I'm mad and upset.......

[Lappen]

It's a good debate that one, personally I think players must follow the coach's plan. I mean sure sometimes like yesterday it was clear as water that it wasn't working and a change should been made. But if each player feels that freedom to correct his role in the set up of the tactic we'll end up with a total disorder.

Of course there are "free roles" that allow players to play like they think it suits the game better, but most of those roles are for offensive players. Defensive ones should always follow the tactics in my opinion.

Of course there can't be people running around like fools, and for sure Ole needs to do some couching during the game. But there is a captain on the pitch and some really experience footballers out there who knows when the defence or attack doesn't work like the plan was suppose to.
If the low defence- line doesn't work our captain should push up a bit for example, ore if Matic end up in Maguires lap he need to kick his as and move him higher up.
And I saw to many players not doing good enough, even if the game-plan was wrong, to just blame the plan.
It could still be on Ole if players can't switch on for a game, so its not to protect Ole I blame the effort...

 

[Bilbo]

Staggers me that the coaching thing has never been brought up once by any journo far as I can recall

Why would it be? Look up the coaching staff at Chelsea or Liverpool. I've followed football closely my whole life and I've never heard of all but one of them. I bet most people haven't, and they haven't ever seen a real top level coaching session either. There's no real knowledge to back up criticism of coaches

 

[Karlos PFC]

Standards haven't dropped.. our team has been shit for like 5+ years. We are now starting to recruit the right players, but the reality of the situation is that Liverpool and city had much better teams over the previous years.
Looking at our previous seasons since saf retired, and sticking to that standard, we've definitely done relatively well.

That doesn't mean we don't want to win championships, But you have to work with what you got. Now we have a pretty solid squad, and we can aim for some trophies.There's other teams with a similar quality or better squads though, so that doesn't even guarantee PL or CL trophies anyway.

Our team WAS shit for the most part of the decade. But it has improved massively over the last 2 seasons. So by that we can't be satisfied with a distant 2nd place and a EL final that we managed to lose to an inferior side.

This year is make or break for Ole. As much as everyone loves him, he must deliver a trophy (PL or CL). We are on the same situation Chelsea was last year but unlike us they took a brave decision by letting Lampard go.

Work with what you got you say? How about Varane, Sancho, Maguire, Shaw, Rashford, VDB, De Gea?
In the 3,5 years of Ole same old story. No style of play, keep bottling every time that matters (all the semis and the EL final), our playing from the back is dreadful(it's just like we should play from the back because all the great team do but we can't for some reason), getting one over Pep or Klopp just for fans sake and lose on the long run.

Also a lot of posters in here keep saying that he is on par with Pep, Klopp, Tuchel etc just because we lost fewer games, but you win the league by winning more not losing less

 

[Lappen]

Staggers me that the coaching thing has never been brought up once by any journo far as I can recall

Luckhurts talks about Solskaers bad coaching in the Manchester Evening News today.

 

[meninred]

God ...how many wing players we have..
Sancho..rashford..martial..james..ligaard...mata..Diallo..pellistri..etc
almost a whole team

 

[el3mel]

2nd Place and a Europa League final not good enough for you? Of course it's not.

 

[youmeletsfly]

I'm no Ole inner(quite the opposite, I hate the guy even if I loved him as a player) but he needs 4-5 months with a fit and in form trio of Pogba, Bruno and Sancho. If the footie is still shit, he should be booted, along with the whole coaching staff.

But until then, it's 4 points out of two games at the start of the season, no need to moan and no need to blame him when he's forced to play for the EPL title with midfielders like Matic, Fred and Mctominay. (I love MCT's personality, but him and the other two are not even top15 material).

 

[NasirTimothy]

What does it mean that we are 'supposed to challenge for the title'

pretty self explanatory, no?

