I'm mad and upset.......

[Chairman Steve]

The season we last won the Champions League, our opening three games involved us drawing to Reading at home, then drawing to Pompey away and then losing to City away.

Its still very early in the season and the transfer window is still open. We could very well go out and buy a good central midfielder that fixes a lot of our problems and we’ve yet to see Cavani and Varane. Sancho has barely played an hour for us.

If we’re looking like we did in the last 20 mins yesterday in December, then questions have to be asked and I won’t care how you spin it to exonerate OGS from blame.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We now have a World Class team and that STILL isn't good enough for you.

I think the ambition of the club is to win major honours not boast of having 3-5 top class players. I could be wrong, maybe we're just looking for a transfer/big name trophy, but I'm skeptical of that being the case.

Fans should be mad and upset that we have won no big trophies for 8 years now post SAF. That's the reason to be mad and upset, not skepticism over a manager who has made some progress but achieved nothing.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Just take solace that these probably aren't intelligent people

Saw a lot of people say that we haven't improved from last season... Hopefully they realise that the same team started the game today as last season

I don’t have a dog in the fight but I’d imagine that the frustration is nothing to do with lack of intelligence. It’s to do with the fact that this is elite level competition and Man United are supposed to challenge for the title and the Champions League this year. Unlike a team like say Arsenal, they have a series of very winnable games to start the season. So I imagine it would have been nice to start the season with a run of wins, perhaps open up a gap at the top and show that you mean business. It seems that United don’t particularly plan on doing that.

 

[Karlos PFC]

2nd Place and a Europa League final not good enough for you? Of course it's not.

2nd place and EL final (lost) is good enough for you? Really?

Standards have dropped massively I see

 

[hobbers]

2nd Place and a Europa League final not good enough for you? Of course it's not.

This is redcafe not arsenalmania??

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No one is.

But it proves the team is good enough to challenge.

Not really, given we didn't actually challenge City.

 

[Denis79]

People are reactive and ridiculous but I can't shake that feeling that whilst Ole has done some excellent work bringing the tradition and feeling back to the club that he isn't the guy to take us on the final step.

I feel that this is the season that will reveal if he is the guy.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I think it's pretty widely accepted, at least, outside of the Ole extremists, that this is the season in which he really needs to deliver. He's built a good squad, spent a lot of money and has had almost three years to do so with no real pressure, something managers at big clubs almost never, ever get. If he doesn't challenge and we don't properly progress and get some silverware then he needs to go. I would go so far as to say that if by November we are languishing around top four and looking nowhere near a side that can challenge (again), he should be given the boot.

Yesterday was a prime example of the sort of fixtures we've struggled with since he took over, it's quite frustrating that we're still incapable of comfortably beating sides like Southampton at this point. If we keep having games like that we'll get nowhere.

Unfortunately it seems the extremists have already found a scapegoat for excuses in our midfield, and no doubt it'll be used throughout the season to defend him if we don't actively challenge and improve on before. I can see it already. "He needs a proper world class midfield to challenge for the title, you can't judge him til we get one."

 

[eselfor]

The lack of high technical ability in central midfield is so glaring. Ball retention and positional play is still bad, almost 3 years into Ole's management. That's on the manager. Watch the way City, Liverpool, and now Chelsea progress the ball. We are so behind.

 

[NasirTimothy]

I feel that this is the season that will reveal if he is the guy.

You’re absolutely right there. No place left to hide now. So both his haters and supporters have to be a bit patient: all will be revealed this season.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I don’t have a dog in the fight but I’d imagine that the frustration is nothing to do with lack of intelligence. It’s to do with the fact that this is elite level competition and Man United are supposed to challenge for the title and the Champions League this year. Unlike a team like say Arsenal, they have a series of very winnable games to start the season. So I imagine it would have been nice to start the season with a run of wins, perhaps open up a gap at the top and show that you mean business. It seems that United don’t particularly plan on doing that.

What does it mean that we are 'supposed to challenge for the title'

 

[romufc]

The game reminded me of last season, we started well then once they got the goal and settled down, we struggled to create chances.

