[spiriticon]

He is But most great midfielder are like Zidane. You have to give them balance. We just decided not to.

Well at a big club like United, it's not all about Pogba unfortunately. We don't play Pogba + 10 Pog cheerleaders. It's about the team.

France decided to play to his strengths and look where they ended up defensively.

And Poggers, as good as he is, isn't quite on Zidanes level either.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Yep just like Bruno’s medal count. Nothing.

Interesting to discover which players are and aren't allowed to give the ball away cheaply

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Do you think he had good Euro or bad/average one?

Very good. Not surprised in the slightest.

 

[Rolaholic]

Interesting to discover which players are and aren't allowed to give the ball away cheaply

All the best playmakers in the world anually top the charts for turnovers/giveaways but it only seems to define and erase all the good for a certain few in the eyes of fans

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Yep just like Bruno’s medal count. Nothing.

Oliver Giroud must be better than Messi, Cavani, Aguero and Lewa etc then as he's won the world cup. Ridiculous post.

Bruno has come to United and outperformed Pogba has no matter how much you cry about it. It's just a fact.

Pogba has been great for France. Go support them then.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Pogba is quality, he played out of his skin last night, he was a reason France scored three goals and should have scored more, I hope he stays at United.

and after saying all that I can still acknowledge he made a mistake at a crucial time of the match in a critical area. As I’ve said before, both things can be true without any kind of agenda.

 

[Mainoldo]

Well at a big club like United, it's not all about Pogba unfortunately. We don't play Pogba + 10 Pog cheerleaders. It's about the team.

France decided to play to his strengths and look where they ended up defensively.

And Poggers, as good as he is, isn't quite on Zidanes level either.

True let’s be Bruno’s cheerleaders and win nothing whilst playing crap football. Great times.

 

[Mainoldo]

Oliver Giroud must be better than Messi, Cavani, Aguero and Lewa etc then as he's won the world cup. Ridiculous post.

Bruno has come to United and outperformed Pogba has no matter how much you cry about it. It's just a fact.

Pogba has been great for France. Go support them then.

Is it really though???

Do we want to do a trophy analyst on your stupid point and compare Giroud’s medals to Messi, Aguero, Cavani etc.

Let me know I have time today.

 

[spiriticon]

True let’s be Bruno’s cheerleaders and win nothing whilst playing crap football. Great times.

Well we won nothing of note deploying cheerleaders for Pogba for 5 years before Bruno arrived so I'm not sure what your point is. It's not like we were wheeling in those Champion's League trophies by the wheelbarrow.

Oh I'm sorry yes we won the BTEC Europe Cup and the Milk Cup whilst playing crap football. Great times.

 

[Rozay]

The main reason that people will harp on about a single incident like this with Pogba, is because it happens time and time again. You can say all you want about his performance last night, I have already said it was excellent, but not even the most ardent Pogba supporter can say that he hasn't made that sort of mistake over and over for Utd. KDB simply doesn't do that on a regular basis, so why would anyone talk about it to the same extent? Also, any player in the world makes that mistake that leads directly to a goal is going to have something said about it, let's be honest.

It wasn’t a ‘mistake’. Spain’s goalkeeper made a mistake.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Is it really though???

Do we want to do a trophy analyst on your stupid point and compare Giroud’s medals to Messi, Aguero, Cavani etc.

Let me know I have time today.

If you're arguing Pogba has been better for United than Bruno has been then you need serious serious help my friend. It's not even a close contest and 90% of our fanbase would be on my side.

You just can't seem to distinguish between having natural ability which Pogba has in spades no doubt and actually delivering for us. Pogba has been a disappointing signing for us for a wide variety of reasons. Not all his fault but he's definitely got to take some of the blame. His effort when in a Blue French shirt is noticeably different.

 

[Mainoldo]

Well we won nothing of note deploying cheerleaders for Pogba for 5 years before Bruno arrived so I'm not sure what your point is. It's not like we were wheeling in those Champion's League trophies by the wheelbarrow.

Oh I'm sorry yes we won the BTEC Europe Cup and the Milk Cup whilst playing crap football. Great times.

