There’s a fair argument to be made that he made do to the best of his ability during 11-14 and didn’t deserve the vitriol coming his way during that period, but after spending quite a bit in his last few years with transfers like Ozil and Sanchez and finished 3rd in a 2 horse race to Leicester and Spurs, you have to question his ability as a coach at that point.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I'd say 06-11 he defiently did, 11-14 can be debated both ways but 14 onwards was a shitshow of underperformance and comically bad recruitment (which very much contributed into sending them spiralling down the league in the following years). His Europa exit in 2018 was a fitting ending that summed up his late period at the club, Simeone with his side down to ten men made a sub to keep the score down and they still found a way to concede an away goal...
They were finishing in top 4 consistently (barring his last 2 seasons), and one could argue that with the players they had, they shouldn't have been doing better. Utd, City and Chelsea have had a better side and in the middle of last decade, you could argue that Poch had built a top side at Spurs as well. Pool were getting back on track.
Of course, one could argue that it was Wenger's job to build the side, but it's much tougher to find these gems once you are a big team
Around the 13-16 era he really should have capitalised and won (or atleast made a big challenge) for the league once possibly twice. Even the teams winning it weren't great and after being backed with the likes of Sanchez and Ozil he really should have capitalised.
Are arsenal fans looking at Vieira though as the next guy?
I mean Liverpool are talking about Gerrard when he maybe good but still a different level to Klopp - Viera is more in line with Arteta and has the ability to even be better.
I kind of wished you guys would have tried for Conte - I think he would have got you back up on a different style compared to the pretty football your team has been playing for way too long.
I don't rate fans' opinions that much. 90% of it is banter anyways
I'm speaking about a comparison between Wenger and Arteta. For all the former's flaws, he knew how to set up a team that could play progressive football going forward at least. Whether he's suited to the modern game or not, I don't know. Mourinho has demonstrated he's past it, in 4 jobs now? Wenger's time with Arsenal had probably run its course but it says little about his coaching ability.
Aye, there's been a long desire from football fandom to see Arsenal abandon the poof nonsense and play a little bit of 'ave it! football
Unless you haven't noticed Arsenal's pretty football went away with Wenger ,don't let occasional display of good football fool you because that's mostly exception not the norm under Arteta similar to Emery.
Arsenal mostly struggle to create chances or play decent football it's a Chore to watch them .
They didnt really have a defence - or atleast a defence good enough to win the league. And by the time they got in Sanchez, I believe Mertesacker was done, their CMs had gone to shite and Giroud had that slump.
Important to note that United despite spending all that amount finished above Arsenal in just 2017-18 in the post-SAF Wenger years
To be honest it helps a lot when you coach talent like Henry, Vieira, Pires, etc.
as long as Arteta meets the target set by the board he will be fine. Fans have zero say on this. Same for every club i would assume. Arteta is doing fine. The squad and player management has been poor over the years and the club invested poorly for the past 10 years. The club did spend alot of money in the squad for the past 10 years, not only last summer. it takes time to be able to challenge for top 4 again. As i said before Arteta needs to improve his man management skill. Seems like he has conflict with players quite often.
You were challenging for the top four a few months before Arteta was hired.
Man Utd was 2nd last season too, and Barcelona was challenging the title last season as well.
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Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea are far ahead. Spurs, Arsenal, Leicester, Everton and Aston Villa all invested heavily to get into top 4. I am happy if we can get 5th and at least get back to europe next season.
All those players would be the first to tell you that Wenger was the one who made them what they are.
Did Arsenal go bankrupt and someone forgot to inform me? The situation isn't very relevant otherwise.
Did Juventus go bankrupt as well? or did Man utd?
They're doing ok. His biggest problem is the AFTV driven meltdown that occurs whenever they lose.
They have won a trophy under Arteta unlike Ole at United, but you’d value Ole’s top four finishes higher in terms of progression over Arteta and his consistent 8th position.
It's a great myth that fans have no power, it was proved otherwise in the ultimate way last April for example. The only problem is when it comes to internal affairs not enough fans will have the balls to do what is required.
If The Emirates becomes half empty and the missing fans make it clear they won't return until Arteta is sacked he'll be gone quicker than you can say trust the process.
I forgot about the FA cup actually. What are your thoughts
United fired Ole and Juventus have fired two consecutive managers after 1 season. What are we talking about here?
A fair amount of people were fine to let Wenger to because he'd stagnated right below the top 4. Emery lost a lot of support once he botched getting 4th in his first season. And now under Arteta, the narrative is "no, you need years to get to 4th." Surely you can see the double standard.
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So you really believe they would not have had good/great careers without Wenger? Other managers would've coached their talent too, just in a different way.
Not trying to say Wenger was not great, I just think their worst case ceiling would be the highest ceiling of the most of the current crop Arsenal have today. Just saying Wenger had way better overall material to work with than Arteta.