The problem we have which has been ongoing for a while is the lack of control in this team. Last 20 minutes we gave the ball away so cheaply to Southampton, it was a joke. Matic, Fred, AWB were the main culprits of this, when your CM's are not keeping possession, you will not challenge for a title.

There has been no improvement in that from last season, we cannot transition from CB to create chances.

Lindelof takes 20 touches then passes to Shaw or Maguire who have 0 options because Lindelof has taken so long to pass, they are all being pressed. Its just dross.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Man Utd isn't good for some of your mental health. This place is full of negative cry babies.

 

[RUCK4444]

The game reminded me of last season, we started well then once they got the goal and settled down, we struggled to create chances.

The problem we have which has been ongoing for a while is the lack of control in this team. Last 20 minutes we gave the ball away so cheaply to Southampton, it was a joke. Matic, Fred, AWB were the main culprits of this, when your CM's are not keeping possession, you will not challenge for a title.

There has been no improvement in that from last season, we cannot transition from CB to create chances.

Lindelof takes 20 touches then passes to Shaw or Maguire who have 0 options because Lindelof has taken so long to pass, they are all being pressed. Its just dross.

I don’t think we started well to be honest, you could tell we were off it from the start, really slow build up from the back, dwelling on the ball, misplaced passing.

We had a few chances but they were set pieces where Southampton looked absolutely inept at defending. Just a really off day from everybody except Pogba and to an extent Mason.

A proper striker like Cavani would have made the difference yesterday. I don’t want to waste another minute on Martial.

 

[romufc]

I don’t think we started well to be honest, you could tell we were off it from the start, really slow build up from the back, dwelling on the ball, misplaced passing.

We had a few chances but they were set pieces where Southampton looked absolutely inept at defending. Just a really off day from everybody except Pogba and to an extent Mason.

A proper striker like Cavani would have made the difference yesterday. I don’t want to waste another minute on Martial.

This is the problem, we cannot afford off days against the likes of Southampton. Every point dropped is a problem if we want to challenge.

We cannot be slow and sluggish on the 2nd game of the season, that is not an excuse.

These are the same issues that cost us so many points last year, slow on the ball, dwelling on the ball, lack of passing and its the same culprits.

Ole needs to get rid of Lindelof at the back, the number of times I screamed at my TV when he had the ball and did not pass it quicker... its shocking.

Martial was clueless on and off the ball, couldn't hold the ball, couldnt dribble. He needs to sit out for a while.

 

[Lappen]

The game reminded me of last season, we started well then once they got the goal and settled down, we struggled to create chances.

The problem we have which has been ongoing for a while is the lack of control in this team. Last 20 minutes we gave the ball away so cheaply to Southampton, it was a joke. Matic, Fred, AWB were the main culprits of this, when your CM's are not keeping possession, you will not challenge for a title.

There has been no improvement in that from last season, we cannot transition from CB to create chances.

Lindelof takes 20 touches then passes to Shaw or Maguire who have 0 options because Lindelof has taken so long to pass, they are all being pressed. Its just dross.

You are absolutely right about this! Why couldn't we find anyone playing forward?

Both Maguire and Lindelöf found players or drove the ball forward on there one against Leeds for the hole game. Why didn't it happened yesterday?

 

[romufc]

You are absolutely right about this! Why couldn't we find anyone playing forward?

Both Maguire and Lindelöf found players or drove the ball forward on there one against Leeds for the hole game. Why didn't it happened yesterday?

We had Matic dropping deep into the CB's which meant there were very few options upfront. We kept giving the ball away which also stopped any momentum going forward.

Most people will tell you, to play against a low block, you need to move the ball quick, left to right, we were not doing that and everytime the ball went to AWB, it was never being retained.

 

[Lappen]

We had Matic dropping deep into the CB's which meant there were very few options upfront. We kept giving the ball away which also stopped any momentum going forward.

Most people will tell you, to play against a low block, you need to move the ball quick, left to right, we were not doing that and everytime the ball went to AWB, it was never being retained.

