Roma and Juve dumped them out in previous years. Liverpool crushed them the year after. Two limp defeats with Pogba and Lukaku and Rashford in the team. I think not being able to even lay a glove on them in two games is really poor considering many other teams beat them or gave them a good game.
We are an awfully coached team
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Roma and Juve dumped them out in previous years. Liverpool crushed them the year after. Two limp defeats with Pogba and Lukaku and Rashford in the team. I think not being able to even lay a glove on them in two games is really poor considering many other teams beat them or gave them a good game.
That's better.
Yeah the difference being that Fergie moved with the times in terms of coaching by bringing in the likes of Rene & Carlos in the mid 00's whereas Ole is strangely happy to just rely on Utd old boys with little coaching experience is my point
Liverpool crushed them the same year. Three weeks later in fact.
But while that is true, Liverpool also lost a game to them 3-0 and they were also a team that finished some 30 points above us in the league. We were not on Liverpool's level. Ole did inherit a shambles from Mourinho and it's not really fair to judge him on those games.
Distant second and second tier European tournament finalists to be fair. No one would be complaining if we lost the league on the last days and lost the UCL final. But that kind of tiny details matter.
I agree, when people say we are poorly coached they're taking the reference of a big club. I guess if you want them to specify we aren't as well coached as City, Chelsea or Liverpool is fair. In the same way when criticizing a player we should specify he's not good as world-class players. Because against pub players they'll certainly be incredible.
Yeah would say that stance pretty much sums up the majority of match going fans
Is it though? Given the context of the opposition in those games?
He's not managed to win an away game in the CL that we were expected to win yet. We've lost against Istanbul, Leipzig and YB now. We're struggling against the minnows that we need to beat to qualify. Playing poorly too.
What frustrates me is the feeling or perception about us wasting time and with that our chances to really win big titles. This season will be our best talent wise, next one we'll have an older Ronaldo and older Cavani, possibly be without Pogba and while young players like Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood can still improve I don't think the others will. I think we are seeing Bruno's, Maguire's Varane's and Pogba's best version of themselves. As time goes by the natural thing is their level to drop.
So I'm frustrated that many here are ok with giving Ole another season without preassure, "well yeah lest give him a season to prove himself before we judge him". Well guess what, our team will be weaker next season, all logic points to that so the time is now.
This is our peak, why waste it with Ole? We should have brought a world-class manager a long time ago. Unfortunately the season has already started so we can't be as reactionary to sack Ole right now. But I'd say December is a good time to evaluate and change. It's been proven half season changes can make a positive impact so if nothing miraculously changes and we still arent looking as a well drilled team by December we should definitely pull the trigger.
So I'm frustrated that many here are ok with giving Ole another season without preassure, "well yeah lest give him a season to prove himself before we judge him". Well guess what, our team will be weaker next season, all logic points to that so the time is now.
This is our peak, why waste it with Ole? We should have brought a world-class manager a long time ago. Unfortunately the season has already started so we can't be as reactionary to sack Ole right now. But I'd say December is a good time to evaluate and change. It's been proven half season changes can make a positive impact so if nothing miraculously changes and we still arent looking as a well drilled team by December we should definitely pull the trigger.
Letting stuff like this out is not going to improve the moods of people like myself who doubt the ability of Ole and his coaching staff
Well to be fair many pointed out that we won't win a thing with Ole, until today he hasn't proved any of those wrong. It's three years and counting.
Why pick up on Liverpool, it was just an aside. Roma lost to Barca but also beat them to dump them out the year before our two losses with no goals. We had no threat is the main point, while an average Roma team could give them a game and even knock them out. It's not just results, it's the shambles and non displays that litter the record of 7 losses out of 11. Leipzig away we're two down in minutes.
The Barca match was really a free shot as it was early in Ole's time, I think it's more disappointing when taking everything into account but can understand how some might not want to include it.
I'm pretty supportive of Ole but CL shows he still has to learn a lot fast, it's been a major stumbling block for him. With the squad now we should get through but some of the decisions during the Young Boys loss are really bad. I can accept a loss in those circumstances but taking Fred off after already reducing the midfield with a few minutes to go and end up with Lingard there, I knew there and then it was going to end up 2-1. The time he should've taken Fred off was against PSG before getting sent off but didn't and we again lose that and that follows on to the shambles of the away game at Leipzig where he got it totally wrong. I hope for his and our sake he can have a few calm games and look back at the mess becasue when he has to make important decisions in previous games and our very latest he's been left wanting.
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Not only that, it's our best chance because Liverpool didn't strengthen and City didn't get Kane or any kind of decent striker. Now is our best chance for sure.
To be fair, if you're not good at something you might as well let others do it.
But then you still need to decide how you want to play (formation and tactics) and choose people with a proven pedigree. Coaches who have worked in teams that played and successfully implemented that style.