Yep so I heard 2 medals vs 0 medals whilst still still not finishing higher than second and getting knocked out of Champions League group stages. I mean his the statman after all. The stats aren’t even adding up.

 

[Rozay]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Again. Let the discussion always continue with context.

He held onto the ball too much and was robbed without knowing what was around him. He could have released it earlier

When he does the simple stuff, hes the best at it. When he over thinks it that's when the frustration happens

His goal was worthy of winning a game but his mistake was worthy of the equaliser

Glad he scored his penalty too

Talk me through this mistake and how he held the ball for too long please. The video is there.

 

[bsCallout]

All the best playmakers in the world anually top the charts for turnovers/giveaways but it only seems to define and erase all the good for a certain few in the eyes of fans

Isn't the point that because Pogba plays in a midfield two he loses it in more dangerous areas? Most 'playmakers' have players behind them to cover. People wouldn't care if Pogba lost the ball in the final third, but he's loses it in the defensive third.

He's a risky player to play in that position for that reason but I'd argue it gets the best out of his attacking play because he's got such good long range passing.

 

[bsCallout]

Yep so I heard 2 medals vs 0 medals whilst still still not finishing higher than second and getting knocked out of Champions League group stages. I mean his the statman after all. The stats aren’t even adding up.

Your hatred for Bruno is pretty weird.

 

[ThreeCorners]

Unfortunately it seems like Pogba really needs a team to be built around him.

Very similar to Riquelme, and Veron. Can't seem to just slot in straight into a conventional AM, CM or DM.
We might only start to see the best from Pogba when he goes to a Villareal or Estudiantes where they give him the freedom to do whatever he wants.

 

[Mainoldo]

If you're arguing Pogba has been better for United than Bruno has been then you need serious serious help my friend. It's not even a close contest and 90% of our fanbase would be on my side.

You just can't seem to distinguish between having natural ability which Pogba has in spades no doubt and actually delivering for us. Pogba has been a disappointing signing for us for a wide variety of reasons. Not all his fault but he's definitely got to take some of the blame. His effort when in a Blue French shirt is noticeably different.

You can’t distinguish what a good player is that’s the problem.

I take it we are going to leave that silly Giroud comment then.

But also 90% of this fanbase thinks we can win gold with this manager so I wouldn’t be singing too much about being in the 90% club it use to be the same numbers that wanted Ronaldo gone in 06 as Rooney was the better player…..

Basically just because you think you are right and have the numbers behind you doesn’t actually mean you are right.

 

[spiriticon]

Yep so I heard 2 medals vs 0 medals whilst still still not finishing higher than second and getting knocked out of Champions League group stages. I mean his the statman after all. The stats aren’t even adding up.

So you're comparing the total trophy count of someone who's been here 6 years vs someone who's been here 1.5 years?

I mean, Pogba hasn't even got the medals that Philly Jones has got, I bet he wishes he was as good as Jones.

I don't really want to get into a Pogba vs Bruno debate regardless. It's pointless.

 

[Mainoldo]

Your hatred for Bruno is pretty weird.

Na you know what I don’t hate him. I just like pointing out how unfairly we rate our players. I do like Bruno really. Makes our team difficult to watch as we play for him but he’s a really good player.

 

[Mainoldo]

So you're comparing the total trophy count of someone who's been here 6 years vs someone who's been here 1.5 years?

I mean, Pogba hasn't even got the medals that Philly Jones has got, I bet he wishes he was as good as Jones.

Not really I’m comparing there actual trophy count. They are like 1-2 years apart in age. You would think they had a similar career path and medal count how they are compared to eachother.

 

[Rozay]

Isn't the point that because Pogba plays in a midfield two he loses it in more dangerous areas? Most 'playmakers' have players behind them to cover. People wouldn't care if Pogba lost the ball in the final third, but he's loses it in the defensive third.

He's a risky player to play in that position for that reason but I'd argue it gets the best out of his attacking play because he's got such good long range passing.

He lost the ball in the opponent’s half, with half of his team behind him and only two Swiss players behind him.

