The issue is that some people think only the PL matters. The fact that he was fairly successful in The Bundesliga is not considered at all. For sure he is a much better manager than Moyes. But Soton is a much smaller club than West Ham. I also think he would have been the better option for Spurs than Nuno.
Ralph Hasenhüttl
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
There were still doubts over his abilities in the Bundesliga. Yes he did set the still standing point record for Leipzig (even Nagelsmann did not beat it), but there was still the question if he can take the next step with Leipzig and looking at his second season and his CL performances he failed in that regard. He had one great season under him, but playing as an actual CL level club only happened under Nagelsmann.
I guess this is part of why top teams did not sign him yet.
I know people don't fancy him enough but he has now beaten all top 6 and pretty much doing great with a sub par Southampton squad.
How's a manager like Poch rated above this guy ? This guy has done a lot better than Poch at Southampton.
Are we still saying he isn't good enough?
How's a manager like Poch rated above this guy ? This guy has done a lot better than Poch at Southampton.
Are we still saying he isn't good enough?
Poch got 8th with Southampton and their highest PL total since the 90s.
The squad he had was very talented though. A far cry from the shite Hassenhutl is working with.
Well that’s debatable. The fact remains they did better under Poch than they have ever done under Hasselhoff.
It feels like they were a lot more ambitious in the market in that period. Once they started selling everyone to Liverpool the jig was up
Really? Who was very talented compare to now?
Final Position yes, but this Southampton isn't as talented as that team and these guys regularly beats the top teams. The current team is relentless and very frustrating to play against.
Didn't they spend more under Poch than now ?
Shaw, Chambers, Fonte, Lallana, Clyne, Schneiderlin all players they sold for big money. JWP was there too
Chambers
Lovren
Fonte
Shaw
Schneiderlin
Wanyama
W Prowse
Lallana
Rodriguez
Lambert
Is surely a better team than what they have now? It’s a shame that signings like Tadic, Mane, Alderweireld and Van Dijk were wasted on Koeman after Poch had left. Would have been interesting to see where they could’ve gone.
Only if you use hindsight. At the time they were as young/unproven as most of their current squad. Southampton have always had a great ability to produce talents from their academy. I’m sure there are some future ‘stars’ there now.
Selling for big money does not mean more talented.
JWP is there too now so was he more talented then than he is now? Out of all those players, they had their best football at Southampton.. I wonder why.
Poch arrived at Soton at a time when the concept of applying a coordinated press was a new concept in the league and he took advantage of that for several years in the EPL. But his star started to wane when the more accomplished head coaches from the Bundesliga, La liga etc arrived and Poch went from high press to mid block pressing to adapt.
The likes of Hassenhuttl and Potter are two coaches who implement a imposing game in the EPL today, which is more impressive due to the higher level of the league and the inferior tools they have at their disposal.
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Hmm not too sure about that, a good 5 of them in the team last night are 27+ and he brought Shane Long and Walcott off the bench.
Broja is probably the only one anyone would be looking at and he's not even their player.
It's a bit of a moot point anyway, I think they're probably of similar abilities with regards to coaching. They operated under different conditions and times in the prem.
I agree with this. Pochettino took great advantage of being the first to play more «modern». I also remember watching Spurs live at the beginning of his tenure at Spurs and being fascinated by the movement of his fullbacks.
I have gone from being a big fan of Pochettino to being more sceptical. But I’m not as negative as you and a few others. I think he did well to develop quite a few players. From poor players to good players. I also think quite a few players looked better than that was under his leadership.
He did give a few poor players to many chances, but he also really wanted to make significant changes to that Spurs-squad (selling Eriksen and Rose among others). In retrospect, I think he was right.
The way he handled the 9-0 defeat vs us last season was really bad. Jankewitz got sent off in the 2nd minute, he didn't change the shape properly to help the defence and didn't make a sub until the 70th minute 5-0 down? He managed the 9-0 defeat vs Leicester in a similar fashion too, no changes after red card, waited until 5-0 down before making a sub. Obviously he's good enough at the level he's at but those two car crashes have tainted my opinion of him.
I'm just giving my honest opinion. He's a coach that imo was very fortunate to come into the EPL at a time when the league was no where near as strong as it is now, when it comes to closing off space. And he was brought to Soton by Les Reed who had spotted Poch whilst keeping a watch on young Coutinho who was on loan to Espanyol. Reed wanted to bring in a coach to replace Nigel Adkins and saw Poch and his high energy style as the natural evolution from the football played under Adkins. But his football for me is too geared up for off the ball pressing and his teams have never shown the ability in the build up phase consistently at a high level in comparison to Enrique or ten Hag, who are two coaches who I would describe as being considerably superior than Poch at implementing a possession game style that has a real purpose and is easily identifiable. But that doesn't mean both coaches would be a success at United because I know good coaches can fail in the process of implementing their ways if the results aren't there.
And he did a decent job at Spurs but he was also culpable at the end imo, because when he arrived at Spurs, they had a DoF model with Franco Baldini. And Poch and Levy abandoned that model to give Poch total control as the Manager. And he finally lost his job because juggling the training ground duties with recruitment was very difficult at a time when the level of coaching in the league was on the rise with the arrival of several high caliber coaches. Klopp in contrast went to Liverpool as the Manager but realised his role as the head coach and embraced their recruitment department at a time when that department was getting widely ridiculed according to reports. Now Spurs have gone back to the DoF model again.
