Next permanent manager | Poll updated

[Matt851]

Ridiculous post. Tuchel was on his way to not winning it either, 6 months later he wins the CL with Chelsea

PSG are also 11 points clear in poch's first full season

 

[Abraxas]

Slow to buy and invest in chronic problem positions for us for years. Won’t sell players that don’t even want to be here. Let the club fall apart. Apart from that they are great.

How is not buying in certain positions Glazers fault?

The manager directs the funds according to his priorities. It's a two way street, he comes up with targets and then they're given importance depending on his opinion, who is available etc. Then the club have to buy them. We've spent an inordinate amount of money, do you truly think that the Glazers have said "ok but we're not signing a holding mid." We spent 50 million quid on a right back.

Sorry but this is completely on the managers, regardless of whether the Glazers are not the hottest negotiators. They have deployed funds, ultimately. Could they be more efficient.. absolutely, but fundamentally there is no suggestion they go anywhere except where the manager says.

 

[JPB]

Ridiculous post. Tuchel was on his way to not winning it either, 6 months later he wins the CL with Chelsea

He's garbage. We'll never win the league or anything else with him in charge.

 

[Devil may care]

That's not really worth a mention though, pretty much all candidates have done it, it's a normal thing in Football.

I don't disagree with you, I was just saying what I think he meant by promoting youth, in that it's not just about academy players. I've read your posts on Poch and fully agree, there are few more bland, middle of the road appointments we could make.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

I wonder if Carrick is throwing his hat in the ring already based on today's snippet from his press conference, " It's a privilege for me to sit in this position and I understand the possibilities that come with that."

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Poch is a nearly man

 

[glazed]

do you truly think that the Glazers have said "ok but we're not signing a holding mid."

Isn't that exactly what they said?

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Well there are only about 6 clubs with general CL aspirations so that narrows it down, and PSG are a shit show mercenary operation domibated by the arrogance of Leonardo, a toxic situation, we are just incompetent but we'll cater to managers a lot more and our fans and board will give you longer than most.

You digress, your original point was the fact the media briefing suggests he wants to give up the PSG gig mid-season for United is moot because plenty of other managers would do the same...but from where, and what calibre?

By all accounts, the flavour of the month is Ten Hag who wouldn't consider a mid-season switch - and he's simply winning another sure thing for Ajax in Holland.

 

[I'm a beautiful thing]

Poch is a nearly man

We aren't even close to nearly at the moment, there isn't one stand out candidate, not Ten Hag, Rodgers, Zidane all have question marks

 

[Freak]

I think we can forget Ten Hag if we don’t get him this time - he'll go to a top top club next, he doesn’t need another stepping stone

Especially considering Pep is unlikely to stay at City long term. I suspect if we don't go for Ten Hag, City most likely will see him as the natural successor to Pep in a year or two.

 

[Freak]

Unless he asks for Eric Dier.

He has the equivalent here already - Maguire.

 

[Abraxas]

Isn't that exactly what they said?

Where are you getting this from?

We spent over 100 million in the summer and also took our wage bill substantially further in signing Ronaldo. This during a post covid climate. The manager decided on that bunch rather than a different composition within the funds allowed. More than reasonable from the club in the circumstances, if he got it wrong then it's on him.

 

[peridigm]

Poch is fine for me. I prefer Ten Hag but there's nothing really separating the two CV wise and Poch has the added pl experience and managing big stars. None of them are guaranteed but I'd bet on Ten Hag winning us the league if his style clicked here over Poch

His time at Ajax is pretty impressive number wise. 2 league titles, 2 Dutch cup, and 1 Dutch super cup wins to boot.

Ajax

28 December 2017

Present

Matches: 185

Wins: 135

Draw: 25

Loss: 25

GF: 504

GA: 157

GD:+347

Win %: 72.97

 

[Berbaclass]

His time at Ajax is pretty impressive number wise. 2 league titles, 2 Dutch cup, and 1 Dutch super cup wins to boot.

