This can work effectively against top clubs, but I hope don’t see this against the likes of Watford.
3-5-2 formation this season for United?
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It'd be either Bruno or Sancho in any 3-4-3 system IMO. Basically if Ole is smart, he'll rotate 3 out of Bruno, Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho. 2 of those are creators, 4 of them are "forwards". Can be done well to keep everyone engaged and fresh, or can get done poorly where we overplay Bruno/Ronaldo and underlay Sancho/someone else.
Sancho as a signing made a lot of sense IMO. Ole clearly has no idea how to fit him in though.
Ole already mentioned Sancho as an option in this system post match. I think he can play as support to Ronaldo as Cavani did today.
Hes definitely more suitable to the front 3 in a 3-4-3 than he was on the wing in a 4-2-3-1 IMO. He's the creative guy in the front 3, but today that was Bruno. Up to Ole to manage them effectively.
But yeah obviously more bench time. Only 3 attackers can fit in here, and at best we get Pogba to add to those as one of the 2 midfielders. It's the only way it works anyway so I'm not too concerned about that. Suits them all better.
Why not? Atalanta have played with a back 3/5 for years under Gasparini, and if there's one thing they do, it's score. A shitload. Every damn season.
Yep, just going by Ole's use of it. And agree the Ronaldo - Cavani partnership isn't sustainable.
Honestly, there’s no point in listening to Ole talk about using his squad at this point, means nothing. He’ll talk up players then just never use them.
Chelsea wins games routinely against teams like Watford with 3-4-3/3-5-2. It’s about how you implement the formation, not the formation itself. When we do play Watford in 3 weeks time, just push Shaw and AWB higher - take more risks.
I'm not sure we're playing a 3-4-3. I see it as a 5-2-1-2 in defence transitioning to a 3-4-1-2 in attack. I think the width comes from the wingbacks rather than the front 3. I think Sancho will be expected to play narrow rather than be allowed to drift to much out wide.
Who knows. As you said, up to Ole to manage them. As long as we win.
Tuchel manages to get a ridiculous amount of production from his full backs though. Alonso & Chillwell are extremely potent going forward and so is James on the other side.
Three arguments for this formation: Ronny and cavani ran riot with the spurs defence.
Bruno Fernandez has acres of space to play. AWB is not a wing back.
I'm mind boggled why Lingard is brought on over Sancho. Sancho has more talent and needs game time. For now this formation worked because the three at the back are the best defenders.
Bruno Fernandez has acres of space to play. AWB is not a wing back.
I'm mind boggled why Lingard is brought on over Sancho. Sancho has more talent and needs game time. For now this formation worked because the three at the back are the best defenders.
I said before the 3 at the back doesnt suit our team. I've given it more thought throughtout this week, and after seeing it in action today, I have to say 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 gives our team the best balance. That way our team doesnt get hit on counters, and this hides the deficiency of our midfield, as well as suits our forwards more than a 4-2-3-1. We need to lose a few players as they are bloat(Martial, Mata, VdB, Dalot, Jones and Lingard) and need to get a proper right wing back and CM in. Then this team is golden.
-------------------DDG
--Lindelof--Varane--Maguire
RWB--Brozovic--Fred--Shaw
------------------Bruno
-----------Cavani--Ronaldo
-----------------Heaton
--------Scott--Bailly--Tuanzebe
AWB---Pogba--Matic--Telles
---Sancho--Mason--Rashford
-------------------DDG
--Lindelof--Varane--Maguire
RWB--Brozovic--Fred--Shaw
------------------Bruno
-----------Cavani--Ronaldo
-----------------Heaton
--------Scott--Bailly--Tuanzebe
AWB---Pogba--Matic--Telles
---Sancho--Mason--Rashford
Everyone saying yes will hate this formation after a while, especially after home games. Its good to use in certain games but that's it.
Mate, Conte turned Victor Moses into a world class title winning wing-back. If he can do that with him, he can definitely do something with our players.
Biggest issue with this system could be keeping CBs fit given lack of quality rotation options in that spot - at some stage, Bailly will have to come in, maybe Shaw too I guess? Tuanzebe loan recall?
Oh yeah, I'm sure Conte would be able to do it. Though I think he'd fancy Telles who actually does have a good delivery, and Shaw would play the Azpi role.
Solskjaer though... The less said the better at this point.
I like your thinking but over the course of a season we’ll have to adapt to circumstances that may require us going with a back four. In your scenario of AWB pushing higher up against Watford why not instead drop Lindelof and add a proper attacking player? We can’t go an entire season not giving chances to Sancho and Greenwood even against bottom feeder clubs.
Have to agree with you there, although Shaw can be very good going forward with his crossing and overlapping. AWB is undoubtedly not good enough in that area though. I’d be inclined to use one of Sancho or Lingard at RWB in said Watford game to be honest, which I didn’t mention in my previous post.
We had to change shape so I’m glad he went with something different.