 

[croadyman]

Why would it be? Look up the coaching staff at Chelsea or Liverpool. I've followed football closely my whole life and I've never heard of all but one of them. I bet most people haven't, and they haven't ever seen a real top level coaching session either. There's no real knowledge to back up criticism of coaches

Yeah fair point but the big difference is the scousers and Chelsea have an elite manager whereas we clearly don't, that is why he needs to swallow his pride now and get some experienced coaching in alongside him

 

[croadyman]

Luckhurts talks about Solskaers bad coaching in the Manchester Evening News today.

But will he actually bring it up in a pre match presser is the big question

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah fair point but the big difference is the scousers and Chelsea have an elite manager whereas we clearly don't, that is why he needs to swallow his pride now and get some experienced coaching in alongside him

I suppose he could recruit from the Caf, seeing as we have world class coaches on here. They tend to make an appearance on the match day thread

 

[honirelandboy]

We are a top four club and nothing more at the minute.

AWB. Fred, Scott, Matic are just not good enough and this needs to be rectified as soon as possible.

Martial is not a manchester united standard player and Cavani is 34.
Greenwood needs another year or two.
Rashford is good but will he win you the league?

Some people need to realize we are simply not that good.

 

[croadyman]

I suppose he could recruit from the Caf, seeing as we have world class coaches on here. They tend to make an appearance on the match day thread

He should have been recruiting a couple when he got the job permanently not now

 

[Bilbo]

Yeah fair point but the big difference is the scousers and Chelsea have an elite manager whereas we clearly don't, that is why he needs to swallow his pride now and get some experienced coaching in alongside him

I find it quite hard to believe that any manager would be able to run sub-par training sessions and not only keep his job for 3 years, but also manage to keep it secret enough in the football world that he can still convince players like Varane and Sancho to come here.

 

[croadyman]

I find it quite hard to believe that any manager would be able to run sub-par training sessions and not only keep his job for 3 years, but also manage to keep it secret enough in the football world that he can still convince players like Varane and Sancho to come here.

I also point to the fact he has apparently openly said in interviews that coaching isn't his thing

 

[Bilbo]

I also point to the fact he has apparently openly said in interviews that coaching isn't his thing

Your criticism isn't about whether Ole can coach. It's been about whether our coaches can coach. Again, I don't know their ability level any better than the next man, but I have to assume that we'd fail to attract talent to the club if we had a bunch of pretenders at the club.

Nobody questions our coaching when we win, have you ever noticed that? It's weird. If Pogba scores his header our coaches aren't talked about at all this week

 

[Eli Zee]

Our team WAS shit for the most part of the decade. But it has improved massively over the last 2 seasons. So by that we can't be satisfied with a distant 2nd place and a EL final that we managed to lose to an inferior side.

This year is make or break for Ole. As much as everyone loves him, he must deliver a trophy (PL or CL). We are on the same situation Chelsea was last year but unlike us they took a brave decision by letting Lampard go.

Work with what you got you say? How about Varane, Sancho, Maguire, Shaw, Rashford, VDB, De Gea?
In the 3,5 years of Ole same old story. No style of play, keep bottling every time that matters (all the semis and the EL final), our playing from the back is dreadful(it's just like we should play from the back because all the great team do but we can't for some reason), getting one over Pep or Klopp just for fans sake and lose on the long run.

Also a lot of posters in here keep saying that he is on par with Pep, Klopp, Tuchel etc just because we lost fewer games, but you win the league by winning more not losing less

Our team is fantastic now. We still are missing an amazing striker up top (Greenwood too young, cavani old) who can lead the team almost every game, and a DM. That being said, our manager is not the best. Tuchel could probably do with us what he did with chelsea and get further in CL and more points in EPL than Ole ever can, in my opinion. Ole is great at recruitment but I don't think he is good enough to be managing at the top level.

I'm simply stating that this is a game of fine margins and we can't really go into anything expecting go to be champion. The team has to work to earn it every practice, every game. And even if they are the hardest working bunch in Europe, they can still lose on any given day. Fine margins and all that

 

[croadyman]

Your criticism isn't about whether Ole can coach. It's been about whether our coaches can coach. Again, I don't know their ability level any better than the next man, but I have to assume that we'd fail to attract talent to the club if we had a bunch of pretenders at the club.

