SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Tibs

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Had my second jab today.

For the past couple of days I've felt really run down and tired...had the jab...and now it seems I'm developing a cold? Did a LFT that was negative
 

Bosws87

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Not really given the track and trace app is anonymous.
From a public health perspective it’s terrible design, it’s not controversial to admit that not everyone is tech savvy it’s poorly formulated simple as.
 

Rado_N

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From a public health perspective it’s terrible design, it’s not controversial to admit that not everyone is tech savvy it’s poorly formulated simple as.
I’m not sure what your point is here. Your initial complaint was that the track and trace app and the general NHS app are not one in the same.

The track and trace app is (by design) anonymous and the general NHS app contains your entire medical records.

Surely it’s easy to understand why they are not both in one app?
 

Bosws87

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I’m not sure what your point is here. Your initial complaint was that the track and trace app and the general NHS app are not one in the same.

The track and trace app is (by design) anonymous and the general NHS app contains your entire medical records.

Surely it’s easy to understand why they are not both in one app?
Just talking from real life experience where I’ve had to explain this to people and set it up for them, that’s all
 

FootballHQ

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When are they actually making the decision on when under 18s will be eligible for the jab if they so wish? Seems it's been debated and looked at for months now while US started their roll out from mid June.

O.k they're very low risk but ultimately it's still another 5m or so who can spread covid in a continous loop once they return to education in September so surely will happen then.
 

jojojo

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When are they actually making the decision on when under 18s will be eligible for the jab if they so wish? Seems it's been debated and looked at for months now while US started their roll out from mid June.

O.k they're very low risk but ultimately it's still another 5m or so who can spread covid in a continous loop once they return to education in September so surely will happen then.
The JCVI will decide on timing. I wouldn't be surprised to see it opened to 16/17 year olds + over 12s with particular risk factors (maybe even including a family member at high risk.

I hope they do start doing 17 year olds in particular this month if only to make sure they can get the ones who will go away to college in the autumn double vaxxed.
 

F-Red

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Test 3. Surge in new Covid infections. They are rising steeply.
It doesn't mention that, it specifically relates to infection rates and surge in hospitalisations, not case rates. Test three states the following:

  • infection rates do not risk a surge in hospitalisations which would put unsustainable pressure on the NHS
We've had both Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance coming out and saying that the NHS can cope with the current levels and we're not seeing surges that we've seen in previous waves, so I disagree in your assessment.
 

Fluctuation0161

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I'm not confident the UK is making the right decision again with this "freedom day" policy. Is it likely likely be another Tory clusterfeck?
 

Adamsk7

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It doesn't mention that, it specifically relates to infection rates and surge in hospitalisations, not case rates. Test three states the following:



We've had both Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance coming out and saying that the NHS can cope with the current levels and we're not seeing surges that we've seen in previous waves, so I disagree in your assessment.
To your last point, you should read the Sage report on reopening. They say there is a great degree of uncertainty on this and that if people go back to pre pandemic behaviours, we could have 4000+ hospitalisations per day, which would lead to interventions again. Only by people acting responsibly and ethically do they see us having a gradual, longer wave of 1000-1500 hospitalisations.

I think the main debate in all of this is whether the public are going to do their bit or not. Personally, I don’t think they will BUT there are many that do and that’s fair enough too.
 

Buster15

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It doesn't mention that, it specifically relates to infection rates and surge in hospitalisations, not case rates. Test three states the following:



We've had both Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance coming out and saying that the NHS can cope with the current levels and we're not seeing surges that we've seen in previous waves, so I disagree in your assessment.
Up to you.
However, I made this statement having listened to a number of leading scientific and medical people saying that all the indications are that the surge in new Covid infections is highly likely to result in a significant increase in hospital admissions around the middle of August. This was based on 30% of UK population not having two full vaccinations plus the 10 days that the body needs to produce the required immunity.
Current hospital levels are increasing day on day and so are deaths.
 

jojojo

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I'm not confident the UK is making the right decision again with this "freedom day" policy. Is it likely likely be another Tory clusterfeck?
Massive gamble, though the broad principles make a kind of sense. The use of terminology like "freedom day" is dangerous - it's a "go and hide" day for lots of people. The decision to drop mitigations (like masks on public transport) on purely political grounds is offensive.