Ajax

28 December 2017

Present

Matches: 185

Wins: 135

Draw: 25

Loss: 25

GF: 504

GA: 157

GD:+347

Win %: 72.97

What's it like compared to previous Ajax managers?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

You might be right that we will struggle to win the title but you can't compare ole to poch in terms of coaching ability, that would be entirely ridiculous. The fact is if poch doesn't join us and leaves psg in the summer he will end up at another top club, ole will struggle to get a job in the championship

Think you're confusing posts.

Unless he asks for Eric Dier.

Poch has been my number one choice since his Southampton days but if he did come and sign Eric Dier I'll be creating my very own Poch sack watch thread about 2 minutes later.

 

[Berbaclass]

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[diarm]

Klopp never said to replace Woodward by taking anyone from Dortmund.

Let's be realistic here- do you really think you can demand something like this? We all want that Incompetent group to be replaced but if someone says I can only come if you take VDS and Overmars (who is a legend to our rival btw) ,it does mean you aren't serious now.

He can feck right off.

I just think it's indicative of how we are perceived as a club.

Serious managers who understand what it takes to be successful, look at the shambles of a set up at United and know we're not a place for them to build something.1

 

[stw2022]

What’s so bad about PSG?

 

[glazed]

The manager decided on that bunch rather than a different composition within the funds allowed.

See that's where it all gets murky. They look like marketing choices to me not footballing ones. I don't see how anyone sane would want Sancho and Ronaldo over a defensive midfielder. It seems more likely that the DMs available were vetoed as bad value for money.

 

[sewey89]

Can't be long now until somebody posts the tweet about Southgate signing a new deal again and says something like "dodged a bullet" or "that's a blow"

 

[Devil may care]

You digress, your original point was the fact the media briefing suggests he wants to give up the PSG gig mid-season for United is moot because plenty of other managers would do the same...but from where, and what calibre?

By all accounts, the flavour of the month is Ten Hag who wouldn't consider a mid-season switch - and he's simply winning another sure thing for Ajax in Holland.

You are ignoring the point that we'd be an escape route from a toxic situation for him, lets not try to make it like he'd be ditching a great position because he's got a raging boner for Manchester United. I don't see him as a top calibre manager as he's never won anything, and we present a much comfier, less demanding option than PSG, you come here and get 3 seasons without winning anything as long as you keep the CL money coming in. If you want to look at it as positive then go ahead, Bayern, City, Liverpool and Chelsea's managers aren't going to ditch much better run clubs to come here, hardly a measuring stick.

 

[MichaelRed]

What's it like compared to previous Ajax managers?

Win % for Ajax managers before Ten Hag were 58-64% going back to Martin Jol in 2009.

 

[largelyworried]

Personally I think Ten Hag has a much higher ceiling but also carries more risk. Not only would he be coming into a league he doesn't know, he'd be arriving at a club where we have no culture of the kind of highly technical and often complex football that he seems to favour. Both Ole and Jose were almost at the opposite end of the scale to ETH and we've built a squad over the last few years that favours individualistic, simple and direct play styles and struggles with things like possession based football or tactical flexibility. Combine this with a set of technical directors who are, at best, unproven, and he may not get the support he needs to find and convince the right players to join.

In a way, we continue to pay the price for earlier mistakes. If ETH took over at City, for example, he'd walk through the door and find a set-up just to his liking. In everything from training to scouting, they went down the road of highly technical, systems football years ago and built up the structures within the club that makes that work. Everything would be geared up for his success. At United, on the other hand, its a mess. ETH could come in, find that the job is just too big to undertake in such a relentless league, and bomb.

I don't see Poch becoming the best in the league in the way that ETH could be, but I think he's a much safer pair of hands. He's used to culture change, he's used to working with difficult or incompetent boards, he knows the league already. I think he has a lower chance of truly dominating the league than ETH, but I think he also has a much lower chance of failing than ETH. Overall Poch feels the better bet for our club right now. Not because he is an outright better manager, but because our failings as a club won't be as detrimental to him.

