Lionel Messi’s Obscene Contract

[redshaw]

I don't think the La Liga salary cap is well known, seems to have got lost with other news and alleged money troubles. Barcelona was at around 670m salary and now has to bring it down to around 380m. La Liga is trying to safeguard the clubs from the pandemic.

A lot of reshuffling is required for Messi and he might jump up in wages again in 2022-23 if wages are cut for 2021

 

[Zehner]

I don't think the La Liga salary cap is well known, seems to have got lost with other news and alleged money troubles. Barcelona was at around 670m salary and now has to bring it down to around 380m. La Liga is trying to safeguard the clubs from the pandemic.

A lot of reshuffling is required for Messi and he might jump up in wages again in 2022-23 if wages are cut for 2021

That news totally went passed me without notice until it was brought up in the Messi comtext. It's actually quite big and revolutionary - maybe it would be a chance to implement a European wide salary cap. In the end this could actually pose a good covid consequence for football.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Are Barcelona prepared to put their entire team up for sale in order to keep Messi?

 

[cyberman]

Real Madrids revenue went from £232 million to £300 million in one season after they signed Beckham.

I do think yes Barcelona's shirt sales would suffer if the greatest player of all time left tomorrow. There's a lot of kids worldwide who may decide they'd prefer a Messi PSG shirt, instead of a Messi Barceloba shirt, if Messi was to switch clubs.

Its just the fanbase focusing on 1 standout player than bringing in extra shirt sales.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...les-world-Lionel-Messi-Cristiano-Ronaldo.html
Depay sold more shirts than Neymar. Not because he was a bugger superstar but because Neymar had his sales cannibalised by Messi and Depay had a Utd fanbase behind him who had a fresh name to give them hope.

 

[Pexbo]

shirt sales would be one element of the revenue Messi generates for the club.

Reports are Messi has generated €600m in revenue since his last contract signed 2017 and earned close to €400m.

Why should Messi sign a €10m a year contract when he's still bringing in all that cash for the club.

As I said, he's seen the club treat his best mate Suarez like crap last year so I'm sure there are elements and people within the club he doesn't like too, hence looking out for himself now.

I’d love to know how the quantify the revenue Messi generated and how they separate it from their general revenue. How do they know that a big portion of the same money wouldn’t have been picked up by the club in other streams?

 

[Fortitude]

That news totally went passed me without notice until it was brought up in the Messi comtext. It's actually quite big and revolutionary - maybe it would be a chance to implement a European wide salary cap. In the end this could actually pose a good covid consequence for football.

It would be an absolute disaster. Not least for the introduction of the best accountants and money-shifters money can buy then flooding the sport.

How long were the top clubs in Spain given to fall in line with this ruling anyway? Seems mighty unfair that a gradual reduction wasn't introduced or some method that wasn't going to cause this kind of frenzy.

 

[cyberman]

It would be an absolute disaster. Not least for the introduction of the best accountants and money-shifters money can buy then flooding the sport.

How long were the top clubs in Spain given to fall in line with this ruling anyway? Seems mighty unfair that a gradual reduction wasn't introduced or some method that wasn't going to cause this kind of frenzy.

If I read it correctly the massive drop was due to covid hitting finances? This isnt the first summer its been introduced.
This contract is insane, this rule is for the betterment of Barca.

 

[The Purley King]

Does anyone know what the rules of the salary cap are.
Pretty huge news and must affect Real as well?
Can’t believe I didn’t know about this before now !

 

[shahzy]

I don't think the La Liga salary cap is well known, seems to have got lost with other news and alleged money troubles. Barcelona was at around 670m salary and now has to bring it down to around 380m. La Liga is trying to safeguard the clubs from the pandemic.

A lot of reshuffling is required for Messi and he might jump up in wages again in 2022-23 if wages are cut for 2021

Instead of a hard and fast number, shouldn't la liga mandate % of revenue allowed for wages instead. As revenue falls due to covid, so should the wages in terms of percentage.

For example I think David Gill said he aimed to keep wages 50% of the revenue of the club and not much higher. Clubs like Barca and Madrid go to 70% which is completely ridiculous.

 

[Fortitude]

If I read it correctly the massive drop was due to covid hitting finances? This isnt the first summer its been introduced.
This contract is insane, this rule is for the betterment of Barca.