Nobody questions our coaching when we win, have you ever noticed that? It's weird. If Pogba scores his header our coaches aren't talked about at all this week

I have questioned his coaching since the day he got the job permanently but can't speak for others obviously

 

[Bilbo]

I have questioned his coaching since the day he got the job permanently but can't speak for others obviously

You said yourself that Ole isn't intimately involved in coaching, so again the issue with whether our coaches can coach, no?

Its easy to be angry about something few people have inside knowledge of. Nobody can prove you're wrong any more than you can prove you're right, but isn't it logical to assume that sub standard coaching at such a high profile club would be known in football circles? If so, then we'd struggle to attract players of the calibre of Varane and Sancho. Cavani's been around the block once or twice too. He'd have run for the hills surely, not signed for another year.

 

[croadyman]

You said yourself that Ole isn't intimately involved in coaching, so again the issue with whether our coaches can coach, no?

Its easy to be angry about something few people have inside knowledge of. Nobody can prove you're wrong any more than you can prove you're right, but isn't it logical to assume that sub standard coaching at such a high profile club would be known in football circles? If so, then we'd struggle to attract players of the calibre of Varane and Sancho. Cavani's been around the block once or twice too. He'd have run for the hills surely, not signed for another year.

You make valid points about attracting the players, however think Fletcher had a big input in Varane signing and obviously the English connection in regards to Jadon as well. Yes I will give you that Ole played a big part in keeping Edi for another year but the coaching concerns are always going to be there without a top manager.

 

[Bilbo]

You make valid points about attracting the players, however think Fletcher had a big input in Varane signing and obviously the English connection in regards to Jadon as well. Yes I will give you that Ole played a big part in keeping Edi for another year but the coaching concerns are always going to be there without a top manager.

I'm a fan of Ole so obviously I think he gets a very hard time on this forum, but its important to try to be balanced. Has he made mistakes? Of course he has. Every manager does, but we don't forensically analyse those other managers in the same way. Its important to remember that he is competing against the best managers and the best teams in Europe in this league, and he has improved year on year and is rarely beaten. Never embarrassed.

My point is that I don't think he can be considered a 'top manager' until he wins a few tin pots, but he has done enough in my book to be in the 'very good manager' bracket, so I think it's time we started giving him the benefit of the doubt on certain things, and one of those things is his choice of coaches.

 

[croadyman]

I'm a fan of Ole so obviously I think he gets a very hard time on this forum, but its important to try to be balanced. Has he made mistakes? Of course he has. Every manager does, but we don't forensically analyse those other managers in the same way. Its important to remember that he is competing against the best managers and the best teams in Europe in this league, and he has improved year on year and is rarely beaten. Never embarrassed.

My point is that I don't think he can be considered a 'top manager' until he wins a few tin pots, but he has done enough in my book to be in the 'very good manager' bracket, so I think it's time we started giving him the benefit of the doubt on certain things, and one of those things is his choice of coaches.

Personally can't see him in the very good manager bracket I am afraid but you are welcome to your own opinion

 

[SAFMUTD]

Of course there can't be people running around like fools, and for sure Ole needs to do some couching during the game. But there is a captain on the pitch and some really experience footballers out there who knows when the defence or attack doesn't work like the plan was suppose to.
If the low defence- line doesn't work our captain should push up a bit for example, ore if Matic end up in Maguires lap he need to kick his as and move him higher up.
And I saw to many players not doing good enough, even if the game-plan was wrong, to just blame the plan.
It could still be on Ole if players can't switch on for a game, so its not to protect Ole I blame the effort...

I totally agree with you, specially the part about Maguire should be directing Matic as he's the captain.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Probably that clubs which spend 100+ million every season should be challenging for the biggest honours?

Arsenal so

 

[Crashoutcassius]

pretty self explanatory, no?

Who decides these things

 

[NasirTimothy]

Who decides these things

Probably United themselves by finishing second last season and then spending a boatload of money before the start of this season.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Arsenal so

Clearly not

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Can’t believe the reaction to United drawing a match away from home. Imagine if they lost, or draw a game at home, or shock/horror lost a game at home!