Didnt matic start dropping lower in the second half? First half I felt like we were playing with Matic and Fred the same way we played McFred against Leeds.

I agree on everything you say! But if they pressed the wide players, there would be space in the middle. I just can't see why we didn't perform better. Did Southampton put on a better press than Leeds? Sounds wrong thinking about what Leeds is about.

Was it just a matter of effort from the players?

 

[LoneStar]

Love how some random people behind a keyboard think they are a world class manager who can do a better job.

This argument doesn't make much sense. Why even bother having a forum to discuss this when none of us know what happens behind the scenes?

If you need to be a world class manager to comment on someone's performance, no football forum should exist.

 

[tenpoless]

At least youre not angry and confused

 

[romufc]

Didnt matic start dropping lower in the second half? First half I felt like we were playing with Matic and Fred the same way we played McFred against Leeds.

I agree on everything you say! But if they pressed the wide players, there would be space in the middle. I just can't see why we didn't perform better. Did Southampton put on a better press than Leeds? Sounds wrong thinking about what Leeds is about.

Was it just a matter of effort from the players?

I have no idea what went wrong but it did look like we ran out of steam. I think the lack of effort showed from some players, Martial, Matic, AWB, Fred, CB's were just not at the races, very sloppy on the ball.

Southampton didn't really press, when the CB's hold the ball for a period of time, the opposition has enough time to man mark everyone leaving AWB, Maguire, Lindelof free. It is a tactic used widely against us. This is why having a CM that can pass and receive under pressure is crucial.

 

[largelyworried]

I have no idea what went wrong but it did look like we ran out of steam. I think the lack of effort showed from some players, Martial, Matic, AWB, Fred, CB's were just not at the races, very sloppy on the ball.

This has been a problem throughout Ole's time. When the game is pumping and the adrenaline is high, the team excels. When it's all a bit more routine and we just need to follow some well-rehearsed passing routines to get the ball into good areas, we come up short. I don't think it's a lack of effort exactly, I just think there are lots of situations where the players don't know what to do and start winging it. This leads to lost possession or fruitless attempts to do something overly clever, which fails, and saps even more momentum. You can see players starting to take 3 or 4 touches on the ball while they try and figure out what to do next when they should already have figured out responses to certain situations on the training ground.

 

[RUCK4444]

This is the problem, we cannot afford off days against the likes of Southampton. Every point dropped is a problem if we want to challenge.

We cannot be slow and sluggish on the 2nd game of the season, that is not an excuse.

These are the same issues that cost us so many points last year, slow on the ball, dwelling on the ball, lack of passing and its the same culprits.

Ole needs to get rid of Lindelof at the back, the number of times I screamed at my TV when he had the ball and did not pass it quicker... its shocking.

Martial was clueless on and off the ball, couldn't hold the ball, couldnt dribble. He needs to sit out for a while.

Yeah agree, it’s a worry these slow starts, Ole is aware of them as he’s mentioned them dozens of times but as you say it’s the same culprits, slowing the game relentlessly.

I want to see Varane in for Likdelof and Cavani in for Martial.

I’m not getting too irate (although I was furious yesterday with the performance) as we still haven’t properly bedded the new lads. Now is the time though, use this performance as a warning and up our levels massively from here.

 

[SATA]

Still seething about yesterday's result. Cannot wait for Sunday soon enough to put things right again. Ole wasted 60 mins to field Martial, now let's hope he gives this 60 mins to Cavani at Wolves

 

[Reddevildans]

Having reflected on the game I'm still very disappointed with the result. Especially considering how poor the opposition were and the confidence we played with against Leeds. I'm more frustrated with the repeated mistakes Ole makes and never seems to learn from. Lack of ruthlessness and a deep loyalty to a few select players. In game management and timing of subs is another area of weakness. I thought we moved away from being pragmatic and risk averse when we got rid of jose but we havnt with ole. The whole point with buying Varane was to drop the double pivot and move higher up the pitch. This better be the approach from now.

