Sometimes he will and sometimes he won’t. He can absolutely destroy teams on his own and then there are games where he plays a little within himself but the fact remains, it doesn’t matter who’s in beside him or how you set up, he’s liable to switch off and cost you going backwards. I get his fans frustrations tonight. He was the best player on the park but he was also part of a world class midfield unit against a relatively poor team and they were basically invisible in the defensive phase when all they had to do was shut up shop and dig in. Not pogbas fault but a reminder of what it’s been like here too at times. He plays almost a free role in midfield…. It’s so risky!

 

[Dve]

Pogba has been this tournament's best player, and he was fantastic also tonight.

 

[littleman]

His past performances can't have been that bad for him to be such a decorated player at both international level and league football.

Has anyone said they're bad..? Or just that Pogba is inconsistent? Or that Pogba is not WC?

This exaggeration to defend Pogba is ridiculous.


Roy Keane today:

I'd be looking at the goal they conceded in injury time, where he was really sloppy in midfield. That's the bit I would be critical of.
That seems harsh because he has done some brilliant stuff tonight. There is no doubting Paul's quality, but it is just the other stuff, his maturity.
We've mentioned all that. United have had all the problems as well, can he play in a two in midfield, he probably can't because he doesn't have the discipline.
He was at his best in Juventus where he had a bit more freedom and was probably surrounded by more men and characters, they had better quality players.
Even tonight, he leaves you frustrated. For all of the brilliant qualities going forward, I still think he lacks the discipline defensively.
That's the key (to go to the next level). The top player do it week in, week out. Paul doesn't do that.

Vieria today:

I think if he played with somebody like Roy he would be a different player. What he needs is somebody to put him under pressure, to be on his back and be demanding on him.
If you had been behind him and been consistent, put pressure on him every single day, it takes time but with the personalities around him he would improve.
Obviously it is frustrating because he can give much more than what he gives to the team.

 

[Zlatan 7]

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And give the ball away that cost the equalising goal, shame that

 

[Zlatan 7]

I'm not being paid for my football insights on national television. I'm just a fan on an internet forum. I'm talking about people forming their opinions on players based on what these pundits are saying. When they clearly have an agenda against Pogba.

Viera has an agenda against pogba?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Pogba has been this tournament's best player, and he was fantastic also tonight.

He was absolutely brilliant.

 

[Holocene]

Viera has an agenda against pogba?

I'm talking about Neville and Keane.

 

[Andersonson]

He was fantastic tonight. That goal, those passes and what a penalty.

Wish he could play like that for us

 

[Zlatan 7]

Simple one to clear up guys. Quote me all these posts saying Pogba played anything less than well.

Or alternatively drop the victim thing and give the CAF a break. To me the forum unanimously agrees he had a good game. Even those who think he was sloppy for the goal still think he played well.

You're creating a division in the thread that doesn't exist. Not tonight it doesn't anyway.

Pogba was great tonight. Enjoy it.

Yep, exactly. Two things can be thought at the same time, he was absolute class and his passing was a dream but he’s also sloppy in possession now and again and it caught him out and led to a goal. They are simple facts

 

[Zlatan 7]

I'm talking about Neville and Keane.

But viera agreed with Keane

 

[zurnalist]

100% tackles won
92% passing accuracy
88 touches
11 ball recoveries
5/6 take-ons completed (most)
4 chances created (=most)
3 shots
3 fouls won
1 goal
0 x dribbled past

That's a phenomenal performance and anyone whining about it is just obssessively toxic.

 

[Holocene]

But viera agreed with Keane

Okay? Like I just said, I'm talking about Keane and Neville. I have no idea what Vieira's view of Pogba is apart from what he mentioned tonight.

 

[sherrinford]

What’s so hard to understand? France were 4-1 to win the tournament. Switzerland were probably about 40-1. They shouldn’t be conceding 3 goals to them with Pogba Kante (who is supposedly the magic key to covering for Pogba) and Rabiot. They were invisible defensively. It doesn’t matter who you put beside Pogba or who he’s playing against. He’s always liable to switch off or get robbed and to cost you defensively at some point. That is also an ever present danger in the many games where he isn’t as amazing going forward as tonight. Just doing his thing in the middle. It’s always a danger in the background. He needs a free role and we can’t afford to give him one in the PL no matter who else is beside him in the middle

Eh? Rabiot played left back/ wing back.