I believe Hasenhüttl is mulling over retiring after his Southampton contract expires anyway, so the question of whether he's good enough for somewhere else could well be müt.
To be fair, Paul Mitchell essentially accompanied Poch to Spurs as DoF (arriving a few months later) and recruitment was very good during the 18 months or so when they worked in tandem. Then Mitchell fell out with Levy and left the club. I don't think Poch really ended up in that position without a DoF to work with by choice, and even then it was more like him and Levy sharing control, which was always going to be a nightmare.
I think the rest of your spot is dead accurate, especially regarding Poch not showing the ability to coach teams in possession and the build up phase in particular.
First i've heard about the retirement rumors. Quick search and hopefully he renews or gets a bigger gig to keep him motivated. He's "only" 54.
Jeezus, you don't remember how good was Poch at Soton right? As direct comparison as it can be. Better stay quiet then, at least check wikipedia next time.
Mitchell accompanied Poch to Spurs as the head of recruitment working under Pochettino. Pochettino was the DoF/manager from what I've read. And Poch's insistence on bringing in his own recruitment staff put paid to Baldini's tenure at the club.
And I'll support Pochettino if he ends up at United and give him time. But as far as coaching offensive transitions are concerned, he's never shown the ability to implement a imposing possession based game style in comparison to ten hag or Luis Enrique imo. And just a few months back there was reports about the PSG players complaining about the limitations in Poch's coaching, when it comes to implementing on the ball work, which makes sense to me.
In all fairness, that's not a prerequisite of the job here. We've never played like that and been incredibly successful regardless. The one period we did attempt to play like that, the entire fan base was bored to tears.
Did not Baldini take quite much «flak» for how they spent the Bale-money?
I’m also not sure how much influence Pochettino really had. He wanted to sell/get rid of several players (according to rumours, Rose and Eriksen among them) towards the end, but Levy refused.
Baldini did take quite a bit of flak after wasting the Bale money. But why not replace him with someone else in the role rather than succumb to Poch who reportedly (The Guardian) was pushing to bring his own recruitment staff. I think the blame mainly is on Levy but it also worries me that Poch was pushing for the club to bring people to work under him. I think the DoF model they've gone back to currently is the way to go.
I'm not sure what exactly happened with Eriksen, Rose etc. But it seems he'd lost the dressing room at the end and it was being reported his departure from the club was a matter of 'when'.
Levy is probably among the worst people to work under from what I've read. So that obviously can't be easy for anyone.
Ten hag and Enrique tbf are very different to LVG in their approach to the game. LVG does follow the positional play principles but his approach is very cautious compared to the turbo charged versions of the same principles we see in the modern game. Which focus on exerting zonal positional control in a vertical axis with coordinated high pressure, which LVG at the time wasn't well known for.
My #1 choice is Enrique but whoever gets the job, I'm fully behind them.
Stay quiet for what ? Stating Ralf is doing better than Poch ? Feck No !
He was there only for 1.5 seasons (60 games) with 1.45 points per game.
RH has been averaging at 1.33 points over 141 games. Pretty much the same but more games.
Check the average goals scored and goals conceded too and you will see if there was any difference.
May be, you can try wiki now.
It's funny you mentioned Potter. RH's Southampton has finished higher than Potter's Brighton and has a better record in EPL with Southampton.
Yet, RH is just another hipster while Potter is considered as the next big thing.
Sometimes, we just don't see the obvious !
I thought I read somewhere this week that he would retire after Southampton
I would not swap out Ralf for Ralph.
He was thinking about that loudly in an interview. Didn't exactly say he's stop for sure after Southampton, but that he doesn't want to be managing at 70+ like Hodgson and wants to do something else after being a manager.
RH has done this under a different structure at the club too.
Poch was lucky he had Cortese running the show, RH hasn't had that benefit.
Are people seriously comparing the current Soton side with Poch's, saying they are comparable. I swear Poch's fanboys are something else.
Soton is a relegation candidate because of severe underinvestment in the squad for a good couple of years now, and despite that Ralf still manages to have them finish around midtable. Not only that, his side goes toe to toe against the big boys and takes points of them routinely.
Soton is a relegation candidate because of severe underinvestment in the squad for a good couple of years now, and despite that Ralf still manages to have them finish around midtable. Not only that, his side goes toe to toe against the big boys and takes points of them routinely.
I woulnd't look too much into this. It was only 1 game. Naglessman was destroyed at OT 5-0 with 11 players in the Champions League, the man seems to be doing fine right now.
I like this guy. I like his style of play and I really like that he is doing all this whilst his best players are being sold. Worth a mention in United manager race.
Yes, I would rather look at the way his team bounced back twice after super heavy defeats.
Losses like that are usually death sentences.
But, there is no point in comparing Hasenhüttl and Poch. Both are great managers. Both would be good appointments for many clubs in the PL.
Did they say 24m net spend over the last 7 years?
He's doing an incredible job.
He's doing an incredible job.
I have a huge respect for clubs like Southampton; clubs that are run really well and within their means. They keep finding good managers and good players despite knowing their best players will always get poached by the big clubs. They play good football and always try to take the game to the opposition regardless of how outmatched they are. They're the total opposite to a shambles of a club like United
Proper game raisers, entertaining as hell and give everything a proper go. I'd like to see him get a shot at the big club before he retires.
Guess you aren’t watching Bayern right now
