I'm not sure this is true. He has better players but they in no way resemble a team. And if Ten Hag actually did come here to turn them into a team, it would be apparent that a few of them would have to depart.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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You need a long look in the mirror
It’s probably fooled you because you appear to be confused with things in general. As seen by the rest of your post.
I sincerely apologise if that comes across as rude but it’s the only conclusion i can come to reading your posts.
The fact I said it was rubbish under Lvg and Mourinho was probably the clue that I did not mean all was rosy just because we won some trophies.
It also doesn’t mean it was rubbish for all of Jose and Lvgs reign but the last parts certainly were and the latter part of Oles reign is now as worse if not worse. That doesn’t mean it was rubbish the whole time, again this is implied and shouldn’t need pointing out.
Ole has spent 400 million, the squad should be better. In reality it’s not actually as good as it should be considering that kind of spend. I don’t think the 130 spent on wan Bissaka and Maguire has been the most effective. I don’t think ignoring our central midfield area and spending 125 million on a number 10 and right winger who you then never play is also a good way to spend money. But that’s just me, maybe I’m insane or something.
The atmosphere at the club is toxic right now. The performances are toxic. Fans aren’t happy, Some players aren’t happy and are making subtle posts on social media pointing that out. All that horseshit people held onto about toxicity and Mourinho was only gonna go as far until the results packed up under Ole which they are now. If you keep getting fecking smashed every week the atmosphere will turn toxic very quickly regardless of who you are.
A clear pathway to the first team? There always has been at United, Ole didn’t invent it. Lvg played more academy players than anyone. In Oles three years a total of one academy player has become a regular in the team and that’s Greenwood.
The problem with all the Ole propaganda buzz phrases that people use to justify his three years here is that when it comes to actually quantifying it by results and evidence it quickly falls apart and just looks like bullshit.
Things like “toxic atmosphere” “pathway to the first team” “better future” “better squad”. I mean what is this bullshit? The goal is to play good football, win football matches and win trophies as a a manager when you’re at the fecking club now/in the present. When you find yourself digging your own grave to defend a manager with everything mentioned but style, results and trophies you know you’ve gone wrong somewhere.
Did he build the squad he has now or not?
is it a worse squad than what he found?
Squad and team are not interchangeable words
Its doubtful. The only ones I'd expect to depart are the already too old ones like Mata, Cavani and Matic and the squad players like Jones, or those yearning for game time with contacts up like Lingard. The vast majority of the squad would stay and thrive under Ten Hag. All that would be missing is the purchase of another true 6 like Matic used to be.
You think de Gea can do high press? Ronaldo? Maguire? Pogba?
Spare me the fake apology.
What? You want to lie about your own posts now?
[Oh dear, looks like we have another one……
You’d think before Ole came in we were in relegation battles and hadn’t sniffed a trophy in years.
What actually happened was we’d won three trophies in 3 seasons and finished in our highest position and got our highest points tally since fergie left. ]
There is absolutely NOTHING in this post about you saying things were rubbish under LVG and Mourinho. You only brought that up after I asked you this:
[ If things were as rosy as you paint. Why the feck do you think we hired an Ole? We should have stuck it out with the guy who brought those things. After all he is the biggest proven winner outside of Guardiola....]
You said things were rubbish under them AFTER you'd made the post I bolded and quoted back to you. Its truly rich that you have the audacity to then claim I " appear to be confused with things in general.".......
Yes. High press has always been about coaching, It has NEVER been about the type of players. Coach a team to position its self properly and always bee with in 20-30 yards of each other and you will comfortably high press. Barca for example did it with Pique at the back for years. He and Maguire both lack pace
I thought he was bizarrely quiet when Tyler mentioned the pressure on OGS. He’s backed himself into a corner with his incessant defence of the manager. Bizarre.
Buck stops with the manager but be nice if the players actually put the required effort in, won 50/50’s and a few lose balls. It’s inevitable he will have to go now but players since SAF have gone have just continually took the piss. Not enough care for club or the fans but they will get away with it
I don't agree. Nor did Pep or Klopp when they replaced their goalkeepers at City and Liverpool. DDG doesn't come off his line enough or have good enough footwork to ever be successful in a high press team. He's just one example. If you think anyone is going to get Ronaldo to press you are dreaming.
Ten Hag would be the start of a long process which I doubt the Glazers are interested in.
I'm assuming you meant to write, "Where in the past did you hear me say or post it was acceptable" so that's what I'm answering.
What you posted was,
And I said,
So I'll ask directly, how long should the club think about Ole's replacement? Is it ok to take this entire season, with the players stagnating, and the team continuing to not play well? Is there some point where a short term change to a better, but not perfect, manager would be the thing to do in your opinion?
But the away record guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Only Mason been promoted and he was a wonderkid
It's bewildering that we, the fans, can see it, but the club officials can't.