It’s extremely unfortunate, and somehow inevitable for him, sadly, that Switzerland went on to score there. But it was no more of a ‘mistake’ that whatever Swiss player lost the ball before Pogba scored. He didn’t present Pogba with a goalscoring chance, it’s just unfortunate that Pogba put it in the top corner from 30 yards. But everyone was set, it wasn’t a ‘mistake’, it’s football.

The pass from Benzema was stupid in the first place too, I felt that as soon as he played it, although admittedly, I didn’t think it was a big deal as I’d never have thought Switzerland would go and score from there.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

You can’t distinguish what a good player is that’s the problem.

I take it we are going to leave that silly Giroud comment then.

But also 90% of this fanbase thinks we can win gold with this manager so I wouldn’t be singing too much about being in the 90% club it use to be the same numbers that wanted Ronaldo gone in 06 as Rooney was the better player…..

Basically just because you think you are right and have the numbers behind you doesn’t actually mean you are right.

A player who is 'better than Bruno' should be scoring more goals in a season than Scott Mctomminay did. Would you not agree?

Bruno 28 goals
Pogba 6

Bruno player of the year 2 times in 2 years
Pogba 0 in 5 years

He's a very talented footballer but he's got so much wrong about his game. Attitude and effort being two of them.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Again. Let the discussion always continue with context.




Talk me through this mistake and how he held the ball for too long please. The video is there.

He wasn’t aware of the man behind him and his body shape was all wrong and casual to protect the ball in the middle of the pitch. He didn’t have much time to react but he’s world class, in my opinion he should have done better. He tried to casually roll his foot over the ball, If his touch took him into the space and played out wide or he played it first time to the left he would not have been caught. Kante and kimpbe didn’t cover themselves in glory either after that.

I know that is hyper critical but it’s what happened and it was in the 90th minute

 

[Beachryan]

The more I think about it, the only conclusion I can come to is that Pogba has too much talent, and that it's been too easy for him. We all had 'that' kid at school, who could show up without studying and get top marks, just because some quirk of genetics means their brain works a bit better than everyone elses'.

But typically those kids aren't the ones that go onto found huge companies, make ground-breaking discoveries and so forth. It's the kids that are smart - of course - but have some grit, some drive and something to prove.

I think that's Pogba's problem - and he's definitely not alone in football. There are countless 'wonderkids' with the world at their feet who never quite get the mentality and effort to match their technical prowess.

What he's done in the game is still staggering. He's won multiple trophies, performed on the biggest stage and became one of the most iconic players of a generation. He's an elite footballer.

I think the general frustration with him - not the racists with their agenda or the ABUs with theirs' - is that he should be the best player in the world. But no matter how many ridiculous half-volleyed perfect through balls he hits (the one in added time? woof!) he still makes the same mistakes that cost his team. And he shouldn't be forgiven for that.

And those saying we should build around him instead of the vastly-less talented, less-physically-capable and just less Bruno - we tried that for 3 years. Bruno's the equivalent of the less-innately smart kid who had to grind for everything, and is now the billionaire.

 

[bsCallout]

Na you know what I don’t hate him. I just like pointing out how unfairly we rate our players. I do like Bruno really. Makes our team difficult to watch as we play for him but he’s a really good player.

Why would you spend your time putting down one of our players just to make another player look better? Every thread I see you in it's a dig at either Ole or Bruno. Your arguement when someone brings up something Pogba does wrong is to moan about Bruno.

 

[spiriticon]

Not really I’m comparing there actual trophy count. They are like 1-2 years apart in age. You would think they had a similar career path and medal count how they are compared to eachother.

Well Bruno might be a late bloomer, but that doesn't mean he's crap now. I don't know why I'm debating Bruno in a Pogba thread.

 

[rotherham_red]

Do you guys feel Vieira and Henry were influenced by Keane to stick the boot in on Pogba despite his solid performance?

No.

Before the first France game of the tournament a couple of weeks ago, there was a debate between Keane and Vieira on Pogba. Keane was saying the exact same things as he said last night. Vieira was defending Pogba, saying in not so veiled terms that, Utd don't give him the freedom to express himself (patently bullshit btw, especially this season). Fast forward a little over two weeks later and Keane hadn't changed his position but Vieira did so, markedly, and it's all because the French got a brief glimpse of the Utd Pioche last night. He's wondrous player and talent, but he just cannot function in a midfield in any serious match-up and he's gone past the point of no return on whether he could be developed into that player either.