Yeah but how are the big clubs supposed to fall in line without some kind of grace period given a lot of contracts pre-date Covid and no player in their right mind is going to be moved on prematurely or accept reduced rates that leave them out of pocket?

Football is dog eat dog and this notion of looking out for your club, when your club would drop you like a hot potato when you no longer serve their interests, is bemusing.

 

[Lastwolf]

To be fair I heard we’d already paid for Sancho in shirt sales.

United, and most clubs, don't get a revenue share of individual shirt sales, it's a fixed fee.

Even if they did, a generous profit on a shirt would be £20 after everyone got their cut, Sancho costs 75m that's 3.75 million extra shirts, considering we average around 1.7million shirt per year, that did not occur.

 

[cyberman]

Yeah but how are the big clubs supposed to fall in line without some kind of grace period given a lot of contracts pre-date Covid and no player in their right mind is going to be moved on prematurely or accept reduced rates that leave them out of pocket?

Football is dog eat dog and this notion of looking out for your club, when your club would drop you like a hot potato when you no longer serve their interests, is bemusing.

Those players were taking pay cuts throughout the pandemic though? Its only Barca and this ridiculousness thats fallen oit of line. This is Barca bending to greed , nothing more.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Does anyone know what the rules of the salary cap are.
Pretty huge news and must affect Real as well?

It's different for each club - based on revenue, debt, etc.

Barca are hit harder than Real.

Anyway, the practical consequences seem a bit hazy at the moment - it doesn't look as though they plan on actually punishing clubs for non-compliance (which seems fair enough, given the sudden nature of this thing - it's hardly easy to reduce your wage bill by 40% just like that).

 

[Sky1981]

That news totally went passed me without notice until it was brought up in the Messi comtext. It's actually quite big and revolutionary - maybe it would be a chance to implement a European wide salary cap. In the end this could actually pose a good covid consequence for football.

Salary cap would be the end of football. Look at the US franchise.

 

[stevoc]

You are incorrect. He was supposed to be a free agent but covid pushed back the end of the season. He had the option of early termination for his contract and only exercised it because things between him and prior president Barto was so bad.

Right so he didn't try to leave on a free transfer?

So there wasn't another year left on his contract which only finished a few days ago?

Which part was I incorrect about?

Did he try to leave on a free transfer, yes he did. Was there still a year left to run on his contract at the time he tried to leave, yes there obviously was if he ended up staying without signing a new contract. He may well have had an option in his contract that lapsed, I never said there wasn't. But I don't see how anything I said was incorrect, it might seem that way because it wasn't worded to make Messi seem like a noble hero forced into a corner with no option but to leave, instead of a player seeing an opportunity for a big fat payday and jumping on it. But then I'm not a Messi fan boy.

No idea how a football player and a club president have a bad relationship, why would they even need to meet or be around each other on a regular basis. They may well have been on bad terms for whatever reason but hardly seems like a reason to try to force a free transfer out of the club where you've played for 2 decades since you were a child.

 

[Sky1981]

There's nothing wrong with football. There's just Barcelona fecked up by messi contract. The rest of europe is doing fine.

Madrid is doing fine by their own standard. They overspent wilingly and knowingly.

No need for salary cap yet.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's different for each club - based on revenue, debt, etc.

Barca are hit harder than Real.

Anyway, the practical consequences seem a bit hazy at the moment - it doesn't look as though they plan on actually punishing clubs for non-compliance (which seems fair enough, given the sudden nature of this thing - it's hardly easy to reduce your wage bill by 40% just like that).

Just release one player who is out of contract.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just release one player who is out of contract.

Exactly, it's really fecking easy.

Move on, rebuild. He's not getting any younger so they are gonna have to do it soon anyway.

 

[Zehner]

It would be an absolute disaster. Not least for the introduction of the best accountants and money-shifters money can buy then flooding the sport.

How long were the top clubs in Spain given to fall in line with this ruling anyway? Seems mighty unfair that a gradual reduction wasn't introduced or some method that wasn't going to cause this kind of frenzy.