 

[b82REZ]

What does it mean that we are 'supposed to challenge for the title'

Thought you were one of the intelligent ones?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What does it mean that we are 'supposed to challenge for the title'

Probably that clubs which spend 100+ million every season should be challenging for the biggest honours?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

People are reactive and ridiculous but I can't shake that feeling that whilst Ole has done some excellent work bringing the tradition and feeling back to the club that he isn't the guy to take us on the final step.

Many on here probably share that feeling.

Including posters who would count as "Ole inners" on the surface.

There's a minority of pathetic cnuts (sorry - but that's what they are) who genuinely do not want him to succeed (because they've declared him a fraud/PE teacher/whatever in no uncertain terms already - and desperately want to be proven right) - and a corresponding minority of posters who overdo the whole "stand by yer manager" stance.

It's a minority either way, though. Most fans think Ole has been an improvement on his predecessors in the post-SAF era. And...that'll have to do for now.

 

[Kelly15]

We have a entitled fan base. No matter how good we do thier will always be moaners. Arm chair managers who think they can do better. Even when Fergie was crushing the league we had people moaning about zombie football. Wanting him out. Some people are never happy.

 

[the_answer]

The issue with Ole is the same issue as with recruiting at any company.
Would that employee have gotten the job only based on what he has shown and the potential he has?
Or did he get the job because he is best mate with some other manager?

Ole has not proven on the highest level that he can do it.
The only reason he got the United job is because he used to play there.
If we assume the same person with the same playing and managing career Ole had but without the United legend status, would he coach United? I dont think so.

Now if Ole left United, would he get any other top job in world football?
Conte, Poch, or Tuchel all got top jobs after managing Chelsea, Tottenham and PSG. Pep or Klopp could go to any club or national team in the world.
Would Bayern Munich or Juventus ever employ Ole?

Now looking at the football Ole seems to be a decent man manager, but not he cannot drill a team and create a system that wins consistently.
So just looking at the football, the way we play, where is Oles input?

This all doesn't mean he is a bad manager, he is doing ok. But ok isn't the standard of United.
United did not become the largest club in the world (arguably with Real) by doing ok.

 

[SAFMUTD]

You are absolutely right about this! Why couldn't we find anyone playing forward?

Both Maguire and Lindelöf found players or drove the ball forward on there one against Leeds for the hole game. Why didn't it happened yesterday?

Because Southampton doesn't play as open as Leeds. Also the fact that Matic was playing in the same line as the CBs made really difficult to find someone in midfield where Fred was basically alone, so when he had the ball he had to try risky passes which mostly resulted in lost possession since he doesn't have the skill to do them.

It's was a clear tactical mistake from us.

 

[Ali Dia]

Because Southampton doesn't play as open as Leeds. Also the fact that Matic was playing in the same line as the CBs made really difficult to find someone in midfield where Fred was basically alone, so when he had the ball he had to try risky passes which mostly resulted in lost possession since he doesn't have the skill to do them.

It's was a clear tactical mistake from us.

Matic lost the ball nearly 50% more than fred too but maybe that’s because he stayed on for the whole game but either way one of the worst midfield displays I’ve seen from him and that’s saying something at this stage.

Anyway we move on. Good teams lose and draw. There’d be no such thing as bookies otherwise. It’s how we respond against wolves that matters now. Ole needs to manage the likes of Matic and Martial back to being impact players who have one foot out the door, that’s what their performances warrant. It’s up to them to show him in those more limited minutes that they are still hungry and talented enough to still be involved. Starting them was overconfidence and a tad sentimental I think given both looked finished here for large parts of last season. Hopefully that’s the end of it for now.

 

[Lappen]

Because Southampton doesn't play as open as Leeds. Also the fact that Matic was playing in the same line as the CBs made really difficult to find someone in midfield where Fred was basically alone, so when he had the ball he had to try risky passes which mostly resulted in lost possession since he doesn't have the skill to do them.

It's was a clear tactical mistake from us.

Yes you could be right, but shouldn't our player be able to adjust things like that without Ole telling them what to do. Or is our fotballintelegens on the pitch that bad? If so, no wonder we always struggles the first half....

