They really want that 8 to 10 seconds back thats wasted on a public show of solidarity. Time is money for rich white men after all.
Marcos Alonso to stop taking the knee
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
- Start date
They really want that 8 to 10 seconds back thats wasted on a public show of solidarity. Time is money for rich white men after all.
Is ths really what you're getting out of this? You seem to be prepared to let players take the knee permanently, that's what you quoted me on. Again, why don't you go tell Zaha, Toney and Les Ferdinand to do this permanently?
So Alonso doesn’t want to take a knee because it is ‘losing strength’, does pointing to the word ‘respect’ is on his shirt show strength because it’s near his bicep? Farage is indeed proud.
They can take the knee for as many years as it takes to get the message drummed into peoples heads that skin colour shouldnt be a reason to abuse someone. I am very interested in why you have an issue with this!
He’s probably one of the worst people in football, he should be in prison for what he did years ago.
Yeah his track record probably isn't the best to be standing out like this. Anybody know if he also does anti racism work off the pitch?
My personal opinion is players really want to do things against racism create non profit organisation,give their 1 % of wages to educate society about racism and advertise anti racism things by themselves.
Give support to victims of racism financially medically and helping them to bring offenders to justice.
Those things actually help people suffered from racism rather than kneeling the symbolism but visibly no use to any one. So why African players started to feel uncomfortable with that.
First of all, I don't have an "issue" with it. We can debate on the effectiveness but if footballers collectively decide they want to continue, I'd say good for them, as long as they're comfortable with it. And if I recall correctly, the captains did decide collectively to continue the kneeling this season.
What I do have an issue with is this entitlement among you and others, completely disregarding the opinions of non-white footballers and club officials (Les Ferdinand) on this subject.
Who says all that isnt happening? A visible gesture is still important.
Surely people on this forum aren’t arguing against this sentiment.
Why am I entitled for defending taking the knee?
Again you have mentioned three names out of a very big group of players within the game You refuse to acknowledge that thats a very small sample of people and you refuse to acknowledge that every group is going to have those within it that disagree with the popular opinion. Im telling you that the vast majority of them are going to support it but thats not good enough for you.
You need to read these pages more mate.
This is the last time I'm gonna say this, I have an issue with the whole "I'd like them to do this permanently" sentiment.
Worries me that people actually argue against this.
Any player advertise anti racism stuff. I didn't see any thing like that. May be I don't know. But this symbolism created more problems than solved in my opinion.
Well I assume Alonso isn’t in any danger of racist chanting from the crowd at games, while Zaha is. Im aware Alonso gets his fair share of abuse, but it’s never racial. The abuse Alonso usually gets is also justified, while racial abuse is never justifiable.
turned up a few notches now
Not taking the knee is sort of fair enough, but I'd personally do it solely for not making a racist cnut like Nigel Farage proud of you.
The part that really gets me is booing it. If you think it's lost its meaning fine, but why would you vocally be against any form of protest against racism, be it futile or not. In the end any measure short of lobotomizing the entire human race is futile in stopping racism. We try and do our futile part nonetheless.
The part that really gets me is booing it. If you think it's lost its meaning fine, but why would you vocally be against any form of protest against racism, be it futile or not. In the end any measure short of lobotomizing the entire human race is futile in stopping racism. We try and do our futile part nonetheless.
Maybe he wants to so something else so that he stands out and by standing out the message can be somehow reinforced.
Agree with everyone here that is saying it’s his decision, free speech and he can do what he wants. He’s his own man after all.
Equally we have the same rights to disagree with him and condemn his decisions.
Equally we have the same rights to disagree with him and condemn his decisions.
I want racists banned for life from games and from social media. Is that good enough?
I’ve actively tried to stay away from discussions of race on this forum of late, the fact posters are arguing against taking the knee because a vocal minority aren’t doing so is partly why. I keep seeing the same 3 black names mentioned as if they’re the rule as opposed to the exception in this instance. When the feck did anyone hold Zaha, Toney & Ferdinand as standard bearers for equality, never but suddenly [some] posters want to place their opinions on a pedestal.
This place has an issue with race that it doesn’t want to face honestly, these topics go the same way every time.
He can do what he likes. Who cares.
That said my own view would if the team collective wanted to continue and felt it was still beneficial why not. It would seem attention seeking to make a point of not doing something so straightforward.
That said my own view would if the team collective wanted to continue and felt it was still beneficial why not. It would seem attention seeking to make a point of not doing something so straightforward.
Yes of course, and I fully agree with that notion.
Im not having a go at anyone in this thread but this is life now. Political happenings in the last 5 years have just given people the notion that their bullshit is socially acceptable now and they can openly treat people how they want and then get pissed when it turns out the rest of us dont like that and tell them to feck off.
Good.
Don’t know anything about Alonso but Farage is one of the most detestable people presently.
Clearly, those stopping the guy getting on the train. Takes a brave person to confront a snarling, pissed up and racist mob.
Condemn him for not doing something?
What I agree upon: if he believes the message isn't working, we do live in a world of "free speech" here in the UK where we should voice our opinions. This doesn't mean he's racist, he is saying he doesn't feel the message is as effective anymore, and we can't change the spots of a leopard. There isn't actually anything wrong with that.
Racists in the UK and across the world will simply not change their views of people that are not the same as them. Taking the knee every time will simply infuriate them further and push them to more hateful acts than converting them. The ones that target black footballers really are a minority of purely hateful, racist people that won't change their opinion even if their partner was saved by a doctor of different colour, their car was repaired on the motorway after breaking down by a mechanic of a different colour, or they had a leak in the house that was quickly fixed by a plumber of different colour. They just will be stuck in their ways and unfortunately wont change their opinions on those who are different to them by colour, and only can be punished by exposing them for who they are. These people typically aren't just racist, but are also homophobic, xenophobic, many other phobics you can list will be their beliefs.
