Yeah I'm not against selling them if we can't use them. I've never liked hoarding players that don't fit. It's frustrating that we are really bad at selling players.
3-5-2 formation this season for United?
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Conte in.
Because if we meet a team like Brighton, Southampton or Palace, they will be happy to sit back and let the match end 0-0. We will risk having too little creative power to break them down.
He could probably come in Bruno or Fred positions. He was excellent at playmaking from inside and outside back in Germany.
I agree with you for everything except McTominay. McTominay as a CB for Scotland is....how do I put this.....really fecking shite.
If we knew we would end up retreating to this formation this season then the summer transfer budget really would have been better spent on a right wing back and some better box to box midfield options.
As it is, hopefully we can find the best system for each game and muddle through as best we can.
As it is, hopefully we can find the best system for each game and muddle through as best we can.
I think the 4-2-4 madness was trying to adapt his tactic to give more opportunities to our young offensive players. It didn't work.
Now we have to lose that attacking flair and just be a bit more defensively sound. The attacking players, who have all been given their chances, now need to do what's good for the team. If the defensive 3-5-2 works and stops us conceding a crazy amount of goals for now, let's stick with it and we can fit an attacking plan around that. The young attacking players won't get as many chances as before, but they have to manage that expectation.
The only way for us to return to a back 4 is at a time when these attacking players finally understand that they need to double their defensive work because we have one less defender.
I'm still baffled what people think is going to change if we switch to 4-3-3 rather than 4-2-3-1. The only difference it will make is when the opposition cut through our shite press then we'll have a lone midfielder trying to protect the defence rather than 2.
We tried 4-3-3 against Villareal with Pogba and Bruno ahead a single pivot and it was suicide because the team is just that poorly organised and there's no cohesion.
The issue is we don't know how to press as team to stop us getting played through so easily, and Lindelof-Maguire are not a pair you ever want to leave exposed due to their lack of athleticisma and pace.
So for now, we need to stop trying to pressure teams high up the field because it is leaving us exposed. And that irrespective of the formation. Looking solid defensively is more about ensuring the team holds their shape and get bodies behind the ball rather than go chasing shadows up front wrecklessly and leaving a massive gap between defence and attack. We can do that in a 4231 or 532.
Thanks. Pretty much as expected but also something that can work with whatever combination of front 3 we choose.We were playing 3-4-3 on the ball and 3-5-2 off it.
Where do you get this from out of interest? Would love to see how compact that looks compared to other games this season.We were playing 3-4-3 on the ball and 3-5-2 off it.
I thought AWB was quite decent tonight in an attacking sense - he has improved, quite secure in possession.
I also think Bailly would be better than Lindelof in a back 3.
I also think Bailly would be better than Lindelof in a back 3.
We had the same young players playing last season and Fernandes playing higher has nothing to do with them, that's a very special stretch to put it on the young offensive players. The reality is that your point made no sense Ole changed a system that he has used for almot two seasons to accomodate the certain players, if we follow your logic these players should have adapted their game and Ole shouldn't have changed the system.
The way you put one would think that the only difference between last season and this one is that Ronaldo and Varane have been added to the starting eleven. Today Ole effectively adapted his 2 years old system to accomodate mainly Ronaldo and allow him to start next to Cavani instead of playing wide, he then added a CB in order to free the fullback since he decided to get rid of one of the wide players in order to accomodate Ronaldo.
In other words Ole adapted the system to the players that he wanted to start, these players didn't adapt to the system Ole originally used. That's a fact and not really debateable.
Our major weakness under Ole previous 2 years has been breaking down teams who sit behind the ball, and I don't see this 5 at the back helping that in the slightest. However, I would rather us attempt to grind out some 1-0 wins playing like this than see us getting torn to shreds like we have done nearly every game this season.
Yeah AWB was good, he’s much more assured going forward than people give him credit for, he takes in his man and has intent to get forwards, needs to work on his crossing of course but the cutbacks he puts in we should make more use of.
Not sure on Bailly over Lindelof in a back 3, the latter is a naturally better defender and with the added cover his lesser-physicality (compared to Bailly) shouldn’t show as much.
Exactly. Not sure why people worry more about the players than the results at this point!
I don't agree that he adapted his system to the players he wanted to play. I think he adapted his system to be more defensively sound and played the players that best suited the tactic. The aim today was a clean sheet, that was clear. He then went for the most experienced attacking players who could make the most of very little expected chances.
While I don't put all the blame on the young offensive players, I notice the defensive part of their game has dropped a lot more since last season. Why? Not sure. There maybe many reasons. But hey, if they can adapt to the 3-5-2, by all means give them some chances ahead of the oldies when they need to be rested. But if they can't adapt, well, what I'm saying is tough luck for now.
Maybe we can get another coach in the end of the season that can help them, or maybe we have to sell them if the 3-5-2 works so unbelievably well for Ole that he wins so many matches and stays in the job.
Screenshotted it from the halftime talk with Owen Hargreaves.
Bailly is so quick, we need someone who can sprint back in case we are caught playing a high line - few examples of this today. He is a very good defender if played regularly and is better at 1v1.
I think its ironic that in both seasons where we had top heavy squads 14/15(Rooney, RVP, Falcao, Di Maria, Mata) and this one, we had to revert to a back 3 to get balance.
In a way it makes sense. If you have to play multiple forwards who prefer playing closer to goal, you can have an industrious midfield 3(Liverpool, PSG) or a very controlling midfield(2017 Real Madrid, 2011 Barca) to compensate.
But if you dont have a good midfield, you can play with a back 3 to make the defense more secure, and use wingbacks to play on the transition.