I honestly belive it was a lack of attitude. This team can beat any team in the world, if the attitude is right.
If I'm right, and I know I could be totally wrong, I hope Ole makes the hole team do some running today. (My old coach made us run until we puked if the effort wasn't good enough:0)

 

[croadyman]

Yes you could be right, but shouldn't our player be able to adjust things like that without Ole telling them what to do. Or is our fotballintelegens on the pitch that bad? If so, no wonder we always struggles the first half....

I honestly belive it was a lack of attitude. This team can beat any team in the world, if the attitude is right.
If I'm right, and I know I could be totally wrong, I hope Ole makes the hole team do some running today. (My old coach made us run until we puked if the effort wasn't good enough:0)

I do worry that sometimes because he is a fellow scandanavian you sometimes are a bit blinded by Ole, look if I am way off the mark then fair enough but just think sometimes his faults need to be acknowledged a little bit more than they are

 

[Bilbo]

I do worry that sometimes because he is a fellow scandanavian you sometimes are a bit blinded by Ole, look if I am way off the mark then fair enough but just think sometimes his faults need to be acknowledged a little bit more than they are

The modern Redcafe poster - as a collective - is awful at many, many things. Acknowledging Oles 'faults' has never been one of them

 

[croadyman]

The modern Redcafe poster - as a collective - is awful at many, many things. Acknowledging Oles 'faults' has never been one of them

Staggers me that the coaching thing has never been brought up once by any journo far as I can recall

 

[Eli Zee]

2nd place and EL final (lost) is good enough for you? Really?

Standards have dropped massively I see

Standards haven't dropped.. our team has been shit for like 5+ years. We are now starting to recruit the right players, but the reality of the situation is that Liverpool and city had much better teams over the previous years.
Looking at our previous seasons since saf retired, and sticking to that standard, we've definitely done relatively well.

That doesn't mean we don't want to win championships, But you have to work with what you got. Now we have a pretty solid squad, and we can aim for some trophies.There's other teams with a similar quality or better squads though, so that doesn't even guarantee PL or CL trophies anyway.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Yes you could be right, but shouldn't our player be able to adjust things like that without Ole telling them what to do. Or is our fotballintelegens on the pitch that bad? If so, no wonder we always struggles the first half....

I honestly belive it was a lack of attitude. This team can beat any team in the world, if the attitude is right.
If I'm right, and I know I could be totally wrong, I hope Ole makes the hole team do some running today. (My old coach made us run until we puked if the effort wasn't good enough:0)

It's a good debate that one, personally I think players must follow the coach's plan. I mean sure sometimes like yesterday it was clear as water that it wasn't working and a change should been made. But if each player feels that freedom to correct his role in the set up of the tactic we'll end up with a total disorder.

Of course there are "free roles" that allow players to play like they think it suits the game better, but most of those roles are for offensive players. Defensive ones should always follow the tactics in my opinion.

 

[Lappen]

I do worry that sometimes because he is a fellow scandanavian you sometimes are a bit blinded by Ole, look if I am way off the mark then fair enough but just think sometimes his faults need to be acknowledged a little bit more than they are

:0) as a swede we mostly don't fancy Norwegians... and they don't fancy us swedes...

I am worried about Ole and I think he does to many mistakes. But against Southampton I felt that the team he picked should have done better. The players need to react to what the opponents do without Ole tells them to.
I can't say exactly whay, but the players disappointed me in this game more than what Ole did.

I think Ole is building a great team both for this year and for the future... but if he can't handle the team its for no use. Like baying a Lamborghini when you like to cruise... :0)

 

[Pooley247]

I still can’t believe the fact after 3 seasons ole is inept to change and react within a game, he has a plan A (barely a plan) and sticks with it for the 90 minutes regardless. After a first half showing like that would a Klopp, Pep or Tuchel just be sat down in their seat, waiting for the 60th minute. No, they’d be proactive and switch it up.

I can barely think of any games we’ve dominated, unless it’s Leeds or teams that go at us.We rely on individual brilliance to win us games and this season that luck might run out.I want ole to succeed, but I’m not sure he’s learning as we’ve all seen these mistakes before.