 

[golden_blunder]

There's no point in arguing about Ten Hag vs Poch in terms of success as neither have won a major trophy in a top league, for me it's about how they approach football, Ten Hag is a front foot, pressing and possession based manager who looks to be the agressor in every game, Poch plays a middle of the road brand of football that reverts to reactive chicken shit football against good teams.

I feel that Ten Hag employs a clear system whereas Poch relies somewhat on having quality players ready to spring upfront. If you look at the Ajax team it’s clear the system works, it’s got men who couldn’t necessarily cut the mustard in the PL. too me that’s the sign his system works and he’s a coach that knows how to get the best from his players

 

[Fully Fledged]

I can’t believe that people are seriously suggesting Poch. He came second in a one horse race with PSG.

 

[minoo-utd]

What’s so bad about PSG?

He has to win the C.L this year and he knows if he doesn’t they will fire him immediately. Could be very soon he will be without a job and maybe by that time United job is also gone, so!

 

[peridigm]

What's it like compared to previous Ajax managers?

Bosz was only there a year. Not worth noting but he did get them to the EL final when we won it under Jose.
Frank de Boer won the league his first 4 years in charge.

Ajax​

6 December 2010​

11 May 2016​

Matches: 263

Wins: 158

Draw: 58

Loss: 47

GF: 557

GA: 263

GD: +294

Win %: 60.08

 

[JPRouve]

I can’t believe that people are seriously suggesting Poch. He came second in a one horse race with PSG.

It wasn't a one horse race and he got more points than his predecessor. That point is really not fair on Pochettino.

 

[Rightnr]

See that's where it all gets murky. They look like marketing choices to me not footballing ones. I don't see how anyone sane would want Sancho and Ronaldo over a defensive midfielder. It seems more likely that the DMs available were vetoed as bad value for money.

Pretty sure the DM was not 'priority' and that the Ronaldo money ended the small hope of us getting one.

Even the one midfielder we were linked with - Camavinga - was more a marketing choice since he was young but not a DM, per se.

We're first and foremost a company and then a football club. Otherwise, we'd have left Sancho to the end of the window.

 

[Withnail]

What’s so bad about PSG?

That Leonardo is impossible to work by all accounts.

 

[Abraxas]

See that's where it all gets murky. They look like marketing choices to me not footballing ones. I don't see how anyone sane would want Sancho and Ronaldo over a defensive midfielder. It seems more likely that the DMs available were vetoed as bad value for money.

There's no real evidence for this, though.

We know Ole makes more mistakes than top managers so it's fairly reasonable to think he could have made this mistake rather than having to come up with some suspect theory. Also look at it logically rather than conspiratorially:

I don't think the owners have pulled out Sancho and Varane for example, we have chased them for years - there is a very clear association with our scouting and thinking that can be traced and is clearly independent of owners.

Ronaldo clearly wasn't planned but that's not the same as it being forced on Ole. Seemed to be more the case that he's become available and it was put to the club. I think it's more speculative to think Ole turned it down and it was forced rather than him giving it the go ahead. This is a world class player and difference maker.

Just not sure it really holds up to any scrutiny. The way I see it, funds have continually been given. 400 million of them.

 

[Devil may care]

I feel that Ten Hag employs a clear system whereas Poch relies somewhat on having quality players ready to spring upfront. If you look at the Ajax team it’s clear the system works, it’s got men who couldn’t necessarily cut the mustard in the PL. too me that’s the sign his system works and he’s a coach that knows how to get the best from his players

Agreed, the only manager we've had in the last decade who tried to implement a system over individuals is LvG, he just didn't have the players or man management to get it to gel. Poch is like a poor mans Ancelotti, as you say he relies on star players and just uses what he's got as there's no distinct style, it's mostly reactive football. When you look at the top coached sides they can switch out players with barely any drop in team performance as system is King and every player is drilled in it, from the academy to the first team. We've had no identity for way too long.