Of course peak Ferguson team that won the treble would never do that…

Oh wait, they drew 9 out of 19 away games in 1998/99, losing two more.

 

[RedRob]

Ole's massively improved a few things around the club. Signings appear to mostly be well-scouted and with a clear focus of addressing a gap, rather than the opportunistic or odd choices of the last few managers. Some players such as Shaw, Greenwood and Rashford have made real development in his tenure. The entire squad, whether they're getting game time or not, seems to respect him and his decisions - that's something that hasn't been seen since Fergie. The focus of the team seems to be getting forward and playing positively rather than strangling the life out of the game or containing opponents.

Specific to the weekend, the goal conceded was extremely unlucky, there's not a lot can be done with a deflection like that. There's more that a couple of players could have done before the actual shot (and arguably it should have been struck off for a foul anyway), but sometimes these things go against you. It happens. With a bit more luck, Pogba's shot that hit the crossbar in the first ten minutes goes in the top corner instead. Or Djenepo gets a second yellow for that foul on Fernandes immediately before he was substituted. Just bad luck on the day.

All that being said... all too often, we start games like a house on fire, only to completely drop off the pace after the first ten minutes. The only time I remember that happening under Fergie was the 2009 CL final, and that was traumatic. These days, it seems to cost us a lot of points, because it seems like we're trying to do 90 minutes' work in about 30. A few players have said that, despite appearances, Ole can knock heads together when he's annoyed - but it seems that the same casual attitude towards matches keeps cropping up every few games and little is getting done about it. Maybe it's just me, but that's a far bigger problem than any starting lineups, substitutions or formations that I've seen him opt for in the last number of months. It's not a characteristic of sides with serious title ambitions and it needs sorting.

 

[432JuanMata]

Can’t believe the reaction to United drawing a match away from home. Imagine if they lost, or draw a game at home, or shock/horror lost a game at home!

Of course peak Ferguson team that won the treble would never do that…

Oh wait, they drew 9 out of 19 away games in 1998/99, losing two more.

I don’t think it’s just the fact that we drew it’s more how we did it. This is the season that most fans expect a challenge but Sunday was a match that our fans have seen plenty of over 2 years. Performance wise I didn’t think we were too bad but it’s same problems. Also if we our to win the league these are the games we have to grind out. It looks like there will be 3/4 teams there and we can’t be playing catch-up

 

[RedBanker]

I was mad and upset for a second seeing the Lingard fella playing for us again. Never thought this would happen again. But then going round in circles is the new PROGRESH.

 

[justboy68]

Drawing away at one of the weaker teams in the league was just a downer after we were flying the high of the Leeds game and looking like we are really ready to challenge. In the 90's high 70 or low 80 point totals were usually enough to get you the title, so racking up away draws wasn't such an issue. But nowadays against the oil clubs, every game against a lower half team is a vital 3 points to have in the bag. Of course you can get away with a couple of these a season, but not too many. People are fearing the worst, because some of the problems don't seem to have changed much.

What we need to do is just make sure we bounce back strong and please, please just throw our top new signings in and stop messing around with them. Also Ole needs to make a decision on VDB sooner rather than later so we can at least recoup some of the money and get someone else in if he doesn't fancy him.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I was mad and upset for a second seeing the Lingard fella playing for us again. Never thought this would happen again. But then going round in circles is the new PROGRESH.

There's no progress really if you have to rely on Lingard to win you games against the likes of Southampton. Ole can't keep getting away with these nonsense results anymore.

I don’t think it’s just the fact that we drew it’s more how we did it. This is the season that most fans expect a challenge but Sunday was a match that our fans have seen plenty of over 2 years. Performance wise I didn’t think we were too bad but it’s same problems. Also if we our to win the league these are the games we have to grind out. It looks like there will be 3/4 teams there and we can’t be playing catch-up

Exactly this. It took a monumental feck up from Leicester the season we finished 3rd(we secured top 4 on gameweek 38) and last season we were inconsistent af but managed to finish second only because of how bad Liverpool were for a month or so and Chelsea's season spiraling down due to Lampard. You can't keep expecting these kinds of seasons from these teams anymore.