What looks like a decision (or lack of one) to ignore other mitigations - like better financial support for self-isolation, action on ventilation in workplaces and schools etc is a mark of impatience and indifference, not science. Their response to the covid tracking app getting triggered, is to turn down the volume on the alarm. There's talk that free issue LFTs and instructions for routine testing in schools etc will be removed. They've reached the, "if we close our eyes and jump it might be ok," moment.

If we get through the summer with no more than 10k in hospital at any one time, it'll be a seen as a success. But it will still mean massive overload on hospital staff and resources and another pause on non-urgent care. We'll also be seeing at least 100 people/day die - which is never good news but it might be wishful thinking to believe that there's a way to avoid them.

The actual results will depend on what happens in terms of social/family mixing and for that all we can do is hope for the best, and advise even the double vaxxed to be cautious and everyone that it's not as simple as declaring yourself "willing to take the risk" because that risk affects other people as well.
 

Stack

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In the meantime the South Pacific Island of Niue has reached 90% vaccinations. (We all need some good news with this virus)
 

Bosws87

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All for everything opening up again, just don't understand why public transport or large enclosed areas a Mask isn't mandated.

I cant wait to go back to old trafford with full capacity, but anyone that's been and have to get the tram home from exchange quays knows the insanity of no masks in a carriage you cannot move in .
 

Pogue Mahone

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It doesn't mention that, it specifically relates to infection rates and surge in hospitalisations, not case rates. Test three states the following:



We've had both Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance coming out and saying that the NHS can cope with the current levels and we're not seeing surges that we've seen in previous waves, so I disagree in your assessment.
Come on now. Current infection rates clearly risk a rise in hospitalisations. Risk aside, we’re already seeing an actual increase.
 

Pogue Mahone

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All for everything opening up again, just don't understand why public transport or large enclosed areas a Mask isn't mandated.

I cant wait to go back to old trafford with full capacity, but anyone that's been and have to get the tram home from exchange quays knows the insanity of no masks in a carriage you cannot move in .
I see that the mayor of London has made a decision to keep mandatory masks on the tube. I wonder if other local leaders will end up doing the same?
 

Bosws87

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I see that the mayor of London has made a decision to keep mandatory masks on the tube. I wonder if other local leaders will end up doing the same?
You would hope some common sense is applied, Manchester transport could just put more frequent trams on at kick off times but that's a ridiculous suggestion :lol:

Next they will be wondering why no one buys a ticket for the tram service on match days.
 

F-Red

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Come on now. Current infection rates clearly risk a rise in hospitalisations. Risk aside, we’re already seeing an actual increase.
The definition of surge would mean absolute numbers and not percentage increase, unless we measure bed capacity by another metric? They do risk a rise in hospitalisations, but case rates seem to be concentrated within the under 29's - most likely those without full vaccinations. Comparing wave to wave, as a broad brush it's looking like it's 2/3's less due to the vaccination impact.

However there are so many variables that sit behind hospitalisations that currently isn't reported, age profile of patient, time spent in hospital, whether they're vaccinated or not. So high numbers of admission is not a problem if they're turning around quicker than previous waves. I don't think they would talk with much confidence on the health service being able to cope if the profiles were similar to the previous waves.

However back to your point on risk, it's correct. It's risk but there's risk everywhere with this, but after the population is vaccinated then we're going to have to tackle the risk head on as there's no other solutions other than living in a constant lockdown.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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I see that the mayor of London has made a decision to keep mandatory masks on the tube. I wonder if other local leaders will end up doing the same?
Yep. And the Tory acolytes will carp on about the ‘Muslim Mayor’ and the culture war has another log to burn.