 

[JPRouve]

Pretty sure the DM was not 'priority' and that the Ronaldo money ended the small hope of us getting one.

Even the one midfielder we were linked with - Camavinga - was more a marketing choice since he was young but not a DM, per se.

We're first and foremost a company and then a football club. Otherwise, we'd have left Sancho to the end of the window.

That's not how football works, keep in mind that there is an other club at the end of the Sancho deal and that the closer you are from the end of the window, the more difficult you make their position when it comes to replace the player and the price goes up. It's not as if their targets were also going to just wait until the end of the window.

 

[RedSky]

What's it like compared to previous Ajax managers?

Qualifying games not counted.

​

Manager​	League Games​	League Win %​	CL Games​	CL Win %​	Europa Games​	Europa Win %​
Erik ten Hag​	122​	77.9%​	28​	53.6%​	10​	60.0%​
Marcel Keizer​	17​	70.6%​	0​	-​	2​	0%​
Peter Bosz​	34​	73.5%​	0​	-​	15​	53.3%​
Frank de Boer​	187​	66.3%​	25​	28.0%​	23​	39.1%​
Martin Jol​	51​	70.6%​	5​	20.0%​	8​	37.5%​

This is also why the comparison with de Boer is utterly stupid. The figures in Europe are massively different. He's made Ajax relevant again.

 

[Rightnr]

That's not how football works, keep in mind that there is an other club at the end of the Sancho deal and that the closer you are from the end of the window, the more difficult you make their position when it comes to replace the player and the price goes up. It's not as if their targets were also going to just wait until the end of the window.

If Dortmund knew they were getting the money, it'd be no problem.

We identified Sancho, we just had to pay up. For the other position, we didn't start looking until the end of the window and we know how long we take on these things.

 

[Rolaholic]

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[bond19821982]

I feel that Ten Hag employs a clear system whereas Poch relies somewhat on having quality players ready to spring upfront. If you look at the Ajax team it’s clear the system works, it’s got men who couldn’t necessarily cut the mustard in the PL. too me that’s the sign his system works and he’s a coach that knows how to get the best from his players

If Ten Hag isn't available till summer sign Poch now . If ETH can come now, it's a no Brainer

 

[JPRouve]

If Dortmund knew they were getting the money, it'd be no problem.

We identified Sancho, we just had to pay up. For the other position, we didn't start looking until the end of the window and we know how long we take on these things.

They wouldn't know though and if you are going to pay it anyway then why would you push that transfer until the end of the window? The only logical reason is that you would make that transfer conditional on getting other targets.

 

[Giggsy13]

Poch is a nearly man

How so, he put Spurs, fecking Spurs, into the title mix with a limited budget compared to his rivals. Net spend of less than £100 million over his tenure, the lack of respect for Poch is astounding.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

You are ignoring the point that we'd be an escape route from a toxic situation for him, lets not try to make it like he'd be ditching a great position because he's got a raging boner for Manchester United. I don't see him as a top calibre manager as he's never won anything, and we present a much comfier, less demanding option than PSG, you come here and get 3 seasons without winning anything as long as you keep the CL money coming in. If you want to look at it as positive then go ahead, Bayern, City, Liverpool and Chelsea's managers aren't going to ditch much better run clubs to come here, hardly a measuring stick.

I'm not ignoring what PSG are or aren't. For a manager bashed due to a lack of success, his team will bring home some silverware this year for sure, so he gets his token medal at the end of the current campaign. We can't ignore that fact either.

The original point still stands - very few, if any top level or even very good managers are coming to this place mid-season. The alternatives, interim or not, in 2021 are probably all inferior (with the exception of unemployed Zidane who clearly doesn't fancy it).