I get your point but I'm arguing more from a long term/idealistic perspective. If no measures are taken, the wealth difference between the elite clubs and the rest will only continue to grow and sooner or later that'll make the ESL inevitable. With a salary cap, there could be more paths to the top for uprising clubs. Without one, the only way to challenge the "establishment" will be investors and those are viewed very critical, too.

Salary cap would be the end of football. Look at the US franchise.

I'm not that deep into US sports, could you explain that in more detail? For me, it's just about providing (realistic) ways for smaller clubs to the top. I think in England, this isn't really the problem because you have 4-6 clubs with somewhat realistic title ambitions but in Germany, Italy and France it is very unlikely that there will be a real competition at the top in the upcoming decade. The salary cap could level the playing field to some extent. I would like football to be a bit more like the 90s when there was more variety and the star players were spread more evenly across teams.

 

[The Purley King]

It's different for each club - based on revenue, debt, etc.

Barca are hit harder than Real.

Anyway, the practical consequences seem a bit hazy at the moment - it doesn't look as though they plan on actually punishing clubs for non-compliance (which seems fair enough, given the sudden nature of this thing - it's hardly easy to reduce your wage bill by 40% just like that).

I presume this is largely a one off due to Covid rather than something that will persist afterwards?
If there is no punishment for non-compliance then I'm not sure how that would work?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Just release one player who is out of contract.

Heh, yeah - fair enough.

That's just the one club, though. Other clubs have to do something very similar - some are around Barca's level in terms of how much they need to cut (percentage wise - around the 40 mark, it's a very dramatic change to implement short-term).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I presume this is largely a one off due to Covid rather than something that will persist afterwards?

Yes, I think so.

Once the economy stabilizes post-Covid, things will presumably go back to normal.

(At least that seems to be the intention).

 

[redshaw]

Instead of a hard and fast number, shouldn't la liga mandate % of revenue allowed for wages instead. As revenue falls due to covid, so should the wages in terms of percentage.

For example I think David Gill said he aimed to keep wages 50% of the revenue of the club and not much higher. Clubs like Barca and Madrid go to 70% which is completely ridiculous.

Probably would be fairer as some clubs extend themselves more than others. Valencia have been hit with this 40% reduction requirement as well but if for example they only spend 40-50% of their revenue it seems a little unfair.

A quick search suggest Valencia also spend a large portion players so perhaps there's less need for what you're proposing without going into each clubs revenue player split.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Heh, yeah - fair enough.

That's just the one club, though. Other clubs have to do something very similar - some are around Barca's level in terms of how much they need to cut (percentage wise - around the 40 mark, it's a very dramatic change to implement short-term).

how did the cap come about? Was this a league decision, the clubs?

has the implementation been known about for a number of years, or is this recent?

 

[The Purley King]

Yes, I think so.

Once the economy stabilizes post-Covid, things will presumably go back to normal.

(At least that seems to be the intention).

Have just been doing some reading on it and seems its been around since 2013. Once crowds start attending, from how it is all calculated, it'll bounce back up again. Barca seem to be right at the limit of their allowance though, probably not a good idea if it can reduce in the future. A bit like my bank manager telling 19 year old me "An overdraft is a limit, not a target".

Barca do appear screwed though, below is from here - https://www.90min.com/posts/la-liga-barcelona-atletico-madrid-slash-wages-real-madrid-cap-increases

"On Sunday, Barca members approved a €525m loan from Goldman Sachs to help ease the club through a rocky period financially.
Laporta said the money would not be used on signings, but to pay outstanding debts such as player salaries, transfer fee installments and money owed to the tax office."

€525m just to keep the lights on. Not good at all.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

has the implementation been known about for a number of years, or is this recent?

It's purely a Covid thing, as far as I know - to protect clubs from going bankrupt in the current economy.

It was decided sometime last year - not sure when exactly. I remember reading about it late last year - but few seem to have paid much attention to it until now.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

There's nothing wrong with football. There's just Barcelona fecked up by messi contract. The rest of europe is doing fine.

Madrid is doing fine by their own standard. They overspent wilingly and knowingly.

No need for salary cap yet.

I mean pretty much club in Europe has lost crap tone of money over the last 18 months and many clubs were over spending before that.
There are about 4 or 5 clubs in the premier league clubs are vastly over spending above what they can afford many funded by owners. And we have seen that go very very wrong in the past.
And this is just the top end it’s best not to even look at leagues like the championship.
So I think saying football is fine is not entirely correct.