You can hire people who don't have that experience and who make it up as they go along, improving with trial and error. But that is a long and arduous road and you might find yourself out the door before you figure it out.
Precisely but some will keep using just to defend Ole to the hilt, have even seen it used from some of the guys on Paddock
Its a pity a club like UTD doesnt have a proper elite coaching staff
Is not only that defeat, it's the game against wolves and Southampton in which we were extremely lucky to have won and tied respectively.
Matter of fact it's we've looked poor in 3 out of 5 games this season, it's the same rollercoaster performances we've been seeing for over two years now.
It's not steady progress, actually the best we've been with Ole was after the covid break two seasons ago. After that I don't think we've reached that heights and it's all been either really highs and lows frequently. We can crush Leipzig and win in Paris but lose in Turkey in the next 15 days. Same today, I think we could beat City and lose to Norwich in the same week, who the feck knows.
Ask yourself this: If you were a novice in a high-profile new job, would you surround yourself with people equally as inexperienced and unproven as you or would you try and surround yourself with the best? People that you can learn from. People that will cover the things that you lack. It seems absolutely brainless on the part of Ole and on the club to let him furnish the bench with coaches as inexperienced as he is. One, sure but to have both of them - nuts! You only have to look at what happened to Jose once he got rid of Rui Faria to see the importance of having good coaches.
It's no wonder we see Ole constantly in conversation with Mckenna and Carrick. None of them has a clue.
Can not believe United, one of the biggest football clubs and brands in the world would allow this level of amateurishness.
Then again when you see how they deal with everything else, maybe I do.
Couldn't agree more with you it's utterly amateur but certainly not the least bit surprising
Absolutely superb post and a point that definitely gets lost with many staunch supporters of Ole
Mate that post is very definition of Harry Hindsight. What good does that rant do? Unless you can go back in time to stop Woody from giving him the contract, or put Dalot off so that he misses his shot entirely. The end bit is almost exactly how the rest of us feel, except we have actual defined criteria, like getting knocked out of the CL groups or going on a bad losing run.
Good post and I agree with the sentiment except for one significant point: I think the dice have fallen already. Which is just as good as it isn't good. Like you said, sure there is a chance, that we can bring someone in January who can have a great effect, but how likely is that? There are Tuchel-situations, but they are just as rare as the total feckups are rare. And like you also said, to come to the conclusion that we have to use the emergency exit, shit must have hit the fan already, so what is really there to be gained?
Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed from evaluating the manager position, far from it. But I am pretty unsure, if it would be a wise decision to change it halfway through the season. We have to be smart. For once be smart, lets not get carried away by emotions (be that happiness like the premature permanent manager decision or be it disappointment in our fictional scenario). I want the club to evaluate the position and the outlook, to take a decision but do it behind closed doors, pull strings in the background to learn about availabilities. I pray to god that we are already constantly having somebody on the watch to scout managers and I hope there is some research we can make use of when the day is there, but let this be a smart decision with as much pressure as possible.
Everybody can think of Ole whatever he/she wants but he managed to set the bar higher than Moyes, LVG and Mourinho did. We have something to lose lets not waste that, this thinking got us the three guys I mentioned.
"3 of the other top 7 sides in the PL last season played a 4-2-3-1 in the majority of games" is not an opinion.
"No other side in the top 7 of the PL after four games this season plays a 4-2-3-1" isn't an opinion either, of course.
But I'll leave it to you to decide which of these facts carries more weight when you're trying to argue an entire formation is dated: the one measured over 4 games or the one measured over 38 :')
The Europa Roma games can get forgotten about but we were 2-1 down at OT, the response was great of course but we pretty much just went for it after calamitous start, we can be very lethal. We then go to Rome and lose 3-2, not so bad scoreline, watch the game for context and they were very close to knocking us out, De Gea is just blocking point blank shots on autopilot, we absolutely collapsed in that game as well, our goal for the match was like an arkanoid arcade game, Roma should've had a lot more goals. Setup and preparations are a very bad running theme in Europe then it's all flung out the window, we then just blitz teams.
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And Young. Trying to Cruyff turn Messi 20 yards from goal.
What was the thread title changed to? Idle curiosity like.
Don't remember the specifics but it was "Moanchester United fans are an awful fanbase" or something along those lines
I doubt he cares about your opinion or mine on his tactical abilities tbh. As long as the players buy into it then that's what counts.
No, it was we are an awfully supported team. The change was so subtle that I didn't even notice until the OP protested.
accurate enough. I can imagine piss was bolied.Sneaky.
Jesus, just let it go.
Looking back at your post history that will be hard for you to do.
Ah come on. There is of course a certain arbitrary nature to football and football results.
My point is Ole keeps on making bad decisions .
