srsly.
Top 10 best squads in Europe on paper
- Thread starter Theonas
- Start date
Mane has been in poor form (hence Sancho> Mane) for over a year and Cavani is a better player than Jota or Firmino from last season.You nearly did so well and then you choose to argue over Matip > Varane, ffs
If VVD returns to full strength, I'd want Bruno, Pogba and Varane into our first XI. That's it.
There are alot of uncertainties with your team as we dont know how VVD and Matip will do following the injuries.
Barcelona (without Messi) are behind Dortmund and Inter (despite the Sancho & Lukaku leaving). They aren't guaranteed the approval of Aguero and Depay contracts.
I don't think you're going to enjoy this season much if you really believe that.
Possibly on squad but Utds first 11 is a fair bit stronger to be honest.
We don't need to talk about the striker or midfield. Their weakness is a defense that is basically brand new, with untested players. In the past Bayern could rely on Boateng and Alaba for just baller experience in high pressure games. Were they shaky last season? Sure, but they were a known factor. Davies is turning out to be a jewel, so I'm not worried about the left side. The right side is - as always since Lahm's departure - the achilles heel. Kimmich could do the job, but he doesn't want to.
Add to that a young coach that... is interesting, but honestly, he's also untested. He didn't go through actual high pressure and while everyone's shrugging off losing 3 pre-season games (one of them against Napoli no less), if you want to compete in the CL and are aiming for the final, you don't lose 3 pre-season games in a row. There is just no explanation for that happening. I don't care if there was a Euro and Corona and everything else going wrong, the same is true for any other team in Europe. Something is not working right now.
Of course, we'll see the true strength in the league. So my assessment is super early and probably a little premature. But they are definitely not anywhere near PSG, Madrid or City at the moment. That is, if Madrid is smart and ignores where Alaba wants to play and put him in left fullback where he belongs, like it or not. He's atrocious in midfield and the only thing more amazing than his lack of skill in midfield is his ignorance of said lack of skill.
Di Maria was MOTM v Burnley in his PL debut
I think these are both reasonable takes and cheers for sharing your perspectives!
For me, Pogba is the better player overall but not in a deep-lying role IMO - suppose I should clarify that I was thinking 4-2-3-1 and I'd have Goretzka over Pogba as a 6 personally. I suppose I may also be somewhat (irrationally) overrating Pavard as I think he's better rounded than AWB - the latter is better defensively 1v1 but I think Pavard contributes much more going forward and in a team with this much quality I'd lean towards that skillset, if that makes sense.
I think you're both right re: Gnabry vs. Rashford - probably too dependent on tactics to say that one player is definitively better so I'll happily retract that.
Mane had 11 goals and 7 assists in 31 starts.
Sancho had 8 goals and 12 assists in 24 starts.
The fact that you even argue that Sancho > Mane based on that "off season" shows to what an incredibly high standard Mane is held because he's been so incredibly good at Liverpool. There have been a lot of times that people were arguing that actually him and not Salah was our best and most important player.
Also firmly disagree on Cavani over Jota or Fimino, in his prime yeah but he isn't all that anymore. If Utd had a quality striker I'd have him over Firmino as he's been poor for a long time now but not Cavani.
'VvD = Maguire' ended any more interest for me in this thread. 
And he was being serious as well.
And he was being serious as well. Isn't that a more reasonable claim than Henderson being better than Pogba pound for pound?'VvD = Maguire' ended any more interest for me in this thread.
It seems pretty clear cut in Europe then. Almost everyone has the same ten, except for two posters who include Dortmund instead of Barcelona, one poster who lists 12 and therefore has space for Dortmund and Atalanta, and one poster who has Spurs instead of Juve (based on the squad value as listed by transfermarkt).
I am not sure Citys squad is that strong right now. Pep makes it look much better than it is.
Up front they got Jesus as the only real striker. Torres can play that role, but not proven at the highest level.
Sterling declined a lot last season too, but had a good Euro. Could be a star again, but also much up and down.
They have lots of depth in midfield, but the only player I would honestly feel would uppgrade us is KDB.
Dias over Varane as well, but Maguire and Dias as leaders might not both be needed.
PSG on the other hand got so many amazing players and brilliant depth as well, but I feel they might have too many stars for Pochettino to work it all out.
Up front they got Jesus as the only real striker. Torres can play that role, but not proven at the highest level.
Sterling declined a lot last season too, but had a good Euro. Could be a star again, but also much up and down.
They have lots of depth in midfield, but the only player I would honestly feel would uppgrade us is KDB.
Dias over Varane as well, but Maguire and Dias as leaders might not both be needed.
PSG on the other hand got so many amazing players and brilliant depth as well, but I feel they might have too many stars for Pochettino to work it all out.
Th is, and i am saying thats as a Bayern supporter. There has been a significant drain of talent since the magnificent CL title season: Thiago, Alaba, Boateng. Others have faded in form, like Davies or Gnabry (a bit). Neuer and Müller have not gotten younger. The replacements like Hernandez, Nianzou, Musiala or Upamecano have yet to prove they are able to play on the same level. fthe CL team also had high class bench options forthe attack in Coutinho and Perisic, who have not been replaced at all. Only option is Musiala, who is superbly talented but only 18… Sane is struggling, Tolisso constantly underperforming, Süle is regressing and out of favor, Sarr, Roca and Cuisance have been abysmal - all these are up for sale with little interest from buyers. Coman who was the best performer behind Lewa in attack may be in his last year at the club, super fragile and there is no adequate backup on the bench.
this team relies on the axis Neuer Kimmich Goretzka Müller Lewandowski maintaining their level, with three of them approaching the autumn of their careers.
overall, no where near top 3 in europe in this current shape.