It’s clear as day that they’ve taken a position of ‘Freedom & Personal Responsibility’ to then point at Nannying overreaching Metropolitan Mayors to dilute their positions. It won’t take long.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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I see that the mayor of London has made a decision to keep mandatory masks on the tube. I wonder if other local leaders will end up doing the same?
Without legislation (as they have until 19 July) will transport companies actually have any powers to force people to wear a mask?
 

FootballHQ

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To your last point, you should read the Sage report on reopening. They say there is a great degree of uncertainty on this and that if people go back to pre pandemic behaviours, we could have 4000+ hospitalisations per day, which would lead to interventions again. Only by people acting responsibly and ethically do they see us having a gradual, longer wave of 1000-1500 hospitalisations.

I think the main debate in all of this is whether the public are going to do their bit or not. Personally, I don’t think they will BUT there are many that do and that’s fair enough too.
Interesting. So in effective Sage are modelling as if life will go exactly back to what it was say on January 6th 2020 when the concept of anyone wearing a mask out on street or public transport would've just stood out like when you saw tourists in London wearing them who'd come from asian countries.

While many will ditch masks it won't go straight back up to 100% not bothering with them so that needs to taken into the account for the more vulnerable to covid.

Where I think the government have gone wrong is scaling up way too quickly. For example with the football grounds thing. It was 10k for last two games of last season. What's wrong with them going 20k for first month of the season, then 30k in September and keep on scaling up and see what the data is with crowds, not just at the ground but getting to and from the venue. Just seems a huge gamble to suddenly decide on capacity crowds of 50-70k right from the start and then thousands of those then mix with everyone else on buses, trains and pubs for many hours on a Saturday and Sunday. I could understand that more if second doses was already 40m + but still a good month or so off that.

Personally I'd have keep the current status for another month and then probably from middle of August had two months of a bit more "normality" and then you make final decision on rest of the year going into the winter period.
 

Mickeza

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Deepthroating information to Howard Nurse.
Thankfully our unlocking is a bit more sensible than Boris’ Big Bang day of freedom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57823021

The fact it isn’t a legal requirement to wear face coverings in supermarkets and public transport in England is a political travesty and as per usual the BBC have been trying their best to justify the shit show. First, we should be trying to make essential areas such as buying food/travel if you’re at risk/unable to be vaccinated as safe as reasonably possible and wearing a mask for 30 minutes is more than fecking reasonable if you aren’t a gammon cnut. Secondly, the messaging by saying FREEDOM DAY and masks can go is basically back to normal the pandemic is over. They’ve tried to reign that in this week but as usual it’s a clusterfeck of ineptitude of their own making as they tried to culture war a fecking pandemic. The fact Wales - who have been insanely cautious throughout this whole thing - only on Saturday can I now legally meet with friends at my house indoors - are doing things pretty similar just a few weeks later shows the data clearly looks good assuming people don’t act like bellends - but just keeping masks and better messaging makes a big difference for me.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Thankfully our unlocking is a bit more sensible than Boris’ Big Bang day of freedom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57823021

The fact it isn’t a legal requirement to wear face coverings in supermarkets and public transport in England is a political travesty and as per usual the BBC have been trying their best to justify the shit show. First, we should be trying to make essential areas such as buying food/travel if you’re at risk/unable to be vaccinated as safe as reasonably possible and wearing a mask for 30 minutes is more than fecking reasonable if you aren’t a gammon cnut. Secondly, the messaging by saying FREEDOM DAY and masks can go is basically back to normal the pandemic is over. They’ve tried to reign that in this week but as usual it’s a clusterfeck of ineptitude of their own making as they tried to culture war a fecking pandemic. The fact Wales - who have been insanely cautious throughout this whole thing - only on Saturday can I now legally meet with friends at my house indoors - are doing things pretty similar just a few weeks later shows the data clearly looks good assuming people don’t act like bellends - but just keeping masks and better messaging makes a big difference for me.
Here here.
 

djembatheking

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Thankfully our unlocking is a bit more sensible than Boris’ Big Bang day of freedom:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57823021