 

[Catt]

Are Barcelona prepared to put their entire team up for sale in order to keep Messi?

We will play against FC Messi in the CL.
Barca are embarrassing themselves even more than usual.

 

[Rado_N]

United, and most clubs, don't get a revenue share of individual shirt sales, it's a fixed fee.

Even if they did, a generous profit on a shirt would be £20 after everyone got their cut, Sancho costs 75m that's 3.75 million extra shirts, considering we average around 1.7million shirt per year, that did not occur.

Whoooosh

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's purely a Covid thing, as far as I know - to protect clubs from going bankrupt in the current economy.

It was decided sometime last year - not sure when exactly. I remember reading about it late last year - but few seem to have paid much attention to it until now.

roger. Reducing wages due to Covid is clearly sensible. But very difficult to do over a short period of time when players are on multi-year contracts though. It doesn’t really seem to be a sensible decision for the long term if clubs are having to sell players or terminate contacts.

 

[flappyjay]

For example I think David Gill said he aimed to keep wages 50% of the revenue of the club and not much higher. Clubs like Barca and Madrid go to 70% which is completely ridiculous.

Something we have kept on all these years later. I saw a 2019 eufa report that showed that out of the top 20 highest wages in Europe only spurs out do us at 41% when we are at 45%. Probably why we hand contracts like candy.

 

[JPRouve]

Salary caps are a terrible idea because in football it is players that pay for it, clubs still generate the same amount of money but instead of going to the players it goes somewhere else, most likely in owners or the executives pockets. When people talk about american sports, they should know that outside of the MLB all franchises are essentially subsidized by the league, revenues are largely shared across the league(even tickets and merchandising) and for example a small market franchise like the San Diego Chargers used to have the same budget than a large market franchise like the Giants which means that a player in San Diego could ask for the same wage than if he was playing for a franchise in New York.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Whoooosh

bless them.

 

[Rado_N]

bless them.

 

[Zehner]

Salary caps are a terrible idea because in football it is players that pay for it, clubs still generate the same amount of money but instead of going to the players it goes somewhere else, most likely in owners or the executives pockets. When people talk about american sports, they should know that outside of the MLB all franchises are essentially subsidized by the league, revenues are largely shared across the league(even tickets and merchandising) and for example a small market franchise like the San Diego Chargers used to have the same budget than a large market franchise like the Giants which means that a player in San Diego could ask for the same wage than if he was playing for a franchise in New York.

I was of the same opinion and totally get this stance. If you just introduce a salary cap, it would just mean that you take the money players earn their clubs from them and distribute a higher proportion of it to the clubs and that's definitely not fair. But maybe it could work if the players get more freedom to market themselves.

What convinced me that the salary cap would be good in the long run is that we're currently witnessing how the elite clubs distance themselves further and further from the runners up and the only way to challenge them is to get an investor on board who most likely doesn't have economic but political interests (PSG, City). If it continues like that, sooner or later the ESL will come and then we'll be witnessing the same development among those clubs. The current system is a natural monopoly.

Or do you see any alternatives?

 

[JPRouve]

I was of the same opinion and totally get this stance. If you just introduce a salary cap, it would just mean that you take the money players earn their clubs from them and distribute a higher proportion of it to the clubs and that's definitely not fair. But maybe it could work if the players get more freedom to market themselves.

What convinced me that the salary cap would be good in the long run is that we're currently witnessing how the elite clubs distance themselves further and further from the runners up and the only way to challenge them is to get an investor on board who most likely doesn't have economic but political interests (PSG, City). If it continues like that, sooner or later the ESL will come and then we'll be witnessing the same development among those clubs. The current system is a natural monopoly.

Or do you see any alternatives?

Players are currently free to market themselves, you are not offering them an alternative or more potential revenues. The only scenario where salary cap is not a bad idea(and it's still not a good one) is if you heavily subsidize clubs, most likely through patronage, but you see it as an issue since you mentioned PSG and City as a negative alternative. The current system is a pyramid which is the most natural structure, the most consistent clubs in the largest cities are the wealthiest clubs and they attract the best players. What you are witnessing is the consequence of FFP.