Not to me. Pogba is clearly more talented and can turn out higher level of performances, but in terms of what they each contribute to the team over a season, I reckon Henderson takes it.
Van Dijk curbstomps maguire in regards to both ability and performance.
And Pogba.
Agreed. Based on last year, where VVD missed the whole season (and no guarantees hes coming back near what he was), I would say Maguire is better than VVD.'VvD = Maguire' ended any more interest for me in this thread.
Ole's been on the job for two-and-a-half seasons, spent loads of money and is yet to win a trophy. If all it takes for him to keep the job is finishing in the top four and not being embarrassed in Europe, I'd say the standards at United are starting to resemble post-Invincibles Arsenal, except they didn't have your money.
Standards at the club have dropped significantly in the last eight years. I don't think anyone could possibly argue with that.
Agreed. Since I did play a full season of Sunday league last year, I also consider myself a better player than Van Dijk at the moment.
Yeah, because Sunday League and the Prem are comparable
Maguire had a pretty good Euros too. If his and Dias' performances were swapped at the Euros, you wouldn't hear the end of how overrated Maguire is from the media.
I don't think I've seen the cafe ever overrate a team more than the current Chelsea squad.
I rate Maguire. He's just not nearly on the same level as Van Dijk, and to conclude that he's suddenly a better player just because Van Dijk has been injured is too much for me. That's what I was aiming at with my comment.Yeah, because Sunday League and the Prem are comparable
Maguire had a pretty good Euros too. If his and Dias' performances were swapped at the Euros, you wouldn't hear the end of how overrated Maguire is from the media.
Think it would be fair to say that the jury is still out on him but if he's just anywhere near his level pre-injury, he's comfortably a better defender and overall player than Maguire. It's a tough injury but ACL's aren't as difficult to come back from anymore as they used to be either, so let's see how it plays out.
That's fair. You do usually lose some explosivity following an ACL - I'd still expect VVD to be a really good defender, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball etc, but perhaps missing a yard or two of pace with a drop off in acceleration. I guess that would have been coming anyway, now that he's the wrong side of 30, but the ACL has probably accelerated things a bit in term of a physical decline. Will still be among the top 5 CBs in the league I expect.
I am really at loss here, are we overratting our team or are the pundits and ABUs underrattting us?
And I really dont get the hyping of Chelsea, they appear still average for me with little to no goals apart from Lukaku.
And I really dont get the hyping of Chelsea, they appear still average for me with little to no goals apart from Lukaku.
Depends on what you're looking to rate against. Calling it, this season will have the leadline "PSG vs. everyone" and the biggest goal will be to take that "dream team" down. When I read that headline I knew it was open season on PSG this year.
I started it, kinda got triggered on purpose. That lot should just keep quite for a while.
Having Liverpool that high feels like you're looking through the lens of this being 2019 instead of 2021. Mane and Firmino have been declining with the latter being frustratingly bad in front of goal for a "9". They lost Wijnaldum while Thiago was questionable in his impact last year and Henderson is yet another year older. The backline all falls on how VVD recovers and whether Konate can settle and stay healthy.
Just seems like they are a bit past it as a XI with key players coming off crap seasons and injuries all over, and haven't really made any purchases to reinforce the attack or midfield.
He's kinda old and not very good.
Let's arrange it a bit better than your biased view:
Alisson -> Henderson/De gea
Trent -> AWB
Matip = Maguire
VvD = Varane
Robertson = Shaw
Fabinho -> McTom
Henderson <- Pogba
Thiago <- Bruno
Salah -> Sancho
Jota/Firmino <- Cavani
Mane -> Rashford's
That's 5 players where you are clearly better and 3 United clearly is, while 3 is tied. Of your 5 that is clearly better some United fans will argue they prefer our options of Sancho and Rashford to your options in those positions based on the potential level they could reach and of our 3 some of your fans would argue they prefer Henderson and Firmino for the kind of system your team plays. But all in all I think the above comparison is fair enough.
Slighty random order after
PSG
City
Chelsea
Juventus
United
Bayern
Barcelona
Atlético
Madrid
Inter
(11th would be Sevilla or Liverpool).
PSG
City
Chelsea
Juventus
United
Bayern
Barcelona
Atlético
Madrid
Inter
(11th would be Sevilla or Liverpool).
Eden Hazard was one of the best players from PL, and until now has been a flop in La Liga.
Maguire is better than Matip and VvD is better than Varane
1. PSG
2. City
3. Chelsea
4. Barca
5. Atletico
6. Bayern
7. Real Madrid
8. United
9. Dortmund
10. Ajax
2. City
3. Chelsea
4. Barca
5. Atletico
6. Bayern
7. Real Madrid
8. United
9. Dortmund
10. Ajax
He's not wrong. You guys are definitely below us. We have the best defence in the league on Paper. Shaw Maguire Varane AWB. Then we have Pogba AND Bruno! And upfront Rashford Sancho Greenwood Martial and Cavani. We are first or second on Paper in the league without a doubt.
Welcome newbie. You're going to be a blast.
It’s just nice to see us being recognized again. Not that any of these arbitrary lists matter mind you.
Reverse is also true. VvD is better than Maguire and Varane is better than Matip. What matters most, is who works better as a unit. Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
We will finish above Liverpool and Maguire will have a better season than VVD.
I don't agree VvD is better than Varane but that's just my opinion.