The club by the standards I've seen in previous periods and looking at the current well drilled teams of late (Flicks Bayern, Pep's Barcelona / City, Tuchels Chelsea etc) United play a very poor brand of football. There's no use sugarcoating it, no use finding statistics to state how much possession the team has. Ole's management doesn't pass the eye test and it never will. He doesn't have the credentials nor the philosophy to change this narrative.
Somehow however the team is effective enough to still drag wins over the line, score enough goals and genuinely offer mediocre entertainment aesthetically which is better but not good compared to what was witnessed under Mourinho.
The biggest issue with this is that United don't play from a sustainable foundation and this effects the consistency in the team to maintain good performances. Hence why one game things will click and the very next fixture the midfield are unable to string 3 passes together. The tactical approach seems very reactive as opposed to being methodical from offering the team's strengths. For example most teams will require an adjustment to play city, liverpool (in form) because of their movement, possession, phases of play. When we consider United however there's no cohesion in the team to signify having a real identity.
I feel like this is going to be the same question asked if Solskjaer is in charge in 12 months or the next 3 years. He needs to make strides with the tactical side of the team because the bigger expectation for the season ahead is to win.
The solution I feel is if Ole by some miracle gave the team an identity which influences the principles of play a trophy would likely follow because everything else is in place. The mentality of the players seems correct, the quality of the team (balance) is correct and the individual qualities of the players is there if needed to come over the line in the event of a stalemate. The coaching, tactical approach is the last piece of the jigsaw. Even the hierarchical structure has made positive strides with the apparent restructuring of Woodward's assumed responsibility. Ole is the only individual that determines the rest. No excuses the team / Ole should be playing better football.
Somehow however the team is effective enough to still drag wins over the line, score enough goals and genuinely offer mediocre entertainment aesthetically which is better but not good compared to what was witnessed under Mourinho.
The biggest issue with this is that United don't play from a sustainable foundation and this effects the consistency in the team to maintain good performances. Hence why one game things will click and the very next fixture the midfield are unable to string 3 passes together. The tactical approach seems very reactive as opposed to being methodical from offering the team's strengths. For example most teams will require an adjustment to play city, liverpool (in form) because of their movement, possession, phases of play. When we consider United however there's no cohesion in the team to signify having a real identity.
I feel like this is going to be the same question asked if Solskjaer is in charge in 12 months or the next 3 years. He needs to make strides with the tactical side of the team because the bigger expectation for the season ahead is to win.
The solution I feel is if Ole by some miracle gave the team an identity which influences the principles of play a trophy would likely follow because everything else is in place. The mentality of the players seems correct, the quality of the team (balance) is correct and the individual qualities of the players is there if needed to come over the line in the event of a stalemate. The coaching, tactical approach is the last piece of the jigsaw. Even the hierarchical structure has made positive strides with the apparent restructuring of Woodward's assumed responsibility. Ole is the only individual that determines the rest. No excuses the team / Ole should be playing better football.
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That is the same assessment I have about the coaching staff. We put the bar low because Carrick and McKenna are as inexperienced as Ole is at the top level, and it's unacceptable. The fact that no one has ever properly replaced Rui Faria since he left at the very least is a very damning state of affairs.
Until something radically changes in our fortunes, I still stick by my opinion that Ole bears the hallmark of any weak manager when he doesn't surround himself with people who can provide solid second opinions and even challenge some of the tactical decisions put forward by him.
No. And many of you won't like the alternative. The modmin team have had an utter gutful of the emotive and irrational negativity on here. And no that doesn't you can't criticise something e.g. we really need a top class DM, but so many posters seem to be channelling this bloke at a time that Ole has made 3 top class signings and United are top of the Premier League.
Looking back Chris Crocker was 100 % right, though!
And the pathetically dramatic delivery so helped him get his point over.
Fergie didn't bring Rene into assist him externally, but rather he promoted him from with in the club. Rene was brought to the club in 2001 to work with kids (ages 6-11) in the academy and was later promoted to he first team as assistant after Queiroz departed.
Yeah, I’m curious how many teams end up getting a result after being reduced to 10 men and then switching to a back 5?
Taking off Donny was a mistake because it meant we totally surrendered the midfield and thereby possession of the ball. I just rewatched the first half and they really were doing very little against our 4. I have no idea why Ole switched to a back 5 except it seemed his attitude was hold what we have. A difficult task when you totally surrender the ball and have a whole half of football against 11 men and a fierce crowd.
There were three changes to the title in about an hour yesterday morning, they were:
"Moanchester United are an awfully supported team"
"The modmins apologise for the title edit that implied the moaners were moaning and now fully accept that Ole is worse than Hitler"
"Sack Ole, sell Ronaldo, appoint Ted Lasso"
The second one was my favourite, this thread needed some light relief and @Wibble duly served it up!