I remain a bit unconvinced that this is the answer. We were much more difficult to play against in midfield and won the ball in central areas a lot more often in the first half. However in the second half we retreated and became too easy to play around and just invited pressure.
Also, it’s asking a lot of AWB and Shaw to play in this system.
I think I would like to see us evolve this and eventually return to a back 4 with one of the CBs dropping out for a holding mid (Matic or McT) but keeping 2 box to box midfield roles with Bruno in the hole behind 2 forwards.
We have far too many options for those 2 forward roles.
I remain a bit unconvinced that this is the answer. We were much more difficult to play against in midfield and won the ball in central areas a lot more often in the first half. However in the second half we retreated and became too easy to play around and just invited pressure.
Also, it’s asking a lot of AWB and Shaw to play in this system.
I think I would like to see us evolve this and eventually return to a back 4 with one of the CBs dropping out for a holding mid (Matic or McT) but keeping 2 box to box midfield roles with Bruno in the hole behind 2 forwards.
We have far too many options for those 2 forward roles.
Good luck to ole managing Sancho/Greenwood playing time expectations.
A formation =/= a system of play
Any formation can be hated if the person implementing the system doesn’t use it correctly
Same shit really, 3-4-1-2 or 5-2-1-2. And I called it a 343 as essentially the "1-2" is a group of 3 and probably gets coached as a group of 3. Even looking at average positions, Bruno played far more on the right than as a 10 anyway, but it's half as an attacker and half as a midfielder anyway. So pretty much a right attacking mid. Even in a 3-4-3 the width comes from fullbacks, it's just that the front 3 play more narrow. Sancho did it often for Dortmund, would be fine IMO.
Better that than forgoing results. Tonight was a good night.
I think, one of the natural advantages of the 3/5 back formations is you always have 3.5 players back. Your 3 CBs plus a midfielder either screening them or watching the break. You naturally have numbers at the back.
With 4 at the back, you could have 2 full backs up to link up play leaving often 2 CBs + 1 Midfielder to screen the team. Which can leave you a bit short
Yeah let's see. If Sancho plays and does the job well, then jackpot!
But what about all that "long term stuff" we've been doing for the last 3 years?
Mate, I guess at this point you realized that your interpretation of 3-4-3 for this specific game is pretty exclusive
By the way: if you download the sofa score app on your phone you can find average positioning. It is quite an interesting feature.
That looks organised. Because of how low the bar is at the moment I'm probably way more impressed than I should be but alas here we are.We were playing 3-4-3 on the ball and 3-5-2 off it.
Tough shit. It's time these young ones (and I will include Martial and Rashford in this group) adapted their game to the teams needs, rather than always needing the team to be set up to their strengths.
Just don't buy them then? Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford will have plenty of suitors in January or the summer. Get rid of them.
It worked today, but it'll look very different depending who we are playing, or who is injured, but fair play today, the pressure was on the team delivered.
It’s a temporary solution that will be ditched eventually. Just surprised we didn’t play this way against Liverpool.
In fairness it did work very well today but this is the cycle under Ole, no plan just stumbling around for something that works until the next crisis.
In fairness it did work very well today but this is the cycle under Ole, no plan just stumbling around for something that works until the next crisis.
Well, probably should have thought twice about it but too late now for Martial and Sancho.
They can adapt, or go the Donny way. We need better standards not just for the manager, but all round the club in general.
This has been Oles downfall. He has tried to transition to high press attacking football along the lines of Liverpool/City. Its hard to tell exactly cos its all over the place but that wer ehe has failed. He still has the reputation for beating big teams but that was the season before last when he sat back and countered. Last season he was sht to average against the big teams and this season he moved even more offensive. This is down to our history and playering attacking football with wingers. But it has failed spectacularly. We are at out best counterattacking. If we play with the team we had today we would be much closer to the top. But not in all games. We can mix it up. WE can play Pogba/Donny the the two sometimes - Maybe against Atalanta we can be same team with Pogba. Then the sht sit back teams we can revert to 4-2-3-1. Bring on Sancho and Pogba to break down the low block
100m down the drain then?
Why hoard them? City need a striker, greenwood would be an exciting addition to that team. I'm sure someone can make use of Sancho too.
We'll get the players more suited to us instead. No point hoarding players and then shitting on their value to the point nobody wants them.
That makes no sense, the manager adapted the system to a bunch of players that got humiliated by Liverpool but you think that he shouldn't adapt his not functioning tactics to the players that are meant to be the future of this club?
But you see the manager is the club! We always must do what the manager needs.
He will have to rotate the front 3 with Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford otherwise some players will not be playing. I would prefer McTomniay as a CB in this system like he does for Scotland. This will allow DVB to rotate with Pogba and Fred with Matic.
This is my take as well, you can’t really credit it to the manager when the reality is he’s been forced to play this team due to our recent performances.
Also why I can’t see VDB getting a proper game until he’s gone, if he plays well now, it only serves to undermine Ole’s position further, so he won’t play him with his job on the line.