Just needs to be consistent yellow cards. If refs were consistent it would die off for the most part.
Would you want to see harsher punishment for stopping counter attacks?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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Exactly this. It just needs to be enforced, strictly. I think it was the Denmark game where Delaney fouled Sterling like 15 seconds into the game and you could see the ref insinuating it was the first foul or early and just gave that calm down hand gesture when Kane came up to complain. It should have been a yellow and if you give these out consistently players I think will use them more as a last resort at important times of the game v a tactic employed by the manager.
If they added a 5 minute sin bin to the yellow card it would change the game in terms of fouls.
What are chops? He swiped his legs. It's dangerous because of the force, he got a red.You think a shirt pull is worse than a kick to the chops??
And yes, yanking someone's neck is worse than kicking a players legs.
There’s far to much training given to referees around “managing the match as a spectacle” in my opinion. The idea that nobody wants to watch a big match 10 vs 11, even if it creates a worse match with one team getting away with murder.
Yellow card first time, every time is the answer.
It was just in Italy's half by the touchline. There were two Italians in the centre who were closer to goal.
I don't think it's really an "obvious goalscoring opportunity".
Ok well, I think a kick that landed near the private parts is far more dangerous than any shirt pull. But that's my opinion.
I never knew about this. When was this used?
The law is "obvious" goal scoring opportunity, not "potential".
Then you will get managers using it to get additional subs in near the end of the game
.Yes. It's absolutely mad that refs (Michael Oliver might be the worst for it) think it's good to let obvious infringements go in the name of "spectacle" in an age where we're introducing things like goal-line technology and VAR in the name of fairness.
If a player makes a daft foul in the first thirty seconds that's worth a yellow card, then does another one five minutes later and gets sent off, that's on him. Refs shouldn't be worrying about ensuring the game is good to watch on TV, just that it's a fair contest with rules appropriately applied.
A yellow card and a kick up the arse?
I hate it with a passion.
It outright cheating. At least with some dives there is minimal contact and an actual attempt at deceit, while this is just outright, I've lost out so I'm just going to cheat by pulling you up.
I probably done it out of frustration a few times in my time, like a late kick out, but sometimes it's so obvious that it has no part in the game whatsoever.
But as mentioned, the inconsistency with players getting yellows for it, make it very tough to eradicate. I honestly wouldn't be opposed to sin bins in football, as I think the capacity to cheat is just so blatant and not really discouraged in any serious manner.
It outright cheating. At least with some dives there is minimal contact and an actual attempt at deceit, while this is just outright, I've lost out so I'm just going to cheat by pulling you up.
I probably done it out of frustration a few times in my time, like a late kick out, but sometimes it's so obvious that it has no part in the game whatsoever.
But as mentioned, the inconsistency with players getting yellows for it, make it very tough to eradicate. I honestly wouldn't be opposed to sin bins in football, as I think the capacity to cheat is just so blatant and not really discouraged in any serious manner.
In that case just make it part of their allocation of three (assuming we ever go back to that). So it essentially removes one of their sub options. It would have been a big psychological blow to Italy to have Chiellini replaced.Then you will get managers using it to get additional subs in near the end of the game
Ofcourse. There is also difference between tactical fouls. They can be dangerous (red direct) or they can be made like Chiellini did. Just a slight shirt grabing. Elegant in my opinion. No injury or even near.
A pro coach once told us, the ball can go through but never player.
I wouldn't add it to a yellow alone, hence why a new 'orange' card would be needed.
A yellow can still be kept for certain things like tactical fouls, regular fouling, time wasting, bad language etc.
No. The rule needs to be followed more strictly though.
Sin bin the filthy bastards.
Chiellini was accidental though, his arm got stuck in Sterling’s jersey.
Chiellini was accidental though, his arm got stuck in Sterling’s jersey.
Because the foul hurts the counter attacking team more than the tiki taka or other. You want to discourage teams intentionally fouling the opposition, whatever the reason. There should never be a situation where fouling should be in your interest or them situations should be minimised as much as possible.
Your correct that some teams are more deceitful than others. Hopefully they gain a reputation for being cheating shithouses and are treated accordingly.
Yellow cards are fine when they happen which isn't often enough
I agree with this. The first of these offences leads to a sin bin for 5 minutes. The second offence leads to the player playing with his laces tied together for 5 minutes. A third one leads to the player having to stand still whilst the opponent blasts the ball into him at full speed.
With that said, Chiellini's was accidental and Saka should have got booked for diving.
Obvious is subjective, Sako would have easily outpaced the two Italian defenders. But I know exactly what you mean, that's why I thought red but see why it was yellow. Could have been a goal scoring chance though given Sakos pace.
I think that would be far too complicated for referrees given they already struggle with just 2 cards.
Ref's need to be consistent. Man City make an utter mockery of it. Maybe they should keep it yellow card offence but if you get 3 yellows for persistent shithousery then you get a two game ban
I had to dig into my memory (meaning, I googled)... it wasn't worldwide, it was a trial in Uruguay in 1996, sorry to bring it up, I was 8 years old at the time and had the idea it wasn't a local thing.
A blue card meant the player had to go off the pitch for 5 minutes.
I've been thinking lately that a sin bin would be a very useful addition to the game. For what offenses and for how long is debatable, but there does need to be a penalty that's harsher than a waving a yellow card but not as brutish as a red card for non-violent offenses such what you're getting at here.