Once we conceded the first goal, I knew we aren't going to get the ball back. We don't know how to high press and get the ball back or do a tactical fouling to stop the game in opposition half to avoid an yellow.
After 2 goals, what we needed was players to take risks and pass the ball through their press. But instead we had Sancho on , who couldn't do anything without midfield help, Mason - who is still a kid and Ronaldo who doesn't press. Bruno was the only one competent on the ball but he was double marked. Should have brought Matic,Donny and played from there.
I'm fed up. We won't make the top 4 (Conte will easily) and we won't make the CL knock outs. In December, we will pull the plug on him after the season is completely ruined.
Such an incompetent group of people top to bottom.
People who still believe this youth nonsense amuse me. The guy has only used one youngster throughout this 3 years, the rest have been either rotting on the bench or in continuous loans after loans but it's alright, he gives youth chance.
Just like the myth of him being good in big games despite being absolute shit in them since last season.
The Ole cult have been feeding on myths after myths that have nothing to do with what is actually happening on the pitch, and they also want us to believe such myths.
Undeniably.
I’ve been wanting to post about how inept Ole has been tactically lately, but haven’t gotten around to it.
There are several sequences in the Atalanta matches that show how poorly coached we are. Everyone knows Gasperini plays man to man in a high press. The midfielders sit on McFred, and the wingbacks are in a terrible position, no man’s land. They are too high up the pitch. Instead of giving the players the movements to pull them out of position, Ole sets up in the same tired spacing, hoping for us to break the high press. It’s comical.
Our high press, on the other hand, is so poorly executed and so late. Instead of ensuring we have numbers to press effectively, we commit no more than 4 players. It’s 4v6 every time.
This is the problem. Ole has not shown the ability to adjust and this will get him fired.
Our high press has always been embarrassingly bad. LVG did that perfectly. After that, without any prior plan one of the player decide to jump the queue and press an opposition player. He will easily pass the ball to other player who will be free. Our player who was supposed to press the opposition player (who was receiving the ball) might be wondering why the feck did the first player decide to press now and he end up doing a half arsed one anyway, which completely exposes our midfield. Suddenly the opposition is in our half with a numerical advantage and we blame McFred or defenders for not defending properly.
Thing is modern game has evolved so much that both defending and attacking is a combined effort now. We are still living in 2000s.
Once we started 352 I knew we were in trouble. Mason was never going to run. He can be only useful when the ball is in the opposition box.
The chief has gone old. Time for a new chief. Hopefully the new chief isnt easilly torn
I could spend £400m and improve the team (but also having them play like shite as I can’t coach either)
They make good decisions because they know where every player is positioned. When the ball is played to FB or wide player, they know that CM or other player will always be available for first time pass.
Players make good decisions when their confidence is high, confidence will always be high when you know how you are going to play. Ultimately it's all with coaching.
Hargreaves said it better, City players knew what to do before they receive pass, ManUtd players didn't know what to do when they had possession.
it may be 3-5-2 in his head but the tactics yesterday were 7-1-2 and even then, City could have been 5-0 up within 20 mins....and they don't have a striker. He has no idea what he's doing. He's been so stunned by the Pool game that he now doesn't trust his defence (rightly so), yet doesn't have the balls or will to drop any of them, he no longer trusts the attackers to fall back, and he seemingly has no trust in himself. So what does he do? He introduces another CB and ditches all creative play in the hope Ronaldo can run on to a miracle pass from our defensive box.
Our entire squad was shaped for ball passing CB's, creative/pacey wingers and counter attack. He's given all that up, has no idea how to implement it, sacrificed all creative play and now hopes for miracles at both ends for 90 mins.
Are you sure about this? Ole himself actually did much better with the previous squad that Mourinho left him, than with the current squad! Perhaps Ole has failed in the squad building business too? (After spending 400 million.)
If one guy can just walk in and "destroy" foundation then that foundation was built on mud to begin with.
Getting a manager who wants to come in and spend two or three years building is grand. I’ll take that. But there needs to be evidence of progress in that time. Even now, three years on, the first thing his apologists point to is ‘he’s lifted the mood of the place after Jose’…. it’s been three years for crying out loud. Three years and we’ve not even got to the point of looking like a structured and organised side which should be the very first foundations laid during the process not something you struggle with down the line.
Short of coming out against Watford with a pair of underpants on his head, a pencil up his nose and shouting ‘Wibble’ I’m not sure what else needs to happen to show the board and his fans that he isn’t up to it.
Short of coming out against Watford with a pair of underpants on his head, a pencil up his nose and shouting ‘Wibble’ I’m not sure what else needs to happen to show the board and his fans that he isn’t up to it.
Yeah this is also the line that gets me.
I mean other than a clone of Ole, who wouldn't be an improvement at this point?