His best role is as a roaming playmaker off the left. A Trequartista if you will. And if he stays at Utd this summer, I think we're going to see him deployed there much more often than not.

Also, Henry wasn't in the studio and is with the Belgian national team.

 

[rotherham_red]

The number of United fans who are keen to criticise our players at the slightest opportunity amazes me. I am one of those who think Pogba has been okay for us and don't care that much if he leaves, but his performance against Swiss was amazing and lots to commend about.

Similarly, in this very thread, someone said Bruno needs to be brought back to earth

Agreed.

Mentalists on both sides, IMO.

 

[ThreeCorners]

Again. Let the discussion always continue with context.

Talk me through this mistake and how he held the ball for too long please. The video is there.

Don't think it's quite as big a mistake as everyone makes out. Once he loses the ball, there should still be enough defenders to cope. The bigger mistake was Kimpembe diving in.

The only way Pogba gets out of that, is if he played a first time pass out, once he takes a touch the Swiss players crowd him out.

The other thing was France with 1 minute left looked like they were still committing players forward and launching it long. With their ability, might have been better to keep the ball and slow play down.

 

[Rozay]

He wasn’t aware of the man behind him and his body shape was all wrong and casual to protect the ball in the middle of the pitch. He didn’t have much time to react but he’s world class, in my opinion he should have done better. He tried to casually roll his foot over the ball, If his touch took him into the space and played out wide or he played it first time to the left he would not have been caught. Kante and kimpbe didn’t cover themselves in glory either after that.

I know that is hyper critical but it’s what happened and it was in the 90th minute

He wasn’t aware and his body shape wasn’t right because he wasn’t set or expecting to receive the ball. He had literally just given it to Benzema and had players around him. Let’s be honest, you’re overly splitting hairs here - and you could apply the same forensic to literally any tackle in a midfield. ‘He didn’t see him coming’, ‘he should have shielded it’. It clearly wasn’t some ‘mistake’ as such. It is what followed the turnover that has led you to such a view in all likelihood.

Kanté totally lets Gavranovic run off him too. In fact, I’m confident if both player’s roles in that goal was reversed, Pogba would still be seen as more culpable there, for (typically) not tracking his runner.

 

[Mainoldo]

A player who is 'better than Bruno' should be scoring more goals in a season than Scott Mctomminay did. Would you not agree?

Bruno 28 goals
Pogba 6

Bruno player of the year 2 times in 2 years
Pogba 0 in 5 years

He's a very talented footballer but he's got so much wrong about his game. Attitude and effort being two of them.

It depends because if Zidane played for us would you say with your chest he should be out scoring Scott McTominay to prove he’s a good player?

He doesn’t have an attitude and effort problem he has a skin colour problem.

Before you bite I’m in no way referring that comment to you. I just believe the fact he is black has a big impact on how he is portrayed. Also that he plays for Manchester United. It’s like David Beckham but black. It plays it’s toll unfortunately. But that’s a society issue not a red cafe one.

 

[roonster09]

Na you know what I don’t hate him. I just like pointing out how unfairly we rate our players. I do like Bruno really. Makes our team difficult to watch as we play for him but he’s a really good player.

So many weird takes.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

why?

His celebration show for the goal was a joke and lacked respect for the opponent imo.

I might be able to forgive him when time will go on

 

[mancan92]

Was sensational yesterday. A complete shame that he went out due to terrible defending and Mbappe not turning up.

 

[Ali Dia]

Was sensational yesterday. A complete shame that he went out due to terrible defending and Mbappe not turning up.

He is very much a part of the terrible defending.

Fred and Mct were why he couldn’t get ahead with us

Now it’s Kantes fault.

Who will it be next?

Unfortunately you have to defend in central midfield.

 

[Zlatan 7]

He wasn’t aware and his body shape wasn’t right because he wasn’t set or expecting to receive the ball. He had literally just given it to Benzema and had players around him. Let’s be honest, you’re overly splitting hairs here - and you could apply the same forensic to literally any tackle in a midfield. ‘He didn’t see him coming’, ‘he should have shielded it’. It clearly wasn’t some ‘mistake’ as such. It is what followed the turnover that has led you to such a view in all likelihood.