In the case of Chiellini/Saka one could argue it was so high up the pitch that it wasn't a bona fide goal scoring opportunity. But let's say it was. The prospect of a 10 or 15 minute benching rather than the non-punishment of a yellow card and the over-punishment of a red card might have caused Chiellini to not bring down Saka. Or maybe he would have done so anyway, knowing that he would serve 10-15 minutes on the bench. Either way, referees need an additional tool to let the game be played as it's supposed to be played, and for the enjoyment of the fans.
Are these sorts of fouls not already "tactical" fouls?
I don't like a sin bin idea because ultimately you're going to end up with more, longer breaks in play as players argue over every incident and then taking an age to leave the pitch.
Referees just have to be braver and more consistent with the yellow card.
No more "first tackle" or "early in the game" bollocks. No more "he's on a yellow so I can't give him one for that". Yellow is a yellow.
Almost think it's worth having a rule that 3 fouls = a yellow card to cut down on persistent fouling too, but that's a difficult one to keep track of.
It's the inconsistencies around the 'small' tactical fouls that bothers me more. If teams were penalized more often for those fouls committed before a counter attack can really begin, then they wouldn't be able to make the obvious fouls without facing a red card.
Too many teams have incorporated deliberate fouls into their pressing strategy. It's high time referees recognize this.
Too many teams have incorporated deliberate fouls into their pressing strategy. It's high time referees recognize this.
City struggle to get one yellow a game, though multiple players indulge in this. So I would be surprised if we see multiple yellows and all. Not going to happen.
They are usually valid fouls committed in an "attempt" to get the ball. Unless very egregious, you won't see yellows given for them.
rugby style sin bin would work with var.
not at all, most people already debate the difference between yellow and red, having the option of an inbetween would allow yellows to a lot more consistent, and reds for the genuinely bad tackles / cheating.
The pull back by Chiellini is a perfect example of when a orange would be ideal.
The referee will always have to make the decision that there was a foul and that will always cause controversy.
They then have three options - free kick (or penalty) alone or with the addition of a yellow or red card.
I don't like the idea of orange cards or sin-bins.
I wouldn't mind yellow cards being given more freely with the proviso that three yellows = one red. It would certainly give the offender a chance to control their behaviour. We have all seen the case where a second yellow leads to a sending off even though the first or second offence was pretty innocuous or maybe truly accidental. This would encourage the ref to give cards more freely and might liberate their actions.
Cheating - diving and deliberate fouling have to be curtailed.
Maybe the VAR should be able to award cards!
They then have three options - free kick (or penalty) alone or with the addition of a yellow or red card.
I don't like the idea of orange cards or sin-bins.
I wouldn't mind yellow cards being given more freely with the proviso that three yellows = one red. It would certainly give the offender a chance to control their behaviour. We have all seen the case where a second yellow leads to a sending off even though the first or second offence was pretty innocuous or maybe truly accidental. This would encourage the ref to give cards more freely and might liberate their actions.
Cheating - diving and deliberate fouling have to be curtailed.
Maybe the VAR should be able to award cards!
People say cheating and against the spirit of the game, but professional fouls always feel pretty much exactly in the spirit of the game I grew up playing. Maybe coming from a rough area gives you a different perspective.
I’ve put this in a few threads before as well. I don’t know what the worst offenders average in terms of fouls per game, but my original suggestions was 3 fouls always equalling a yellow.
I’m not sure on specifics though, as six fouls total seems like a lot, but four seems like nothing.
Brutal. Fernandinho would not have a career and his kids would be poor. Think of the children, ffs
You probably wont but the intention shouldn't be particularly relevant. If a simple free kick doesn't compensate for the opportunity lost then there should be further punishment or advantage given till it does.
If you last man is 5 yards further up the pitch and the 2nd last player scythes down a fast attacker on the half way line then a free kick, 2 mins after everyone has gotten back in position is a crap compensation. Yellow card or not. Give a free kick 5 yards back from the penalty spot, then its a trade off. Or just let one player behind the ball on restart - the same number they had before the foul. Free Kicks, fouls and stoppages aren't fun to watch, neither is shithousery and dishonesty. And i doubt they're that much fun to compete against either.
People feel like Chiellini should have gotten a red because he probably should have. While technically they had players back, meaning it wasn't dogso by the letter of the law, realistically Bonnuci and the full back didn't have a hope in hell of keeping up with Saka who hadn't been on that long. Sterling and Kane overtaking them to make it a simple tap in was drastically more likely than either of them getting back to stop him . It was way too easy and obvious a choice for a player who'd been beaten, with no meaningful punishment.
Sorry I meant if a player gets 3 yellow cards on separate occasions for persistent tactical fouls then they get an immediate two game ban. At the moment you need to get ten yellows for a two game ban and the ref has to record what the incident was.
Guarantee you would stop this pantomime from City and Thiago which involves aggressively playing the ankle, rushing to their feet, making the gesture to the ref that the ball is round (yes we know it's round d'head) then pointing at some fictitious part of the pitch to suggest they played the said round ball and then looking shocked like somebody shit all over his wife's tits when the ref does eventually give a foul.
I really like the bin idea. Would help us big time imo, we got fouled a lot especially our attackers. Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford got harsh treatment basically every match and they did nothing about. And we're good with counter attack. While it's bad for City and Liverpool. I'm all in.
I may have heard something about rugby having it once but I don't really pay attention to those sports.
I can't believe this is news to you. It's a really old name.