Pogba is not particularly worse defensively than other players of his ilk (as a ball-playing deeper midfielder) - players like Kroos or Pirlo are/ were much more of a liability.

 

[Rozay]

Yep, exactly. Two things can be thought at the same time, he was absolute class and his passing was a dream but he’s also sloppy in possession now and again and it caught him out and led to a goal. They are simple facts

I think that ‘sloppy in possession’ is harsh, that’s all we’re saying. Just look at his statistics for tonight. It would suggest he was anything but sloppy in possession. What he was, was tackled once. And not in a situation where you say ‘he should easily keep the ball there’ either. He had the ball less than a second. It is unfortunate for him that Switzerland scored from the attack they built, but when they got the ball, they were in their own half and France were in shape.

 

[TsuWave]

People quoting pundits to validate their views are so shameless

 

[Bullhitter]

What a player, he's an absolute joy to watch in a team that plays with an actual structure and patterns.

 

[spiriticon]

He was fantastic tonight. That goal, those passes and what a penalty.

Wish he could play like that for us

He does. Sometimes.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Okay? Like I just said, I'm talking about Keane and Neville. I have no idea what Vieira's view of Pogba is apart from what he mentioned tonight.

Because you mentioned people based their opinions on what the pundits said and they have an agenda against pogba, when what was said by Keane and viera tonight was bang on

 

[littleman]

Eh? Rabiot played left back/ wing back.

Pogba is not particularly worse defensively than other players of his ilk (as a ball-playing deeper midfielder) - players like Kroos or Pirlo are/ were much more of a liability.

Pogba's ilk is ball playing deeper midfielder...? He plays like a forward, in a roaming role

And seriously, Kroos and Pirlo do not lose balls at the same rate

 

[Mainoldo]

Has anyone said they're bad..? Or just that Pogba is inconsistent? Or that Pogba is not WC?

This exaggeration to defend Pogba is ridiculous.


Roy Keane today:


Vieria today:

That’s all good and that. But could Zidane defend. I’ll wait for anyone to tell me

 

[Zlatan 7]

I think that ‘sloppy in possession’ is harsh, that’s all we’re saying. Just look at his statistics for tonight. It would suggest he was anything but sloppy in possession. What he was, was tackled once. And not in a situation where you say ‘he should easily keep the ball there’ either. He had the ball less than a second. It is unfortunate for him that Switzerland scored from the attack they built, but when they got the ball, they were in their own half and France were in shape.

I agree with you throughout the game and France were naive as hell having 6 players in the opposition half 3-2 on 90 minutes, he simply can’t give the ball away there at that time of the match in my opinion, that’s all. He should know better than that.

 

[Dve]

What a player, he's an absolute joy to watch in a team that plays with an actual structure and patterns.

Please elaborate. What patterns did you see?

 

[Holocene]

Because you mentioned people based their opinions on what the pundits said and they have an agenda against pogba, when what was said by Keane and viera tonight was bang on

I was talking about Neville and Keane having an agenda. Like I said, I have no idea what Vieira thinks of Pogba. Just because those pundits were once fantastic players, it doesn't mean they're right about Pogba.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Has anyone said they're bad..? Or just that Pogba is inconsistent? Or that Pogba is not WC?

This exaggeration to defend Pogba is ridiculous.


Roy Keane today:


Vieria today:

What more he should do? He put it on plate for Mbappe multiple times. It's amazing how a narrative gets built and then everyone just toes the same line.

There is no exaggeration to defend Pogba. In the same match he won the possession in midfield like he lost for the goal and played a fantastic pass which Mbappe missed. Players can lose ball in football. Roy Keane and Patrick lost ball in the middle of the park. It's not something that only happens with Pogba. But he gets scrutinized to hell for that. If you watch the highlight, the swiss player who actually dispossessed Pogba was not in his sight. It's not like he was dribbling and lost the ball.

The fact that we are criticizing him after such a fantastic performance is ridiculous

 

[Zlatan 7]

[

I was talking about Neville and Keane having an agenda. Like I said, I have no idea what Vieira thinks of Pogba. Just because those pundits were once fantastic players, it doesn't mean they're right about Pogba.

oh right, I seen you say pundits, not specific people

 

[Holocene]

[

oh right, I seen you say pundits, not specific people

No worries. I probably should have been clearer with my point.