If we are playing a base back 3 and Shaw AWB as wing backs, I Dont see why we cant flip between 343, 532, 541 and 523 depending on opponents. The 523/343 would allow us to get more of the wide forwards on the pitch if we desired
This could work if we can get Sancho going as a RWB. Hudson-Odoi does it for Chelsea so can't see why Sancho can't adapt.
Sancho would be awful at RWB and be a waste of his talent.
This could work if we can get Sancho going as a RWB. Hudson-Odoi does it for Chelsea so can't see why Sancho can't adapt.
Lingard on the other hand… didn’t LVG play him there?
It works.
It might be a good platform to opt for you know and maybe it’s a good way to put the defence first and get the right attacking talent for the right match?
Can’t see Sancho as a wing back .Hudson Odoi might have played some games there but he played in the front 3 in his last game. You would be better off rotating Bruno and Sancho and then have Cavani, Ronaldo, Rashford and Greenwood for the front positions. Then rotate Pogba and DVB for one position and Fred, Matic and McTominay for the other.
This could work if we can get Sancho going as a RWB. Hudson-Odoi does it for Chelsea so can't see why Sancho can't adapt.
Yeah I’d definitely like to see us try 523/343 in order to make use of our wide forwards, I think it would be the natural progression if Ole likes the three CB’s at the back because we can’t keep Cavani and Ronaldo on the pitch every game and our other forwards are wide players.
Too many good players benched will wreak havoc on the dressing room in no time. But if we're going ahead with this then we need to go for another midfielder, CB, and RWB in the next window or in the summer max, and get rid of at least 3 attacking players. This is what happens when you don't know what you're doing. Sancho doesn't even fit anywhere, so that's money down the drain.
If we’re going to play around with the back 3 then I think having Shaw come in as a LCB is the way to go. I’d have more comfort playing with Shaw over Lindeloff. Also Lingard as cover for an attacking wing back could be a master stroke.
I just wonder now where Sancho and Greenwood fit in. Maybe it it’s with a 3-4-2-1 with Sancho and a Bruno playing behind Greenwood. That could be devastating.
I just wonder now where Sancho and Greenwood fit in. Maybe it it’s with a 3-4-2-1 with Sancho and a Bruno playing behind Greenwood. That could be devastating.
Can't see Sancho working as a wing back. Basically in this 3-4-1-2/3-5-2 formation there's place and position for every player (even van de Beek), except for Sancho. Only position I could see him play in that formation is number 10.
This could work if we can get Sancho going as a RWB. Hudson-Odoi does it for Chelsea so can't see why Sancho can't adapt.
This move might be bad for Sancho but it gets Rashford, Ronaldo, Cavani, and Greenwood in a better position. Maybe it can be tweaked to a 343 too?
Also might benefit Pogba.
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Yeah. Still irks me a bit that we need 150mil of centre backs on the pitch and essentially a back 8 with the keeper to keep a clean sheet. Still thought there was space for spurs as well But thats where we are. If we had xavi and iniesta in our 4231 might be a different case. More than one way to skin a cat though. Liverpool play this total football where firmino is basically their first defender in the press. City usually make it hard for you to get the ball and do anything with it. We cant do those with our fitness/personnel and we dont have the midfield for possession football. Today made me feel a bit better about the prospect of conte coming in with variations of a back 5(if Ole does go i think he is the only person out there, we cant be a training ground for someone like ten hag to have a go at cutting his teeth in a new league, or Potter having a go at a big club). Think we could be quite clinical under him.
Ireally want to see Shaw as LCB with Telles
That us definitely worth a try, with Shaws ability to bring the ball forward it could work..
I can see this formation sticking around a while now. Means we are hardly likely to see Sancho and Lingard at all and Martial may as well pack his bags.
I think Sancho fits in if he plays more of a 3-4-3. It's not a massive stretch of the imagination to see that depending on the setup of our opponents.
It's probably not impossible that he could play the Bruno position, either. As a potential rotation. I don't like it so much as Bruno is a lot more combative and more accustomed to dropping into deeper central areas but it's not impossible, having his technical ability in the game more often could work.
Not as a wingback, that's not a good idea. Doesn't seem to have any defensive instincts and I don't think he's shown the engine so far. If we're going for offbeat changeups for that role Lingard would be better. Although no reason to completely dismiss Dalot from that role either.
It's probably not impossible that he could play the Bruno position, either. As a potential rotation. I don't like it so much as Bruno is a lot more combative and more accustomed to dropping into deeper central areas but it's not impossible, having his technical ability in the game more often could work.
Not as a wingback, that's not a good idea. Doesn't seem to have any defensive instincts and I don't think he's shown the engine so far. If we're going for offbeat changeups for that role Lingard would be better. Although no reason to completely dismiss Dalot from that role either.
I think it has to be this system for the remainder of Ole's season. Utd were shipping goals playing a pressing 4231. 532 is solid and, although not the most entertaining formation, will get results.
I don't care is Greenwood or Sancho don't start much, results are of greater concern.
I don't care is Greenwood or Sancho don't start much, results are of greater concern.
I don't see any reason why we can't try 4-4-2?
Because Ole has trouble organizing the defence (and midfield for that matter). The easiest way to circumvent that is to stack the defence with players and let our forwards deliver the moments.
I have to disagree here regarding Bailly. By adding another centre back means we want a centre back who can distribute the ball. And Lindelof is much better than Bailly in distributing the ball and he could deliver long ball where Rashford cut inside with his run and this could be applied to the likes of Ronaldo and Cavani. Lindelof is much more suitable for the 3 at the back than playing as pair.
With 5 defenders, I think we could get away playing Pogba in deeper role. He has extra protection behind him.