There are no alternatives that do not involve giving money to smaller clubs and even then you simply artificial widen the gap with lower league clubs.

 

[Ecstatic]

I don't understand the debate.

The top management of Barcelona knows the pros and cons of a contract renewal: they believe the benefits exceed costs... at least in the short run.

The risk of unsustainable long-term debt can be mitigated in the long run....if they have the right long-term strategy.

They may also believe the Super League will be created at some point.

There is no denying the approach taken is very risky but they have no choice

 

[Zehner]

Players are currently free to market themselves, you are not offering them an alternative or more potential revenues. The only scenario where salary cap is not a bad idea(and it's still not a good one) is if you heavily subsidize clubs, most likely through patronage, but you see it as an issue since you mentioned PSG and City as a negative alternative. The current system is a pyramid which is the most natural structure, the most consistent clubs in the largest cities are the wealthiest clubs and they attract the best players. What you are witnessing is the consequence of FFP.

There are no alternatives that do not involve giving money to smaller clubs and even then you simply artificial widen the gap with lower league clubs.

Yet the pyramid is getting steeper the longer it exists and that's not really a favourable development for a sport if you ask me. Maybe or even probably, if you'd implement a salary cap, the competition for the signature of the player would revolve more around how much freedom to market themselves you give them on top of the capped salary. I mean, I'm not an expert on image rights so etc. so I'm seeing this more from a general and idealistic point of view but I imagine that the players could still profit more from their very own brands since they sell lots of licenses to clubs or am I wrong? In the end, if the player is less prominently coonnected to the club brand, he might ask for even higher deals from his advertising partners. But I get that this could be a bit of a naive opinion.

See, I'm not really picky when it comes to addressing this issue. I just think in the long run, it'll be a huge problem and the situation in Bundesliga, Serie A and Ligue 1 is most likely an outlook of how things will look like on a European level at the end of the road and IMO if the salary cap can't be the solution, an alternative is needed. At least if European football shouldn't become a sportswashing platform for rich regimes that is.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Have just been doing some reading on it and seems its been around since 2013. Once crowds start attending, from how it is all calculated, it'll bounce back up again. Barca seem to be right at the limit of their allowance though, probably not a good idea if it can reduce in the future. A bit like my bank manager telling 19 year old me "An overdraft is a limit, not a target".

Barca do appear screwed though, below is from here - https://www.90min.com/posts/la-liga-barcelona-atletico-madrid-slash-wages-real-madrid-cap-increases

"On Sunday, Barca members approved a €525m loan from Goldman Sachs to help ease the club through a rocky period financially.
Laporta said the money would not be used on signings, but to pay outstanding debts such as player salaries, transfer fee installments and money owed to the tax office."

€525m just to keep the lights on. Not good at all.

But, but, but...

Mes qué un club though??

 

[Ecstatic]

I was of the same opinion and totally get this stance. If you just introduce a salary cap, it would just mean that you take the money players earn their clubs from them and distribute a higher proportion of it to the clubs and that's definitely not fair. But maybe it could work if the players get more freedom to market themselves.

Two very independent concepts

What convinced me that the salary cap would be good in the long run is that we're currently witnessing how the elite clubs distance themselves further and further from the runners up and the only way to challenge them is to get an investor on board who most likely doesn't have economic but political interests (PSG, City).

Political investors are needed to inject cash into the football system

If it continues like that, sooner or later the ESL will come and then we'll be witnessing the same development among those clubs. The current system is a natural monopoly. Or do you see any alternatives?

The old, new and future systems are natural monopolies.

The irony is that Football is maybe the most fair business in the world.

What convinced me that the salary cap would be good in the long run is that we're currently witnessing how the elite clubs distance themselves further and further from the runners up and the only way to challenge them is to get an investor on board who most likely doesn't have economic but political interests (PSG, City). If it continues like that, sooner or later the ESL will come and then we'll be witnessing the same development among those clubs. The current system is a natural monopoly.

Or do you see any alternatives?

I like the concept of fine and compensation. An overly rich club has to financially compensate the competitors. Say that you introduce a cap on transfers: PSG not allowed to spend more than 150 millions. If PSG spends 350 million, the club will be fined 200 million: money redistributed to the 19 other French clubs.