Think your a bit off in your time scales mate, can't remember most of the crowd being against Wenger in that era. We were a bit excited, the shackles were off a wee bit in terms of finances which meant we were able to go out & get Ozil & Sanchez, & we stopped the trophy drought with the FA Cup win.
There were frustration that we weren't able to get a deal for a top class striker over the line, losing RVP was a massive blow & I think if the board were able to get him Higuain or Suarez the 2 most notable failures, that could have made a massive difference, & the Wilshere injuries made a difference as well.
Even 2015 2016 time there was optimism. Another FA Cup, Cazorla looking class, Sanchez & Ozil still balling. Again, there always the feeling that the board were holding us back, not signing an outfield player the year Leicester won the league a prime example.
I'd say it was only after that things started really going downhill. The Mustafi / Xhaka / Perez summer was big money that just didn't work out when it should have been the likes of Kante & Mahrez we should have signed. Then the Sanchez Ozil contract situation left a big cloud over us. Pressure started to build & then Wenger & the board were making more poor decisions I think in a bit of a panic, knocking back the money City offered for Sanchez then swapping him for Mkhitaryan a few months later, signing Lacazette & Auba within months of each other, we were dropping out the top 4, losing the balance in the team, Cazorla got that horrific long term injury.
We were sliding but watching Liverpool hire Klopp, City hire Pep, & these were seen as missed opportunities. People say Wenger was treated terribly but the crowd was split, & the majority were still respectful even if they wanted change. Its just that AFTV had grown & obviously their voice was loudest & what all the other fan bases heard.
If this seems to be the general consensus amongst the majority of football supporters, then I don't think football is for me anymore.
I'll just watch the United games since I can't stop watching them, and focus more on watching boxing and rugby.
Never ever is that a penalty, not in a million years.
That's because there's a realisation, across the board, across the fan base, that this wasn't going to be a get a new manager, sign a couple of players quick fix.
You said it yourself, the squad had slid under Wenger. Most thought a change of coach & a couple of new players would change fortunes & get us back into top 4.And it looks like it could initially, but then same old problems came & results detioriated. We had Ozil situation, Auba contract situation looming, structure behind the manager still chopping & changing.
Even initially under Arteta, he got a decent start, won the FA Cup, & I think the thought was a couple of signings, guys like Partey & Willian could have them challenging for top 4.
Then we had that awful start to last season, & I think the realisation hit everyone, from boardroom to fan base, that this seems a more deep rooted problem. That this was beyond just a management issue & that a proper squad reset was needed. So, rather than get rid of yet another manager, they've trusted Arteta & Edu to do the squad reset, to go down the road of signing younger players to try & build a new young team to hit their prime together, either that at the very least would be still have resale value if it didn't work out.
Now, is Arteta lucky the Owner backed him & agreed this with him this time last season & kept him in the job? Too right he is. Is Arteta lucky the Owner decided to invest their own money into the team for the first time this summer to allow him to carry out that strategy? Again, too right he is. Will Arteta be good enough to take this team to another level passed this summer when the last of the old guard like Aubameyang & Lacazette will likely have left? Probably not. But at least he's carried out what was badly needed, even if it might take another manager to take it to the next stage.
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Actually they finished 2nd that year, that joke was on Tottenham, though the point stands because that was a golden opportunity for Wenger to win the title and then maybe leave on a high. That was the last year they were top-4 and the last year they finished above Tottenham.
On the FA Cup? It's not worth as much any more. If a team wants to progress towards bigger and better then consistent top four finishes is more valuable.
Arteta's doing ok. I don't think he'll get Arsenal competing for the league any time soon due to the resources of United, City and Chelsea but top four might be doable. I still think United will end up there due to the quality of their squad compared to Arsenal.
I'm still in shock that Ramsdale has turned out so good. Never rated him before.
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"The fairness of the competition can be altered"
From the guy who two weeks ago was celebrating scoring on an injured goalkeeper like he had won the World Cup. And who two days ago was forcing his off-field injured player to get up and go down on the field instead.
So much anger
Anyway, if you bother to read and listen to the actual content, he's just asking for the PL to give a precise ruling on what gets a game postponed. There should be a clear threshold that applies to everyone. At the moment it looks a bit random.
What says it all is your seemingly unhealthy obsession with a team and manager you regard, unconvincingly as of no serious threat to Man Utd.
Says the Arsenal fan, posting on a Manchester United message board. We’re obsessed, good one
I think we would off been in a better position if we had gone for arteta he'd already won a trophy with arsenal I think he's doing okay
Wow JP
Stop thinking youre not good at it.
There's a serious bang of "Don't touch the hair" off him.
Is Arteta saying that his feelings take priority over the evolving handling of a global pandemic?
I couldnt care less what he may feel about it. It gets postponed if it gets postponed.
Aubameyang touched the hair
Hope they get 7th this year and celebrate it as progress.
As deflection goes…not bad…would have been better without the emoji…Says the Arsenal fan, posting on a Manchester United message board. We’re obsessed, good one
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No, he’s clearly not saying that but pointing out the inconsistency in treatment which disadvantaged his team