Man arrested for murder after running over and killing a guy who was stabbing a woman | Faces no charges
- Thread starter Jippy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I thought you were a man of reason. Surely you understand that's not the job of the police. Finding out the facts comes in court with proper representation, not the court of public opinion. Under this logic the police would have been shaking Kyle Rittenhouses hand based on what they thought at the time.
Being slightly cynical; I doubt this murder beef is going to be a negative for this guy. He’ll get acquitted and he’ll be better for it. Im absolutely certain he’s under no curfew et al and he has unanimous support of the public.
It’s not obviously. I quoted the example of South Africa earlier in the thread. SUVs are specifically purchased and used to ram carjackers. (And you can get courses on how to ram them better/not damage your new X5 doing it)
And our laws are simply shit. They are fuzzy and without proper codification leading to an arbitrary set of “tests” to determine if an offence was committed. This combined with chronic underfunding of the courts, legal aid, and a screwed up appeals process makes us really no better than you lot. Money talks here.
He won’t be charged as it will fail the public interest test. Just posturing.
Oh, for sure.. this is absolutely reasonable and the right course of action. If I see some knife wielding weirdo on a school run, threatening people, whilst already, to my knowledge, have seriously hurt one other person; I’m ramming that motherfecker straight into a wall.
It’s kind of mad that people are saying that they should have maybe shouted at him or thrown stuff at him… People experiencing this state are notoriously hard to put down..
Most likely this. The police did their job in rightly arresting somebody who killed another person, and the legal system and courts will now do their job and probably drop the charges or he'll be acquitted. For obvious reasons too embarrassing to have to explain, the police can't be deciding at the scene if someone is innocent before they've been tried.
Yes, Zarlak, I know what their job is. I also hope they shake his hand as they release him, because the piece of shit that stabbed his wife to death got what he deserved.
If you’re saying that using the car wasn’t “too much”, then I agree completely.
Agreed on all fronts.
Bad phrasing on my part but yes.
Completely and obviously proportionate common tactic used around the world against armed assailants.They really teach classes on that in RSA?Bad phrasing on my part but yes.
Yea it’s called an anti-hijacking course. Actually pretty dangerous out these days in the cities/highways (especially if you’re white) - armed (with knives if lucky) carjackings are a perhaps a bi yearly occurrence? Possibly less as google says there are only 200k a year total, but feels like that. You definitely can’t go for a walk out or even to the store down the road. You leave your locked compound in the vehicle and return in it.
So you learn: (depending on how much you pay)
- What kind of car to buy (basically a large suv or pickup). Suitable bull bars to buy
- How to look for carjackers when out especially when picking up or dropping off children
- How to escape. J turns, Y turns etc. Evasive driving
- When to go on offence
- If it’s wise to carry a weapon in the car and/or attempt to use it
- How to negotiate/act if they gain access
If you tell the police you hit a carjacker they’ll generally ask if the car got damaged.
Damn! That’s crazy man.
I had a couple people attempt to carjack me several years ago, but I did have a weapon in the car and drawing on them scared them off. They got arrested later that night after I called the police and they attempted to do it again. That said, that’s the only time anything like that has ever happened to me, or anyone I know. I couldn’t imagine it being such a regular thing that there’s driving classes on how to avoid it!
This caused me to Google and holy crap…
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/south-africa-johannesburg-carjacking
A helicopter force to fight carjackings
Welcome to South Africa! Unless you’re a PMC its dangerous to draw on carjackers there; it’s different, they are perfectly willing to escalate. They’ll kill you without blinking and get away with it. Rape is rampant too. You’d generally only draw in a kidnap situation. That said, if you fancy a change of scenery you can make good money in private security down there.
Totally surreal how it’s changed. (I’m quite a history nut on SA 19th century stuff). From a pretty democratic state where whites blacks and Jews had rights and coexisted in relative peace to…. This Chaos.
Nowadays the suburbs are literally fortified. And under 5 miles away you have a situation not unlike the worst favela. And the business districts which sandwich them are easy enough to die in.
Sad situation for both the stabbing victims and the driver. He is going to have to live with it the rest of his life, though for me he shouldn't be charged with anything, as it's clearly a case of defense. Surely with a women actually being stabbed and dying in front of you, anything, including lethal force would be considered reasonable force in that situation in order to try and protect them.
it may not have been clear the woman was dead, and he ran over her as well. This is the only potential problem I see. I’m curious to know what UK law says about endangering the victim to subdue the attacker.
My first thought was give him a medal, but I suppose I need to know more before I really decide.
He can’t possibly face jail time for this, that would be a morally bankrupt decision.
The guy tried to stop a lunatic from killing a woman in front of him. He tried to do something rather than just slink off or record it on his phone like most idiots do these days. If we are going to punish people for trying to stop murder in front of their eyes then, then we as a society need to reconsider our stance on justice.