Nearly every single game this season has been a tactical disaster....and we're talking absolute basics like not picking people who visibly aren't fit.
It's just willful destructive incompetence at this point. Every game he's doing stuff that, even on its own in isolation, would justify sacking him.
You can't even call it coaching because the basic decision making is so bad it renders the actual coaching irrelevant anyway.
This is a better squad than he started with talent wise - Which is good for the new manager of course.
The coaching team and technical team as a group seem as uninterested now as they did during their playing days. Carrick, Phelan, Fletcher etc are as dull as they come and will never inspire creativity, energy and aggressive play.
Sack them all
Sack them all
Yes he has no clue. It would have been better for him to go 442 but not with Mason up front. Neither of McFred can hold the ball or pass it decently. Bruno can't hold the ball. AWB can't pass. Martial is the only one who can hold it. It's not hindsight but if we go out losing might as well as have a go. Play DVB and Martial instead of Mason up front with Ronaldo.
Phelan has no business there and Carrick and the other fella are amateur
The fact he’s just switched formation rather than trying to make what he was supposedly building towards since he came here work, shows he was never building towards anything and was just naming a team and hoping for the best.
We went 3-5-2 because a guy was linked as being his replacement who is associated with that formation. I would put money on the fact this was the extent of the thought that went into the change.
We went 3-5-2 because a guy was linked as being his replacement who is associated with that formation. I would put money on the fact this was the extent of the thought that went into the change.
Perhaps it is. But Ole did better with the previous squad, and he is doing worse with the new squad. For Ole, the new squad is not better than the old squad, is it?
In 2004 I realized that "squad" and "individuals" are two very different things. Greece did not have good individual players, but they did have a good squad, and a good manager that knew how to set up that squad in order to win games. People were shocked that they won the Euro, and definitely it was a huge surprise, but it was not random: that squad was unbeaten for two full years 2002-2004, including a road win vs Spain.
Again in 2004, England had great individual players. They won nothing.
So, it is not that simple that you have a "better squad" only because on paper it seems that you have "better players". They also have to fit into a coherent plan.
Totally agree with this. It’s a system learned by players. It’s drilled into them. Average sides can press, it’s about fitness.
Indeed, and and all of that comes from properly coached system which the players understand and buy into.
Liverpool ran rings around us a few weeks ago with a central midfield of Milner, Henderson and Keita. All good, but not top class players by any means. Henderson has been a vital cog for Liverpool but here, he'd look as average as the rest. They have an effective style and system and they stick to it.
Neville made the point yesterday that City play a different way to Liverpool, which is obvious when you watch them. Different styles but both have an identity. We lack that and it's all down to having a manager and coaches who aren't up to the job.
Anyone watching this david moyes whu team today.
Shape, fight, hunger, attacking intent!!!
Everything utd lack
Shape, fight, hunger, attacking intent!!!
Everything utd lack
Looking at analysis after the game vs City, it seems even the pundits who are ex-players, know the issue and the wrong tactical approach in this game. They are talking about the City full-backs exposing our wing-backs in a 3-5-2 formation. Now I'm sitting here wondering how Ole and his team are not aware of this in God's name. It seems that is basic teaching, something that you learn in U18 teams. How are they so clueless, it's just beyond me. I refuse to accept that they were not aware of City exposing AWB and totally dominating our right side.
The only thing remaining is that the players are no longer interested in being coached by Ole or not following his orders. They got the tactics so wrong, by the time City were 2 up, it was too late even to try something. But I'll get back to the first thing I said, and that is even the blind can see that this tactic is not working against teams such as City. Only our coaching staff couldn't see that.
I want Ole to be successful but such things are just pointing to the obvious and that is he is tactically weak.
The only thing remaining is that the players are no longer interested in being coached by Ole or not following his orders. They got the tactics so wrong, by the time City were 2 up, it was too late even to try something. But I'll get back to the first thing I said, and that is even the blind can see that this tactic is not working against teams such as City. Only our coaching staff couldn't see that.
I want Ole to be successful but such things are just pointing to the obvious and that is he is tactically weak.
I'm not. People who think pressing is about work rate fundamentally misunderstand the concept. Pressing is about clever positioning and pre planned intensity in short burst, in target areas of the pitch to enhance the team's game plan eitehr in teh attcking ro defensive phase. Usually in a areas of about 20-30 yards squares. No one should seriously believe fit top class footballers, of whom shuttle runs are an essential part of their fitness regimen for example, can't do it over short periods of time. Having work rate as a baseline for pressing is only necessary when you have a team that doesn't respect possession or use it to rest, prefer to create chance using opposing team's use of possession.
Players can a pick it up faster than most realise if being coached by an expert at it
Just read that the team has been given the week off, while OGS is back in Kristiansund with his family. WTF?!