Whereas, I disagree on: his one-man stand on an approach that was agreed upon amongst 20 clubs. As much as it's free speech, the message is combined as a collective, and everyone is participating to voice their beliefs. He should be speaking to his teammates and say if they are happy for him not to kneel whilst they continue the message. If they agreed together not to do so, then Chelsea should announce as a club they decide the message isn't working.
There are a good amount of Chelsea players of colour, and some may agree with him, some not. The point remains that if they want to continue the message they are portraying then they should unify and keep it going. We all do things we dont want to on behalf of others, so if he decides to stay standing whilst his teammates continue to kneel, who knows it may be his downfall due to team unity.
I understand that both my points may counteract one another, but again I see why both sides can be questioned. I don't see him as a racist, but someone who feels we can do more to fight injustice. It would be interesting to hear if anyone knows someone personally who has someone they know who has racist beliefs, who actually has changed their ways because of footballers taking the knee?
Racists in the UK and across the world will simply not change their views of people that are not the same as them. Taking the knee every time will simply infuriate them further and push them to more hateful acts than converting them. The ones that target black footballers really are a minority of purely hateful, racist people that won't change their opinion even if their partner was saved by a doctor of different colour, their car was repaired on the motorway after breaking down by a mechanic of a different colour, or they had a leak in the house that was quickly fixed by a plumber of different colour. They just will be stuck in their ways and unfortunately wont change their opinions on those who are different to them by colour, and only can be punished by exposing them for who they are. These people typically aren't just racist, but are also homophobic, xenophobic, many other phobics you can list will be their beliefs.
Whereas, I disagree on: his one-man stand on an approach that was agreed upon amongst 20 clubs. As much as it's free speech, the message is combined as a collective, and everyone is participating to voice their beliefs. He should be speaking to his teammates and say if they are happy for him not to kneel whilst they continue the message. If they agreed together not to do so, then Chelsea should announce as a club they decide the message isn't working.
There are a good amount of Chelsea players of colour, and some may agree with him, some not. The point remains that if they want to continue the message they are portraying then they should unify and keep it going. We all do things we dont want to on behalf of others, so if he decides to stay standing whilst his teammates continue to kneel, who knows it may be his downfall due to team unity.
I understand that both my points may counteract one another, but again I see why both sides can be questioned. I don't see him as a racist, but someone who feels we can do more to fight injustice. It would be interesting to hear if anyone knows someone personally who has someone they know who has racist beliefs, who actually has changed their ways because of footballers taking the knee?
He's not going nothing, he's doing something different (pointing at the "No to Racism" badge on his shirt rather than kneeling).
I personally think he's being a bit of an idiot. Even if we're incredibly generous and say he's doing this to bring it back into the media spotlight, for a few reason's he's not the right man for this particular job.
I'd like to see the literal opposite approach happen. Stop giving attention to racists. Every time there's a news article saying "X was abused on instagram" it feeds the trolls. Punish them and keep it quiet so it doesn't encourage more people to do it for attention. Also I'm not saying I have any problem with them kneeing or whatever, free will and all. I just question what the long term goal is because I just don't think there's any tangible change happening.
Not meaning to be pedantic but we don’t actually freedom of speech in the U.K. I believe it is referred to as freedom of expression. Not that it changes the overall point of what was being said.
More like judging him. There is nothing to condemn really.
Ah yes, Marcos Alonso.
If I were him, I'd have kept myself as far away from limelight as humanly possible.
Then again, not all of us are Marcos Alonso, the pillar of morality and accountability.
Man shouldn't even be on a football field, let alone taking a knee.
If I were him, I'd have kept myself as far away from limelight as humanly possible.
Then again, not all of us are Marcos Alonso, the pillar of morality and accountability.
Man shouldn't even be on a football field, let alone taking a knee.
Lets battle racism by ignoring it - like we have done for the last 400-600 years or so depending on where you are in the globe - it's solved the problem before hasn't it?
The long term goal is to make acts of antiracism as prevalent and normalised within society as racism is.
Awareness and representation within media works, but it's a slow change - but surely if you have better ideas or ways you are helping combat racism on a personal level - we can hear you out.
Non-white people have to live with the discomfort of racism every day of their lives, and because footballers take a few seconds to show an act of solidarity for those affected it's not good enough for a subset of 'fans' who don't want to have their entertainment interrupted by an act that they have deemed surplus to requirements.
Alonso really didn’t think “probably don’t need any more controversy in my career” before he said this?
Like it’s his place to claim it’s losing strength, I’d rather see him continue the good fight by taking the knee in solidarity and perhaps raise his concerns in a more constructive way.
You can raise a concern with it whilst continuing to do it, be constructive and help consider other ways of demonstrating but when you announce you are going to stop taking the knee yourself without doing any of that you simply make it all about you.
You can raise a concern with it whilst continuing to do it, be constructive and help consider other ways of demonstrating but when you announce you are going to stop taking the knee yourself without doing any of that you simply make it all about you.
Not sure how dealing with it privately means ignoring it, but sure use that incredibly pathetic interpretation to take the moral high ground.
Also the "Non-white" people comment is pathetic. Racism is a world wide problem and just doesn't disappear because you are white. So congratulations on that stupid comment as well.
I dunno about suspending him. I think the club should be held accountable. Perhaps a hefty points deduction?