Maybe the woman had just murdered all his children. The man in the car certainly didn't know. Horrific things happen for horrific reasons sometimes.
Put him in jail and throw away the key. Nosy bugger.
Put him in jail and throw away the key. Nosy bugger.
This is being overegged. People have just quite reasonably queried the options available to the driver, rather than immediately leaping to using lethal force. The guy's real world options were clearly very limited as @Fortitude described well, unless he's Bruce Lee, so not sure what alternatives he realistically had if he wanted to intervene without getting stabbed.
If this person has only been arrested, I would hazard a bet that he won’t get charged.
Police have no choice but to arrest him but I seriously doubt CPS will see this as anything but drastic action to try and stop and heinous crime.
Other people have taken drastic action but I’m fairly certain the law allows you to take what might be deemed as unreasonable actions if the situation in which they are used is drastic.
A homeowner has been arrested for murder having killed an intruder. End result??? A sensible non-murder case
Police have no choice but to arrest him but I seriously doubt CPS will see this as anything but drastic action to try and stop and heinous crime.
Other people have taken drastic action but I’m fairly certain the law allows you to take what might be deemed as unreasonable actions if the situation in which they are used is drastic.
A homeowner has been arrested for murder having killed an intruder. End result??? A sensible non-murder case
Interesting logic. If you see a guy beating the crap out of a woman do you leave him to it on the basis that maybe she poisoned his dog and deserves a hiding?
Insulting another member
Sympathising with a wife beater and murderer
you absolute ****. He was no human, he was a dog and deserved to be put down. Maybe I am mental, but the world will be a better place without him.
At the point he chose to wait for his ex partner outside the school her children go to, then murder her in public viewing? nah he lost all rights there and then.
Sure though, lock him up for 60 years, give him cuddles and tell him it'll all be OK.
Christ.
There are many cases in the US (the last one in that church) where some person killed a shooter and was not even trialed. The entire gun lobby propaganda there is based into ‘the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun’.
Probably won't have to buy his own pints at the pub
Agree - not sure why the shaking hands thing is so controversial.
If the driver was a policeman, they’d be getting awards, congratulations from Parliament, the whole shabang…and most definitely a handshake for an act of bravery and trying to deal with a horrible situation in the best way possible.
Why is that?
Because they’re making a split decision in an extremely difficult circumstance to save a another human’s life.
But they didn't, they took one.
No I mean why would it be different for a police officer?
I know, but I doubt that was their intention. The driver had or attempted to save a life primarily, not kill the stabber. The fact that the stabber died is a consequence of him trying to save the woman’s life.
It's weird people keep repeatedly using made up scenarios in their head to support his actions though. The guy appears to have done his best to intervene to try and save her and I'm sure he won't be charged, not sure why people embellish that with imagined scenarios.
That’s what I’m struggling with
I take your point, but it’s fairly common (and rightly so) for police to be given recognition for acting instinctively and doing as much as possible to save a life or what have you. If the driver was a policeman, that outcome isn’t that inconceivable.
Of course, but legally it has to be viewed without focusing purely on that moral standing which some people aren't seeming to understand. Nobody in this thread is sympathising with the stabber, but some people can't grasp that (not you).
I just don’t see the relevance to the discussion here to be honest and feels like a dig at the police for no reason.
If an off duty officer killed someone they’d still be arrested and the matter investigated and put before the CPS.
This guy might still be exonerated and given a pat on the back. Would be total negligence to suggest it shouldn’t even be investigated properly when two people are dead.
Yeah quite possibly, but the policeman would also face a probe into his actions just to make sure it was all appropriate etc...which is surely what's happening with this driver guy. That surely should happen and hopefully it can be done quick so this guy doesn't have the murder charge having over him for long.
Legally, it's manslaughter and I suspect any sentence he'd get would be very much at the lower end of the spectrum in the circumstances.
It's a horrific case. He intervened, ostensibly to try and save her life and on the facts (or as it's been reported, however correct that is) whilst what he did may sound extreme, in the moment, it probably wasn't. Had he tried to intervene physically (as others seem o have considered), he'd have probably been seriously injured or killed.
I suppose the issue here is the Police trying to avoid a scenario where vigilante justice appears to be rewarded or excused because some won't understand the nuances which probably take this outside that.
It's a horrific case. He intervened, ostensibly to try and save her life and on the facts (or as it's been reported, however correct that is) whilst what he did may sound extreme, in the moment, it probably wasn't. Had he tried to intervene physically (as others seem o have considered), he'd have probably been seriously injured or killed.
I suppose the issue here is the Police trying to avoid a scenario where vigilante justice appears to be rewarded or excused because some won't understand the nuances which probably take this outside that.