Kanté totally lets Gavranovic run off him too. In fact, I’m confident if both player’s roles in that goal was reversed, Pogba would still be seen as more culpable there, for (typically) not tracking his runner.

Of course he was expecting that ball back, benzema had about 4 men around him and was facing back towards pogba.

I’ve already said kante didn’t do good once pogba had been dispossessed. I know it’s splitting hairs but when you break it down to see how the goal occurred that’s what happened.

I’ve got absolutely nothing against pogba and gutted that happened because it’s taken away from how well he did all match, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Stacks]

No.

Before the first France game of the tournament a couple of weeks ago, there was a debate between Keane and Vieira on Pogba. Keane was saying the exact same things as he said last night. Vieira was defending Pogba, saying in not so veiled terms that, Utd don't give him the freedom to express himself (patently bullshit btw, especially this season). Fast forward a little over two weeks later and Keane hadn't changed his position but Vieira did so, markedly, and it's all because the French got a brief glimpse of the Utd Pioche last night. He's wondrous player and talent, but he just cannot function in a midfield in any serious match-up and he's gone past the point of no return on whether he could be developed into that player either.

His best role is as a roaming playmaker off the left. A Trequartista if you will. And if he stays at Utd this summer, I think we're going to see him deployed there much more often than not.

Also, Henry wasn't in the studio and is with the Belgian national team.

But Vieira has surely watched Pogba for years so would know what his strength and weaknesses are plus he succeeded in the world cup playing the same role. I feel its because France did not win. @Rozay pointed out that the narrative on Pogba is dependent on whether his side wins or loses. they win and he "played solid, controlled the game, dominated, did his job, professional performance etc" they lose and its "quiet game, disappointment," or his mistakes are highlighted etc

 

[Adam-Utd]

He wasn’t aware of the man behind him and his body shape was all wrong and casual to protect the ball in the middle of the pitch. He didn’t have much time to react but he’s world class, in my opinion he should have done better. He tried to casually roll his foot over the ball, If his touch took him into the space and played out wide or he played it first time to the left he would not have been caught. Kante and kimpbe didn’t cover themselves in glory either after that.

I know that is hyper critical but it’s what happened and it was in the 90th minute

It's massively hyper critical.

The player comes from his blindside in less than a second. Maybe the only thing you can accuse him of is not being aware of his surroundings - but players lose the ball when being pressed in that situation all the time.

What does the worlds best defensive midfielder do to recover the situation? he neither presses the ball or drops deep to shield the defence. If anything that's an even bigger blunder than Pogba's.

People are always very quick to blame a player who gets tackled there's no way you can attribute a goal to somebody who got tackled in the opposition half, it's bonkers.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It depends because if Zidane played for us would you say with your chest he should be out scoring Scott McTominay to prove he’s a good player?

He doesn’t have an attitude and effort problem he has a skin colour problem.

Before you bite I’m in no way referring that comment to you. I just believe the fact he is black has a big impact on how he is portrayed. Also that he plays for Manchester United. It’s like David Beckham but black. It plays it’s toll unfortunately. But that’s a society issue not a red cafe one.

Absolute nonsense. I love Marcus Rashford and he's Black. Rashford doesn't have the ability Pogba has but he uses what he does have way more for us.

What a pathetic thing to say.

 

[Zlatan 7]

It's massively hyper critical.

The player comes from his blindside in less than a second. Maybe the only thing you can accuse him of is not being aware of his surroundings - but players lose the ball when being pressed in that situation all the time.

What does the worlds best defensive midfielder do to recover the situation? he neither presses the ball or drops deep to shield the defence. If anything that's an even bigger blunder than Pogba's.

I agree with you, but a world class central midfielder should be a bit more aware imo, he played the ball to benzema when benzema had nowhere to go, he was always going to get it back from him, but instead of dealing with it quickly he tried to roll his foot over the ball.

and we’re talking about Pogba not Kante. I’ve already said numerous times Kante didn’t cover himself in glory there either, and kimpembe even worse!