 

[432JuanMata]

There's no progress really if you have to rely on Lingard to win you games against the likes of Southampton. Ole can't keep getting away with these nonsense results anymore.


Exactly this. It took a monumental feck up from Leicester the season we finished 3rd(we secured top 4 on gameweek 38) and last season we were inconsistent af but managed to finish second only because of how bad Liverpool were for a month or so and Chelsea's season spiraling down due to Lampard. You can't keep expecting these kinds of seasons from these teams anymore.

Exactly this is suppose to be the season where we challenge nothing less. People saying basing this off the Southampton game is not what most are doing. It’s the same thing over and over again. We have a quality squad now and that is down to Ole. In that aspect he has done great but does he have the ability as a coach to lead this team to a successful title challenge? My guess is no.
The other 3 big teams all have CL winning managers with loads of domestic titles. Ole has won nothing so that is why people are questioning him and rightfully so.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

You don't get to manage the biggest club with nearly unlimited budget that constantly gets to go head to head with oil clubs for transfer funds without scrutinization? If anything he is being let go easy because he was a club legend. Is he correctly lauded as a PE teacher? Maybe not. But is he a manchester united manager?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So the love that Ole and the club got for a great window and a fantastic opening game of the season has now ended in doom and gloom and we're shite and we're all gonna get relegated and we're going to win nothing. Why? Because of a draw.



Here come the PE teacher comments....yawn....



....and the best one of the lot....somehow Ole THINKS he's the 2nd coming of Fergie......now ridiculous. Not even going to give it the time of day because it's that stupid of a post.

This forum will never be happy. It's always one way or the other. Hot or Cold. Why is everything so shite with Ole? Like why is it when we draw, it's simply just a draw. It's always the end of the world.

I'm fecking frustrated that every time this happens we always:

• Want to flirt with another manager.
• Want Ole to get the sack.
• Call all of our players shite.
• Give Ole a stupid "if he hasn't done x by x he should go" time frame.
• Disregard everything that he's done good, because of 1 draw.

It's the 2nd game of the season for fecks sake!

Just tell me why. Just one reasonable reason. Why that when we don't pummel a "lower table" team 5-0 (like this forum expects week in week out) that Ole should get the sack.

We now have a World Class team and that STILL isn't good enough for you.

De Gea
Varane
Maguire
Shaw
Bruno
Pogba
Sancho

That's A LOT of the first team and you would undoubtedly see someone say oh (One of those players above) is absolute dross and should be sold.

I'm so frustrated at our fanbase. Be upset that we drew yes. But don't be so frustrated after every time we don't win you call for a sacking.

amen

 

[Hackman2210]

#FREEDONNY

 

[troylocker]

Ah! Remember the old days under SAF and before that when we won every match every season. How we have fallen.

 

[cpresc]

We literally just equalled Arsenal’s record for best Away streak..

Hardly a sackable offence.

From what I saw the problem was with the lineup.. Martial just doesn’t move to make himself space, he’s incapable of being a nuisance like Cavani. As soon as Greenwood went central we started to cause more problems with better movement.

Sancho bedding in will fix this once he’s in the starting lineup, Martial won’t be and IMO should be sold with DvB asap

The other problem I saw was Bissaka. He quite simply is just not good enough in attack and our plays regularly break down when he’s involved. He’s ok in defence, sure, but we need more attacking dynamism for games like this. Likely Trippier was pencilled in for this, so let’s see.

We don’t need knee jerk reactions though.

Sancho and Varane will soon bed in. An attacking RB will hopefully join the squad and we’ll be good.

Add Haaland next year and we’re for sure Champions League contenders

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Man City had a DIRE performance against Spurs....yet people still would say they're favourites.

We had an amazing game against Leeds and an average one today. Where's the difference?

Oh yes this forum gives City more love than they do for their own club.

City won the league last year and reached a CL final.