The fact it isn’t a legal requirement to wear face coverings in supermarkets and public transport in England is a political travesty and as per usual the BBC have been trying their best to justify the shit show. First, we should be trying to make essential areas such as buying food/travel if you’re at risk/unable to be vaccinated as safe as reasonably possible and wearing a mask for 30 minutes is more than fecking reasonable if you aren’t a gammon cnut. Secondly, the messaging by saying FREEDOM DAY and masks can go is basically back to normal the pandemic is over. They’ve tried to reign that in this week but as usual it’s a clusterfeck of ineptitude of their own making as they tried to culture war a fecking pandemic. The fact Wales - who have been insanely cautious throughout this whole thing - only on Saturday can I now legally meet with friends at my house indoors - are doing things pretty similar just a few weeks later shows the data clearly looks good assuming people don’t act like bellends - but just keeping masks and better messaging makes a big difference for me.
Sensible rules , Drakeford likes to delay and see what happens in England first. Mind you I think it will be a struggle to enforce masks with tourists from England who have got their holiday heads on as it was hard enough when masks were mandatory in England. My mates son was on the door in a local Tesco and got a lot of abuse asking people to put masks on. We are carrying on as we are , mother and father in law in their 80s so sit outside enjoy the weather, who knows things might not get too out of hand.
 

Dumbstar

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Had a positive test on Tuesday after an outbreak at my daughter's school. I've had 2 jabs and it's hit me like a bus. Feeling terrible. Things will just end getting worse from Monday.
Sorry to hear that, worrying that it wasn't mild symptoms only for you. Did you get AZ jabs and, if so, do you know if they were produced in India?
 

Pogue Mahone

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Sorry to hear that, worrying that it wasn't mild symptoms only for you. Did you get AZ jabs and, if so, do you know if they were produced in India?
I’ve noticed you asking similar questions of anyone who says they’ve got covid recently. I can understand why you’re curious but the answers won’t tell you anything useful. I can say with absolute certainty that some people are catching covid despite being vaccinated. Two doses, one dose, Pfizer, AZ, every other vaccine. It doesn’t matter. You will see people with every possible vaccine history catching covid. And some of those people will end up in hospital. Some will die. That’s the reality we’re dealing with here. The vaccines are remarkably effective but they’re not 100% effective at preventing anything. Which we can see from the PHE data on vaccine effectiveness.
 

MikeUpNorth

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Any evidence that babies are any more affected by Delta than other versions of the virus?

I ask because we're gonna get our second jabs soon and plan to get back to more or less normal life, unless there's a significant risk to our kid.
 

Dumbstar

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I’ve noticed you asking similar questions of anyone who says they’ve got covid recently. I can understand why you’re curious but the answers won’t tell you anything useful. I can say with absolute certainty that some people are catching covid despite being vaccinated. Two doses, one dose, Pfizer, AZ, every other vaccine. It doesn’t matter. You will see people with every possible vaccine history catching covid. And some of those people will end up in hospital. Some will die. That’s the reality we’re dealing with here. The vaccines are remarkably effective but they’re not 100% effective at preventing anything. Which we can see from the PHE data on vaccine effectiveness.
I was hoping you wouldn't say that. :(
 

Pogue Mahone

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Any evidence that babies are any more affected by Delta than other versions of the virus?

I ask because we're gonna get our second jabs soon and plan to get back to more or less normal life, unless there's a significant risk to our kid.
None whatsoever. For very young kids the much bigger risk to their health has always been old school viruses like influenza, measles or RSV.
 

MikeUpNorth

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None whatsoever. For very young kids the much bigger risk to their health has always been old school viruses like influenza, measles or RSV.
Nice. I’m still planning to use her as an excuse to get out of going to things though.
 

Pogue Mahone

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So this was 3 weeks ago. Still waiting for that disaster.
I haven’t been following case numbers in the Nordic countries. Is delta having any impact yet?

EDIT: Quick google reveals daily case numbers in Finland have tripled since the date of that tweet and seem to be trending steeply upwards. “Disaster” obviously a poorly chosen word but not sure his point has been invalidated by subsequent events.